Codex Space Marine Previews

[Lord Marshal]

Sounds like the leaks were accurate.

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Lord Marshal

[TrawlingCleaner]

=][= I've split this out from the Leaks topic so we can have a clear start to the offical information =][=

Edited September 18, 2023 by TrawlingCleaner

[WrathOfTheLion]

I am really excited to see at least some degree of paint guide added back into Codices. That's something AoS battletomes have been doing, which is really helpful. It's good to see that change for 40k.

[Brother Casman]

So, why are Dark Angels and Blood Angels in this book, if they're getting their own codices down the line? 

[SvenIronhand]

The Salamanders one looks interesting.

[mecanojavi99]

10 minutes ago, Brother Casman said:

So, why are Dark Angels and Blood Angels in this book, if they're getting their own codices down the line? 

Probably similar to 9th, basic rules in this codex and a Supplement down the line that gives them expanded rules.

[Wormwoods]

12 minutes ago, Brother Casman said:

So, why are Dark Angels and Blood Angels in this book, if they're getting their own codices down the line? 

Because they can still take all the detachments and units from the book, one assumes. They've been keen on repeating the whole 'this detachment is good for a specific Chapter but anyone can use it, also' line.

[Frogian]

17 minutes ago, Brother Casman said:

So, why are Dark Angels and Blood Angels in this book, if they're getting their own codices down the line? 

What do you mean by 'in this book'? The detachments that represent DA/BA/SW aren't going to be in there, and neither will their special characters or special units

[Vardus]

Ok, so the video shows a couple more things.

 

Anvil Siege Force: Can't fully show the detachment rule but what is there seems to confirm the rumoured rule.  Two Enhancments visible; Indomitable Fury, Destroyed Bearer on a 2+ gets back up with full wounds and Fleet Commander, looks like some sort of bombardment.

 

Firestorm Assault Force: Stratagems, Burning Vengeance; Battle Tactic, Attacked Transport unit, one embarked unit may disembark as if the movement phase and shoot as if the shooting phase at attacking unit. Two others partially visible, one affecting transports and the other causing a Battle Shock test.

[redmapa]

I  was excited with the 1st company detachment but that rule is crap! It's just today's oath of moment which isn't that exciting or new, guess marines can't be anywhere near 50%WR, better nerf them!.

 

Good news is  VanVets are still a thing.

[Kastor Krieg]

War-tempered Lightning Claws go SHNIKT!

Edited September 18, 2023 by Kastor Krieg

[sandrorect]

24 minutes ago, Brother Casman said:

So, why are Dark Angels and Blood Angels in this book, if they're getting their own codices down the line? 

 

Maybe is lore only. No rules for them.

[Lysimachus]

12 minutes ago, Frogian said:

What do you mean by 'in this book'? The detachments that represent DA/BA/SW aren't going to be in there, and neither will their special characters or special units

 

 

I would say this ties in to the whole 'colour scheme doesn't lock you into rules' thing. You could take an army built using any of the 7 Detachments from Codex SM, but they could painted up as DA/SW/BA. Hence they are included in the fluff section.

 

However, as the Codex for these forces will presumably be totally separate and self-sufficient, I reckon if you want to include Chapter-specific units with their own datasheets/rules you'd have to use the proper Codex?

 

Edit: ninja'd! Agree with sandrorect.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Lysimachus

[Lemondish]

14 minutes ago, redmapa said:

I  was excited with the 1st company detachment but that rule is crap! It's just today's oath of moment which isn't that exciting or new, guess marines can't be anywhere near 50%WR, better nerf them!.

 

Good news is  VanVets are still a thing.

 

I suspect having old Oaths on top of other sources of wound rerolls, as hinted in the article, is more thematic and acceptable to all those who hated playing against Oaths. That ability would (still) work well as a tool to take down a particularly tough threat, but now just limited to a single key turn, while the rest of the army is also apparently going to have other ways to access wound rerolls to keep up offensively outside of it.

 

Remains to be seen where these rerolls will come from, of course.

[Squark]

19 minutes ago, redmapa said:

I  was excited with the 1st company detachment but that rule is crap! It's just today's oath of moment which isn't that exciting or new, guess marines can't be anywhere near 50%WR, better nerf them!.

 

Good news is  VanVets are still a thing.

Playing Devil's advocate here, it could be that Oath of Moment had been problematic in testing and that changing it allows them to buff the rest of the codex. But somehow I doubt it.

[Lemondish]

8 minutes ago, Squark said:

Playing Devil's advocate here, it could be that Oath of Moment had been problematic in testing and that changing it allows them to buff the rest of the codex. But somehow I doubt it.

 

They did mention other sources of wound rerolls, which could mean more widespread access against more targets, but less 'all in one' like Oaths is.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Lemondish

[Brother Casman]

50 minutes ago, sandrorect said:

 

Maybe is lore only. No rules for them.

 

This probably makes the most sense, but I still find it odd that they're getting a mention. I was sure that the idea was that Dark Angels were going to be completely separate, but maybe I misunderstood/inferred something from GW.

[CCE1981]

It feels bad when their first line can be summarized as "we nerfed you."  Not seeing anything to mitigate the nerf yet. 

 

From what they have shown:

 

First Company Task Force

   -Detachment rule -Extremis Level Threat - is garbage, for one turn I get to re-roll wounds against Oat target....seriously for 1 round I get full use out of a high mediocre Index Faction ability? Yeah this feels like an insult

   -Enhancement - Iron Resolve - has use, and looks decently strong...can only be taken on the only First Company unit you would take it on realistically

   -Stratagem - Legendary Fortitude - definitely good, and is a Battle Tactic so two units a turn can potentially use it AND it goes off after your opponent COMPLETED a Charge definitely good

 

Firestorm Assault Force

   -Detachment rule - Close Range Eradication - All ranged weapons gain Assault....even vehicles everyone is Advancing and shooting plus +1 Str within 12" ok this is WAY better than First Company - not very good with melta weaponry

   -Enhancement - War-Tempered Artifice - ehhh, buffs melee, Melee is weak not good enough

    -Stratagem - Burning Vengeance (from the video) - waste of Battle Tactic, A Captain's free stratagem won't proc as he isn't on the board,  can shoot in your opponent's shooting phase so ok, but means jumping out of your protective vehicle, niche, to disembark a low wound vehicle you think is going to die, or if you have a Heavy weapon squad

 

Gladius Task Force - from video looks unchanged, runs with what we saw in Nids

 

Anvil Siege Force - from video

 -Detachment rule - Shield of the Imperium - all weapons gain Heavy, and Weapons with Heavy gain something else if they remained stationary, not sure, but generally you want mobility in 10e so not sure, maybe set up a good backline with Heavy Weapons and situationally pause.

-Enhancement - Indomitable Furry - 5/6 resurrect a Gravis Model - maybe a Biologis can re-attach to a squad if it is sniped out, some people will like this but to me it just means your model is going to die again, your characters death still gives your opponent VPs soo...?

-Enhancement - Fleet Commander - A Captain Once per battle....when has this ever really been Good?

 

There is some interesting things in here, more should be coming, hopefully, my mind isn't made up yet.  Just not convinced that nerfing Oath of Moment was necessary.  The  First Company Detachment Rule really feels insulting though, for 1 turn I get the Index Faction Rule.  From the very limited stuff I have seen at the very least Terminators, Bladeguard, Sternguard, and Vanguard should have been able to re-roll wounds all game, it's only 5 targets, and anything else in your list only once per game.

 

[Alternis]

10 minutes ago, CCE1981 said:

It feels bad when their first line can be summarized as "we nerfed you."  Not seeing anything to mitigate the nerf yet. 

 

From what they have shown:

 

First Company Task Force

   -Detachment rule -Extremis Level Threat - is garbage, for one turn I get to re-roll wounds against Oat target....seriously for 1 round I get full use out of a high mediocre Index Faction ability? Yeah this feels like an insult

   -Enhancement - Iron Resolve - has use, and looks decently strong...can only be taken on the only First Company unit you would take it on realistically

   -Stratagem - Legendary Fortitude - definitely good, and is a Battle Tactic so two units a turn can potentially use it AND it goes off after your opponent COMPLETED a Charge definitely good

 

Firestorm Assault Force

   -Detachment rule - Close Range Eradication - All ranged weapons gain Assault....even vehicles everyone is Advancing and shooting plus +1 Str within 12" ok this is WAY better than First Company - not very good with melta weaponry

   -Enhancement - War-Tempered Artifice - ehhh, buffs melee, Melee is weak not good enough

    -Stratagem - Burning Vengeance (from the video) - waste of Battle Tactic, A Captain's free stratagem won't proc as he isn't on the board,  can shoot in your opponent's shooting phase so ok, but means jumping out of your protective vehicle, niche, to disembark a low wound vehicle you think is going to die, or if you have a Heavy weapon squad

 

Gladius Task Force - from video looks unchanged, runs with what we saw in Nids

 

Anvil Siege Force - from video

 -Detachment rule - Shield of the Imperium - all weapons gain Heavy, and Weapons with Heavy gain something else if they remained stationary, not sure, but generally you want mobility in 10e so not sure, maybe set up a good backline with Heavy Weapons and situationally pause.

-Enhancement - Indomitable Furry - 5/6 resurrect a Gravis Model - maybe a Biologis can re-attach to a squad if it is sniped out, some people will like this but to me it just means your model is going to die again, your characters death still gives your opponent VPs soo...?

-Enhancement - Fleet Commander - A Captain Once per battle....when has this ever really been Good?

 

There is some interesting things in here, more should be coming, hopefully, my mind isn't made up yet.  Just not convinced that nerfing Oath of Moment was necessary.  The  First Company Detachment Rule really feels insulting though, for 1 turn I get the Index Faction Rule.  From the very limited stuff I have seen at the very least Terminators, Bladeguard, Sternguard, and Vanguard should have been able to re-roll wounds all game, it's only 5 targets, and anything else in your list only once per game.

 

The mitigation to the nerfs they did mention. 

 

Unit abilities are being buffed or changed.

All we can hope, is these changes are enough to offset the nerf.

[Alternis]

44 minutes ago, Lemondish said:

 

They did mention other sources of wound rerolls, which could mean more widespread access against more targets, but less 'all in one' like Oaths is.

Look at Eradicators with the salamanders detachments. 
When you put them altogether, it does look pretty effective.

 

[CCE1981]

Hope I am not too negative, on all that.  

 

7 minutes ago, Alternis said:

The mitigation to the nerfs they did mention. 

 

 They stated that it would be mitigated, but didn't really show it.  How many times has GW said they did something and what they hailed as the fix didn't do what they thought it would.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Alternis said:

Unit abilities are being buffed or changed.

 

I can only go off of what they have shown, not too familiar with Tyranids but were there changes to Tyranids units?

 

9 minutes ago, Alternis said:

All we can hope, is these changes are enough to offset the nerf.

 

Yeah, agreed, need to see the whole codex here, just hard to have hope when this is all we see.

[TrawlingCleaner]

To be totally honest, these GW previews tend to be actually awful for showing rules off. In recent memory: the CSM Index missed off the Chaos marks explanation, the LI previews seem to do a disservice to the actual rules (as per the leaked rules anyways), some of the Cities of Sigmar previews showed only partial rules and only the most boring bits

 

You'd think for an advertising avenue for the company they'd figure out how to advertise their rules properly

[Alternis]

3 minutes ago, CCE1981 said:

I can only go off of what they have shown, not too familiar with Tyranids but were there changes to Tyranids units?

Yes, there was a lot of sweeping changes to the Tyranid abilities. 
lictors lost their invuns.

biovores can only spawn 1 spore mine no matter what, but they got a better save, taking 1 is almost auto include 

Rippers unit compo was reconfigured making it a big buff to take them now.

tyrannofex’s ability was changes from -1 damage to make any incoming damage, damage 0.

but these were mostly nerfs or adjustments because the detachments were pretty good. 
 

6 minutes ago, CCE1981 said:

They stated that it would be mitigated, but didn't really show it.  How many times has GW said they did something and what they hailed as the fix didn't do what they thought it would.

I’m going off rumours, leaks, etc but what I’m hearing about the new jump units sounds really positive, so my fingers are crossed it’s a trend coming with everything else.

 

And you aren’t being negative, I often find people who have been burned by GW a few times find it hard to see the word ‘changes’ and imagine anything positive I don’t blame you at all, but coming in from 9th GW have stuck to their word, the game is more simplified and lethality is down, a lot, it’s just a shame they messed up with Aeldari, and likely unintended consequence of making vehicles way too good in index.

[tzeentch9]

Like the firestorm detachment for my chaos renegade marines

[Xenith]

1 hour ago, Alternis said:

but these were mostly nerfs or adjustments because the detachments were pretty good. 

 

First I've heard of them being good! I think the internet decided some are marginal, while the best remains the Index invasion swarm. Coupled with the nerfs to good units, the codex is a downgrade, aside from the Crusade content.

 

On the other hand, the Marine codex affects most units in there, with seemingly strong rules, so straight upgrades!

 

OoM had to go in it's incarnation, it was too strong. 1st co rules are still great and thematic, and allows those mainly bolters to do some work. I'm sure the dex will have many ways to get more boosts.