New Warhammer 40,000 Edition announced!

[Joe]

On the one hand, I'm glad to hear the rules are better positioned for the digital era.

 

It's just a shame this has all come at the expense of gutting narrative support to the bone and kowtowing to the overseas competitive community.

[Wibbling]

My son and I have followed the box and all the rumours and are in two minds over buying it. We've dozens of boxes of minis already and while I really like the standard bearers (on both sides) I'm not sure I'll buy it. The price sort of nailed it. That's the utility bill during the winter, after all. 

 

Instead we'll get some more tanks, as we both like tanks - and the new knight - for same reason. 

[Lord Marshal]

If anybody wants a sneaky-peak at Operation Imperator, Sprews & Brews does pretty much a full flick through of it. The new colour plates for some of the more obscure chapters is nice: 

 

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Lord Marshal

[DemonGSides]

Yeah $295 retail is bonkers.

High on their own supply.  I want the game to continue but I hope this sells poorly and wakes them up to the fact that they are toy company making toy soldiers out of plastic.

[Lord Marshal]

Core rules are now on WarCom.

 

Direct PDF link.

 

 

Edited 17 hours ago by Lord Marshal

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

12 hours ago, Antarius said:

I agree that it would be nice if terrain impacted movement, but you're really not doing your case any favours with this line of reasoning.
As Xenith has pointed out, the terrain kit for woods is literally three trees (and the old one was literally three trees on a base - just like all the homemade woods terrain basically is). No one has ever modelled woods as actual woods dense enough to do what their rules suggest(ed) they should do. After all, there has never been an edition where ruins terrain has impacted movement, but woods have not, so they're clearly intended to be a lot denser than depicted - or maybe they're supposed to represent a denser patch in a bigger area of woodland. And of course, noone has ever believed that models are frozen in the poses they are modelled in, so terrain rules, units and LOS are all abstractions by their very definition.

Now, would it be nice if the terrain rules were better? Probably, but if so, it's because they're not doing a good enough job of depicting what the concept of "ruins" or "woods" should do, not because they're not simulating the actual terrain kits closely enough (in which case we almost wouldn't need any terrain rules, as LOS would pretty much be the only effect terrain would be likely to have on 40K armies - and that's assuming they don't have more advanced targeting systems than their eyes and ears).

As for melee being unrealistically good, it has already been pointed out that it's supposed to be. But I think if we really get down to it, so is shooting. An autopistol wouldn't be able to damage a knight or a tank and in an actual, factual future that employed the kind of  technology 40K supposedly has, I don't think we'd see a lot of engagements where small arms fire at close range was even a thing, but it's an abstraction to make the game playable in the way the designers want it to. And that's just hitting power and targeting; we haven't even mentioned the ranges of weapons, which are obviously not intended to be literal either. Ranges, especially for tanks and artillery are completely off, compared to real life. Their engagement range in the game doesn't even match a modern rifle, so it's clearly abstracted to make ranges and manouevering matter on a playing area small enough that you can actually play on it.

 

As for the time something takes, well, movements and what units can do is clearly also abstractions to make the game fit the turn structure and playing area. The distances covered by units are laughably small, unless the whole game is supposed to represent at most a couple of minutes of fighting. Even so, units would still be able to pump out a lot more shots than they do in those few minutes. The reason, of course, is that the events portrayed are not literal, but abstractions. A unit of intercessors moving 6" and then shooting 4 shots each (a quite respectable amount of shots in the game, but very little compared to the rate of fire of actual automatic weapons) would take seconds, if those 6" inches of space only represented the 10 or so yards it would be if you take distances to be literal and an intercessor is supposed to be around 7 ft. tall.
Instead, the game is supposed to represent the ebb and flow of a much more protracted battle and so, time is very malleable and a turn must obviously be a non-fixed amount of time that represents lots of things happening other than just "move a couple of yards and shoot". In that sense, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to say that a unit can e.g. place some breaching charges or similar without "realism" being a problem.

But I still agree that it would be nice if terrain impacted movement, because I like terrain to do something.

Because most people particularly kids don’t know the word copse, or what a copse of trees means

 

again no one is thinking 3 trees is a literal forest or woods. Both words have actual definitions of X number of trees per Y area, and 3 trees in a few yards isn’t it.

 

however there is no specific definition of destruction that defines a ruined building.

we can look across multiple wars on going today, and historical wars, and see plenty of ruined buildings that are literally no more than corners, or L shapes with nothing but rubble where everything else is.

 

theyre not comparable situations.

Edited 13 hours ago by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Mogger351]

3 minutes ago, Lord Marshal said:

Core rules are now on WarCom.

 

Direct PDF link.

I'm more interested on getting my hands on the faction packs to be honest.

[redmapa]

7 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

I'm more interested on getting my hands on the faction packs to be honest.

 

Same, Im itching to see what detachments I can mix.

Edited 18 hours ago by redmapa

[Mogger351]

3 minutes ago, redmapa said:

 

Same, Im itching to see what detachments I can mix.

I'd wager it'll be a fair wait for them as it'll coincide with the app.

[01RTB01]

8 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

I'd wager it'll be a fair wait for them as it'll coincide with the app.

I'd wager it'll drop by or on release day of Armageddon otherwise we can't play.

[nodnol88]

Great to hear the thoughts of various sites and creators now the embargo is up. Almost all the revealed rules changes were good ones in my opinion, and I’m glad to see they’ve cleaned the rulebook up and the consensus seems to be positive on the whole now the full rules are out. 

 

 

[Mogger351]

18 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

I'd wager it'll drop by or on release day of Armageddon otherwise we can't play.

Well yes, obviously. But given there's likely errata to 75% of datasheets I can't see them releasing 50 page long faction packs of changes, nor printing them all out index style when the books are on sale still.

 

So they'll be tied to some degree to the app update, which isn't likely before release day.

[01RTB01]

13 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Well yes, obviously. But given there's likely errata to 75% of datasheets I can't see them releasing 50 page long faction packs of changes, nor printing them all out index style when the books are on sale still.

 

So they'll be tied to some degree to the app update, which isn't likely before release day.

I was just on about the detachments in reply to what you'd said.

 

Not sure why 75% of datasheets would need errata either?

[Craig]

55 minutes ago, Lord Marshal said:

Core rules are now on WarCom.

 

Direct PDF link.

 

 

Is this the full rulebook? 88 pages. The previous core rules PDFs were much smaller.

[Mogger351]

8 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

I was just on about the detachments in reply to what you'd said.

 

Not sure why 75% of datasheets would need errata either?

A lot of USRs have defined ranges now, a lot of "sweep" profiles will likely get blast. There will be wording changes around some rules that are now codified USR like surge moves, things that interact with core strats, deep strike and cover. Character interactions.

 

Lots of little changes.

[MoriyaSchism]

3 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

If anybody wants a sneaky-peak at Operation Imperator, Sprews & Brews does pretty much a full flick through of it. The new colour plates for some of the more obscure chapters is nice: 

 

 

I just watched his unboxing and noticed a few concerning things when he was unpacking the sprues. I saw strands of plastic flash, banged up corners and parts of the kits. I seriously hope this won't have the same quality assurance issues as the Titus command squad that came out recently. Sometimes I'm shocked by the damage out of the box you see with some GW kits. I've had it happen with multiple box sets I've bought, but it keeps me from ordering from third party retailers because GW's customer service tends to replace broken things when I email them. 

I've had this happen with my Age of Darkness, Leviathan and Indomitus boxes. 

[Joe]

Downside to the boxes being packed as densely as they are - and not being able to put in as much padding for green reasons.

[Emperor Ming]

Im more interested in the faq

[Petitioner's City]

6 hours ago, Joe said:

On the one hand, I'm glad to hear the rules are better positioned for the digital era.

 

It's just a shame this has all come at the expense of gutting narrative support to the bone and kowtowing to the overseas competitive community.

 

Thank you for sharing this - I was looking out for this in reviews, but not quite seeing it. Could you elaborate a wee bit more?

[Antarius]

4 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Because most people particularly kids don’t know the word copse, or what a copse of trees means

 

again no one is thinking 3 trees is a literal forest or woods. Both words have actual definitions of X number of trees per Y area, and 3 trees in a few yards isn’t it.

 

however there is no specific definition of destruction that defines a ruined building.

we can look across multiple wars on going today, and historical wars, and see plenty of ruined buildings that are literally more than corners, or L shapes with nothing but rubble where everything else is.

 

theyre not comparable situations.

You can say that, but the fact remains that there has not been an edition where ruins have slowed movement and woods have not. And of course they have also impacted LOS in ways like providing cover and not being able to see through the area. So rules-wise they have always been quite comparable and it's clearly never been intended to just be three trees and pretending otherwise is a bit silly.

Edited 14 hours ago by Antarius

[Bouargh]

3 hours ago, Craig said:

Is this the full rulebook? 88 pages. The previous core rules PDFs were much smaller.

 

Indeed, 60 for 10th AND it had more content - I was expecting the released free rules to include something like "muster your army" chapter and associated rules for detachments and... Nothing like that this time.  

Not even a single simple mission with illustrative purpose.  (again)

 

Just ref sending back to the App and/or to the mission packs. Should I be paranoid I would start thinking that it might indicate that some detachments could be bound to some mission packs only... This couldn't happen, right? 

Edited 13 hours ago by Bouargh

[MoriyaSchism]

2 hours ago, Joe said:

Downside to the boxes being packed as densely as they are - and not being able to put in as much padding for green reasons.

Hopefully this one will be a bit lighter with that small rulebook and the 88 page fluff book. 

Edited 13 hours ago by MoriyaSchism

[Emicus]

17 hours ago, Craig said:

Is this the full rulebook? 88 pages. The previous core rules PDFs were much smaller.

It does have a lot of gorgeous pictures, I’m sure some enterprising person will cut those out.

 

And the rules interaction, explanation, keywordization is deeeep. There’s three ways to disembark, two ways to pile in, a whole illustrated page to show how saves work.

Edited 22 minutes ago by Emicus