The Castigators

[Commissar Molotov]

So that being said, if a Chapter was based near to say, Rhyza, a forgeworld known for its plasma technology, then the Techmarines may be better at building and repairing such things? Interesting indeed. That would lead me to think that it would be a cool idea to explain where the Castigators send their techmarines, what Forgeworld to be precise, and what, if any, specialties does aforesaid Forgeworld have?

 

I suppose you could make an argument along those lines - a Chapter based near Ryza would have a higher proportion of plasma weapons (because that's what Ryza churns out of its forges) and Techmarines that trained there would be able to maintain such weapons to a higher standard than other Chapters.

 

So it could be interesting to know what the local Forgeworld does. Hrm... I did come up with a name for its Titan Legion - the Legio Lux (Lightbringers). Because if a titan doesn't stand out enough, we'll paint it WHITE! :)

 

Crazy AdMech Bastards... :o

[Nash Trickster]

Ancient pacts sworn between the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Adeptus Astartes allow the Space Marines to send a proportion of their warriors to Mars to train with the Adeptus Mechanicus and begin the long, arduous journey of becoming a priest of the Machine God.

The Index Astartes seems pretty clear about where Techmarines undergo their training in the ways of the Machine...

 

However, after a period of "basic training", they could be sent to a closer Forge-World to finish their training...

[Commissar Molotov]

Ancient pacts sworn between the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Adeptus Astartes allow the Space Marines to send a proportion of their warriors to Mars to train with the Adeptus Mechanicus and begin the long, arduous journey of becoming a priest of the Machine God.

The Index Astartes seems pretty clear about where Techmarines undergo their training in the ways of the Machine...

 

However, after a period of "basic training", they could be sent to a closer Forge-World to finish their training...

 

Certainly, Nash - I agree. I've always been under the impression that Techmarines had to actually travel to Mars. Yet the Imperial Armour fluff is interesting in its own way. So I guess it depends which I choose to utilise. I figure I'd take the best of both worlds by having the majority of the Castigators' Techmarines trained at the local Forge World, with the most promising candidates being sent all the way to Mars itself.

[brother varen]

Mol, have you decided on what technology the Castigators will lean towards? Do the Castigators deal with all 3 divions of the =I=? Did you have info or pics on the 2nd company Chaplain? You stated that you have already created him. Is Captain Caphius the oldest in the chapter besides the dreadnoughts? How many dreadnoughts does each company have in your opinion?

[ToyShip]

Mol, have you decided on what technology the Castigators will lean towards? Do the Castigators deal with all 3 divions of the =I=? Did you have info or pics on the 2nd company Chaplain? You stated that you have already created him. Is Captain Caphius the oldest in the chapter besides the dreadnoughts? How many dreadnoughts does each company have in your opinion?

 

Honestly Brother, I dont think that the Castigators should lean towards any certain technologies, per se. A Forge World could produce anything from the mighty Titan to the arcane Oscillating Toothbrush (Made Up). The point is, how likely would it be for the Castigators to be stationed near a Forge World that fits a particular technological slot useful to them? I mean that would be a little too coincidental if you ask me, but then you didnt, you asked Molotov, but I think he would agree.

 

I do believe that were you to look in Molotovs article in the first post of this thread, it will tell you all you need to know about their dealings with the Inquisition:

The Castigators have influential allies that allow them to continue unmolested; some traditional and puritan Inquisitors have gone so far as to openly applaud the Castigators, seeing their actions as those of the truly faithful. The chapter has worked in concert with puritan elements of the Emperor's Inquisition on several occasions throughout its history. It is not uncommon for such Inquisitors to work with militant cults in the Imperium such as the Redemptionists to create frenzied mobs and stir up hatred, intolerance and xenophobia amongst planetary populations. These beliefs are similar to those of the Castigators, and this has lead to them aiding such cults at the urging of an Inquisitor.

 

That's in the beliefs section ^_^ . I would assume that they would work with both Hereticus and Xenos Ordos, the more likely being Hereticus. I say this because of their attention to purity and hatred of the Mutant. They would most likely not work alongside Ordo Malleus, because of the fact that they have the Grey Knights.... :tu:. And i'm sure a brother or two would be sent to the Deathwatch of the Ordo Xenos.

 

And finally, why do you need to know how many dreadnoughts each company has? GW fluff states, if i'm not mistaken that the Ancients are considered a part of the Chapter's Armory, distributed amongst the companies in times of need. Dreadnought Sarcophagi are extremely rare and temper-mental, and it takes considerable time and resources to awaken just one. That said Dreadnoughts do take to the battlefield, I just don't see it happening with every battle.

 

 

I hope I shed some light on your questions without sounding snooty, and Mol, I hope I didn't overstep my bounds by replying to Brother Varen.

 

;)

[Barret]

According to Insignium Astartes, as well as other sources like the Chapter org chart in Codex: Space Marines, Dreadnoughts are indeed an assigned part of companies, especially the Battle Companies. This is according to the Codex, at least. Chapters with differing doctrines or beliefs around the Dreadnoughts might have different practices, or a Chapter with very few Dreadnought sarcophagi might concentrate them within the 1st Company, the Armoury, or not assign them to a Company at all.

 

What this means in the Castigators is, of course, up to Molly. :P

[ToyShip]

According to Insignium Astartes, as well as other sources like the Chapter org chart in Codex: Space Marines, Dreadnoughts are indeed an assigned part of companies, especially the Battle Companies. This is according to the Codex, at least. Chapters with differing doctrines or beliefs around the Dreadnoughts might have different practices, or a Chapter with very few Dreadnought sarcophagi might concentrate them within the 1st Company, the Armoury, or not assign them to a Company at all.

 

I stand corrected. :P

[Commissar Molotov]

Mol, have you decided on what technology the Castigators will lean towards? Do the Castigators deal with all 3 divions of the =I=? Did you have info or pics on the 2nd company Chaplain? You stated that you have already created him. Is Captain Caphius the oldest in the chapter besides the dreadnoughts? How many dreadnoughts does each company have in your opinion?

 

- I don't know what you mean by "what technology the Castigators will lean towards." - if you mean the Forgeworld discussion, that was mostly Toyship bringing up a seperate but related topic. The Castigators aren't going to be hugely influenced by a particular Forgeworld, I just want to name said Forgeworld at some stage.

- Yes, the Castigators do deal with all three branches of the Inquisition, to varying degrees. They obviously get on far better with those of a Puritan/Traditionalist stripe - Monodominants would get on with them far better than others, perhaps.

- The design of the Second Company Chaplain is up to Aerion the Faithful. Nicodemus is his character. Aerion's my friend, so he gets to do what he wants.

- Caphius is the oldest of the Captains, yes.

- Dreadnoughts? Well, perhaps three at most.

 

According to Insignium Astartes, as well as other sources like the Chapter org chart in Codex: Space Marines, Dreadnoughts are indeed an assigned part of companies, especially the Battle Companies. This is according to the Codex, at least. Chapters with differing doctrines or beliefs around the Dreadnoughts might have different practices, or a Chapter with very few Dreadnought sarcophagi might concentrate them within the 1st Company, the Armoury, or not assign them to a Company at all.

 

What this means in the Castigators is, of course, up to Molly. :P

 

Dreadnoughts would indeed be an assigned part of Companies, unlike vehicles such as Vindicators, Whirlwinds and the like, which would be assigned as needed by the Master of the Forge. There's an interesting quote in Imperial Armour 2 which suggests the Master of the Forge could well have the final say - after all, it's his role to safeguard the vehicles:

 

Turning a basic Rhino into a Vindicator is a long process, and each Vindicator is a valuable asset to the Chapter. They are seldom committed to battle unless the Master of the Forge is convinced their specialised firepower is required.

 

The Castigators don't have differing doctrines around Dreadnoughts. They don't even use more dreadnoughts than other orthodox Chapters. The key I tried to convey in the article is that they value the wisdom and insight of these Venerable Warriors.

[Commissar Molotov]

More work on the Castigators.

 

I've been working on two things recently: This draft includes details on all the Castigators' various Companies. I've not quite collated all my notes, and it doesn't include the Librarium, Forge, Reclusiam, Apothecarion or the Master's Household.

 

I've also been working on this timeline which features notes on many of the Castigators' most famous campaigns throughout their history. I've been stymied on this somewhat because of the lack of a definitive date for the fourteenth founding. As a result, all the dates take place after the Age of Apostasy. Still, it's helped me work out a lot of issues regarding the Castigators' organisation and how many of the Companies and Captains have interacted. It's not finished in the least, but it's been a fruitful endeavour.

 

I've also been discussing with Tiberius the idea of creating an 'Imperial Armour'-styled book featuring the Castigators and the Space Sharks during the three year-long 'War of Woe'. If that comes to fruition I'll keep you updated.

 

-----

 

Talking of the Forge, I chatted with Fabricator-General recently, and we'd decided to name the Castigators' Master of the Forge 'Atellus'. I like the idea of the Castigators' doctrine being shifted to encompass vehicles and the like. Only the purest machine-spirits, etc.

 

I'm curious now about the Castigators' Chief Librarian. And it interests me that I've not actually approached the Apothecaries yet.

 

As ever, more work! :)

[Tyrannicide]

Well what would you like to see in the Chief Librarian, any specifics? (Personality, wargear, personal history)

[The Fabricator General]

This idea just popped into my head so feel free to shoot it down as its really not thought out. How about the chief librarian no longer being a combatant and looking similar to the images of the imperial scribes with mechanicle limbs for writing.

 

Kinda a cross between this

 

http://demonwinner.free.fr/uk/2000/UK%202000%20open%201%20Mark%20Bedford.jpg

 

and this

 

http://warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40354&d=1212606906

Edited July 1, 2008 by The Fabricator General

[Commissar Molotov]

This idea just popped into my head so feel free to shoot it down as its really not thought out...

 

It's an interesting idea, though. The Castigators' Librarians have a number of themes and ideals inherent within their character. So it's key, I guess, to expose some of that in their 'Leader'. Hrm. The Librarians gather the history of the Chapter, they provide a defence against psykers... And yes, I can see that the Castigators' Librarians would be different to other Chapters. Because mine don't have super-awesome-psychic-powers-of-doom to enhance their combat potential, you might argue that you'd see the Chief Librarian on the field of battle far less. He'd be involved with documenting and cataloguing and the like.

[The Fabricator General]

I would think that the chief librarian would be loath to leave his 'ward' in the hands of less experianced librarians.

[Commissar Molotov]

Hrm...

 

This is from Psykana Librarius, one of my favourite Marine articles of recent years:

 

The Librarium of the Chapter is typically an ancient and immense structure, housing the collective knowledge that the Chapter has acquired over the millennia. Scribes work ceaselessly within its walls, labouring to duplicate the older texts as they are gradually destroyed by time. The Librarians of the Chapter are charged with the upkeep of the Librarium, and it is their responsibility to maintain its integrity. Only they know the full wonders and horrors that are contained within the ancient vellum pages, deeds both heroic and heinous.

 

Thousand year-old tomes, bound in cracked and faded leather, sit side by side with newer works in an immense and ever expanding collection. Indeed, the Librarium is often enlarged as time passes in order for it to be able to house the perpetually increasing number of volumes held within. Imperial envoys tell fantastical stories of the rare and ancient arcane technologies that reside within a Librarium's hallowed walls, great humming data repositories that store unfathomable amounts of information. The Librarium will often include an archaic catalogue containing countless data crystals, each crystal holding a lifetime of accumulated wisdom. Many Librariums contain a smaller inner Librarius, where the most dangerous and heretical texts are kept. This area is accessible to only a select few of the Chapter's Chief Librarians, as befits the dangerous and blasphemous nature of the texts. Merely glancing at the twisted pages of these dangerous volumes would send most men spiralling deep into insanity, and they can only be viewed under the most controlled conditions and with careful preparations of the mind.

 

I imagine this would be the province of the Castigators' Librarians. Though there's also this quote from Index Astartes: Relictors:

 

ew emissaries are known to have returned from the fortress, but those few that survive speak of a monastery wreathed in perpetual gloom, where acolytes toil within locked cells to transcribe ancient, some say forbidden, texts as part of their training to become a brother of the Chapter. One such report, recounted by the notorious Heretic Archivist of the Gethsemane Reclusium, tells of the existence of a chamber deep within the fortress, sealed behind stasis fields and protected by the most severe of wards. Exactly what is held within this chamber is unknown, but the account speaks of a miasma of evil that leaks through the metre-thick adamantium blast doors despite the safeguards. The Heretic Archivist's writings suggest that the original witness was driven insane by what he saw, and died a slow, painful death within the torture chambers of the Ordo Malleus.

 

So you could make the claim that steadfast and loyal Chapters like the Ultramarines would maintain an archive where heretical texts are kept? That just adds to the way that Librarians are held with suspicion. Of course, consideration needs to be given to the fact that the Castigators don't have psychically-gifted Librarians. With that said, I like the idea of artefacts taken from enemies. All the various Company Chapels would have relics and trophies. Captured banners, cracked suits of armour, etc, etc.

 

I do like the idea that Senior Librarians within the Castigators would have certain anti-psyker artefacts at their disposal. Null-rods, psy-trackers, psy-occula, Null Field Generators, things like that.

[Imperial Knight]

As promised Mol here is the first look at a few of the Nid hunter task force Castigators, sorry for poor pic quality but had to use my cell camera. I will try to take better ones and post them later. I free-handed the badge as per your advice, not perfect but I am working on it.

[Colrouphobic]

What's the colourschemes the Castigators follow? Codex? I'm thinking for Librarians, Techmarines, Apothecarians etc etc...

 

 

You used to have something about that up, but it's not in the first post of this topic :/

[krieger haggoroth]

Hey Mol, long time no talk!

 

I'm not sure i like the whole "war trophies" thing. Particularly in the case of Chaos, but even with the foul xenos, I'd imagine that there would be a lot of superstition of taint within a chapter like the Castigators. Would these relics and trophies be warded/guarded in some way?

 

As far as the anti-psyker tech, I know there was at least SOME discussion of blanks/blunts/untouchables within the chapter. Perhaps null-psychic field creating serfs are brought into battle with the castigators? This seems to me like it COULD fit into the Castigators "feel". To see what I'm sorta talking about look to the end of "Only in Death" by Dan Abnett. Without giving anything away, the Imperial Guard transport large numbers of sanctioned psykers onto the field in convoys reminiscent of slave caravans. Perhaps the castigators have a similar routine with blunts?

 

Just throwing some ideas out there. I'm in the middle of nowhere at the ruins of troy doing research, so i've got all day to hash ideas out!

[Heru]

As far as the anti-psyker tech, I know there was at least SOME discussion of blanks/blunts/untouchables within the chapter. Perhaps null-psychic field creating serfs are brought into battle with the castigators? This seems to me like it COULD fit into the Castigators "feel". To see what I'm sorta talking about look to the end of "Only in Death" by Dan Abnett. Without giving anything away, the Imperial Guard transport large numbers of sanctioned psykers onto the field in convoys reminiscent of slave caravans. Perhaps the castigators have a similar routine with blunts?

Doubt it, the Castigators hate mutants more than anything else, and those with the Pariah gene are just as much mutants as Psykers.

[Commissar Molotov]

As promised Mol here is the first look at a few of the Nid hunter task force Castigators, sorry for poor pic quality but had to use my cell camera. I will try to take better ones and post them later. I free-handed the badge as per your advice, not perfect but I am working on it.

Nice to hear from you. :o Shame your picture's not too clear! I think I see some of the Chaos Lightning Claws? That's intriguing. The Chapter badge looks good, too! Looking forward to better pictures.

What's the colourschemes the Castigators follow? Codex? I'm thinking for Librarians, Techmarines, Apothecarians etc etc...

You used to have something about that up, but it's not in the first post of this topic :/

Mhmm. I follow the third edition markings, mostly. I don't believe that Librarians, Techmarines, Apothecaries and Chaplains should be in Chapter colours (aside from the shoulderpad marking them as Castigators.) As a result Chaplains are black, Apothecaries are white, Techmarines are red (though some Castigators fluff has depicted some of them wearing black robes to hide their augmentations) and Librarians are blue with a yellow sash marking their standing within the Apothecarion.

(Nice to hear from you, Col!)

Hey Mol, long time no talk!

I'm not sure i like the whole "war trophies" thing. Particularly in the case of Chaos, but even with the foul xenos, I'd imagine that there would be a lot of superstition of taint within a chapter like the Castigators. Would these relics and trophies be warded/guarded in some way?

As far as the anti-psyker tech, I know there was at least SOME discussion of blanks/blunts/untouchables within the chapter. Perhaps null-psychic field creating serfs are brought into battle with the castigators? This seems to me like it COULD fit into the Castigators "feel". To see what I'm sorta talking about look to the end of "Only in Death" by Dan Abnett. Without giving anything away, the Imperial Guard transport large numbers of sanctioned psykers onto the field in convoys reminiscent of slave caravans. Perhaps the castigators have a similar routine with blunts?

Just throwing some ideas out there. I'm in the middle of nowhere at the ruins of troy doing research, so i've got all day to hash ideas out!

Nice to hear from you. Always good to hear from a familiar face with a useful opinion. :) Of course, I disagree with that opinion in part, but that's what opinions are for. The "war trophies" thing is something integral to the Astartes, I think. Even Chapters like the Ultramarines do it. They would keep suits of armour, the skulls of vaunted enemies, etc, etc. Within the Castigators you could see it as something to do with them proving their superiority over their foes. Something like that? I don't see it as being difficult to reconcile or justify. It's only when you get to Chaos relics that you have to start looking into "wards" and the like. Things like Daemon-weapons would obviously not be countenanced, but I think that taking relics from Chaos forces isn't a bad thing.

With regards to Pariahs, I have to side with Heru Talon here. Pariahs are mutants! Everyone in the 40k fan-base seems to tout them as the saviours of man-kind. I think they should be kept away from the Astartes, definitely. This is taken from the Inquisitor archives on specialist-games:

...the psychic null known to Imperial scholars as a Pariah, an affliction that affects only a handful of children across the whole galaxy in each generation. Most humans have a corresponding presence in the parallel dimension known as the Warp. This 'soul', for want of a better term, can be seen and attacked by psychically attuned creatures such as Daemons or Enslavers, and also by psykers of different races that inhabit the material universe. A psychic null does not have this presence in the Warp, or if they do it is so well shielded or hidden as to be invisible.

This renders the null all but invulnerable to any form of psychic attack or power, for such attacks actually affect a creature's presence in the Warp (or their soul, if you will) rather than their physical body. This ability also makes the null nearly invisible to creatures that normally inhabit the Warp, as they 'see' the Warp rather than the material plane... A Daemon will therefore only be dimly aware of the presence of a psychic null, and will only be able to attack them by guessing where they are from the actions that they carry out.

Such a power is extremely valuable, but is not without serious drawbacks. Many never know the benefits of the power that they bear, but they will be all too horribly aware of the effect it has on normal people, as being a Pariah sets the person apart from the rest of Humanity. All humans are able to sense very slightly the presence in the Warp of those people around them. Most are unaware of this ability or attribute it to other things (such as 'being a good judge of character'). However everyone is able to do it, which makes being confronted by a Pariah an unsettling experience.

The Pariah seems human, but their lack of presence in the Warp renders them alien or different to the rest of the race they belong to. It dooms the Pariah to a life of solitude and rejection.

Pariahs have been portrayed differently in certain 40k literature, but the fact remains that being confronted by one is a deeply unsettling experience. Consider that Space Marines are very literally a 'band of brothers', and that Pariahs would be deeply dangerous for a Space Marine Chapter. Losing your concentration in a vital moment, finding yourself unsettled and hostile for no reason, being unable to act normally around a brother... there would be deep, deep downsides to having an untouchable in the Chapter.

Also, consider that the Imperium has a use for Pariahs. They're converted into the formidable Culexus Assassins, designed to penetrate into enemy lines and destroy enemy psykers utterly. Imagine a Chapter trying to recruit a Pariah, only to find that the Inquisition and the Officio Assassinorum had other plans? Not many Chapters could refuse.

Either way, it seems that the Inquisition is able to 'manufacture' that null field through technology. Though sure, the idea of a Pariah chained into some arcane device that's draining him dry of his energy would be awesomely dark and twisted, the Castigators can make do with the 'ordinary' version. (Even if batteries aren't included.)

[Commissar Molotov]

Painful experiences today - I had a first go with my new Castigators army (my first games in fifth edition) - and ended up getting mauled quite badly. I played a Biel-Tan Eldar list in a kill-point game - I had been annihilated by the fourth turn, though I took a moral victory in killing the Farseer. Then I had a close draw in a kill-point game against Deffskull Lootas. Not glorious at all, though I've found using the Dark Angels Codex at small points levels to be incredibly restrictive. The new Marine Codex should be very useful indeed. I also had a chance to look at my LGS's Black Reach box-set recently, and I found that very useful. I'm now dead-set on converting the Captain within to be Caphius, most likely using the power-fist-and-helmet from the Master of the Chapters box.

 

In other news, I'm still working on Castigators fluff, and I hope to have a website to show you guys soon. :D

[Tyrannicide]

Sounds good Mol. Personally I find the Dark Angels Codex to be inflexible and restrictive if the player doesn't choose to use the Deathwing or Ravenwing to their advantage. It sounds like you didn't select either of the two, so I can understand how hard it must of been. You'll have to snap a couple of quick shots next time and make a battle-report! :o

[Ferrus Manus]

Pretty good Mol, can't wait to see the site. Shame about being a bit mauled. But I find that armies like marines are a bit disadvantaged against mob armies like Orks in the kill point mission simple because there's less of them to kill.

[The Fabricator General]

I feel your pain Mol. I too have played a couple of games of the new edition in the last couple of weeks. Both against the eldar, the first was a complete drubbing but I too took consolation in smashing the farseers face in with a power fist. The second game went smother with me wiping out the whole force bar the avatar which was tearing its way through my assault sqaud untill I realised that I didn't need 6's to hit and wound.

[krieger haggoroth]

Hey, we can't all be good at everything B)

 

Still looking forward to a website!

[Commissar Molotov]

I feel your pain Mol. I too have played a couple of games of the new edition in the last couple of weeks. Both against the eldar, the first was a complete drubbing but I too took consolation in smashing the farseers face in with a power fist. The second game went smother with me wiping out the whole force bar the avatar which was tearing its way through my assault sqaud untill I realised that I didn't need 6's to hit and wound.

 

I took a list with two Tactical Squads (Fifteen Marines in total), a Jump-Packing Chaplain and a Whirlwind. I've discovered that losing my Whirlwind early on leaves me incredibly vulnerable. Though with that said, I'm enjoying utilising the Jump-Packs so much that an Assault Squad is a definite certainty. Today I played a game against Tau - a hard-fought draw where I was completely subjugated throughout. It certainly left a bitter taste in my mouth. In 500 points I had fifteen Marines, a Chaplain and a Whirlwind, whilst the Tau player had a Shas'el, two Fire Warrior Squads, a Pathfinder Squad in Devilfish, a Piranha and three Stealth Suits. I ended the game with an immobilised, weapon-destroyed Whirlwind and two Space Marines, whilst he still had three Pathfinders, a Piranha, his Shas'el, nine (of twelve) Fire Warriors and his Stealth Suits. So I killed three Fire Warriors and a Devilfish.

 

Not the Castigators' finest hour, I fear. The only highlight was managing to destroy a Devilfish with a plasma gun.

 

Lemme know how your Castigators get on - looking forward to more pics when you get a chance. :geek:

 

Pretty good Mol, can't wait to see the site. Shame about being a bit mauled. But I find that armies like marines are a bit disadvantaged against mob armies like Orks in the kill point mission simple because there's less of them to kill.

 

Well, you could look at it the other way - Marines have fewer kill points to give away - things like the 3+ save certainly make up for fewer bodies on the table.

 

In more Liber-related matters, I'm continuing to refine my fluff, and I'm keen to know if people want to see more (or less) of something in particular, so I know what to write about. Also, if anyone knows anyone who can help me out with website design, let me know!

Edited August 3, 2008 by Commissar Molotov