Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis

[Pacific81]

To be fair the missile was a bit like that in previous editions, went straight through void shields and could one-shot titans. Although there was a chance it could sail in-between legs (which always seemed to happen in battle reports!)

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

42 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

So apparently the warp missile is a bit bonkers and kinda removes larger titans as a viability.

 

The warp rule allegedly gives you as many attacks as the target has wounds and pierces void shields. It then hits on a 2+, is -3 to saves and...engine killer 3. So a warmaster with 7 wounds is getting hit 6 times, failing 3 saves and suffering 9 wounds. 

 

Kinda unfortunate if true.

 

No The X number is the number of ADDITIONAL wounds, so it would be 12 wounds. And those "saves" you're talking about - are they with us in this room right now? You hit 6 times, you score 24 wounds.

 

 

[Interrogator Stobz]

What?

Does that sound crazy broken?

 

Edit: apologies for being away from the net for a while, enough to miss most rules discussion. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Interrogator Stobz

[SkimaskMohawk]

18 minutes ago, Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla said:

 

No The X number is the number of ADDITIONAL wounds, so it would be 12 wounds. And those "saves" you're talking about - are they with us in this room right now? You hit 6 times, you score 24 wounds.

 

 

 

Oh so it flat ignores armour too lol. And every defensive stat.

 

Well, it sounds like multiple warhounds are the biggest thing worth taking.

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

Or just ban it in your casual games.

[Valkyrion]

Limited (1) means one shot and done though right? So a 1/6 chance of missing straight off, and either way the expensive war engine is down to two weapons for the entire game instead of three. 

 

As my coffee supplier is at pains to tell me; fair trade. 

[Mandragola]

Warp missiles do seem totally mad. They’re in urgent need of a FAQ. 
 

Also in need of FAQ is that engine killer (as you can see) doesn’t work on everything. So a bellicosa one-shots a reaver but only does a wound to a Kratos or Malcador. 
 

I got hold of a pair of warhounds and built one this evening. You’ve probably seen loads of these before. The guns go together really nicely, as you’d expect, though I don’t know if I like the weird attachment thing for the missile launcher. 
 

 

These seem like exact copies of the resin versions. 

 

[Valkyrion]

4 minutes ago, Mandragola said:

Warp missiles do seem totally mad. They’re in urgent need of a FAQ. 
 

Also in need of FAQ is that engine killer (as you can see) doesn’t work on everything. So a bellicosa one-shots a reaver but only does a wound to a Kratos or Malcador. 
 

 

I said this earlier, and was asked to hunt mice with pikes. 

 

[Matrindur]

26 minutes ago, Valkyrion said:

Limited (1) means one shot and done though right? So a 1/6 chance of missing straight off, and either way the expensive war engine is down to two weapons for the entire game instead of three. 

 

As my coffee supplier is at pains to tell me; fair trade. 

 

A 5/6 chance to delete any titan including the warmaster which is nearly double your points and still being able to shoot at everthing else with two weapons after sounds pretty good to me. Also its not just a 5/6 chance as you shoot more than once. Against a Warmaster with 7 wounds you roll 7 dice and two have to hit to kill it. Thats a 0.0021% chance to not kill it. 

 

BUT as far as I can see Void Shields work against it? Engine Killer only makes it so no saves can be taken against the missile but void shields aren't saves but another thing you assign hits to instead of the titan itself until they go down. So you would first need to take down the 12 void shields with other units before you get your 99.9979% chance to kill the warmaster. Which is still way too good value

 

Against smaller titans with less wounds you would roll less dice so less chance but would still be >99% to one hit kill

Warhound and Dire Wolf would be 99.537%

Reaver and Warbringer would be 99.9228%

Warlord would be 99.9871%

Edited November 24, 2023 by Matrindur

[Interrogator Stobz]

Your maths is right, but the pic above appears to show Warp bypassing Voids too

Reavers one shotting everything does seem a tad broken.

[Matrindur]

18 minutes ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

Your maths is right, but the pic above appears to show Warp bypassing Voids too

Correct, missed that since I only looked at engine killer for that. Well then there is absolutely no reason not to take one as long as the opponent has a titan since even if its just a Warhound you delete 330Pts and with 75" you can do that from the other side of the table. And afterwards you still have your two arm weapons to get use out of the other 85pts of your Reaver you haven't traded yet.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Matrindur

[Interrogator Stobz]

Never take only one...

[Marshal Rohr]

Isn’t the Warp Missile a single shot weapon?

 

Edit: Yeah, it’s limited to 1. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Marshal Rohr

[Captain Idaho]

Reading this (shared above):

 

 

It says you roll once for Titans for number of attacks, then the dice ROLL is equal to the remaining wounds.

 

Which means rules as written the weapon does nothing against 7+ wounds and only hits against targets on a roll equal to how many wounds left, so 3 wounds left it only hits on a 3+, 4 wounds it hits on a 4+...

 

This is rules as written and likely a mistake. But it makes it far less offensive.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[Interrogator Stobz]

A few of us don't read it like that mate.

We're gonna need a day one FAQ to clear it up.

[Marshal Rohr]

Warp weaponry is insanely powerful, it’s supposed to delete stuff. 
 

 

What is the problem here? That it’s really strong? 
 

edit: It’s a Race against the clock weapon, an enemy titan with engine killer weaponry and missiles will take down a reaver when you sequence your activations and fires. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Marshal Rohr

[SkimaskMohawk]

2 hours ago, Valkyrion said:

Limited (1) means one shot and done though right? So a 1/6 chance of missing straight off, and either way the expensive war engine is down to two weapons for the entire game instead of three. 

 

As my coffee supplier is at pains to tell me; fair trade. 

 

Were, not quite right. Warp gives you 1 attack per model/titans wound. So a warmaster gives you 7 attacks to roll a 2+ on that convert to 4 wounds each, needing only 2 of the 7 to hit to kill the warmaster. The chances of missing 6/7 shots are vanishingly small.

 

The expensive 415 model one shotting the 750 point model with ease and reliability doesn't need to do much else. You've already made your points back.

 

@Marshal Rohr that it's so disproportionately strong for its point cost. In a straight titan-off you just tank the engine killer weapons on the shields and then the missiles on the armour, as we've been told thats how sequencing works. You'd need some insane luck to one-round the reaver with equivalent points of titan.

Edited November 24, 2023 by SkimaskMohawk

[Marshal Rohr]

When do the shields regenerate? 

[Black Cohort]

I think the issue comes from the fact that Titans don't appear to pay for their weapons, and there is no way to balance that many weapons to both feel different and be worth the same price.

[Noserenda]

1 hour ago, Marshal Rohr said:

When do the shields regenerate? 

Start/end of the turn, i forget which but its functionally identical.

Have to agree the warp missiles feel a bit off, the only thing thats going to stop the reaver firing the thing is... another warp missile... If engine killer bizarrely does not work on smaller vehicles it feels like that needs an faq too, those are exactly the kind of weapons and big tank should worry about after all.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Woohoo! Regardless of Warp being the new Eldar, pre orders sales go live tomorrow for us Antipodians.

Bring on the pain.

[Mandragola]

Warp missiles need to lose engine killer. They should be scary but not automatically kill any target. Till then they shouldn’t be used. 
 

And engine killer just needs to work on everything, perhaps apart from buildings. I think they just forgot that normal vehicles sometimes have 2 wounds. 
 

Honestly the rules are quite solid in most cases. These are some of the rare problems. It’s nothing like 30k (or to be honest Titanicus) where significant parts of the core rules are confusing or don’t work without FAQ. 

[Matrindur]

3 hours ago, Mandragola said:

Warp missiles need to lose engine killer. They should be scary but not automatically kill any target. Till then they shouldn’t be used. 

Yes, it would still be a good weapon just not insanely good. Warp already lets you bypass any saves and shields and you roll as many dice as the target titan has wounds left which all hit on a 2+. This means you still have a 28%/34%/40%/48%/58%/70%/83% chance to kill the titan if he has 7/6/5/4/3/2/1 wounds left.

 

3 hours ago, Mandragola said:

And engine killer just needs to work on everything, perhaps apart from buildings. I think they just forgot that normal vehicles sometimes have 2 wounds. 

It has to be that, there is no way a weapon that can one-hit a Baneblade can't do the same for a Malcador. 

 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Matrindur

[Nagashsnee]

18 hours ago, BolterZorro said:

Not necessarily. You have to take into account all the variables in the equation. Like the pike is an example. But take into account that the chainsword is on a super big guy which is slow compared to the (relative) agile tank which is on the ground etc... The game disigner made a choice, that's it. 

 

I 100% agree that it should not be able to reach, but that is a issue with the units it should be able to target, NOT the weapon effectives. 

 

The machine killer rules is on allot of weapons, most of them are ranged. If it does 3 wounds to a baneblade but cannot kill a malcador then the game designer made the wrong choice. 

As you see when a rpg hits a mouse the mouse evaporates.  If I am quick enough and a good enough shot to hit the mouse is a different matter entirely.  Saying i cant hit the mouse so if i DO hit it its less effective is silly and a terrible logic for rules design. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Nagashsnee

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

7 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Reading this (shared above):

 

 

It says you roll once for Titans for number of attacks, then the dice ROLL is equal to the remaining wounds.

 

Which means rules as written the weapon does nothing against 7+ wounds and only hits against targets on a roll equal to how many wounds left, so 3 wounds left it only hits on a 3+, 4 wounds it hits on a 4+...

 

This is rules as written and likely a mistake. But it makes it far less offensive.

 

There's clearly some mistake, because the weapon profile lists only the number of shots as variable, not the hit roll and the Warp rule states to roll "to Hit as normal". I'm also not sure if the term "Dice roll" appears at all outside of this one rule - it's Hit/Fight/Save roll. And let's be honest, there's no logical reason why a Hit roll on a Titan should be dependent on the wounds, especially that it would be easier to hit a lone Marine than a Titan. I also have hard time belivieng that one missile is supposed to target and possibly whipe out a whole  Warhound detachment (in both your and mine interpretations; btw since there can be 3 Warhounds in a detachment, does it mean that when they're on 4 wounds it's 12+ to hit? of course a 6 always hits but it's still silly). However, considering how it works in AT, I do belive that it was not intended to one shot a Warlord and most probably was supposed to deal to Titans and Knights only 1 hit=4 wounds or 1 hit per specified number of remaining wounds (e.g. 1 Hit for every three wounds remaining).