The Castigators

[TyrantKaiser]

Indeed.

[Commissar Molotov]

Hrm.

 

Regardless, the answer is that the Librariam has a number of artefacts designed to root out the Psykers. Some of these might not be utilised on the battlefield, but others could, perhaps. Some of these would be ancient, rare and specialised items that might only be brought out in the most dire situations and the largest battles.

 

Those Mrines subjected to psychic strain and trauma would be forced to undergo a series of strict cleansing rituals to ensure that they are sound of body and mind and that the gene-seed's integrity is preserved. For a Chapter concerned with genetic purity, the perceived threat that psykers could damage the gene-seed is taken exceptionally seriously.

 

The Librarium itself would be an incredibly large structure within the Sanctuary. Its purpose is to house (and preserve) the Chapter's collected knowledge. As someone mentioned earlier, there would be dedicated Serfs that would work within the Librarium and have varying duties.* One of the duties of the Chapter's Librarians is to protect the Librarium. So part of that is ensuring that ancient documents aren't destroyed by age. I've mentioned before that certain Lexicaniums (and some trusted Serfs) would be assigned to copy texts in danger of being destroyed. I imagine the Librarium would also house the Chapter's main copy of the Codex Astartes, along with treatises and texts written by famous Castigators. In the Librarium, you can have the Chapter's greatest heroes next to each other - works by Baraquiel, or Lycidius, or Septimus, or Terentius.

 

 

 

 

* It occurs to me that the Chapter wouldn't necessarily need a constant influx of Serfs. To my mind, the Chapter has its own body of Serfs - male and female, who would live in their own 'quarter' on the Sanctuary - and the vessels of the Castigators' fleet. They would be able to breed and produce new Serfs - who could be indoctrinated from birth to give their lives in service to the Castigators. I was reading the Dark Heresy rulebook and it inspired me. The Serfs may perhaps be divided into castes - or be assigned to them. These castes could be varied, from the Scribes toiling in the Librarium to those that aid in the Apothecarion to the Artificers that help to maintain the Chapter's armour and equipment. Then there's the weapons crews, so on and so forth. I imagine that the Castes/Groupings would have their own traditions.

[Tyrannicide]

* It occurs to me that the Chapter wouldn't necessarily need a constant influx of Serfs. To my mind, the Chapter has its own body of Serfs - male and female, who would live in their own 'quarter' on the Sanctuary - and the vessels of the Castigators' fleet. They would be able to breed and produce new Serfs - who could be indoctrinated from birth to give their lives in service to the Castigators. I was reading the Dark Heresy rulebook and it inspired me. The Serfs may perhaps be divided into castes - or be assigned to them. These castes could be varied, from the Scribes toiling in the Librarium to those that aid in the Apothecarion to the Artificers that help to maintain the Chapter's armour and equipment. Then there's the weapons crews, so on and so forth. I imagine that the Castes/Groupings would have their own traditions.

That's an excellent picture, looking into a Chapter serf's life. Then there would also be serfs that aid the Chapter Master, correct? This would be quite an honor for a serf if so, possibly the highest ranking in the castes one could achieve?

[Ferrus Manus]

That's an excellent picture, looking into a Chapter serf's life. Then there would also be serfs that aid the Chapter Master, correct? This would be quite an honor for a serf if so, possibly the highest ranking in the castes one could achieve?

 

There would probably be serfs that aid all the captains, putting their armour on them, fetching weapons and brother-marines etc...

 

I expect there would be other lower caste serfs that would perform this duty for regular marines.

[Darrell]

I think it has a lot of potential. Showcasing a bit of the serfs shows how much work it takes to run a Chapter and, while too many details would bore just about anyone, it would hint at the empire within the Castigators that the serfs run.

 

You could have a large administration of serfs running things, overseeing the needs of the Chapter and the needs of the serfs themselves. Serfs changing positions, new serfs needing to be appointed, handling the more mundane affairs of the Chapter as it goes on campaign. It's like a miniature version of the Imperium's bureaucracy; scaled down, but still dizzying in its complexity. I was wondering what the relationship between the Castigators and serfs may be like, but the idea of a serf-run empire within the Chapter might lead the Castigators to ignore the mortals amongst them for the most part. I'm sure most of the marines would get dizzy every time they think about the sheer amount of paperwork flying by.

 

I like the concept of different groups of serfs handling different sections within the Chapter have varying types of rituals. It allows for a lot of potential superstitious, gothic ceremonies that are one of my favorite aspects of 40K fluff. Appeasing the spirits of the cafeteria machines looks completely different from appeasing the massive fleet guns, but both are equally complex and important to their respective guardians. If you go with a caste system, I could see some groups who have served the various Captains or Chapter Masters down through the centuries. Something like a family of butlers who have loyally served the office down through the ages.

 

Just one more aspect of the Castigators background that gives them such feeling and depth. The Chapter itself, its history, the Losancan mutant hunters, the serfs and how all of them are tied together under one banner (Though, under that banner are many different groups with different ideals; zealots and moderates, hunters who cross to the day side and protectors of the settlements in the twilight, the different sections of the castes. It mimics the Imperium in a lot of ways, showing the face of a flawless monolith whose insides are riddled with cracks and divides).

[The Fabricator General]

Love the idea of the serf Mol and looking into their background would add a huge extra layer to the Castigators. But oh dear what alot of work you've just made for yourself. ;)

[Commissar Molotov]

Since when have I taken the easy road? ;) Haha. It's just part of my neverending quest to complete the Castigators. :)

 

Don't worry, I'll stop when I'm satisfied! ;)

[Tyrannicide]

Something that's been a bit of a commotion on the boards lately has been the new Space Marine Codex release. In general I'd like to focus on the new Veteran cadres of the First Company, the Sternguard and the Vanguard. So any ideas as to how these would integrate into the Castigators Chapter?

[Commissar Molotov]

I'm not sure if they will, necessarily. I mean, I guess I'm going to utilise the new Vanguard models, which necessitates the use of Veteran Assault Squads. Yet I'm not sure I like the use of "Vanguard" and "Sternguard" - for the Castigators, at least. I'd want to look at new names. I mean I might just go with "Veteran Squads" and "Veteran Assault Squads".

 

The Castigators' First Company is divided into twelve squads - four five-man Terminator Squads and eight ten-man Veteran Squads. So I suppose the most simplistic option would be to have four each of Terminator/Veteran/Veteran Assault and be done with it. Perhaps it's down to the particular tastes of the First-Captain at the time. Hrm.

 

 

 

Another random thing that occured to me whilst looking through Imperial Armour #2 is that it might prove fruitful to name the Forgeworld closest to Losanco, so I can have "[Forgeworld]-Pattern [item]s".

[Tyrannicide]

Yeah, I can see the Castigators utilizing different names for the respective Veteran squads. I think incorporating the themes of the light and dark sides of Losanco, could prove useful.

 

The bit on a Forgeworld is especially interesting, would have to figure a name out, possibly some brief history of the planet. :tu:

[Commissar Molotov]

I'm not sure about giving them specific names. I'm actually somewhat thinking of not giving them a particular name. The light/dark paradigm has merit, but I'm not sure about the potential application, so I think I might leave that.

[brother varen]

Greetings brothers,

 

Mol, like the idea on the chapter serfs. Now i have another modeling project after the 2nd company. ;) What types of armour do the Castigators have? Maybe give a percentage? Trying to work out how to make the Castigators stand out the way you perceive them. Still looking into the diffrent bits i'll need and how to get them since GW doesn't sell bits anymore. ;)

 

I'll be ordering the battle company soon, but am wondering if this is a bad idea since 5th edition is coming. What do you think? Then i'll be waiting for 5th edition for other miniatures. Then there is ForgeWorld products. Just so many things....

 

How is everyone's Castigators coming? Mol, did you get my Pm with the questions?

[Commissar Molotov]

Greetings brothers,

How is everyone's Castigators coming? Mol, did you get my Pm with the questions?

 

Actually, I had, though I'd somewhat forgotten about it. I have put this together, which might prove useful. Perhaps if you post your ideas here I can give my thoughts - as can people like Darth Potato.

 

As to the armour, I don't think it matters too much. However, I'm somewhat dubious about you making a whole Company of Castigators. I'm always keen for people to focus themselves on their own ideas. Sure, make an army of Castigators - but a Company?

[ToyShip]

I love your serf ideas Mol! Dont forget about them being the ones repelling boarders during fleet actions and such, there wouldnt always be Castigators onboard to attack/defend in a fleet battle. I assume you read the part about the Misericord as inspiration then? :P I think it would be interesting for a glimpse at the extremely complex workings of the Serfs, as stated before. You wouldn't necessarily need to name every rank and that sort of thing, but some hints would be neat, IMHO.

 

Two cents,

ToyShip

[Commissar Molotov]

I forgot you were one of the lucky few to get your hands on a DH rulebook, too. And yes, the Misericord was definitely part of my thinking - that bit about the Lamplighter's Guild and the Followers of the Wire fighting over who is allowed to change the ship's glowbulbs was a delight to read. Some of their bizarre traditions, the paper masks and the like, are very interesting too.

 

Of course, you're absolutely right - they would be a large proportion of the Castigators' fleet. I actually thought those on the ships would be somewhat seperate, elitist, from those on the Sanctuary. Whether I follow up on that I don't know. I do think the image of Serfs in carapace armour and with Shotguns repelling a boarding action, every now and then a Space Marine leading them, is a great image. Would be easy to replicate with Inquisitorial stormtroopers, too.

 

--

 

In other news, I've been reading Imperial Armour 2 and thinking about the Techmarines and the Master of the Forge - thoughts that came about after discussing the Forgeworld. I have a few quotes that'll help you with my line of thinking.

 

Each Space Marine Chapter is an independent, self-sufficient force which provides its own fighting forces and weapons of war from the Chapter forges. For the most part, these are constructed by Techmarines and servitors under the watchful eye of the Chapter's Master of the Forge, but for some Chapters, the largest vehicles must come from the Adeptus Mechanicus. Some Forge Worlds, bound to supply Space Marine Chapters by ancient charters and mutual oaths of service to the Imperium do manufacture Rhinos, Land Raiders and Thunderhawk Gunships.

 

Interesting, the idea that some Forges wouldn't be large or extensive enough to construct every vehicle a Chapter would need. I read a quote which said that Thunderhawk Gunships require vast manpower to construct, so they might be a candidate for construction on a Forgeworld.

 

"The Chapter forges are also capable of making one-off vehicles for special operations or environments, such as siege equipment. This is a prospect that would appal any Tech-Priest, but the Adeptus Mechanicus have no power to intervene or dictate what happens within the walls of a Chapter Fortress-Monastery"

 

Again, interesting. I'm not one of these people that needs to create a billion different vehicles to give my Chapter character, but I really like the idea that Techmarines are perhaps slightly more pragmatic than Techpriests. Just what they need for me to really hook into their concept.

 

Although each Chapter has its own traditions and rituals of construction they follow a broadly similar pattern.

 

This is a key quote for me - the idea that different Techmarines from different Chapters would do things in a different way. I had the thought that the Master of the Forge in the Castigators would be influenced by Castigator doctrine. Just as the Castigators care about the purity of gene-seed, the Techmarine would be wanting to ensure the purity, the stability and durability of the vehicles he constructs.

 

Each Techmarine serves an apprenticeship on a forgeworld as part of their training; some even travel to Mars to learn from the master Tech-magi.

 

This is something I've never known before - I was under the impression that all Techmarines went to Mars. The idea that Techmarines travel to the closest Forge World is an interesting one. It opens up the idea that perhaps those judged to be the most talented and adept by the Master of the Forge are permitted to travel to Mars.

[ToyShip]

A quick thought:

This is something I've never known before - I was under the impression that all Techmarines went to Mars. The idea that Techmarines travel to the closest Forge World is an interesting one. It opens up the idea that perhaps those judged to be the most talented and adept by the Master of the Forge are permitted to travel to Mars.

 

So that being said, if a Chapter was based near to say, Rhyza, a forgeworld known for its plasma technology, then the Techmarines may be better at building and repairing such things? Interesting indeed. That would lead me to think that it would be a cool idea to explain where the Castigators send their techmarines, what Forgeworld to be precise, and what, if any, specialties does aforesaid Forgeworld have?

 

Just a random thought

 

ToyShip

[Commissar Molotov]

So that being said, if a Chapter was based near to say, Rhyza, a forgeworld known for its plasma technology, then the Techmarines may be better at building and repairing such things? Interesting indeed. That would lead me to think that it would be a cool idea to explain where the Castigators send their techmarines, what Forgeworld to be precise, and what, if any, specialties does aforesaid Forgeworld have?

 

I suppose you could make an argument along those lines - a Chapter based near Ryza would have a higher proportion of plasma weapons (because that's what Ryza churns out of its forges) and Techmarines that trained there would be able to maintain such weapons to a higher standard than other Chapters.

 

So it could be interesting to know what the local Forgeworld does. Hrm... I did come up with a name for its Titan Legion - the Legio Lux (Lightbringers). Because if a titan doesn't stand out enough, we'll paint it WHITE! :)

 

Crazy AdMech Bastards... :o

[Nash Trickster]

Ancient pacts sworn between the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Adeptus Astartes allow the Space Marines to send a proportion of their warriors to Mars to train with the Adeptus Mechanicus and begin the long, arduous journey of becoming a priest of the Machine God.

The Index Astartes seems pretty clear about where Techmarines undergo their training in the ways of the Machine...

 

However, after a period of "basic training", they could be sent to a closer Forge-World to finish their training...

[Commissar Molotov]

Ancient pacts sworn between the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Adeptus Astartes allow the Space Marines to send a proportion of their warriors to Mars to train with the Adeptus Mechanicus and begin the long, arduous journey of becoming a priest of the Machine God.

The Index Astartes seems pretty clear about where Techmarines undergo their training in the ways of the Machine...

 

However, after a period of "basic training", they could be sent to a closer Forge-World to finish their training...

 

Certainly, Nash - I agree. I've always been under the impression that Techmarines had to actually travel to Mars. Yet the Imperial Armour fluff is interesting in its own way. So I guess it depends which I choose to utilise. I figure I'd take the best of both worlds by having the majority of the Castigators' Techmarines trained at the local Forge World, with the most promising candidates being sent all the way to Mars itself.

[brother varen]

Mol, have you decided on what technology the Castigators will lean towards? Do the Castigators deal with all 3 divions of the =I=? Did you have info or pics on the 2nd company Chaplain? You stated that you have already created him. Is Captain Caphius the oldest in the chapter besides the dreadnoughts? How many dreadnoughts does each company have in your opinion?

[ToyShip]

Mol, have you decided on what technology the Castigators will lean towards? Do the Castigators deal with all 3 divions of the =I=? Did you have info or pics on the 2nd company Chaplain? You stated that you have already created him. Is Captain Caphius the oldest in the chapter besides the dreadnoughts? How many dreadnoughts does each company have in your opinion?

 

Honestly Brother, I dont think that the Castigators should lean towards any certain technologies, per se. A Forge World could produce anything from the mighty Titan to the arcane Oscillating Toothbrush (Made Up). The point is, how likely would it be for the Castigators to be stationed near a Forge World that fits a particular technological slot useful to them? I mean that would be a little too coincidental if you ask me, but then you didnt, you asked Molotov, but I think he would agree.

 

I do believe that were you to look in Molotovs article in the first post of this thread, it will tell you all you need to know about their dealings with the Inquisition:

The Castigators have influential allies that allow them to continue unmolested; some traditional and puritan Inquisitors have gone so far as to openly applaud the Castigators, seeing their actions as those of the truly faithful. The chapter has worked in concert with puritan elements of the Emperor's Inquisition on several occasions throughout its history. It is not uncommon for such Inquisitors to work with militant cults in the Imperium such as the Redemptionists to create frenzied mobs and stir up hatred, intolerance and xenophobia amongst planetary populations. These beliefs are similar to those of the Castigators, and this has lead to them aiding such cults at the urging of an Inquisitor.

 

That's in the beliefs section ^_^ . I would assume that they would work with both Hereticus and Xenos Ordos, the more likely being Hereticus. I say this because of their attention to purity and hatred of the Mutant. They would most likely not work alongside Ordo Malleus, because of the fact that they have the Grey Knights.... :tu:. And i'm sure a brother or two would be sent to the Deathwatch of the Ordo Xenos.

 

And finally, why do you need to know how many dreadnoughts each company has? GW fluff states, if i'm not mistaken that the Ancients are considered a part of the Chapter's Armory, distributed amongst the companies in times of need. Dreadnought Sarcophagi are extremely rare and temper-mental, and it takes considerable time and resources to awaken just one. That said Dreadnoughts do take to the battlefield, I just don't see it happening with every battle.

 

 

I hope I shed some light on your questions without sounding snooty, and Mol, I hope I didn't overstep my bounds by replying to Brother Varen.

 

;)

[Barret]

According to Insignium Astartes, as well as other sources like the Chapter org chart in Codex: Space Marines, Dreadnoughts are indeed an assigned part of companies, especially the Battle Companies. This is according to the Codex, at least. Chapters with differing doctrines or beliefs around the Dreadnoughts might have different practices, or a Chapter with very few Dreadnought sarcophagi might concentrate them within the 1st Company, the Armoury, or not assign them to a Company at all.

 

What this means in the Castigators is, of course, up to Molly. :P

[ToyShip]

According to Insignium Astartes, as well as other sources like the Chapter org chart in Codex: Space Marines, Dreadnoughts are indeed an assigned part of companies, especially the Battle Companies. This is according to the Codex, at least. Chapters with differing doctrines or beliefs around the Dreadnoughts might have different practices, or a Chapter with very few Dreadnought sarcophagi might concentrate them within the 1st Company, the Armoury, or not assign them to a Company at all.

 

I stand corrected. :P

[Commissar Molotov]

Mol, have you decided on what technology the Castigators will lean towards? Do the Castigators deal with all 3 divions of the =I=? Did you have info or pics on the 2nd company Chaplain? You stated that you have already created him. Is Captain Caphius the oldest in the chapter besides the dreadnoughts? How many dreadnoughts does each company have in your opinion?

 

- I don't know what you mean by "what technology the Castigators will lean towards." - if you mean the Forgeworld discussion, that was mostly Toyship bringing up a seperate but related topic. The Castigators aren't going to be hugely influenced by a particular Forgeworld, I just want to name said Forgeworld at some stage.

- Yes, the Castigators do deal with all three branches of the Inquisition, to varying degrees. They obviously get on far better with those of a Puritan/Traditionalist stripe - Monodominants would get on with them far better than others, perhaps.

- The design of the Second Company Chaplain is up to Aerion the Faithful. Nicodemus is his character. Aerion's my friend, so he gets to do what he wants.

- Caphius is the oldest of the Captains, yes.

- Dreadnoughts? Well, perhaps three at most.

 

According to Insignium Astartes, as well as other sources like the Chapter org chart in Codex: Space Marines, Dreadnoughts are indeed an assigned part of companies, especially the Battle Companies. This is according to the Codex, at least. Chapters with differing doctrines or beliefs around the Dreadnoughts might have different practices, or a Chapter with very few Dreadnought sarcophagi might concentrate them within the 1st Company, the Armoury, or not assign them to a Company at all.

 

What this means in the Castigators is, of course, up to Molly. :P

 

Dreadnoughts would indeed be an assigned part of Companies, unlike vehicles such as Vindicators, Whirlwinds and the like, which would be assigned as needed by the Master of the Forge. There's an interesting quote in Imperial Armour 2 which suggests the Master of the Forge could well have the final say - after all, it's his role to safeguard the vehicles:

 

Turning a basic Rhino into a Vindicator is a long process, and each Vindicator is a valuable asset to the Chapter. They are seldom committed to battle unless the Master of the Forge is convinced their specialised firepower is required.

 

The Castigators don't have differing doctrines around Dreadnoughts. They don't even use more dreadnoughts than other orthodox Chapters. The key I tried to convey in the article is that they value the wisdom and insight of these Venerable Warriors.

[Commissar Molotov]

More work on the Castigators.

 

I've been working on two things recently: This draft includes details on all the Castigators' various Companies. I've not quite collated all my notes, and it doesn't include the Librarium, Forge, Reclusiam, Apothecarion or the Master's Household.

 

I've also been working on this timeline which features notes on many of the Castigators' most famous campaigns throughout their history. I've been stymied on this somewhat because of the lack of a definitive date for the fourteenth founding. As a result, all the dates take place after the Age of Apostasy. Still, it's helped me work out a lot of issues regarding the Castigators' organisation and how many of the Companies and Captains have interacted. It's not finished in the least, but it's been a fruitful endeavour.

 

I've also been discussing with Tiberius the idea of creating an 'Imperial Armour'-styled book featuring the Castigators and the Space Sharks during the three year-long 'War of Woe'. If that comes to fruition I'll keep you updated.

 

-----

 

Talking of the Forge, I chatted with Fabricator-General recently, and we'd decided to name the Castigators' Master of the Forge 'Atellus'. I like the idea of the Castigators' doctrine being shifted to encompass vehicles and the like. Only the purest machine-spirits, etc.

 

I'm curious now about the Castigators' Chief Librarian. And it interests me that I've not actually approached the Apothecaries yet.

 

As ever, more work! :)