Wh40k 10th Edition Munitorum Field Manual (Points)

[Trokair]

2 minutes ago, Xenith said:

 

Are we looking at the same datasheets?  A lot of stuff I'm looking at (Eldar, GC, nids, Thousand Sons) have dropped significantly, particularly the characters - Ahriman on disc has dropped 70pts from 180 to 110 (and still isn't worth it), fire dragons are down to 17ppm from 24, GSC characters are around the 50-60pt mark. 

 

It seems they want Eldar to be a horde army?!

 

Ditto

 

I run up three of my default lits for Eldar, TS and LoV and they have 300 to 400 points spare.

My marines on the other hand are about the same, so depends on army I guess.

[Doghouse]

List building has always been one of the main aspects of the game since the beginning. Learning what to take and what not to take and what to sacrifice to do so can be an important aspect of the game as the battle itself.

 

It feels stripped of nuance and why not just switch the game to power levels? 

 

I might be over thinking this or getting something wrong or missed something in which case I apologise in advance but if a unit has an optimum loadout which is the same price as it's weakest loadout why under this system would you use anything but that maxed out loadout which then leads to why have weapon options at all?

 

 

[Redcomet]

2 minutes ago, Doghouse said:

List building has always been one of the main aspects of the game since the beginning. Learning what to take and what not to take and what to sacrifice to do so can be an important aspect of the game as the battle itself.

 

It feels stripped of nuance and why not just switch the game to power levels? 

 

I might be over thinking this or getting something wrong or missed something in which case I apologise in advance but if a unit has an optimum loadout which is the same price as it's weakest loadout why under this system would you use anything but that maxed out loadout which then leads to why have weapon options at all?

 

 

In a competitive environment you won’t. 

[The4thHorseman]

Who wrote this steaming pile? Matt Ward? Lol. Seriously, can't wait for 11th ed now.

[ZeroWolf]

So the nid half of Leviathan is roughly 800 pts then (a very rough calculation I could do with children in my ears)

[Scribe]

3 minutes ago, Doghouse said:

It feels stripped of nuance and why not just switch the game to power levels? 

 

In all but name, it is. They just called it points in an effort to mitigate the backlash.

 

Its really frustrating being a 40K fan, when they do all they can to annoy me with their game design. :D

[GenerationTerrorist]

I am so disappointed with the points being fixed to unit sizes. Utterly simplistic and robs people of creativity and fluff-related numbers.

[Brother Christopher]

I don't know what to think of this. I mean, I said this many times before: I'm all for simplifying and streamlining things. However, seeing the format of the point costs makes me feel that GW addresses the wrong things with these sweeping changes.

[Montford]

The basic Battle Sister's points remained the same and that's giving me something of a gauge to look at the rest of the Army. The Daemonfuge has become a great bargain points-wise IMO. The Sororitas vehicles really didn't change much points-wise. The Characters however got points drops across the board from what they were in 9th. Inquisition as well.

 

Poor Karamazov though, I don't know why but GW always points him pretty high

[Boyadventurer]

This is extra wild for Deathwatch. The kill team costs seem super inflated. 5 Vets are 100 points, but a 5 man Proteus Kill Team (which is required 5 vets as well) is 165. The Kill team actually has *less* wargear options than the regular vets squad too for some reason. A the most expensive Proteus Kill team you can build (5 vets, 4 termies, 1 biker) would cost 294 based on its components, but the cost for a 10 man Proteus (however you want to build it), is 330.

I get it if the Kill Teams retained each of the individual units special rules, but it doesn't look that way (ie: a Hellblaster in a Fortis squad can't shoot on death). The SIA strats can work across 2 KTs instead of 1 reg unit, that's the only benefit I can see but it's worth *that* much of a point increase?!



 

[Maritn]

Well, the difference to Power Level is that these points are more granular. With PL you could basically just change in increments of 20 points, so calling this PL is exaggerating.

[Lexington]

Welp, there goes that last, lingering scrap of interest in 10th I had.

[Rain]

No need for alarm. Everyone knows that if you multiply PL’s by 10, they are now points, which are very different 

 

This is so dumb. Saving points by not taking maxed out units all the time adds diversity to the game. Why even include the “bad” (formerly lower cost) options in the boxes anymore? It just becomes a newbie trap. Doing it this way is *worse* for new players (and everyone else) not better. 

[danodan123]

The sky is falling! 

[Nagashsnee]

I dont think i have ever been more disappointed reading a GW document, in any edition, ever. There is literally not a single positive thing i can think of. 

 

Even if you were a fan of this, you cant build on it cause chances are the backlash will enforce changes in 1-6 months. 

[Maritn]

And regarding free equipment: is the difference between e.g. a flamer and a meltagun really that big? Now that the flamer ignores cover and vehicles toughness values went up, so melta weapons became worse vs vehicles? With all the consolidation of wargear (e.g. power and combi weapons), and the buffing of lower strength weapons and upping the toughness of vehicles, maybe they developed things in a good direction? I'm no tournament player, so I'm maybe to bad, and I haven't looked at all data sheets, but to me it looks like you have more room to play around with your squads now. You're not punished for using the "utility" equipment and special weapons for your squads. And at least to me it looks like you have to think about the role of your unit and give it the appropriate options, not like it's meltaguns or whatever for everyone all the time.

 

I seem to be in the clear minority here, but I'm still incredibly happy about 10th and am far more excited to play 40k than I have been during most of 9th...

[No Foes Remain]

GW have lost me here, they've just changed Power Levels to points and messed about with the numbers.

 

Also:

 

Then why the hell did they make combi-weapons just one stat-line across the board? Morons....

[phandaal]

22 minutes ago, Doghouse said:

It feels stripped of nuance and why not just switch the game to power levels? 

 

They did switch the game to power levels. This is GW running out of time and making an excuse for the easier option.

 

11 minutes ago, Maritn said:

Well, the difference to Power Level is that these points are more granular. With PL you could basically just change in increments of 20 points, so calling this PL is exaggerating.

 

No, dude. It is literally Power Level. There is no difference.

[Xenith]

19 hours ago, The4thHorseman said:

Who wrote this steaming pile? Matt Ward? Lol. Seriously, can't wait for 11th ed now.

 

Mat Ward at least wrote flavourful and strong rules for everything he did (people hated his fluff though).

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Xenith

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

The Grand Endumbening continues.

 

At this rate, 11th Edition will replace all dice rolls with coin flips.

[Scribe]

6 minutes ago, Maritn said:

And at least to me it looks like you have to think about the role of your unit and give it the appropriate options, not like it's meltaguns or whatever for everyone all the time.

 

I mean, unless I'm just extremely out of touch (very possible!) why would I ever take a Heavy Stubber, over a Mining Laser or a Chain Sword over a Power Weapon for Neophyte Hybrids?

[AenarIT]

I know I will keep playing 9th ed until this gets reversed (if ever).

 

Looking at points and no detachments anymore, it seems like they couldn’t manage to make a decent app and went for the easy solution.

Shame.

[Captain Idaho]

4 minutes ago, Lord Nord said:

The Grand Endumbening continues.

 

At this rate, 11th Edition will replace all dice rolls with coin flips.

 

And Eldar can choose which side it lands on!

[tinpact]

Not as much change as I expected, really. The points values are all multiples of 5, which makes you wonder why they bothered with the fixed unit sizes at all.

 

There don't seem to be horde discounts like in AoS, either, which is the one thing I'd expect if they were trying to push larger armies (and there aren't many units that can take more than 10 anymore anyway).

[Doctor Perils]

Well, I actually really like this - I can now build the models I like the way I like and not have to have a headache of figuring out the change in unit costs every 6 months if it has weapon x, and not y... and can I fit z in? No, oh well then I have to add another model to this other unit over there instead, oh wait it no longer fits in its rhino...

 

So yeah, Power Levels with actual updates, win-win imo.

 

Fixed unit sizes is a bit silly considering the points costs still comes in increments of ppm though - if they wanted to make it "easier" they could have had cost for 1, cost for 5, cost for 10, for those people who don't have a calculator on their phones...

Edited June 16, 2023 by Doctor Perils