Potential Codex Space Marine Leaks

[Mogger351]

6 hours ago, redmapa said:

 Because the datasheets barely changed, the detachments seem fun but nothing great so where is the thing that will offset the nerf? So far I see nothing but a midttier faction with a worse rule than their index and that means they will struggle with index armies, was that the goal?

Datasheets barely changing is what they promised, detachments being roughly equal is what they promised and if they end up middle of the pack with a roughly 50% win rate then yes, that is the goal.

 

I agree with goonhammer they appear about on par with nids and that there doesn't seem to be power creep. Which is good!

[Rhavien]

After seeing the reviews this will be the first marine codex in over two decades I won't buy at release. I would be interested in the digital rules, but not for the price tied to a soon to be outdated book. 

 

[Karhedron]

19 hours ago, OrkPlayer137 said:

• Jump Pack Captain still has thunder hammer and storm shield option, even though it's not in the kit! This is what surprised me most.

 

Yay! Happy and surprised about this. It means this guy is still table legal! 

 

  

19 hours ago, OrkPlayer137 said:

• Razorback cannot take assault cannons.

 

That is a downer. Another casualty of the "not in the box, not in the codex" mindset. I will play mine using the legends rules if my opponents are cool with that or just proxy them as heavy bolters if they are not. 

  

19 hours ago, OrkPlayer137 said:

• Most TACTICUS characters can join firstborn squads now where relevant.

 

Probably a necessary adjustment now that Primaris and Firstborn Characters have been consolidated. Frankly I think that GW could have gone one furthers and simply erased the difference in Transports and been done with it. Would it really break the game to have Intercessors or even Hellblasters in a Rhino or Drop Pod?

Edited October 1, 2023 by Karhedron

[Doghouse]

2 hours ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

I think it's pretty hard evidence the pay to play codex cycle definitely doesn't work anymore especially in constantly updated tournement focused environment. At the very least they could have delayed the development of the codex until the first few rounds of balance updates came in but they didn't do that so that is not worth buying as it is already outdated and will only suffer and it's very likely alot of changes will only get reversed or points will drop to absurd levels to compensate. How the hell do you nerf a codex that was printed before you have any faction data. It boggles the mind.

 

I totally agree I've already seen people already calling this edition 10.2 and saying that tenth doesn't exist anymore and was the shortest edition. It's absurd that any codex or rulebook written before the "balance" passes is potentially going to get Votanned (ironically the potential new term for Squatted I guess). They should just go free online, people are paying for books and cards only to have them nerfed shortly after.

 

The only thing GW is interested in balancing these days is their bank account.

[Blindhamster]

The rules are online, you just have to buy a dead tree edition and pay a subscription to get access 

 

it’s nothing new for codex to get invalidated by errata at some point, it used to take more time because GW didn’t bother with updates or balance.

 

if people want GW to do more work on balance updates, it’s probably never going to be free, GW will realistically not be selling models writhin the next decade, so they have to make money through other things. People buy their books so they’ll keep selling them. 
 

id honestly rather that the subscription model was more expensive but came with all codex automatically.

 

 

[Lysimachus]

It's funny, I was thinking a few months back that 10th might be my return to the gaming side of the hobby... but I don't think I'll bother.

 

I don't want to pay for a dex that is out of date before I've even cracked it open. While I agree that regular balance updates of points/rules are necessary and important for the game, I just don't think it works with a system where you pay for physical copies of rule books, datasheets, etc, etc - I can't see that kind of system as sustainable. Surely, more and more players will realise that they are being ripped off in these purchases and eventually sales of these items will dwindle?

 

I think, following what @Blindhamster says above, the rules system will end up where EVERYTHING (all Codex, points, rules, etc) is kept on the App. You pay a slightly higher subscription, but EVERYTHING is always kept right up to date. (Which is a shame in some ways, as I do like having a book in my hand. Maybe physical books could be more like sourcebooks, focussed on hobby/lore/army building ideas rather than gaming?)

 

 

 

Anyway, I'm still enjoying building my new army, but I think I'll go back to building whatever I fancy and what I think looks cool, and not worry about whether something is good in the meta (whatever that means), how many points stuff costs, how to fit it into a 1k/2k list, or what dex (or Detachment) I'd use.

 

That way, GW can keep making their changes every five minutes, but I'll still be happily painting my little toys.

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by Lysimachus

[RWJP]

52 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

The rules are online, you just have to buy a dead tree edition and pay a subscription to get access

This is factually wrong.

You do not need to pay the Warhammer+ subscription to access rules in the app. You can use the code from your Codex without ever subscribing. The Free App + Code gives you full access to all the rules for the relevant Codex to refer to. 

The only benefit of the Warhammer+ subscription is being able to make more than 1 army list at a time. Subscribing is not required to view your rules in the app.

[Blindhamster]

50 minutes ago, RWJP said:

This is factually wrong.

You do not need to pay the Warhammer+ subscription to access rules in the app. You can use the code from your Codex without ever subscribing. The Free App + Code gives you full access to all the rules for the relevant Codex to refer to. 

The only benefit of the Warhammer+ subscription is being able to make more than 1 army list at a time. Subscribing is not required to view your rules in the app.

that’s fair, I actually have the subscription and use the army builder for points and all that stuff, just assumed it wasn’t available without.

 

[phandaal]

3 hours ago, Lysimachus said:

I think, following what @Blindhamster says above, the rules system will end up where EVERYTHING (all Codex, points, rules, etc) is kept on the App. You pay a slightly higher subscription, but EVERYTHING is always kept right up to date.

 

Personally, I would rather own my copy of the rules than borrow it, but a digital ruleset could still work. Pay once for one core book, then you get the digital file and any updates that are made through the lifecycle of the edition. Subscribe to get all of the core books and their updates. Army rules are free, always. Hard-copy books are available for those who want them, but are not the only option.

 

This model works elsewhere, although just typing it out makes me think GW would fight against adopting something so different from their current setup.

 

4 hours ago, Lysimachus said:

Anyway, I'm still enjoying building my new army, but I think I'll go back to building whatever I fancy and what I think looks cool, and not worry about whether something is good in the meta (whatever that means), how many points stuff costs, how to fit it into a 1k/2k list, or what dex (or Detachment) I'd use.

 

You could also consider model-agnostic systems, if you want to game with GW minis but not subject yourself to their rules. Plenty out there nowadays. Only kicker is finding people willing to take the plunge outside of the "mainstream" GW rules.

[OpossumStrong]

4 minutes ago, phandaal said:

Only kicker is finding people willing to take the plunge outside of the "mainstream" GW rules.

Me and my friends playing some sort of combined rules, using GW official + some home rules.

 

For example we play 2v2 but on 2 different boards, main board is the regular size, 2k pts each, fighting for objectives etc.

 

The second board is more of a kill team board with 2 smaller force fighting for one objective which can help the main board, like having an artillery in the middle of the small board, and whoever controls it in the start of the turn can use it to help main board.

 

We use some old rules for artillery (7th ed) so you can accidentally hit friendly forces, if it's imperial tech, lets say tyranids can't use it, so their goal is to prevent other player to hold it, and we do lots of those, main board is always official rules, the small one is 50/50.

 

By 50/50 i mean we can boost stats, or add abilities, for example in recent game we had a SM lieutenant with small retinue, boosted stats, and an ability to work with xeno tech to infiltrate necrons reanimation tombs and disable it, by doing so the main board necrons would lose the ability to reanimate, but the defences of the tomb are x2 of points compare to the SM force, and if the lieutenant dies before reaching the objective,they can't disable it, but they can control it, in this case necrons can send reinforcements and try to retake it and reanimate again, on the other side while necrons controlling it, the main board necron player receives +1 to reanimation rolls.

 

I think if you can balance this and make this fun to play, more people would agree to play this way, it's just way more fun IMO.

[VengefulJan]

I love the fact that I a majority of characters can join tactical squads again JUST for the purpose of denying them entry into a rhino… GW makes me tear my hair out every day.

 

Just found out this morning that my moaning and whining is a non-issue. Thank you Auspex Tactics for properly reviewing the transport data sheets and not just stating that there is still a divide.

Edited October 2, 2023 by VengefulJan

[irlLordy]

1 hour ago, VengefulJan said:

I love the fact that I a majority of characters can join tactical squads again JUST for the purpose of denying them entry into a rhino… GW makes me tear my hair out every day.

 

Tacticals can now combat squad at least, so razorbacks are fixed anyway. They probably should have said rhinos can take one space marine unit, and avoided this problem entirely.

Edited October 1, 2023 by irlLordy

[OrkPlayer137]

TACTICUS characters can ride in a Rhino or Razorback if attached to a non-TACTICUS unit - I think this is mentioned somewhere in the Rhino or Razorback rules. I think they included this in one of the updates to the Index even before the Codex release, but I may be mistaken.

[Lemondish]

1 hour ago, VengefulJan said:

I love the fact that I a majority of characters can join tactical squads again JUST for the purpose of denying them entry into a rhino… GW makes me tear my hair out every day.

 

Check again. Tacticus characters are allowed in Rhinos and Razorbacks now, provided they are leading a non-Tacticus unit. It's why the keyword got spread around and how they managed combining Firstborn and Primaries characters into shared data sheets.

 

GW actually thought of this issue. You were quick to ream them over this, despite missing that it was resolved. I wonder, would you be just as quick to praise them here?

Edited October 1, 2023 by Lemondish

[Dark Shepherd]

9 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

Datasheets barely changing is what they promised, detachments being roughly equal is what they promised and if they end up middle of the pack with a roughly 50% win rate then yes, that is the goal.

 

I agree with goonhammer they appear about on par with nids and that there doesn't seem to be power creep. Which is good!

Im cautiously optimistic about this too but IIRC Death Guard in 8th and Necrons in 9th werent shocking powerful

 

Its possible the launch factions are only playtested against each other as they have to be done first

 

If we get a non broken Eldar codex then I will become a believer :)

[Lemondish]

14 minutes ago, Dark Shepherd said:

If we get a non broken Eldar codex then I will become a believer :)

 

Oh, that's the promised land, for sure.

 

Will be a while, though. Admech and Necrons are up next, then Dark Angels, Orks, Custodes, T'au, and CSM to round out the first batch by spring of '24.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Lemondish

[SkimaskMohawk]

I find it funny how the rhino can barely transport anything in the vanilla marine list.  Kinda feels like the primaris rhino is just around the corner since there's barely anything to go into the classic transports.

[SicklyPiglet]

7 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

I find it funny how the rhino can barely transport anything in the vanilla marine list.  Kinda feels like the primaris rhino is just around the corner since there's barely anything to go into the classic transports.

I wish for nothing more than if the Impulsor could carry more than 6. 
 

[mecanojavi99]

3 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

I find it funny how the rhino can barely transport anything in the vanilla marine list.  Kinda feels like the primaris rhino is just around the corner since there's barely anything to go into the classic transports.

Elongate the Impulsor a bit, cover the back, remove the turret on top and voila, you have the new Rhino.

 

[The Unseen]

Well, I'll be watching from the sidelines while DA/BT/Wolves abuse the new Detachments until that gets removed.

 

Overall this is a straight nerf to a not-great faction; as expected the gutting of Oath did not lead to a wide revamp of mediocre datasheets, and in fact quite a few are nerfed on top of that for... no real discernable reason?

But aggressors, the unit that everyone was already looking at after the Desolation nerf and have twin-linked got a buff?

GW had the nerf in the pipeline before the index even dropped, what a joke.

[Lemondish]

I have a very different opinion on this book, it seems. It appears to be a well-rounded codex with solid internal balance. The Chapter-inspired marine identities feel pretty well captured in the detachments here in a way that is very welcome - no more Blue Iron Hands (even if that's essentially the outcome, it just squares away logically much easier now)! It's a minor thing, but it is still nice. Nothing seems to be too overpowered, and while there's concerns here and elsewhere with how it'll fare in high level competition now that Oaths isn't a factor, I remain unconcerned. There's some really interesting opportunities for some seriously fun looking lists, with some key mobility benefits that are all the rage in 10th, and I'll take fun lists over meta warping any day of the week!

[Sir Clausel]

2 hours ago, Lemondish said:

I have a very different opinion on this book, it seems. It appears to be a well-rounded codex with solid internal balance. The Chapter-inspired marine identities feel pretty well captured in the detachments here in a way that is very welcome - no more Blue Iron Hands (even if that's essentially the outcome, it just squares away logically much easier now)! It's a minor thing, but it is still nice. Nothing seems to be too overpowered, and while there's concerns here and elsewhere with how it'll fare in high level competition now that Oaths isn't a factor, I remain unconcerned. There's some really interesting opportunities for some seriously fun looking lists, with some key mobility benefits that are all the rage in 10th, and I'll take fun lists over meta warping any day of the week!

I agree.

The codex overall seems fine. I do think the iron hand detachment seems more powerfull though than the others and the first company detachment rule is really lackluster. 

Only thing that concerns me and i hope gets a fix day one is stuff like the terminator captain lost ability to take hammers, shields and claws. But not the jump pack captain?

[Lemondish]

31 minutes ago, Sir Clausel said:

Only thing that concerns me and i hope gets a fix day one is stuff like the terminator captain lost ability to take hammers, shields and claws. But not the jump pack captain?

 

That was definitely super weird, but I wonder if we'll see some limited edition/special release smash captain in the not too distant future.

[Sir Clausel]

2 hours ago, Lemondish said:

 

That was definitely super weird, but I wonder if we'll see some limited edition/special release smash captain in the not too distant future.

Yeah. But i thought so to about terminator captain. Assault terminators are yet to come(maaybe with dark angels?) and that would be an opportune moment to release one with either claws or hammer/shield

[Frogian]

Have the Company Heroes wargear options leaked anywhere?