The Castigators

[LoneWolven]

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, didn't take the time to read the whole thread... but did the Sons of Korhal symbol from Starcraft inspire your chapters logo?

[Nash Trickster]

Just something that crossed my mind and that I thought I should share:

 

I don't really know why but when I think "Castigator+Librarian" the first image that comes to mind is that of the character Jorge de Burgos from the movie The Name of the Rose, a stern, blind elder... (And I can't help finding the fact that I imagine a blind character quite ironic since "blindness" is quite closely related to Astropaths in the 40k-verse. An irony which is IMO too good to pass...)

 

But it gave me an idea which could maybe be of use to you Mol: from what you said, the Zealots (at least) have only contempt for the position of Librarian. And I thus conclude that the Librarium would be almost free of their influence, which would IMO be a pity (for the history of the chapter would then be written almost only by "moderates"...)

Now, the fact that I can't help thinking about a blind character got me thinking "what if the Castigators appointed those brothers who are dimmed 'too diminished to be of real use on the battlefield' to the Librarium?" The elder, those who suffered wounds which limit they combat abilities, etc...

 

If it was so, then being appointed to the Librarium would be seen as a kind of "curse" for most Castigators, being put into a position usually occupied by witches seen as a stain on their honour, they'd rather have died in the battle that caused them the wound that led them to this position within the chapter, but it would make them even more zealous in their "screening duties"...

[Commissar Molotov]

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, didn't take the time to read the whole thread... but did the Sons of Korhal symbol from Starcraft inspire your chapters logo?

 

Thanks for the input. You don't need to read the whole thread if you don't want to; obviously I'd point you towards you to the IA article in the first post - hopefully it'll be interesting for you. As for the Chapter Badge, yes - the Sons of Korhal did inspire the badge, though they're not the same. You can see a comparison here:

 

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/Castigators/Castikorhal.png

 

:)

 

 

Just something that crossed my mind and that I thought I should share:

 

I don't really know why but when I think "Castigator+Librarian" the first image that comes to mind is that of the character Jorge de Burgos from the movie The Name of the Rose, a stern, blind elder... (And I can't help finding the fact that I imagine a blind character quite ironic since "blindness" is quite closely related to Astropaths in the 40k-verse. An irony which is IMO too good to pass...)

 

But it gave me an idea which could maybe be of use to you Mol: from what you said, the Zealots (at least) have only contempt for the position of Librarian. And I thus conclude that the Librarium would be almost free of their influence, which would IMO be a pity (for the history of the chapter would then be written almost only by "moderates"...)

Now, the fact that I can't help thinking about a blind character got me thinking "what if the Castigators appointed those brothers who are dimmed 'too diminished to be of real use on the battlefield' to the Librarium?" The elder, those who suffered wounds which limit they combat abilities, etc...

 

If it was so, then being appointed to the Librarium would be seen as a kind of "curse" for most Castigators, being put into a position usually occupied by witches seen as a stain on their honour, they'd rather have died in the battle that caused them the wound that led them to this position within the chapter, but it would make them even more zealous in their "screening duties"...

 

That in itself is really something that could prove the core for a Chapter of its own. Obviously I'm thankful for the suggestion but I can't jam every cool idea into the Castigators - it just wouldn't work. As mentioned by Zekk Sirius, the Zealots wouldn't have only hatred for the Librarians. Some of the more Conservative Zealots might have respect for the Librarians. I agree that there wouldn't be many zealots in the Librarium, but there might perhaps be one or two. Still, the moderates of the Chapter still hate mutants and the like - the Librarians are still zealots from an Imperial standpoint, but moderates from a Castigator standpoint. And I can see some of the older, crippled Castigators in the Librariam or elsewhere in the Master's household. Partly, my idea that every Brother served in the Librariam for a time was to try to alleviate some of the tensions, to try to stop the Librarians being too distant from the bulk of the Chapter (unlike the Techmarines), because every Brother would serve some time in the Librariam.

[Hasoroth]

A quick query, how do the Librarians of the Castigators detect and eliminate latent psykers?

[Commissar Molotov]

Well, until psykers are fact and not something the GW teams have invented, we won't know the minutiae. I can't say that X works infallibly, because I don't know if it would. However, as I only said a few posts up... :P

 

It's always been somewhat of a grey area. If we assume that there are very few psykers in the recruitment pool for the Castigators, the problem is greatly reduced. But aside from that, the Librarium would have to have certain pieces of equipment that would prove incredibly harmful for psykers. Items like the null rod/null field generator. Perhaps some of these items would have been donated by the Ordo Hereticus to ensure that the Chapter had some form of defence against the psyker. After all, I can't use Psychic Hoods... :P

 

As for eliminating them... well, killing is the business of the Space Marines... :)

[Hasoroth]

Bah, careful analysis of a thread isn't for the likes of my manly self (:D). Sorry about that, should have checked xD.

 

As for eliminating, how, I know the Castigators will do it, but from what I've read of GW fiction, sometimes a bolt to the head won't work.

[Darrell]

By any means necessary, is probably the answer. How they are eliminated isn't particularly important; a psyker is taken away and never seen again. Maybe they put a bolt through his head, maybe they throw him in the power generator, maybe they put him an air lock and fire him out into space. All that matters is they are purged from the Chapter for their mutation.

[Heru]

Well, until psykers are fact and not something the GW teams have invented, we won't know the minutiae. I can't say that X works infallibly, because I don't know if it would. However, as I only said a few posts up... :P

 

It's always been somewhat of a grey area. If we assume that there are very few psykers in the recruitment pool for the Castigators, the problem is greatly reduced. But aside from that, the Librarium would have to have certain pieces of equipment that would prove incredibly harmful for psykers. Items like the null rod/null field generator. Perhaps some of these items would have been donated by the Ordo Hereticus to ensure that the Chapter had some form of defence against the psyker. After all, I can't use Psychic Hoods... :huh:

Psi-tracker and Psyocculum, the latter being Witch finding eyepieces.

Edited June 16, 2008 by Heru Talon

[Commissar Molotov]

Quite.

[TyrantKaiser]

Indeed.

[Commissar Molotov]

Hrm.

 

Regardless, the answer is that the Librariam has a number of artefacts designed to root out the Psykers. Some of these might not be utilised on the battlefield, but others could, perhaps. Some of these would be ancient, rare and specialised items that might only be brought out in the most dire situations and the largest battles.

 

Those Mrines subjected to psychic strain and trauma would be forced to undergo a series of strict cleansing rituals to ensure that they are sound of body and mind and that the gene-seed's integrity is preserved. For a Chapter concerned with genetic purity, the perceived threat that psykers could damage the gene-seed is taken exceptionally seriously.

 

The Librarium itself would be an incredibly large structure within the Sanctuary. Its purpose is to house (and preserve) the Chapter's collected knowledge. As someone mentioned earlier, there would be dedicated Serfs that would work within the Librarium and have varying duties.* One of the duties of the Chapter's Librarians is to protect the Librarium. So part of that is ensuring that ancient documents aren't destroyed by age. I've mentioned before that certain Lexicaniums (and some trusted Serfs) would be assigned to copy texts in danger of being destroyed. I imagine the Librarium would also house the Chapter's main copy of the Codex Astartes, along with treatises and texts written by famous Castigators. In the Librarium, you can have the Chapter's greatest heroes next to each other - works by Baraquiel, or Lycidius, or Septimus, or Terentius.

 

 

 

 

* It occurs to me that the Chapter wouldn't necessarily need a constant influx of Serfs. To my mind, the Chapter has its own body of Serfs - male and female, who would live in their own 'quarter' on the Sanctuary - and the vessels of the Castigators' fleet. They would be able to breed and produce new Serfs - who could be indoctrinated from birth to give their lives in service to the Castigators. I was reading the Dark Heresy rulebook and it inspired me. The Serfs may perhaps be divided into castes - or be assigned to them. These castes could be varied, from the Scribes toiling in the Librarium to those that aid in the Apothecarion to the Artificers that help to maintain the Chapter's armour and equipment. Then there's the weapons crews, so on and so forth. I imagine that the Castes/Groupings would have their own traditions.

[Tyrannicide]

* It occurs to me that the Chapter wouldn't necessarily need a constant influx of Serfs. To my mind, the Chapter has its own body of Serfs - male and female, who would live in their own 'quarter' on the Sanctuary - and the vessels of the Castigators' fleet. They would be able to breed and produce new Serfs - who could be indoctrinated from birth to give their lives in service to the Castigators. I was reading the Dark Heresy rulebook and it inspired me. The Serfs may perhaps be divided into castes - or be assigned to them. These castes could be varied, from the Scribes toiling in the Librarium to those that aid in the Apothecarion to the Artificers that help to maintain the Chapter's armour and equipment. Then there's the weapons crews, so on and so forth. I imagine that the Castes/Groupings would have their own traditions.

That's an excellent picture, looking into a Chapter serf's life. Then there would also be serfs that aid the Chapter Master, correct? This would be quite an honor for a serf if so, possibly the highest ranking in the castes one could achieve?

[Ferrus Manus]

That's an excellent picture, looking into a Chapter serf's life. Then there would also be serfs that aid the Chapter Master, correct? This would be quite an honor for a serf if so, possibly the highest ranking in the castes one could achieve?

 

There would probably be serfs that aid all the captains, putting their armour on them, fetching weapons and brother-marines etc...

 

I expect there would be other lower caste serfs that would perform this duty for regular marines.

[Darrell]

I think it has a lot of potential. Showcasing a bit of the serfs shows how much work it takes to run a Chapter and, while too many details would bore just about anyone, it would hint at the empire within the Castigators that the serfs run.

 

You could have a large administration of serfs running things, overseeing the needs of the Chapter and the needs of the serfs themselves. Serfs changing positions, new serfs needing to be appointed, handling the more mundane affairs of the Chapter as it goes on campaign. It's like a miniature version of the Imperium's bureaucracy; scaled down, but still dizzying in its complexity. I was wondering what the relationship between the Castigators and serfs may be like, but the idea of a serf-run empire within the Chapter might lead the Castigators to ignore the mortals amongst them for the most part. I'm sure most of the marines would get dizzy every time they think about the sheer amount of paperwork flying by.

 

I like the concept of different groups of serfs handling different sections within the Chapter have varying types of rituals. It allows for a lot of potential superstitious, gothic ceremonies that are one of my favorite aspects of 40K fluff. Appeasing the spirits of the cafeteria machines looks completely different from appeasing the massive fleet guns, but both are equally complex and important to their respective guardians. If you go with a caste system, I could see some groups who have served the various Captains or Chapter Masters down through the centuries. Something like a family of butlers who have loyally served the office down through the ages.

 

Just one more aspect of the Castigators background that gives them such feeling and depth. The Chapter itself, its history, the Losancan mutant hunters, the serfs and how all of them are tied together under one banner (Though, under that banner are many different groups with different ideals; zealots and moderates, hunters who cross to the day side and protectors of the settlements in the twilight, the different sections of the castes. It mimics the Imperium in a lot of ways, showing the face of a flawless monolith whose insides are riddled with cracks and divides).

[The Fabricator General]

Love the idea of the serf Mol and looking into their background would add a huge extra layer to the Castigators. But oh dear what alot of work you've just made for yourself. ;)

[Commissar Molotov]

Since when have I taken the easy road? ;) Haha. It's just part of my neverending quest to complete the Castigators. :)

 

Don't worry, I'll stop when I'm satisfied! ;)

[Tyrannicide]

Something that's been a bit of a commotion on the boards lately has been the new Space Marine Codex release. In general I'd like to focus on the new Veteran cadres of the First Company, the Sternguard and the Vanguard. So any ideas as to how these would integrate into the Castigators Chapter?

[Commissar Molotov]

I'm not sure if they will, necessarily. I mean, I guess I'm going to utilise the new Vanguard models, which necessitates the use of Veteran Assault Squads. Yet I'm not sure I like the use of "Vanguard" and "Sternguard" - for the Castigators, at least. I'd want to look at new names. I mean I might just go with "Veteran Squads" and "Veteran Assault Squads".

 

The Castigators' First Company is divided into twelve squads - four five-man Terminator Squads and eight ten-man Veteran Squads. So I suppose the most simplistic option would be to have four each of Terminator/Veteran/Veteran Assault and be done with it. Perhaps it's down to the particular tastes of the First-Captain at the time. Hrm.

 

 

 

Another random thing that occured to me whilst looking through Imperial Armour #2 is that it might prove fruitful to name the Forgeworld closest to Losanco, so I can have "[Forgeworld]-Pattern [item]s".

[Tyrannicide]

Yeah, I can see the Castigators utilizing different names for the respective Veteran squads. I think incorporating the themes of the light and dark sides of Losanco, could prove useful.

 

The bit on a Forgeworld is especially interesting, would have to figure a name out, possibly some brief history of the planet. :tu:

[Commissar Molotov]

I'm not sure about giving them specific names. I'm actually somewhat thinking of not giving them a particular name. The light/dark paradigm has merit, but I'm not sure about the potential application, so I think I might leave that.

[brother varen]

Greetings brothers,

 

Mol, like the idea on the chapter serfs. Now i have another modeling project after the 2nd company. ;) What types of armour do the Castigators have? Maybe give a percentage? Trying to work out how to make the Castigators stand out the way you perceive them. Still looking into the diffrent bits i'll need and how to get them since GW doesn't sell bits anymore. ;)

 

I'll be ordering the battle company soon, but am wondering if this is a bad idea since 5th edition is coming. What do you think? Then i'll be waiting for 5th edition for other miniatures. Then there is ForgeWorld products. Just so many things....

 

How is everyone's Castigators coming? Mol, did you get my Pm with the questions?

[Commissar Molotov]

Greetings brothers,

How is everyone's Castigators coming? Mol, did you get my Pm with the questions?

 

Actually, I had, though I'd somewhat forgotten about it. I have put this together, which might prove useful. Perhaps if you post your ideas here I can give my thoughts - as can people like Darth Potato.

 

As to the armour, I don't think it matters too much. However, I'm somewhat dubious about you making a whole Company of Castigators. I'm always keen for people to focus themselves on their own ideas. Sure, make an army of Castigators - but a Company?

Edited June 18, 2008 by Commissar Molotov

[ToyShip]

I love your serf ideas Mol! Dont forget about them being the ones repelling boarders during fleet actions and such, there wouldnt always be Castigators onboard to attack/defend in a fleet battle. I assume you read the part about the Misericord as inspiration then? :P I think it would be interesting for a glimpse at the extremely complex workings of the Serfs, as stated before. You wouldn't necessarily need to name every rank and that sort of thing, but some hints would be neat, IMHO.

 

Two cents,

ToyShip

[Commissar Molotov]

I forgot you were one of the lucky few to get your hands on a DH rulebook, too. And yes, the Misericord was definitely part of my thinking - that bit about the Lamplighter's Guild and the Followers of the Wire fighting over who is allowed to change the ship's glowbulbs was a delight to read. Some of their bizarre traditions, the paper masks and the like, are very interesting too.

 

Of course, you're absolutely right - they would be a large proportion of the Castigators' fleet. I actually thought those on the ships would be somewhat seperate, elitist, from those on the Sanctuary. Whether I follow up on that I don't know. I do think the image of Serfs in carapace armour and with Shotguns repelling a boarding action, every now and then a Space Marine leading them, is a great image. Would be easy to replicate with Inquisitorial stormtroopers, too.

 

--

 

In other news, I've been reading Imperial Armour 2 and thinking about the Techmarines and the Master of the Forge - thoughts that came about after discussing the Forgeworld. I have a few quotes that'll help you with my line of thinking.

 

Each Space Marine Chapter is an independent, self-sufficient force which provides its own fighting forces and weapons of war from the Chapter forges. For the most part, these are constructed by Techmarines and servitors under the watchful eye of the Chapter's Master of the Forge, but for some Chapters, the largest vehicles must come from the Adeptus Mechanicus. Some Forge Worlds, bound to supply Space Marine Chapters by ancient charters and mutual oaths of service to the Imperium do manufacture Rhinos, Land Raiders and Thunderhawk Gunships.

 

Interesting, the idea that some Forges wouldn't be large or extensive enough to construct every vehicle a Chapter would need. I read a quote which said that Thunderhawk Gunships require vast manpower to construct, so they might be a candidate for construction on a Forgeworld.

 

"The Chapter forges are also capable of making one-off vehicles for special operations or environments, such as siege equipment. This is a prospect that would appal any Tech-Priest, but the Adeptus Mechanicus have no power to intervene or dictate what happens within the walls of a Chapter Fortress-Monastery"

 

Again, interesting. I'm not one of these people that needs to create a billion different vehicles to give my Chapter character, but I really like the idea that Techmarines are perhaps slightly more pragmatic than Techpriests. Just what they need for me to really hook into their concept.

 

Although each Chapter has its own traditions and rituals of construction they follow a broadly similar pattern.

 

This is a key quote for me - the idea that different Techmarines from different Chapters would do things in a different way. I had the thought that the Master of the Forge in the Castigators would be influenced by Castigator doctrine. Just as the Castigators care about the purity of gene-seed, the Techmarine would be wanting to ensure the purity, the stability and durability of the vehicles he constructs.

 

Each Techmarine serves an apprenticeship on a forgeworld as part of their training; some even travel to Mars to learn from the master Tech-magi.

 

This is something I've never known before - I was under the impression that all Techmarines went to Mars. The idea that Techmarines travel to the closest Forge World is an interesting one. It opens up the idea that perhaps those judged to be the most talented and adept by the Master of the Forge are permitted to travel to Mars.

[ToyShip]

A quick thought:

This is something I've never known before - I was under the impression that all Techmarines went to Mars. The idea that Techmarines travel to the closest Forge World is an interesting one. It opens up the idea that perhaps those judged to be the most talented and adept by the Master of the Forge are permitted to travel to Mars.

 

So that being said, if a Chapter was based near to say, Rhyza, a forgeworld known for its plasma technology, then the Techmarines may be better at building and repairing such things? Interesting indeed. That would lead me to think that it would be a cool idea to explain where the Castigators send their techmarines, what Forgeworld to be precise, and what, if any, specialties does aforesaid Forgeworld have?

 

Just a random thought

 

ToyShip