Horus Heresy Legiones Astartes Command Squad Upgrades

[bloodhound23]

40 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

"Grittyness" would be down to painting style would it not?

No, I’m thinking of things like rivets, sharper angles and ellipses in helmet design, and particularly the pointed greaves on the old mkIII feet.

Edited March 29 by bloodhound23

[Aarik]

I agree with everyone saying this seems pretty underwhelming.  The combat shields look fine, but seem an unnecessary inclusion given the assault squad that just came out.  The heads seem "meh."  Swords are fine, but it seems like we're getting five of the exact same one?  Even if the swords themselves are identical, it would have been nice to get different hand poses/angles.  It would have been nice to get more extra bolt pistols.  The vexillas, however, look pretty exciting.  I'm worried though that the banner blowing sideways in the wind will mean that the gorgeous rectangular vexilla decals on most of the FW legion transfer sheets won't fit correctly on the banner.  That seems like it would be a major unforced error, which makes it seem even more likely that it is indeed the case...

[Nephaston]

37 minutes ago, Aarik said:

I'm worried though that the banner blowing sideways in the wind will mean that the gorgeous rectangular vexilla decals on most of the FW legion transfer sheets won't fit correctly on the banner.  That seems like it would be a major unforced error, which makes it seem even more likely that it is indeed the case...

On the assembled IF picture the banner is visibly convex, and moreso on the right side. Meaning a properly aligned transfer should should look fine. Depending on the dimensions one might either need to trim the transfer in some places, or mask the edge of the design with paint if it doesn't reach.

Imo nothing too difficult to do.

[Tokugawa]

It seems also compatible with future MK 2/4/5 bodies. So more "generic" and less "stylish" is understandable.

[Corswain]

Yeah, I'm happy.

They have the character head sets, melee weapons are coming, legion specific helmets and shoulder pads.

I know not everyone is going to want to buy that many kits but I would usually pick up one of each to sprinkle through my army and it would give me more than enough pieces to play around with.

Hopefully the melee kit has some nice options, though.

[Felix Antipodes]

I wish they had shown the transfer sheet as well.  It sounds massive.

[Bung]

3 hours ago, Xirix said:

I don't know why people were expecting Apothecary bits... just because LI had one in the Command Squad, that has no bearing on HH's Command Squad.

 

Cause people hoped it would be closer to the old 40k Command Squad which Had Options for a Company Champion, Apothecary and a Banner Bearer.

Edited March 29 by Bung

[OttoVonAwesome]

10 minutes ago, Bung said:

 

Cause people hoped it would be closer to the old 40k Command Squad which Had Options for a Company Champion, Apothecary and a Banner Bearer.

Older rumour said it had apothecary bits as well but yeah that turned out hella false. Always eat your rumours with hefty amounts of salt.

[01RTB01]

18 minutes ago, Bung said:

 

Cause people hoped it would be closer to the old 40k Command Squad which Had Options for a Company Champion, Apothecary and a Banner Bearer.

Conversely the command squad entry in heresy doesn't have those bar the banner.

[Etruscan]

8 hours ago, Nephaston said:

"Grittyness" would be down to painting style would it not?

 

That can play a part to a degree but I'm referring more to the shift in aesthetic in HH 2.0. Compare the original Forgeworld Praetors with the two plastic Praetors released with the relaunch box set. There have been there threads where they do side by side comparisons with new and old HH models.

 

I would agree with BloodHound's use of the words "increasing Marvelization" of the HH aesthetic. It's just a personal take. Some of the recent Forgeworld Heresy models have been great and others just seemed dolled up like the proverbial Christmas tree. Sometimes I feel like the designers these days are like that famous SNL sketch with Christopher Walken: "More Cowbell!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Elzender]

Price wise, would it be too optimistic to expect the full squads to have the same price as the auxilia command squad? It basically follows the same pattern of a 5-man sprue with an upgrade sprue on top of it.

[Fire Golem]

Just now, Elzender said:

Price wise, would it be too optimistic to expect the full squads to have the same price as the auxilia command squad? It basically follows the same pattern of a 5-man sprue with an upgrade sprue on top of it.

It shouldn’t be too far off hopefully. It’s not like the Solar Auxilia infantry are any cheaper than Marines (well, the MkIII kit anyway). 

[Nephaston]

48 minutes ago, Etruscan said:

 

That can play a part to a degree but I'm referring more to the shift in aesthetic in HH 2.0. Compare the original Forgeworld Praetors with the two plastic Praetors released with the relaunch box set. There have been there threads where they do side by side comparisons with new and old HH models.

 

I would agree with BloodHound's use of the words "increasing Marvelization" of the HH aesthetic. It's just a personal take. Some of the recent Forgeworld Heresy models have been great and others just seemed dolled up like the proverbial Christmas tree. Sometimes I feel like the designers these days are like that famous SNL sketch with Christopher Walken: "More Cowbell!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know. To me the old praetors do the same thing as the new ones, offer a decorated, trimmed up officer. The old ones do it in an angular, utilitarian fashion, the new ones in sweeping and almost elegant one, like they would wear it for a parade. Both look more like they could represent different stages of the 200-ish years of the Great Crusade, less so the seven years of Heresy and neither is a universal fit for all legions (the old ones seem more WE, IW, DG, LW or pre-primarch legions to me while the new ones are a better fit for EC and BA, and neither of them being a good enough fit for Legions like SA, NL, SW, or AL.)

 

I also feel that the presentation of the minis with their respective paintjobs can't be discounted as the old ones were presented in a muted scheme utilising washes and grime and eschewing highlights beyond the necessary, while the new ones are the usual fare of bold 'eavy metal painting that absolutely has to show every detail by highlighting the highlights of the highlights. And as with any artistic medium it seems to be down to preference, like impressionism vs expressionism, or Art Deco vs Art Nouveau, or some other artsy fartsy terminology that I don't know.

[lansalt]

1 hour ago, Etruscan said:

Some of the recent Forgeworld Heresy models have been great and others just seemed dolled up like the proverbial Christmas tree

For me it's a matter of execution. Too much ornamentation is fine if it fits the model (like say, the WB praetors). The problem with several of the newer minis like the AoD praetors is that they try to make them generic but the iconography is all over the place and makes no sense. Why the SoH axe praetor has an Imperialis in his backpack with random metal skulls? Why the IF praetor has bling like a EC officer with an stupid oversized anime sword? Why the generic Traitor Champion is covered in SoH and Ornance icons? Why the Librarian doesn't have a psychic hood and a force weapon? Why the Siege Breaker looks like a Techmarine?
It's not even the obvious willfull disregard of character minis that look nothing like in the books (like Zephon), is like sometimes they're copy pasting stuff without caring about their previously stablished lore for all that iconography.

[Gamiel]

9 minutes ago, lansalt said:

Why the SoH axe praetor has an Imperialis in his backpack with random metal skulls? Why the IF praetor has bling like a EC officer with an stupid oversized anime sword? 

You know that those praetors are generic, to be used by any legion.

[Joe]

Also worth noting that the aquila was used by both sides of the conflict.

[lansalt]

25 minutes ago, Gamiel said:

You know that those praetors are generic, to be used by any legion.

That's my point, they aim to be that but end being unfit without changes for almost all legions, even the ones they represent in the AoD box
 

23 minutes ago, Joe said:

Also worth noting that the aquila was used by both sides of the conflict.

The traitors, save the EC for the irony and mockery of it,  explicitly removed or defaced their aquilas in the lore (like Talos of the NL).

[Gamiel]

1 hour ago, lansalt said:

That's my point, they aim to be that but end being unfit without changes for almost all legions, even the ones they represent in the AoD box

We will have to agree to disagree here, you get very far with a paintjob and some transfers.

 

1 hour ago, lansalt said:

The traitors, save the EC for the irony and mockery of it,  explicitly removed or defaced their aquilas in the lore (like Talos of the NL).

Do we have any examples that are not from post-30k?

[Ripper.McGuirl]

I am stoked for this kit. I really like that they are offering it both on its own or bundled with each different armor mark.

If I had a critique it would be that I wish there were more of the shoulder pads, because they are rad.

Hopefully they also show off a bigass pack of power weapons the way they put out the special weapons.

[lansalt]

9 minutes ago, Gamiel said:

Do we have any examples that are not from post-30k?

Not from the top of my head, but Talos 100% did it at the start of the HH, and I'm sure there are other examples.

[Doobles57]

40 minutes ago, Ripper.McGuirl said:

If I had a critique it would be that I wish there were more of the shoulder pads, because they are rad.

Yeah I don't get this. Seems to be more than enough stuff equip 5 guys easily and the shoulder pads for.....2? Why?

[Etruscan]

5 hours ago, Nephaston said:

I don't know. To me the old praetors do the same thing as the new ones, offer a decorated, trimmed up officer. The old ones do it in an angular, utilitarian fashion, the new ones in sweeping and almost elegant one, like they would wear it for a parade. Both look more like they could represent different stages of the 200-ish years of the Great Crusade, less so the seven years of Heresy and neither is a universal fit for all legions (the old ones seem more WE, IW, DG, LW or pre-primarch legions to me while the new ones are a better fit for EC and BA, and neither of them being a good enough fit for Legions like SA, NL, SW, or AL.)

 

I also feel that the presentation of the minis with their respective paintjobs can't be discounted as the old ones were presented in a muted scheme utilising washes and grime and eschewing highlights beyond the necessary, while the new ones are the usual fare of bold 'eavy metal painting that absolutely has to show every detail by highlighting the highlights of the highlights. And as with any artistic medium it seems to be down to preference, like impressionism vs expressionism, or Art Deco vs Art Nouveau, or some other artsy fartsy terminology that I don't know.

 

In principle they offer the same thing ie. decorated officers but the execution could not be more different. It is easier to dress something up, rather than to dress it down, hence why in my humble opinion the older Praetors work better as generic Praetors. Weird additions like giant hollow swords just seems a bit too cartoony for me.

 

I've said all along it's just my preference, I'm simply not a fan of the encroaching aesthetic of more garish models with too much going on, along with oversized weapons.

 

I don't mean to grumble too much, because there have been some outstanding Heresy models from FW recently too. I guess it's the weird lack of relative continuity and quality that bothers me more than anything else.

 

 

[Doghouse]

It's ok, nothing spectacular. I think they could have just rolled this into the melee sprue release as one kit to be honest, it's the plastic equivalent of a generic forge world upgrade set.  

 

I'd rather they had just released a single standard bearer plastic mini because that's the only thing I'd buy that set for.

[Brother Captain Arkley]

What a total let down... 

[tinpact]

16 hours ago, Felix Antipodes said:

I wish they had shown the transfer sheet as well.  It sounds massive.

It'll probably be half sheet sized - for comparison the standard sheet has 352 transfers and the full sheets tend to have ~1000.

 

Hopefully it has some useful command symbols and isn't just SoH/Fists.