Valrak 2026 release rumours video

[MoriyaSchism]

23 minutes ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

Before Guilliman had a nap, he composed a Chapter structure that was flexible enough to be used across the Galaxy.

He thought big, he knew that in the vast distance of space there was no guarantee a Marine squad would have dedicated anti tank weapons units attached and available.

He left knowing that a single Lascannon could make all the difference. 

 

But when he awoke, the Rift had warped reality, now tanks have wounds like infantry, single Lascannons are a waste of time and the Galaxy had shrunk to only 4' ×5' .

 

So he adjusted his scope and Chapter structure from dealing with the entire Galaxy down to the size of a tabletop to suit the new reality.

He realized specialist units perform better in game than flexible ones, he no longer thought about the big picture, and focused on gameplay.

 

There's a not very hidden message there.

Just my 2c.

He should go back to sleep and Primaris Lieutenants should return to the spot where all Space Marine Lieutenants belong, the gunner seat on a Land Speeder. 

[Scribe]

48 minutes ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

Before Guilliman had a nap, he composed a Chapter structure that was flexible enough to be used across the Galaxy.

He thought big, he knew that in the vast distance of space there was no guarantee a Marine squad would have dedicated anti tank weapons units attached and available.

He left knowing that a single Lascannon could make all the difference. 

 

But when he awoke, the Rift had warped reality, now tanks have wounds like infantry, single Lascannons are a waste of time and the Galaxy had shrunk to only 4' ×5' .

 

So he adjusted his scope and Chapter structure from dealing with the entire Galaxy down to the size of a tabletop to suit the new reality.

He realized specialist units perform better in game than flexible ones, he no longer thought about the big picture, and focused on gameplay.

 

There's a not very hidden message there.

Just my 2c.

 

10 / 10

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, Mogger351 said:

Fixed it so well they had to double the shots and still considered a poor choice afaik?

They're considered a "poor choice" in that their only bigger weapon is an aux Grenade Launcher and that's partly why GW doubled the shots on a gun that shouldn't have had doubled shots to begin with. You give them a Special/Heavy Weapon along with that grenade launcher and suddenly things start to make more sense for the basic trooper. 

1 hour ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

Before Guilliman had a nap, he composed a Chapter structure that was flexible enough to be used across the Galaxy.

He thought big, he knew that in the vast distance of space there was no guarantee a Marine squad would have dedicated anti tank weapons units attached and available.

He left knowing that a single Lascannon could make all the difference. 

 

But when he awoke, the Rift had warped reality, now tanks have wounds like infantry, single Lascannons are a waste of time and the Galaxy had shrunk to only 4' ×5' .

 

So he adjusted his scope and Chapter structure from dealing with the entire Galaxy down to the size of a tabletop to suit the new reality.

He realized specialist units perform better in game than flexible ones, he no longer thought about the big picture, and focused on gameplay.

 

There's a not very hidden message there.

Just my 2c.

Single shots of weapons killing tanks on luck was always a bad mechanic, why Monstrous Creatures were always leagues ahead, and I'm glad that's gone. 

[HeadlessCross]

21 hours ago, Nephaston said:

 

Hellblasters + Desolators + Infernus => Support Intercessors

Infiltrators + Incursors + Reivers => Light Intercessors

 

This in turn will create enough space for a heavy assault intercessors squad of five gravis goobers with eviscerators, surely.

I'm fine with Reivers staying as their thing to some extent, but I don't like Incursors and Infiltrators being separate options. You should pay a premium wargear price (LOL) to use the anti 12" bubble or give the +1 to hit in shooting. 

[Evil Eye]

48 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

Single shots of weapons killing tanks on luck was always a bad mechanic, why Monstrous Creatures were always leagues ahead, and I'm glad that's gone. 

That is literally how tanks work though; generally speaking, a hit on a tank is very "binary" in that it'll either render the tank inoperable or bounce off harmlessly. I'd argue the old vehicle damage chart was actually quite granular in that you had a chance at destroying a weapon or immobilizing it without knocking it out completely, which certainly CAN happen IRL but is far less likely.

I do think walkers work better as monstrous creature parallels (even if I think they should have a distinction from actual monstrous creatures, so immune to poison but take double wounds from anti-tank weapons for instance) but actual vehicles should behave like vehicles. Giving them "healthbars" is one of the many ways 40K has become overly abstracted and lost its warfare-simulation roots.

[Mogger351]

8 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

They're considered a "poor choice" in that their only bigger weapon is an aux Grenade Launcher and that's partly why GW doubled the shots on a gun that shouldn't have had doubled shots to begin with. You give them a Special/Heavy Weapon along with that grenade launcher and suddenly things start to make more sense for the basic trooper. 

So what you're saying is the bolter guys go back to being ablative wounds for a special/heavy weapon?

 

That's fine, but I don't think they've solved the usefulness of a bolter at all, or they'd be worth taking under their own steam.

[Orange Knight]

The secret cabal has emerged once again.

 

1st they shook my perception of reality by arguing that the Attack Bike was actually a good model. I could no longer believe my own eyes.

 

Now they tell me that all problems in the world will be resolved if a single Intercessor could take a special weapons. If only I had known...

 

I am joking, but seriously guys. Some unit designs work better for a skirmish style game. It's not what 40k is now - the game has naturally evolved into a true war game. Individual unit customisation has been traded for more army customisation through specialist unit options. 

 

I think wider unit customisation does have a place... in something like Kill Team.

[MoriyaSchism]

18 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

The secret cabal has emerged once again.

 

1st they shook my perception of reality by arguing that the Attack Bike was actually a good model. I could no longer believe my own eyes.

 

Now they tell me that all problems in the world will be resolved if a single Intercessor could take a special weapons. If only I had known...

 

I am joking, but seriously guys. Some unit designs work better for a skirmish style game. It's not what 40k is now - the game has naturally evolved into a true war game. Individual unit customisation has been traded for more army customisation through specialist unit options. 

 

I think wider unit customisation does have a place... in something like Kill Team.

Options are still limited for Primaris even when they show up in Skirmish games like Kill Team when compared to their Heretic counterparts. I don't think a heavy bolter should be tied to the hip to extra armour plates of Gravis armour for example. I built both of my Imperial and Seccessionist kill teams using Chaos rules because they actually have gear from the old Codex organization for Tactical and Assault squads. 

 

I guess Primaris Assault Marines are like the guy from Kung Pow. "We have purposely trained him wrong, as a joke"

Edited May 1 by MoriyaSchism

[Orange Knight]

I agree with you, and that's the failure of Kill Team and the fact that GW don't make units entirely bespoke to it.

 

I still maintain that Kill Team, as a skirmish game, is the place for extensive unit customisation. Necromunda is probably a better example of how to do it.

Edited May 1 by Orange Knight

[Maritn]

14 hours ago, 01RTB01 said:

Winter fallschirmjager starter kit had tons as do basically any late war Germans. Maybe not the best example to pick.

 

Not 100% sure, but doesn't it boil down to SMGs/assault rifles (only difference is range), LMGs and Panzerfäuste? So basically 3 different options rules wise, even though you have different models for each, which is really, really cool.

[Evil Eye]

42 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I agree with you, and that's the failure of Kill Team and the fact that GW don't make units entirely bespoke to it.

 

I still maintain that Kill Team, as a skirmish game, is the place for extensive unit customisation. Necromunda is probably a better example of how to do it.

Kill Team should have more customizable units than 40K (the different types of plague weapons work for it but a generic plague weapon is fine for 40K), but Kill Team needs more customization options as it is. 40K is pathetically underserved with options.

[MoriyaSchism]

49 minutes ago, Maritn said:

 

Not 100% sure, but doesn't it boil down to SMGs/assault rifles (only difference is range), LMGs and Panzerfäuste? So basically 3 different options rules wise, even though you have different models for each, which is really, really cool.

The Waffen SS platoon comes with 5 different weapons, 7 if you count the pistol on the NCO and the panzerfaust. 

 

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

I agree with you, and that's the failure of Kill Team and the fact that GW don't make units entirely bespoke to it.

 

I still maintain that Kill Team, as a skirmish game, is the place for extensive unit customisation. Necromunda is probably a better example of how to do it.

It might be a failure of Warhammer 40,000 too. It all depends what they decide to do with 11th edition Intercessors. Perhaps the Tactical Squad can live on in Kill Team in the same way as the Chaos teams that were just the basic infantry box combined with an upgrade sprue. A Kill Team upgrade sprue for Assault Intercessors or regular Intercessors could fit all the options, but what happens when a hypothetical Kill Team Intercessor box gets cycled out with the current seasonal model? It's disappointing that Chaos kept its Kill Team upgrade sprue while Infiltrators lost theirs, there is no longer a way to build a Helix Adept for example. I liked the idea of the Judiciar and Helix Adept as representation of Chaplains and Apothecaries in training on the tabletop, but I digress. 

[phandaal]

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

The secret cabal has emerged once again.

 

1st they shook my perception of reality by arguing that the Attack Bike was actually a good model. I could no longer believe my own eyes.

 

Now they tell me that all problems in the world will be resolved if a single Intercessor could take a special weapons. If only I had known...

 

...You are surprised that people think fondly of Tactical Marines? One of the best-selling model kits in the history of wargaming? And you think people have been secretive about liking them?

 

That is certainly an approach. 

[Mogger351]

4 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

...You are surprised that people think fondly of Tactical Marines? One of the best-selling model kits in the history of wargaming? And you think people have been secretive about liking them?

 

That is certainly an approach. 

I think the issue is people seem to be thinking fondly of them as a 5 wound msu lascannon in some places.

[Orange Knight]

39 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

I think the issue is people seem to be thinking fondly of them as a 5 wound msu lascannon in some places.

 

This right here is what I'm talking about.

 

People have a very... slanted version of the reality during those past editions.

 

Even in the tail end of 7th edition, Tactical Marines were just extra wounds for the model carrying the Grav Cannon (I remember this well. I spent a fortune on Grav Cannons).

This wasn't some brilliant squad that showcased true narrative expression. It was disposable wounds for 1 gun.

 

Edit:

 

People have confused my criticism and opinion about the game design as another attack on old models - this is not the case in response to the Tactical squad. My initial post was push back against the talk of bringing back unnecessary special weapons. This is also something that can be done easily by narrative focused players in homebrew games (add 1 Hellblaster model to an Intercessor squad, or a Sternguard with a Heavy Bolter).

 

I also imagine that people could be further confused about me pushing back against narrative driven unit design when I've been criticising the excessive tournament focus of the game in prior topics.

40k should ideally be a balance between the two - both can create different types of problems.

 

Edited May 1 by Orange Knight

[jaxom]

I really like how Astartes the 12 minute animation shows how effective an Astartes with a bolter is. I think it also shows the environment where Space Marines best operate.
 

I always think of Tactical Squads like an American SWAT team. Rapid response within a sector, escalate to Company action if needed. Made sense for a “peace time” Imperium after the Scouring. Intercessors, Hellblasters, etc seem more like part of oversized platoons: rifle sections w/grenade launchers, support section, etc. They seem meant to be deployed together.

[Karhedron]

13 hours ago, Moonstalker said:

I agree, we're not currently in a game/codex that requires a tactical squad.  But I think there is an argument here for the squad providing some flexibility and ability to shore up a weakness in your army (whether momentary or from list building).  A single lascannon is not going to kill most vehicles these days, but it could be what pushes you over the hill for taking out a target that your dedicated AT squads didn't quite get enough damage on (whether because you didn't bring enough of them, they weren't in position, or they're dead).  This is not necessarily what Tactical Squads did, but it is something that they could do if given some room to breathe.

 

The other thing that makes the single lascannon less important is that 6s always wound. A squad of Intercessors will normally put at least 2 wounds on even the heaviest targets (before saves). This means that if our dedicated AT just fails to kill a target, we still have the chance to try and chip it to death with massed Bolter fire.

 

The comparison I like to consider is the Power Fist. Everyone takes one on an Intercessor Sergeant because it is free. Or rather, its cost is built into the squad. Its presence helps the squad a little in melee but would people prefer "naked" Intercessors if they were 15 points cheaper?

 

Even if Intercessors remained 80 points and could take a free Lascannon, I doubt people would run more than they take currently. People take Intercessors to sticky an Objective. Anything they accomplish beyond that is a bonus. For cheap bodies, people look to Scouts who are cheaper and can be pulled back into Reserves and redeployed. 

[jaxom]

24 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

People take Intercessors to sticky an Objective. Anything they accomplish beyond that is a bonus.

I love Intercessors and keep trying to make them work as best I can. Angelic Inheritors and Bastion are my favorite detachments.

[Mogger351]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

 

The comparison I like to consider is the Power Fist. Everyone takes one on an Intercessor Sergeant because it is free. Or rather, its cost is built into the squad. Its presence helps the squad a little in melee but would people prefer "naked" Intercessors if they were 15 points cheaper?

I think we both know a lot of people would say yes to this, then take the same unit anyway.

[Crimson Longinus]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

The comparison I like to consider is the Power Fist. Everyone takes one on an Intercessor Sergeant because it is free. Or rather, its cost is built into the squad. Its presence helps the squad a little in melee but would people prefer "naked" Intercessors if they were 15 points cheaper?

 

I'd prefer there to be a mechanical reason to take the other weapons. 

[Nephaston]

I usually get only one kit each so most of my intercessors are still from the starter sets before any of them even could take fists. Though, once I get around to building the actual multipart of foot assaults and jump assaults I'll probably do at least the jumpy one with a hammer.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

To be fair, the universe is gradually slowing down. When it's thermo-mechanical functions fail it will probably collapse in on itself. 

 

Thus rendering all human endeavour ultimately pointless. 

 

Just to put this lascannon argument into some sort of context. 

[Mogger351]

9 minutes ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

To be fair, the universe is gradually slowing down. When it's thermo-mechanical functions fail it will probably collapse in on itself. 

 

Thus rendering all human endeavour ultimately pointless. 

 

Just to put this lascannon argument into some sort of context. 

For a more immediate note we could all go outside and bask in the thermonuclear radiation of a star and feel the product of millions of years of evolution structuring carbon into a life form that generates energy and air from sunlight.

 

To that end I think were pretty far away from the original post and video. How do I get this reviewed for closure?

[phandaal]

3 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

I think the issue is people seem to be thinking fondly of them as a 5 wound msu lascannon in some places.

 

[Sad Rapier noises]

[01RTB01]

5 hours ago, Maritn said:

 

Not 100% sure, but doesn't it boil down to SMGs/assault rifles (only difference is range), LMGs and Panzerfäuste? So basically 3 different options rules wise, even though you have different models for each, which is really, really cool.

 

Rifles/ SMG/ Assault rifles/ LMGs and panzerfausts. Considering you can run 6 man squads there is a potential for great variety.

 

SMGs and assault rifles also do have differences bar range too.