Valrak 2026 release rumours video

[Mogger351]

36 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

Rules can change.  The role the Razorback fills in the lore is not the same as the Impulsor.

What, rapid deployment and fire support? They're really not that far removed.

[Nephaston]

For a laugh they could let a hypothetical new rhino/razorback transport transport Gravis units because they are just a teeny bit slimmer than Terminators.

 

Alternatively a new Razorback could hypothetically come with additional gun choices for the top mount; like a grav cannon, plasma cannon, pyrecannon, onslaught gatling, multi-melta. Or have a little interaction with command squads like the reclusiam command squad of yesteryear where an embarked  character gets to project their ability upon a friendly squad.

[SvenIronhand]

The Impulsor has nothing on the Razorback's AT capability tho.

[Robbienw]

57 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

What, rapid deployment and fire support? They're really not that far removed.

 

Razorback is far better for fire support, multiple heavy weapon options avaliable.  Serious anti-tank option.

 

Impulsor has weedy double heavy stubbers or an array of tiny missiles.  Or a little satellite dish 

[Mmmmm Napalm]

I believe heavy stubbers on SM vehicles/Dreadnoughts to be the work of the ruinous powers 

[Orange Knight]

50 minutes ago, SvenIronhand said:

The Impulsor has nothing on the Razorback's AT capability tho.

 

You mean the single Las Cannon shot? 

 

It's ok, but I value the additional number of shots and the open topped nature of the Impulsor because that unlocks a lot more firepower.

 

But I do also think that the Black Templar Impulsor is by far the best thanks to the unique Multi-Melta upgrade...

 

 

[Ammonius]

27 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

 

Razorback is far better for fire support, multiple heavy weapon options avaliable.  Serious anti-tank option.

 

Impulsor has weedy double heavy stubbers or an array of tiny missiles.  Or a little satellite dish 

I agree.

For my money, what's good about the Impulsor is that it's a pickup truck with a crew of marines hanging over the sides firing their plasma rifles. That it has some weapons of its own is a nicety.

I also like having grav and tracked vehicles because "my guys" are making use of what they have on hand.

[HeadlessCross]

32 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

 

Razorback is far better for fire support, multiple heavy weapon options avaliable.  Serious anti-tank option.

 

Impulsor has weedy double heavy stubbers or an array of tiny missiles.  Or a little satellite dish 

Serious anti-tank option? That's not a serious statement, is it? Just because it's the only Lascannon in a Grey Knights army doesn't make it a valid choice as anti-tank. 

[Mogger351]

30 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

 

Razorback is far better for fire support, multiple heavy weapon options avaliable.  Serious anti-tank option.

 

Impulsor has weedy double heavy stubbers or an array of tiny missiles.  Or a little satellite dish 

I mean "array of tiny missiles" fires frag, krak and anti-air. Alongside a heavy stubber and 2 stormbolters.

 

Conversely if you want dedicated anti-tank, the razorback isn't it. 

 

If anyone measures it purely via the lascannon then they need to top citing it's value in role and fluff.

 

Both vehicles are meant to be rapid transport and fire support vehicles, which they are.

[phandaal]

49 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

 

Razorback is far better for fire support, multiple heavy weapon options avaliable.  Serious anti-tank option.

 

Impulsor has weedy double heavy stubbers or an array of tiny missiles.  Or a little satellite dish 

 

Also, it is named after feral pigs. Can the Impulsor say that?

[Evil Eye]

For my money, the Razorback being smaller (and thus less of an obvious target), simpler to construct and having access to more potent support weapons distinguishes it from the Impulsor. Also being fully enclosed it provides better protection to its passengers. The Impulsor's focus seems to be on rapid insertion, getting a small squad to where they need to be as quickly as possible, facilitated by the open troop compartment and fairly light defensive armaments. The Razorback is more of a traditional IFV, acting as a force multiplier for the squad; traditionally, if you have a squad of Devastators with lascannons, you could have them ride in a Razorback with a lascannon turret, giving them mobility, protection AND extra firepower.

 

If we do get a new Razorback I would like to see more weapon options. Multi-melta, assault cannons and the return of las-plas please!

[Robbienw]

1 hour ago, HeadlessCross said:

Serious anti-tank option? That's not a serious statement, is it? Just because it's the only Lascannon in a Grey Knights army doesn't make it a valid choice as anti-tank. 

 

I’m obviously not referring to whatever it is at this current moment in fluid and abstract game terms.

 

In lore terms twin lascannon is obviously serious anti-tank.  Tiny missiles and stubbers, not so much

 

It’s an odd model as well, the open back end gives it an incomplete look.

[Robbienw]

1 hour ago, Mmmmm Napalm said:

I believe heavy stubbers on SM vehicles/Dreadnoughts to be the work of the ruinous powers 

I concur.  The most unnatural development of the whole Primaris Saga.  
 

I think they did it (and the circular backpack reactors) to give a visual tie to Mechanicus models, given the Mechanicus origins of the Primaris.  Heresy!

 

 

[Laurence]

Razorback just needs the return of lascannon/plasma combi-turret.  With the amount of nostalgic returns of late, we're overdue for that classic to come back.

[Ammonius]

5 minutes ago, Laurence said:

Razorback just needs the return of lascannon/plasma combi-turret.  With the amount of nostalgic returns of late, we're overdue for that classic to come back.

And the Twin Assault Cannons please.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, Nephaston said:

For a laugh they could let a hypothetical new rhino/razorback transport transport Gravis units because they are just a teeny bit slimmer than Terminators.

 

Alternatively a new Razorback could hypothetically come with additional gun choices for the top mount; like a grav cannon, plasma cannon, pyrecannon, onslaught gatling, multi-melta. Or have a little interaction with command squads like the reclusiam command squad of yesteryear where an embarked  character gets to project their ability upon a friendly squad.

I want the lascannons/plasma gun option back

 

57 minutes ago, Laurence said:

Razorback just needs the return of lascannon/plasma combi-turret.  With the amount of nostalgic returns of late, we're overdue for that classic to come back.

And that dope manned turret.

 

2 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

Serious anti-tank option? That's not a serious statement, is it? Just because it's the only Lascannon in a Grey Knights army doesn't make it a valid choice as anti-tank. 

TL LCs and an HKM seems like fairly decent AT punch for a transport to me, especially a transport in its size/class.

[sitnam]

49 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

In lore terms twin lascannon is obviously serious anti-tank.  Tiny missiles and stubbers, not so much

 

 

Krak isn't exactly insubstantial for anti-tank in the lore either

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

23 minutes ago, sitnam said:

 

Krak isn't exactly insubstantial for anti-tank in the lore either

And it’s still significantly worse than a lascannon, let alone 2 lascannons.

[Mogger351]

16 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

And it’s still significantly worse than a lascannon, let alone 2 lascannons.

So we come back to: was the main value of the razorback a lascannon? If yes, there are other units and options for that.

 

It just seems like a silly hair to split. It kinda reads as "oh I was desperate for a 6 man transport but it specifically needed a lascannon level anti-vehicle gun on a cheap chassis for... the lore... yes, to fit my narrative".

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

35 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

So we come back to: was the main value of the razorback a lascannon? If yes, there are other units and options for that.

 

It just seems like a silly hair to split. It kinda reads as "oh I was desperate for a 6 man transport but it specifically needed a lascannon level anti-vehicle gun on a cheap chassis for... the lore... yes, to fit my narrative".

The main value of the Razorback is its ability to use those lascannons to support the infantry it carries.

 

a combat squad of 4 marines with bolters and one with a missile launcher or a lascannon creates a significant AT threat that an impulsor simply doesn’t from both an in universe and in game perspective.

 

in game the krak missile gets 1 shot, S8 AP-2 Dd6

lascannon gets 1 shot S12 AP-3 Dd6+1 and rerolls wounds.

 

so both get the same number of shots but the lascannon has a much higher chance to have a successful wound roll, has a better chance of forcing a failed save, and will do more damage on average.

 

on top of that, the Razorback gets an HKM so you have a significantly higher AT threat out of the Razorback than the impulsor could hope for even on table top, and not just in lore.

Edited 13 hours ago by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[sitnam]

56 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

And it’s still significantly worse than a lascannon, let alone 2 lascannons.

, I never stated it was as good or better then a Lascannon. @Robbienw was talking about Lascannon being serious anti-tank in lore, I was simply arguing that krak missile could also be considered serious anti-tank dependant upon which lore you read.

 

I personally think Krak missiles are treated as a serious AT weapon like a IRL Javelin or TOW, but you if you wanted to argue they are closer in relative power to a Carl Gustav or RPG-7 (which makes them a bit more of a last resort and not a primary AT weapon), I don't think you'd be wrong either. Model wise, I feel the Cadian launchers evoke the feeling of heavier ATGM's then something like a RPG-7.

 

Now that I think about it, has there ever been a 40k mini to depict a M72 LAW-like.weapon?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

7 minutes ago, sitnam said:

, I never stated it was as good or better then a Lascannon. @Robbienw was talking about Lascannon being serious anti-tank in lore, I was simply arguing that krak missile could also be considered serious anti-tank dependant upon which lore you read.

 

I personally think Krak missiles are treated as a serious AT weapon like a IRL Javelin or TOW, but you if you wanted to argue they are closer in relative power to a Carl Gustav or RPG-7 (which makes them a bit more of a last resort and not a primary AT weapon), I don't think you'd be wrong either. Model wise, I feel the Cadian launchers evoke the feeling of heavier ATGM's then something like a RPG-7.

 

Now that I think about it, has there ever been a 40k mini to depict a M72 LAW-like.weapon?

My primary experience with kraks in lore has been with gaunt’s ghosts, and in that series they’re depicted more like a LAW/RPG equivalent.

 

and the S8 AP-2 does feel like that level of weapon imho.

if I were converting a javelin, TOW or equivalent to 40K it would have a profile that is the same as, or similar to the HKM.

 

and my interpretation of his posts on this subject was that he was saying the impulsor is basically the same thing as a Razorback because krak missiles are AT weapons. 

Edited 13 hours ago by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[sitnam]

@Inquisitor_Lensoven I never read GG, but  Krak does seem to vary in power levels. It does seem a bit closer to the lighter side of AT from most stories I recall, but the mini's remind me more of heavier stuff. 

 

I think a Hunter Killer is super hard to quantify. Those things are just massive compared to something like a Javelin. It seems closer to a damned Hellfire or Maverick TBH 

 

I haven't really followed the entirety of the Impulsor/Razorback debate, so correct me if I missed something: I think a Impulsor with a missile array is pretty much an IFV, irrelevant of whatever a Razorback could take instead. Just because a BMP-3 has a crazy amount of firepower (some would way too much for its role), doesn't make Marder or Bradley any less of an IFV. 

 

I don't really like Space Marines or their vehicles that much anymore, so I'm not really biased either way. When I was younger I definitely loved the Razorback, but nowadays I got plastic Immolators and Excorcists so which are the finest rhino-chassis vehicles ever designed

Edited 12 hours ago by sitnam

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, sitnam said:

@Inquisitor_Lensoven I never read GG, but  Krak does seem to vary in power levels. It does seem a bit closer to the lighter side of AT from most stories I recall, but the mini's remind me more of heavier stuff. 

 

I think a Hunter Killer is super hard to quantify. Those things are just massive compared to something like a Javelin. It seems closer to a damned Hellfire or Maverick TBH 

 

I haven't really followed the entirety of the Impulsor/Razorback debate, so correct me if I missed something: I think a Impulsor with a missile array is pretty much an IFV, irrelevant of whatever a Razorback could take instead. Just because a BMP-3 has a crazy amount of firepower (some would way too much for its role), doesn't make Marder or Bradley any less of an IFV. 

 

I don't really like Space Marines or their vehicles that much anymore, so I'm not really biased either way. When I was younger I definitely loved the Razorback, but nowadays I got plastic Immolators and Excorcists so which are the finest rhino-chassis vehicles ever designed

I mean they seem to be based on Bradley TOW missiles in concept, and other vehicle mounted ATGMs

going based on scale, is not the right way to go about it since vehicle weapons are horribly scaled. LRBT’s battle cannon appears to be like 8”+ in diameter but it’s officially like 155mm. Besides in 3rd edition the HKM I got for my vehicles was completely different had a box launcher, and looked more like a sidewinder missile than an ATGM.

(here’s an example if you’re unfamiliar 

)

 

I don’t think the impulsor is an IFV, especially if it has the shield array, rather than a turret weapon.

The missile array is the only weapon option that really could classify it as an IFV, rather than an APC.

the stubber turret definitely doesn’t make it count as an IFV.

Edited 11 hours ago by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Mogger351]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

My primary experience with kraks in lore has been with gaunt’s ghosts, and in that series they’re depicted more like a LAW/RPG equivalent.

 

and the S8 AP-2 does feel like that level of weapon imho.

if I were converting a javelin, TOW or equivalent to 40K it would have a profile that is the same as, or similar to the HKM.

 

and my interpretation of his posts on this subject was that he was saying the impulsor is basically the same thing as a Razorback because krak missiles are AT weapons. 

3rd-7th as a minimum the hunter killer was a krak missile.