Valrak 2026 release rumours video

[Orange Knight]

@Evil Eye

 

I just think it's odd that you have such an issue with a hover tank in a sci-fi setting whilst excusing another tank that would categorically not work in any setting, real or imaginary (which I also happen to love).

 

I brought up Repulsors on the basis of wanting some rule adjustments going into the new edition. I wasn't the one who started picking apart designs, lore or the look of models.

 

You think everything new is "rot," which is certainly a take. I suggest you look into something called "rosy retrospection" and I urge you to simply consider that the things that influenced you when you were young and impressionable aren't all objectively better than what is new.

 

Or you can write another essay about how it's bad.

 

Edit:

 

The blue = luck thing is absolutely a part of the setting, by the way. 

Edited yesterday at 04:37 PM by Orange Knight

[Evil Eye]

10 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I just think it's odd that you have such an issue with a hover tank in a sci-fi setting whilst excusing another tank that would categorically not work in any setting, real or imaginary (which I also happen to love).

Did you read a word I wrote?

11 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I brought up Repulsors on the basis of wanting some rule adjustments going into the new edition. I wasn't the one who started picking apart designs, lore or the look of models.

 

Bear in mind, my first post on the matter of the Repulsor was that giving it Fly was a bad idea because even aside from balance concerns, it doesn't work with the fluff of how it works (one novel of dubious quality notwithstanding).

13 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

You think everything new is rot, which is certainly a take. I suggest you look into something called "rosy retrospection" and I urge you to simply consider that the things that influenced you when you were young and impressionable aren't all objectively better than what is new.

 

Strawmanning. I do not think everything new is rot or that everything old is good. I think good things are good and bad things are bad. The fact a lot (not all) of new things are bad isn't because they're new, it's because they're bad.

14 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Or you can write another essay about how it's bad.

 

I will instead ask you how you would feel if you hadn't eaten breakfast this morning.

14 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

The blue = luck thing is absolutely a part of the setting, by the way. 

Orks thinking blue makes them lucky and "the Ultramarines are successful because Orks think blue is lucky and the Ultramarines are blue" are not the same.

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, Blindhamster said:

please dont take the fun factor of ork make believe actually working away form me. 

 

No one is taking it away, it's just that the concept is more than "Orks believe it so it happens." It is a very limited influence on reality for strong beliefs held by the Ork race, and then their tech working better than it should given its ramshackle design. To me, that is plenty fun enough. I think the fact that it can be questionable whether it is a real effect or just in their imagination, but in the end it doesn't matter because something happened, makes it a lot cooler and more entertaining.

As it relates to this discussion, the idea of "Things come true because Orks believe it" (untrue) "so why can't you accept whatever it written in the lore nowadays" is not a compelling one. I rate it down in the dumpster with similar nonsense from other franchises, like "Game of Thrones has dragons, so why can't a messenger pigeon fly the entire length of the continent and back in a couple of hours?" Expressing my honest opinion about that line of reasoning would not lead to anything within the bounds of this website's ToS. 

 

[Orange Knight]

Can you point to me where the lore outlines the limitations of the Ork belief?

 

Because they seem to have pretty wide and sweeping effects from my understanding over the past 30 years, and I imagine that as the Warp has been unleashed in the era Indomitus, those effects will all be amplified?

 

Another lore point is the power of religion and belief in 40k, and how that affects the Emperor and his servants. There are more Orks than humans, after all.

 

 

[phandaal]

6 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

Orks thinking blue makes them lucky and "the Ultramarines are successful because Orks think blue is lucky and the Ultramarines are blue" are not the same.

 

Bless you, sir, for engaging with this as if it was in any way written in good faith and will receive anything even approaching rational response. 

 

BTW, here is the answer to your other question:

 

Spoiler

"That doesn't make any sense. I did eat breakfast today." 

 

[Evil Eye]

No no, the burden of proof is on the one making outlandish claims. Where in the fluff does it say the Ultramarines' success is the result of the Orks associating blue with luck?

[Orange Knight]

I'm not claiming anything categorically. I'm saying it's a part of the official lore that you take so seriously. 

 

There's no way to measure the impact. All that's known is that the Orks can manifest things to happen when they amass.

 

And they believe blue is lucky, just as they believe red is faster, and yellow makes bigger explosions.

 

You're the ones stating that objectively it's not a thing. What you have exposed is also an inability to use the lore to have fun within the setting.

I love the idea of explaining the success of the Ultramarines to be in part due to the Ork beliefs about the colour blue because that's extremely entertaining and funny. 

 

The lore confirms humans can be affected by the Waagh, which means what the Orks believe can also have an effect on other factions within the setting. I'm not sure why this is causing grief - it's just fun.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 08:41 PM by Orange Knight

[Laurence]

12 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Can you point to me where the lore outlines the limitations of the Ork belief?

The Orks have not dominated the setting yet.  If their belief that they're the best were true, they'd have won by now.

Edited yesterday at 05:02 PM by Laurence

[phandaal]

11 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

Where in the fluff does it say the Ultramarines' success is the result of the Orks associating blue with luck?

 

I'll save you time: it doesn't say that anywhere in the lore.

 

2 minutes ago, Laurence said:

The Orks have not dominated the setting yet.  If their belief that they're the best were true, they'd have won by now.

 

There is also the fact that every description of Orky "powers" is the same and has been the same for decades. There are big WAAAAGH effects, sure, but those are also always described a certain way. It is not just one example, it is just the lore as it is always written, because that is how it works in the setting.

 

But again, none of this is being presented in good faith. It is being used to strawman something ridiculous, like this:

  

6 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

What you have exposed is also an inability to use the lore to have fun within the setting. I guess you guys are too serious to enjoy this aspect of the lore.

 

It is just bait, because he is upset that people didn't like something that he does like, namely Repulsors. I wouldn't engage with it directly.

Edited yesterday at 05:08 PM by phandaal

[Orange Knight]

3 minutes ago, Laurence said:

The Orks have not dominated the setting yet.  If their belief that they're the best were true, they'd have won by now.

 

The Orks are also extremely hard to organise or focus on anything.

 

It is stated that if they organised fully as a race they would conquer the galaxy.

[Evil Eye]

Just now, Orange Knight said:

I'm saying it's a part of the lore that you take so seriously. 

1: No, it isn't. There has never, at any point, been any link drawn between the Ultramarines' good fortune and Ork colour-folklore.

2: Of course I take it seriously. I love 40K, and I want it to be good. Being invested in something you like and being disappointed when it degrades is, y'know, normal?

 

But seeing as your entire argument hinges on "who cares, the fluff is dumb anyway, it doesn't have to make any sense lolololol" (which, amusingly enough, completely undermines your argument that the Repulsor needs more fluff-accurate rules) I think it's safe to say we can discount your opinions as bad-faith trolling from someone not even invested in the setting they're talking so authoritatively about.

 

Chaplain, take this wretch to the progenoid explosion chamber and have his progenoids exploded IMMEDIATELY!

[Orange Knight]

3 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

I'll save you time: it doesn't say that anywhere in the lore.

 

But the lore states that blue is lucky to the Orks, and the lore shows that Ork beliefs impact other factions.

 

You can take that information and have fun with it, or you can do the opposite.

[Cactus]

I think it's time to knock this line of discussion on the head. There aren't even any repulsors in the launch box!

[Maritn]

2 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

[...]

1: The aforementioned ground pressure. You're effectively exerting the full weight of the tank plus the downward thrust from the grav-plates on the ground below. [...]

 

 

If the resulting downforce would be weight force + some other force, the vehicle would move upwards. If the vehicle is keeping its altitude, the downforce would have to be equal to its weight force. But I'm tired already, so maybe my brain is not working properly anymore. 

 

And regarding driving over water, modern hovercraft can also drive over water. They do not have a rotor like a helicopter that creates lift but "glide" on a air cushion, AFAIK, so if they don't drown, a Repulsor might make it as well. 

[phandaal]

30 minutes ago, Maritn said:

And regarding driving over water, modern hovercraft can also drive over water. They do not have a rotor like a helicopter that creates lift but "glide" on a air cushion, AFAIK, so if they don't drown, a Repulsor might make it as well.

 

It comes down to which bit of lore you want to believe. Does it operate like a hovercraft (as the ability to fly over acid, lava, water etc would imply) or something else (which its ability to crush heretics would imply).

 

A person under a hovercraft would not get crushed by the air cushion the way a Repulsor supposedly crushes heretics with its own field, because the pressure at any given point of the air cushion is not that high. That means the Repulsor should be operating on a different principle than a hovercraft where it is actually pushing down significantly harder at any given point. That dispersed pressure is what allows a hovercraft to ride over water though, and apparently a Repulsor can also do that, but in such a way that it creates giant troughs like a boat hull minus the boat, which a hovercraft does not do.

 

Bottom line is, it is based on what the authors think is cool (i.e., the ability to change the repulsion field to do whatever makes it look cool in the scene), not on a given modern, real-world, functional engineering principle that we could argue over. 

 

Spoilering the rest:

Spoiler

21 minutes ago, Joe said:

"why are these same problem individuals persistently allowed to derail threads left, right and centre"

 

If memory serves, Ishagu got banned because he was contacting people directly with nasty messages, not for his posts. Likewise for Black Blow Fly on his main and whenever the admins get tired of not noticing his latest sock account - he did not actually get banned for what he posted in threads. Those other two were before my time.

 

Problem is, how do you decide who is causing the problems? Based on how some people have flat out told me how angry my posts make them I assume I would be on their list, whereas I might point out different people, and other people would point out a different group. And what would be considered derailing? Is it the first, semi on-topic post with a tangent that branches off to another set? Is it a post further down the chain? Is it when the branch turns into an argument?

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Time to bring out the orange (ironically enough).

 

This thread has largely devolved into personal bickering between two members, which has now been hidden as well as all other posts referring to such.  As both the members should be well aware, this is neither on topic nor appropriate for this forum.

 

Any further such and this thread will be locked.

 

Dr. R.

[jaxom]

I just want multipart Outriders with weapon options for the Sergeant to be confirmed.

[sitnam]

1 hour ago, jaxom said:

I just want multipart Outriders with weapon options for the Sergeant to be confirmed.

 

I'll always have a disdain for Space Marine bikers (GSC and Orks both do that theme way better), but that kit really is a travesty

[Orange Knight]

2 hours ago, jaxom said:

I just want multipart Outriders with weapon options for the Sergeant to be confirmed.

 

This HAS to exist, surely, but Valrak was saying that Repulsor bikes were a possibility.

Maybe GW Will pivot to those instead?

[Antarius]

Having read this discussion kinda makes me want to put tracks on my Land Speeder 

Seriously though, every vehicle in 40K is obviously based on rule of cool, but things still have to actually be cool to be cool. When something is described as being able to do everything and be better than everything else, it tends to just fall flat.

[Orange Knight]

47 minutes ago, Antarius said:

Having read this discussion kinda makes me want to put tracks on my Land Speeder 

Seriously though, every vehicle in 40K is obviously based on rule of cool, but things still have to actually be cool to be cool. When something is described as being able to do everything and be better than everything else, it tends to just fall flat.

 

I agree. Which is why you make the Landraider more durable and give it a larger transport capacity. 

 

It would have a different set of advantages.

[Evil Eye]

3 hours ago, Antarius said:

Having read this discussion kinda makes me want to put tracks on my Land Speeder 

Jokes aside, I had been working on a printable Invader counts-as that was basically an enclosed Astartes tankette. Didn't quite turn out how I wanted as I was a total novice at the time, but if it weren't for the rumours of the Invader's imminent retirement I'd be tempted to take another stab at the idea.

(I have no idea if this is a similar size to the actual Invader as I don't own it)

[phandaal]

57 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

Jokes aside, I had been working on a printable Invader counts-as that was basically an enclosed Astartes tankette. Didn't quite turn out how I wanted as I was a total novice at the time, but if it weren't for the rumours of the Invader's imminent retirement I'd be tempted to take another stab at the idea.

(I have no idea if this is a similar size to the actual Invader as I don't own it)

 

Funny enough, I have been painting up a couple of tracked vehicles for my new Marine army, including during this whole thread deal. Totally unrelated to any of the discussions here, I just like them.  Next vehicles will probably be a couple of speeders and maybe even a land raider. (Don't hold me to that... With my pace it could be 2030 before those get done.)

 

Anyway, I agree with the good gentleman @Mogger351. Not sure what this thread is even supposed to be about anymore. 

[Interrogator Stobz]

5 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

 

I agree. Which is why you make the Landraider more durable and give it a larger transport capacity. 

 

It would have a different set of advantages.

So, a Spartan. 

[Evil Eye]

I won't lie a 40K era Spartan/Land Raider Estate would be a cool idea, as long as it accompanied a refresh of the normal Land Raider and didn't replace it altogether. I'd be interested to see the "present day" Land Raider design language applied to the Spartan. Reminds me a bit of Offbeat Builds doing a great job of converting one into a 40K Land Raider...

 

(Personally I'm using a converted Proteus as my Chaos Land Raider; the stock LR falls awkwardly in size between the microscopically shorter Proteus and hair longer Spartan, but really it's not a big deal. Cool conversion anyway!)