Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis: The Great Slaughter

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

22 minutes ago, DuskRaider said:

I’m pretty sure that in HHv1.0 you could transport 10 Terminators or 20 Marines in a Spartan… it’s admittedly been quite some time since I’ve last played, but I’m pretty sure that’s why I had 4 Spartans in my Pride of the Legion list. 

The same applies to HH 2.0. Terminators take two passenger seats. The term used is Bulky just like in LI. Primarch takes even more passenger seats than a terminator.

[DuskRaider]

Well this all kinda ruins my whole plan for my eventual build… with both Spartans being ridiculously expensive in-game, not being dedicated transports and not transporting Terminators as much as I was hoping, it isn’t really feasible to build a PotL-type force now. What a bummer. 

[Nagashsnee]

6 hours ago, DuskRaider said:

Well this all kinda ruins my whole plan for my eventual build… with both Spartans being ridiculously expensive in-game, not being dedicated transports and not transporting Terminators as much as I was hoping, it isn’t really feasible to build a PotL-type force now. What a bummer. 

 

Hear me out, terminators en mass on foot, spartans full of tactical marines and jetbikes to screen them with tank/air/titan support, Its still very PoTL just that the termies are on foot. Its not 100% what you want but its damn close, and termies are great for walking up the board/dealing with enemy assaults. 

[DuskRaider]

3 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

 

Hear me out, terminators en mass on foot, spartans full of tactical marines and jetbikes to screen them with tank/air/titan support, Its still very PoTL just that the termies are on foot. Its not 100% what you want but its damn close, and termies are great for walking up the board/dealing with enemy assaults. 

Meh… I’m probably going to avoid most of the Fast Attack options (Jet Bikes, Javelins, etc. ). I’m going to keep my fingers crossed that GW will eventually release a PotL-type Formation that allows Spartans to be taken as Dedicated Transports at a discount or something. Until then I’ll just keep on keeping on I suppose. 
 

I’ve already got a lot of Terminators with even more unpainted, so I’m hoping to get some special stuff for them at some point. At this point, I struggle taking them all in a force due to the current limitations in the existing Formations. 

Edited February 21 by DuskRaider

[Mandragola]

I don't expect that we'll see discount Spartans for anyone. It's conceivable they'd mess around with points costs at some point but I'd be surprised as this is a specialist game and they almost never do balance passes.

 

You can't transport Ogryns and Veletarii in Thunderhawks, Spartans or any of the marine vehicles. Transports (even non-dedicated ones) can only carry models from their formation. Solar Auxilia still lack any sort of assault transport. They've only got the Dracosan and Arvus, neither of which is currently on sale in plastic.

 

With Terminators I think the idea is that they're versatile troops with guns as well as melee strength. They do have those accurate bolters, which will do some damage if they get to fire. You can't justify their cost with melee alone.

Edited February 22 by Mandragola

[DuskRaider]

I’m starting to lose faith that we’ll see a Terminator-centric Formation at all. The more I think about it, the less I believe they’ll split up the Infantry box at all and while I could see them attempt to make Specialist formations and force people to purchase the kits over and over for little gain, I think they know it would be more likely that people would just print what they need at that point. 
 

I suppose at this point I’ll just keep running massed infantry and tanks and maybe they’ll surprise me at some point. 

[Matrindur]

3 hours ago, DuskRaider said:

I’m starting to lose faith that we’ll see a Terminator-centric Formation at all. The more I think about it, the less I believe they’ll split up the Infantry box at all and while I could see them attempt to make Specialist formations and force people to purchase the kits over and over for little gain, I think they know it would be more likely that people would just print what they need at that point. 
 

I suppose at this point I’ll just keep running massed infantry and tanks and maybe they’ll surprise me at some point. 

I don't really expect them splitting the infantry sprue up into dedicated boxes, too many boxes needed that way. 

But I could see future boxes that also have another 6 terminators (Tartarus?) on them together with other new stuff.

 

New Heavy Support squad weapons are all but confirmed because the IF rules talks about Plasma Cannons/Lascannons/Autocannons/Heavy Bolters on infantry which only appear on HS squads in HH so we know more infantry sets are coming. Also just stuff like Despoiler/Destroyer/Breacher/Seeker Marines that should be coming anyways.

 

The question is if they cram everything onto one sprue like the current infantry sprue so for example instead of the tacticals we get 8 bases of despoilers, the Cataphractii/Assault/Missile/Plasma Marines are replaced by Tartarus/Destroyer/Breacher/Seeker Marines, the Command squad could be a terminator command instead and the freed up space form the contemptors could be used for the heavy weapons squads. 

Or if they do it in multiple boxes with more bases of each per box which I can't really see happening.

 

Of course that wouldn't really solve the actual issue but at least for Terminators if you could get a few in multiple boxes its still better than having to buy your 10th command squad you would never need just to get 10 bases of Terminators.

 

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

12 hours ago, Mandragola said:

You can't transport Ogryns and Veletarii in Thunderhawks, Spartans or any of the marine vehicles. Transports (even non-dedicated ones) can only carry models from their formation. Solar Auxilia still lack any sort of assault transport. They've only got the Dracosan and Arvus, neither of which is currently on sale in plastic.

 

Well, the thing is, that restriction on page 129 only talks about models with the Transport X rule (or variation of) that fill a transport detachment slot. Eagles and hawks aren't in that slot.

 

It's still tricky to do though. I don't believe sequencing allows them to be deployed in, but you can embark on turn 1 if you start in hover.

[Matrindur]

36 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Well, the thing is, that restriction on page 129 only talks about models with the Transport X rule (or variation of) that fill a transport detachment slot. Eagles and hawks aren't in that slot.

While RAW that is true and I can't find anything anywhere else in the book to contradict it, I doubt that's actually how its intended. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

1 hour ago, Matrindur said:

While RAW that is true and I can't find anything anywhere else in the book to contradict it, I doubt that's actually how its intended. 

 

That's kinda the slogan for half the rules in the game lol, muddied further with great slaughter.

 

I think its a dumb interaction and worth saying no to, but it's also worth pointing out as an interaction in the first place.

 

 

[Noserenda]

It could be the intended difference between dedicated transports and ones in their own slot in the bigger scale games?  Or a mess obviously :D 

[Interrogator Stobz]

If planes want to spend T1 in hover they aren't making it to T2 in games I play. The term Sitting Ducks is a thing.

[Mandragola]

13 hours ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

If planes want to spend T1 in hover they aren't making it to T2 in games I play. The term Sitting Ducks is a thing.

Maybe not, but they can deliver their troops. I've heard of people deploying planes in hover so they can use terrain to avoid getting shot down by overwatch. On some boards that might be preferable, if there's enough LoS blocking stuff.

[Matrindur]

42 minutes ago, Mandragola said:

Maybe not, but they can deliver their troops.

Yeah but this was talking about SA units in SM planes. Since they can't start in the planes this is only possible by going into hover on turn 1 and letting the SA units embark. And the above comment was about that likely ending in them shot down

[SkimaskMohawk]

Idk how hovering would result in getting shot down right away. Tha game really wants people to use a lot of stuff to block LoS with obstructing terrain, and some.of the best terrain out there for the scale also blocks a lot (drop zone commander buildings, battlefield in a box cliffs and buttes).

 

You guys playing on planet bowling ball? Or toss a handful of tiny structures down and call it a day? The game is at its least fun when it's kill hammer on turn 1 and 2 and then...ends.

[Interrogator Stobz]

It's all just hypotheticals so yeah, risks vs rewards will be different each time.

The opposition planes won't have any problems seeing planes in hover for example, will they prioritize them? It depends.

Artillery/Barrage units (once they exist) may also choose to target them, maybe not.

I guess my original statement was in relation to the 'RAW/RAI' part of the original discussion... I'd always allow it due to it's risk.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

4 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Idk how hovering would result in getting shot down right away. Tha game really wants people to use a lot of stuff to block LoS with obstructing terrain, and some.of the best terrain out there for the scale also blocks a lot (drop zone commander buildings, battlefield in a box cliffs and buttes).

 

You guys playing on planet bowling ball? Or toss a handful of tiny structures down and call it a day? The game is at its least fun when it's kill hammer on turn 1 and 2 and then...ends.

Also when in doubt build your own terrain.

[Schrödingers Primarch]

Direwolf kits are up on eBay from a supposed liquidation seller. I'm hoping they have sufficient stock when the product releases. Production issues are one thing, but there is more to the story here. 

Edited February 24 by Schrödingers Primarch

[Marshal Rohr]

What is a liquidation seller?

[Pacific81]

Isn't it when liquidators have moved in on a bankrupt business and claim/sell stock to attempt to mark money back from that business? In which case I'm not sure why that shop would have stock not commonly available yet - unless they had already been sent it by GW, it's on pre-order and they had had orders not to sell it until a release date? Which I assume the liquidators would not know about or respect.

 

Vanguard Miniatures do a really good proxy of those if anyone wants something a bit alternative https://vanguardminiatures.co.uk/product-category/defeat-in-detail-6mm/cybershadow-technocracy/cybershadow-warstalkers/

[Matcap86]

24 minutes ago, Pacific81 said:

Isn't it when liquidators have moved in on a bankrupt business and claim/sell stock to attempt to mark money back from that business? In which case I'm not sure why that shop would have stock not commonly available yet - unless they had already been sent it by GW, it's on pre-order and they had had orders not to sell it until a release date? Which I assume the liquidators would not know about or respect.

 

Vanguard Miniatures do a really good proxy of those if anyone wants something a bit alternative https://vanguardminiatures.co.uk/product-category/defeat-in-detail-6mm/cybershadow-technocracy/cybershadow-warstalkers/

 

Yeah the liquidation sounds like a (poor) story to cover up someone nicking it from transport/warehouse. GW doesn't send unreleased stuff to shops months in advance.

[LameBeard]

5 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

What is a liquidation seller?

I agree with @Pacific81’s definition, but people also use the term more sloppily as a “going out of business, closing down sale” sort of thing: ie turn everything to cash.

 

And if you are winding up your business (which might still be solvent, just presumably not that healthy), there isn’t much of a threat from GW). Having said that, doing this for brand new stock seems very unlikely to me. What are their other items? It should be the codices from 2 editions ago they got lumbered with.

[StraightSilver]

I believe there are also auctions for damaged/seized/abandoned shipping containers? It's possible a container that had GW stock in it was damaged in transit, more likely with current world events, and the contents were split up and sold off. If GW had lost containers it might explain some stock issues (although I think that's more related to the ERP fiasco).

Edited February 24 by StraightSilver

[Matcap86]

25 minutes ago, StraightSilver said:

I believe there are also auctions for damaged/seized/abandoned shipping containers? It's possible a container that had GW stock in it was damaged in transit, more likely with current world events, and the contents were split up and sold off. If GW had lost containers it might explain some stock issues (although I think that's more related to the ERP fiasco).

 

I have had a FLGS cancel some of my recent orders due to, apparently, a shipping accident containing some GW stuff. So might be not too far-fetched that this is stock that was meant to go to one of the EU/US warehouses. 

Edited February 24 by Matcap86

[Joe]

2 hours ago, Matcap86 said:

 

Yeah the liquidation sounds like a (poor) story to cover up someone nicking it from transport/warehouse. GW doesn't send unreleased stuff to shops months in advance.

 

This doesn't seem to be the case all the time; the T'au release for 9E was in our LGS a solid 2-3 weeks before it officially went on pre-order, and we've had a few recent releases (Flesheater Courts, Dark Angels) that turned up a few weeks before they'd officially gone to pre-order for LGS.