Inquisitor Kravin Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Hmm, intriguing. The way I read it I thought that it meant that only cultists may carry icons but you're saying that Chosen may carry an icon so long as they don't use it to summon daemons! Edit: Checked my Codex and found the following: "...only cultists may carry icons..." and "Icons may not be carried by other units or bought as wargear by characters." This seems to me to pretty clearly prohibit use of any icon by Chosen, even if just for Fearlessness purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrim Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I think that reference is only to demon icons, as they're talking about the summoning of demons. Obviously the Icon of Undivided cant be used to summon demons, but since its a special icon I think Alpha Legion should be able to use it for fearlessness, however it IS wargear...hmmm I dunno.... :tu: (I've dropped that item from my list since V4 came around, fearless just isnt as good as it used to be. Plus infiltrate tends to scatter units all over the board, the Icon of Undivided just isnt worth it anymore) I am determined to make Terminators work in an Alpha Legion list, although I may have to wait until the FAQ comes out regarding them in V4 Akrim ~Serpent Company~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP13 Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 What do you need cleared up by a FAQ regarding Terminators in 4th? Not the non-issue of do chaos termis get to fire their combi-bolters AND still initiate an assault? Are there seriously people out there saying that Terminators can fire a heavy weapon normally mounted on a tank and assault, but not a bolter? People are funny, aren't they? Thankfully, I rarely encounter that level of "rules lawyering"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrim Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 Nah, I always assault after firing heavy and rapid weapons with my Termies. I want to know if they're going to always be able to assault like the Imperial Terminators. Terminators on foot is difficult, especially with lower numbers. I don't know if Chosen Terminators can be fit in at anything less than 1700pts (Reasonably). I also question if Terminator heavy weapons are even worth it, Reaper is 20pts for a gun that'll likely spend a good part of the game in reserve... Anybody have any winning combos with their Terminators? I found an Aspiring Terminator Champ with a power weapon to be a good one. Love those powerfists... :P Akrim ~Serpent Company~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP13 Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 Akrim: Sorry for jumping the gun there... But, I am still confused though: what specifically do you feel needs a FAQ/Clarification regarding Terminators and 4th edition? I'm missing something here, and I am curious! (edit) Re-reading your post I think I see it! You say: "I want to know if they're going to always be able to assault like the Imperial Terminators. Terminators on foot is difficult, especially with lower numbers. " Instead of assault, do you mean "always deepstrike"? If so, OK, I thought they "always" could, like their Imperial cousins... If it isn't clear, then yes, a FAQ would be nice! And, I've yet to field terminators, but it is interesting to see you pan the Reaper, as I was tempted to field it in a deepstriking squad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrim Posted December 25, 2004 Share Posted December 25, 2004 Er, yeah I meant always deep strike... :) The only time I found Termies on foot good was with the Icon of Undivided in non-infiltration missions (They'd be at the center of my Cultist horde). But in deep strike missions the Icon was worthless (Termies rarely lose in hth ;) ) I'd rather sink the points into a 6th terminator. I question the value of the Reaper autocannon for those termies, yes you can fire it on the move & assault, but if you're deep striking your Termies, it won't get fired much (2/3rds of the time with Alpha,Gamma,Omega randomized) Granted it does give you some anti-tank firepower, but usually my Terminators deep strike via Teleport Homer so they're usually in assault the turn after arrival (at which point the Reaper looks like the bayonet from hell! Y'know what I thought would've been a great rule is Terminators being able to shoot in the shooting phase even while in combat (but only at the squad they're in combat with) Even just for Chaos ones, how sweet would that be? Terminators stomping around, combi-bolter blazing in one hand, power fists/swords smashing the enemy down, sticking heads on trophy racks... ;) So what do you Alphas think about the combi-bolter/rapid fire rules? I say if they can fire heavy weapons and assault, surely they can fire combi-bolters. It doesnt really say they can nor cannot, so until somebody can stop me :rolleyes: , Im shooting and assaulting. (Id just like to have it all official in an FAQ for tourny purposes. Some people out there are choads.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krootman Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 I was was going to play a legion based on soly the rules it would be this 1...the best legion by far. (taticly challanging but good if you know what your doing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrim Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 OK, more to the topic here: -TACTICS- Infiltrate Needless to say, key for the legions success. 2/3rds of V4 missions allow it, and you forego wasting points on transports (or rolling steel coffins as they're known around here :rolleyes: ). Cultists Debatedly another key to Alpha Legion is Cultists. Cheap, may have Mark of Undivided. DEADLY on the charge due to high number of attacks/shots. Good for summoning Demons at key locations. Usually underestimated by enemies, Cultists are dangerous and hard to kill due to numbers. Cult Champions are a good upgrade for LD. Meltabombs are expensive but good for a one-trick pony. I usually use the Assassins skills for Cultists, small squads with Scouts skills and meltabombs arent bad (but theres only so many troops slots.). If you're using Cultists you really should use Demons, otherwise theres no real point in having them, besides assault screening. Infantry I think Alpha Legion should be played as an all infantry list, at least fluff-wise. I've found that a good solid Chaos infantry core can do well, by foregoing vehicles and transports you save enough points for those extra specialist units. Most missions the idea is simple, infiltrate into and advance on the enemy through cover can be effective if properly coordinated. I find that Cultists make excellent shock troops, pinning enemy squads in combat so that other crack units like Demons, Terminators and Raptors can be brought to bear on them. General Demon Princes are also argueably good choices for AL. While there are no advancing vehicles to hide behind, the DP is a good character killer and anti-tank machine. (Every one has their own kit load for DPs) DFlight is mandatory. Infiltrating Chaos Lords are good too. Cultist units are good places for characters as they infiltrate and benefit from the generals/lts leadership. Heavy Weapons As Alpha Legion rarely uses tanks, Havocs are usually the choice of AL commanders for heavy support, ACannons w/Tank Hunters and Missile Launchers are good for taking out armour and infantry. Despite being an Elite choice, Obliterators are good support troops too. Can be used as stand&shoot or deep strikers. Full Charge I've never found Alpha Legion to be effective on the defensive, without armoured support you must attack and annilhilate the enemy as you will lose a protracted combat. Don't cluster your squads but have them positioned as such that each can support the other if attacked. Try to maintain those 6' gaps between squads in case of overruns, deep strikes, ordnance, etc. Be suicidal with the Cultists, they're cheap and can afford to be sacrificed to protect your smaller elite units. feel free to add... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP13 Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 I'll be playing my Alpha Legion a bit different from that, as my interpretation of the fluff is that they don't spend all that much (if ANY) time in the Eye and as such will probably be the least mutated of any of the original Legions that went rogue. I'll be limiting modelling mutations to squad upgrades/champions/etc. 1x8-10 CSMs with BP and CC and melta and PF 1x10 CSMs in a rhino w/ Plasma Guns (the rapid deployment/drive by squad) I probably won't be taking ANY daemons. I will take at least 2x15 Cultists squads (assassins and/or scouts w/ meltabombs). I will have almost everything infiltrating (even if they don't "infiltrate" when allowed, being able to set up last is a major advantage, especially as you can counter your opponents setup). The jury is still out on HQ - either a lord and termi retinue or a DP. I figure that the upper echelon is where the most "chaotic" looking models will be. I'll be using mostly MK4 and MK5 ("Heresy") armor for the bulk of the troop models, and converted Cadian plastics for the cultisits. Prob. take a predator and a dreadnought (I have to, as I love the FW Alpha dread!)... We'll see how it works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrim Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Thats just the tactical doctrine I base my AL on, do whatever is available on the list because I think Alpha Legion is the hardest list to abuse of any of the Chaos chapters, and definitely the most challenging. I like that FW Dread too! I almost picked it up, but I've never seen Dreads do well. Lord and Termie retinue, hmm interesting idea. Thats a really expensive squad tho! :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP13 Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Akrim: Absolutely expensive! And, with the doubts you've cast on Reaper Autocannons and Deepstriking, I may be shying away from them anyway. An infiltrating lord with power armored retinue may be a better way to go... Again, I might be doing it anyway as I've made a termi lord conversion that I'm rather fond of... As for Dreads, well, they can certainly be fire magnets, but with mutated armor and/or possession they can be OK for a while. Plus, with all the infiltrators causing all sorts of havoc (and hopefully tying up some shooting!), it may last a little while... And hopefully the Predator takes some heat off too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrim Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Ive experimented with Terminators ALOT with my Alpha Legion. I love the models and the very concept/fluff of Chosen Terminators. I've been trying to make a Terminator squad that is inexpensive while at the same time remaining effective. I have had pretty good success in that in the 25+ games I've played with Alpha Legion I've only had my Terminators wiped out about 2 times. However I find that if the enemy is sufficently spread out it's hard for the Termies to earn their pay. And you have to be craeful; not exposing yourself to plasmas, lascannons and all the AP2 jazz. I definitely suggest using teleport homers. When I use Terminators I often give a TH to my Raptor champion or Demon Prince. That way they can beam down the Termie reinforcements behind them before they assault, and then the next turn they come in powerfists swingin. Deep strike is definitely a risk, which is why I take the teleport homer, that way you're guaranteed to land safely in cover and not in front of a Vindicator or lascannon battery. What I was thinking was why dont you use that cool Terminator lord as a Terminator Aspiring champ. I usually use one with my Terminators w/demonic strength, that gives him some nice power weapon attacks on the charge. Basically what it comes down to with Termies is how good you are at rolling those 5+ saves when things get rough. Im not bad at that... :P Its all skill trust me... :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IhateSpaceMarines Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 I'll be playing my Alpha Legion a bit different from that, as my interpretation of the fluff is that they don't spend all that much (if ANY) time in the Eye and as such will probably be the least mutated of any of the original Legions that went rogue. I'll be limiting modelling mutations to squad upgrades/champions/etc. 1x8-10 CSMs with BP and CC and melta and PF 1x10 CSMs in a rhino w/ Plasma Guns (the rapid deployment/drive by squad) I probably won't be taking ANY daemons. I will take at least 2x15 Cultists squads (assassins and/or scouts w/ meltabombs). I will have almost everything infiltrating (even if they don't "infiltrate" when allowed, being able to set up last is a major advantage, especially as you can counter your opponents setup). The jury is still out on HQ - either a lord and termi retinue or a DP. I figure that the upper echelon is where the most "chaotic" looking models will be. I'll be using mostly MK4 and MK5 ("Heresy") armor for the bulk of the troop models, and converted Cadian plastics for the cultisits. Prob. take a predator and a dreadnought (I have to, as I love the FW Alpha dread!)... We'll see how it works... heh my "Forgotten Ones" legion is a bit like yours with the no daemons. They were originally marooned on a planet when the Alpha legion was there and there was the captain and his company that were left behind because of a warp storm so they were trapped on the planet and thats where they got the curse have been in a warp storm that follows however one point the build a battle barge and escape then where ever they go the warp storm follows them and for thousands of years and everytime they get out of it, they find a planet or something and have battles and try to take over it however a warp storm always manages to appear once things are finally going good so once again they'll be in the warp storm heh. And they got hatred towards the chaos gods hench forth they dont use any daemons. I recon i'll right their story some time on the site so be prepared ! Anyway for my army I use absolutely no Daemons nor Daemon princes or any pskers stuff, no marks of chaos and well only daemonic gifts and weapons as they are needed. Just lots and lots of CSM with some havocs and i don't really use cultists cause it wouldn't fit with my fluff, Having cultists running around your battle barge....things will get irritating and they don't have long lives (right ?) like the CSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaosrudeboy Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Yeah! An AL forum. I've recently gotten back into 40k (having not played since back in the first edition days), and have started building an AL army. I wound up getting a bunch of older chaos marines and misc. models including a predator and rhino. After looking through this thread, no AL players use tanks, or terminators and I have both and I don't really have the funds right now to swap them out for more troops. Is it really against the fluff to use tanks, havocs, terminators, etc? That's my first question for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IhateSpaceMarines Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Its fine to have terminators , havocs and tanks. In my old army list i used a predator tank and i find that havocs are essential ! And also the fluff doesn't matter as their whole point was to infiltrate so i'm sure they'd use termis if the battles got too rough or something so its all fine . I posted a 1500 AL army list a while ago in the undivided section so if u want u can check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrim Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Thats not true rudeboy, some of us use Terminators and most of us use Havocs. The tank issue is irrelevant, if you have tanks and want to use them, by all means do it. Alpha Legion does make some use of armour (proven by the Rhino markings in the Index Astartes article.). Many Alpha Legion players however agree that AL is better as an infantry force, making maximum use of the infiltration skill. They are a force usually characterized by their stealth and deception tactics. Therein lies the argument that Alpha Legion armour is not unfluffy as the legions combat doctrine incourages innovative tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaosrudeboy Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Good advice Akrim. Here's another question. The CSM codex mentions how the AL likes to keep to themselves (i.e. not team up with other legions). Have you seen anyone playing a combined force of AL and some other troops like Berzerkers or B.Legion? I'm sure it's not totally out of the question, but I was curious if you've seen that around? I'm just about done with my army list. Still needs tweaking plus I'm limited by the models I have. I asked the above question because I bought the CSM battleforce that came with k.berzerkers, and I put them together without even thinking about trying to convert them. anyhow. I'll post my army list soon for critique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrim Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Well, Alpha Legion troops are only allowed to have the Mark of Chaos Undivided. So you cant have Black Legion or Khornate Berzerkers in your Alpha Legion. As far as the models are concerned, you could simply use your Berzerkers as Alpha Legion CSMs (just say they're Berzerkers who joined the Alpha Legion.) An infiltrating unit of assault equipped marines can be pretty deadly with the right character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Gabriel Angelos Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Here is my alpha legion list. Yesterday it beat the Ulthwé army of death (3 wraithlords, seer council, avatar, truckloads of guardians etc.) Lieutenant @ 101pts dark blade, bolt pistol, daemonic aura, infiltrate, daemonic resilience 12 Chaos Space Marines @ 208pts bolt pistols, ccws, aspiring champion with power fist, infiltrate 12 Chaos Space Marines @ 228pts bolters, 2 plasma guns, infiltrate aspiring champion with power fist, 12 Chaos Space Marines @ 228pts bolters, 2 plasma guns, infiltrate aspiring champion with power fist, 12 Chaos Space Marines @ 228pts bolters, 2 plasma guns, infiltrate aspiring champion with power fist, 6 Havocs @ 182pts 4 missile launchers, tank hunters, bolters 5 Havocs @ 165pts 4 autocannons, tank hunters, bolters Defiler @ 160pts Havoc Launcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrim Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Nice, I like that list... How many Wraithlords did the Havocs kill? (That Eldar list is disgusting! ^_^ ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Fallen_Azmodai Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 I dont play alpha legion... but im curious as to there rules so ill help out... im a good gatherer of information... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Gabriel Angelos Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 the havocs killed 2 out of three wraithlords, and then the cc marines (champ with power fist) killed the last. Also one aspiring champion killed a squad of 16 guardians by himself. At least I beat my opponent, as he has been crowing a lot about how "invincible" his army is. but yeah as far as AL tactics go its all about the infiltrate being 1 point, as you can easily have an all infitrating army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle Brother DarkLance Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Well, I tried posting my list in this forum and the army list one, but I didn't really get any feedback. So when I saw this I thought I could give it another try, and at least it won't get washed away by other topics :( . ~HQ~ Chaos Lord -Lightning Claws -Mutation -Aura -Strength -Spiky Bitz -MoCU -Infiltrate 150 pts. ~TROOPS~ 8 Chaos Space Marines -MoCU -Infiltrate -2 Meltaguns -Champion, Power Weapon, Strength, Mutation 186 pts. 10 Chaos Space Marines -MoCU -Infiltrate -2 Plasma Guns -Champion, Kai Gun, Power Weapon, Strength, Mutation 243 pts. 18 Assassins 108 pts. 20 Assassins -Melta Bombs 160 pts. ~HEAVY SUPPORT~ Predator -Twin Linked Lascannon -Lascannon Sponsoons -Extra Armor 150 pts. 999 pts. 57 Models (all Infiltrating) 1 Vehicle Well, I think the list is pretty straight forward. Infiltrate 57 models and overwhelm the enemy as fast as possible. The Chaos Lord will go around with the 8 man squad, and the Kai Gun squad will go after the tougher targets that I want to weaken before assault. If they can rapid fire first turn they put down 7 shots that ignore power armor, so they should be a fun unit :( . I'm not 100% sure on the Predator becuase I think I have enough anti-tank already for 1000 pts, but if I even don't get to infiltrate then it will help out a lot with it's range. Comments, criticism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrim Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Well, in my opinion... -40pts for melta-bombs with the Cultists? That makes them very expensive. -The Lord is easily get cranked by a powerfist or autokilled. Either go for a basic Lt (w/Darkblade or whatever) or give the Lord a D.Rune... other than that...good for a small battle force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle Brother DarkLance Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Well, the cultists with melta bombs ar also extremely dangerous. If my opponent has a tank that shoots orndnace either it has to move first turn and therfore not shoot or it is almost guaranteed to die from a huge amount of meltabombs (unless it's a skimmer, in which case it probably won't...). I have found that when I take a Lt. he dies way to fast because my rolling is usually terrible (hence the Spiky Bitz and LCs in 1k points, options I would normally never consider) and he never ends up earning his points back. However, giving him esscence means he take the rest of the options I like to put on him. Daemonic Rune is 35 points though, and I would rather take a chance of him getting plugged by a power fist then drop marines/cultist/weapons from other places in the list to accomadate Rune. In larger battles though I definatly will take tha into consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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