The Castigators

[Marshal Rohr]

Neophyte inductive is chapter preference. The BT's take in up to what looked like a 20 year old or older (Damnation Crusade), the Ultramarines 14-17 year olds (Defenders of Ultramar), and the Red Scorpions take babies so all they ever know is the chapter (IA:IV, IIRC).

[Commissar Molotov]

Damnation Crusade contradicts the Rites of Initiation article from Index Astartes - which I would prefer. My understanding is taht the Secondary Heart and the Biscopea have to be implanted by the age of twelve in order to take properly. The Castigators would want the implants to take properly, so they'd be less likely to reject the organs.

[CantonWC]

I would just like to take the time to place an obligatory post in this epic thread, to show that I managed to read through almost the entire thing over the course of several days in my never ending quest to learn the finer points of making DIY Chapters :P With any luck the useful information and ponderings herein will help make my own Chapter that much better ;)

[Brother Argent]

Very much that way, isn't it Canton. I check up on the updates of the Castigators thread here all the time. If you wanted an example of a great DIY Chapter, well here it is...

[flameseeker574]

the recruitment age is between 10-15 depending on which document you look at.

[kil78]

Damnation Crusade contradicts the Rites of Initiation article from Index Astartes - which I would prefer. My understanding is taht the Secondary Heart and the Biscopea have to be implanted by the age of twelve in order to take properly. The Castigators would want the implants to take properly, so they'd be less likely to reject the organs.

 

 

The Rites of Initiation article from Index Astartes is based on mainline codex chapter, other chapters may have different age/recruitment requirements

[Commissar Molotov]

That's certainly true - and although I didn't state it explicitly, that was what I was saying. It's possible that other Chapters might have other requirements, but I still highly doubt that Chapters will be inducting twenty year-olds. Irregardless, the Castigators are rigorous with their implantation rites, and so they're likely to be as stringent as possible with their recruitment, induction, implantation and evaluation.

[kil78]

well the soul drinkers inducted a guardsman, ,,,,,

 

basically I just think the hard rule of 15 or under is kind of crap, there is probabaly a "best way" but that does not mean it is impossible for other chapters to induct older marines.

 

that said, that has nothing to do with how your chapter recruits,, so sorry for derailing your thread.

[Marshal Rohr]

Well, the Legions would take anyone, Luthor was a grown man (he was augmented though, not implanted). But the other Legions would take older aspirants.

[Codex Grey]

That was during the time of the Heresy, and there has been many debates about wether the Legions could take older recruits due to the lack of superstition back then and better technology. Now, superstition is everywhere, and most Apothecaries don't even know what they are doing. The Castigators would not risk anything other than by the book in the case of recruitment.

 

well the soul drinkers inducted a guardsman

And the soul drinkers are supposedly second founding. I rest my case.

[Marshal Rohr]

That was during the time of the Heresy, and there has been many debates about wether the Legions could take older recruits due to the lack of superstition back then and better technology. Now, superstition is everywhere, and most Apothecaries don't even know what they are doing. The Castigators would not risk anything other than by the book in the case of recruitment.

 

well the soul drinkers inducted a guardsman

And the soul drinkers are supposedly second founding. I rest my case.

 

 

I was just saying it had been done. I cant really remeber to who though....

I completely agree of all the Chapters in the Imperium the Castigators are likely to have some of the most rigorous implantation possible.

[Commissar Molotov]

The problem, of course, is that we run into questions of relative worth. Which source means more? Which is more canon? Ultimately we each have to make our own decisions. I've said before how we each have our 'own' Warhammer 40,000 universe, with our own interpretations and our own understandings. Sometimes they overlap with other peoples' 40k universes, and other times we can be vehemently at odds.

 

Damnation Crusade (though it's written by Abnett, and I usually rate him highly) and the Soul Drinkers series (most people don't rate Counter - and your theories on the Soul Drinkers is another example - some people will believe they're a second founding in 'their' universe, whilst others put their hands over their ears and go "LA LA LA NOT LISTENING!") are, to me, less valid than the Rites of Initiation article.

 

Talking of which, a few quotes that might prove interesting:

 

Each organ serves a specific function as outlined above. Although a Chapter's Apothecaries and surgeons are able to perform the necessary implant operations, they do not necessarily understand the exact functioning of each organ.

 

The processes involved are incredibly ancient. Procedures are handed down from generation to generation, becoming increasingly ritualised and misinterpreted. For these reasons, the efficiency of each organ differs from Chapter to Chapter, depending on the condition of that Chapter's gene-seeds and the degree of debasement of its surgical procedures. In some Chapters, mutation of gene-seed, poor surgical procedure, or inadequate post-operative conditioning, has twisted the functioning of implants. For example, the omophagea gene-seed of the Blood Drinkers has mutated so that all Blood Drinkers have an unnatural craving for blood. In other Chapters individual organs are either useless or absent altogether.

 

Incredible ritualisiation of implantation - it's probably the same in the Castigators, to a degree. The Apothecaries are handed in incredible charge, and they take their position seriously. (Which brings up something interesting, actually - in Brothers of the Snake Priad is capable of removing gene-seed from his brothers - It would likely be the same among the Castigators. Something that's possible without 'Apothecaries as Sergeants'.)

 

These considerations mean that only a small proportion of people can become Space Marines. They must be male because zygotes are keyed to male hormones and tissue types, hence the need for tissue compatibility tests and psychological screening. If these tests prove successful, a candidate becomes a neophyte. With the completion of organ implantation and attendant chemical and hypnotic training, the subject becomes an initiate. An initiate receives training before joining the ranks as a full brother. A Marine usually joins the ranks between the ages of 16-18, but such are the hormonal changes induced by the process of creating a Space Marine that recruits are physically fully grown before then. Pressures during wartime may accelerate the process.

 

This quote suggests that a Marine becomes a full Battle Brother by the age of sixteen or eighteen. Interesting, actually, because it would suggest they only spend a relatively short time in the Scout Companies.

 

I don't have most of my sources with me here at university, but I do have Codex: Dark Angels which does mention Luther's "augmentation", but also on Page 18 it simply says: "Warriors must always be chosen when they are still young, before their bodies become too mature to accept the gene-seed which will turn them into Space Marines." Of course, when you're talking about centuries-old Marines, 'young' becomes relative, but it does seem to imply puberty.

[Guest Mordray]

Rather interesting this image I happen to have found a few years ago when I was first researching the 40k universe and the factions found within...

I'm thinking it might be of use in this argument.

Edited January 31, 2009 by Mordray

[Tyrannicide]

That image of the implant induction phases is from Index Astartes I, is it not? :(

[Guest Mordray]

I honestly have no idea... I'd imagine so but it was years ago and I only stumbled onto it in an old zip archive of files from an old computer of mine only a couple of weeks ago. Edited January 31, 2009 by Ferrata

[brother varen]

i believe that image is from Rouge trader days. I think it was in white dwarf #98 or somewhere closeto it.

[Commissar Molotov]

It may have been, but it was also included in the Rites of Initiation article, which was in IA1. We can take those ages to be "optimal". Obviously if the article says "10-12 years" and a Space Marine apothecary implanted them into a boy who was twelve years and one day it wouldn't necessarily fail, but the closer to that optimal band, the greater the chances of the implant taking, and the greater the chance of surviving to become a Space Marine. Whilst there is room for some leeway (certainly not enough for, say, twenty-year olds, I think) the Castigators would be loath to take such chances with the gene-seed.

 

EDIT: For those who might not've noticed, I've posted an update in the Two's Companies thread: Varen will probably be interested in the eviscerator. :cuss You can see it here.

Edited January 31, 2009 by Ferrata

[Ferrata]

Just removed a couple of references to an old site we don't like much around here. Even if it has been hit by the GW legal team.

[Commissar Molotov]

Heh. Well, fair enough.

 

The rites of initiation article can be found here:

 

Page 1

 

Page 2

 

Page 3

 

Page 4

 

I'd say personally that it really ought to be the definitive baseline our assumptions are centred around, unless the newest Space Marine Codex specifically contradicts it. I don't have it with me so I can't say either way.

[Marshal Rohr]

Due in no small part to Ferrus' help, we have come to a working conclusion for the campaign

 

• The Campaign takes place over 8 years
  

  
  

• Years 1-2: Fought by the Imperial Guard on the worlds colonized by the Adamark and the old
  Xenos
  homeworlds and colonies

  
  

  
  

• Year 3: The 4th company of the Arctic Lions arrive to support the main invasion of the Adamark system. The Lions traditional Astartes Tactics are soundly defeated by the Adamark.

  
  

  
  

• Year 4: The Arctic Lions are worn down over time by the superior technology and numbers of the Adamark. They eventually call for any nearby Astartes to aid.

  
  

  
  

• Year 5: Arctic Lions are soudnly defeated attempting in attack main production facility. The Castigators send a small detachment from the Third and Tenth Companies, under Veteran Sergeant Tarandas of the Third Company. The Arctic Lions return to their Homeworld to repel an Ork invasion. During their initial action against the Adamark, the Castigators are present for a full fledged counter assault where they witness the horrifying power of the Adamark military. Luckily they remain largely unscathed but he IG takes a beating. Veteran Sergeant Tarandas calls for more aid and submits a full tactical analysis combined with the reports from Veteran Sergeant Meridius of the 10th Company.

  
  

  
  

• Year 6: Full Castigators Strike Force arrives led by Captain Sirius and Seconded by Captain Tigris. The Castigators fight a ground war against the Adamark, using the lessons learned by the Lions to keep the losses relatively light.

  
  

  
  

• Year 7: A massive continental invasion gives the Imperials the upper hand and they prepare for their assault on the main production facility, the heart of the Adamark empire. Sergeant Meridius leads an infiltration team inside and discovers that it is the redoubt for the Adamark leaders (
  Xenos
  and Humans)

  
  

  
  

• Year 8: Every Imperial soldier participates in the attack on the facility. The 8th Company leads the Astartes Assault with a massive Airborne drop alongside the Imperial Guard Airborne Regiments. The Third Company links up with the 8th and they proceed to cleanse the facility. Captain Sirius and Captain Tigris, along with their company veterans, and the 1st Company detachment lead the attack on the Adamark command bunker. Here they massacre the leaders and find the root of the Adamark Rebellion.

  
  

Edited January 31, 2009 by Marshal2 Crusaders

[Donkey Kong]

Those are all fine points, now are you going to expand on the larger or more important battles? Also, it's a little unclear to me, but do the Arctic Lions stick around to the end of the campaign, or do they pull out? How many planets are in the Adamark system? What xenos are aiding the humans?

 

I think you've got the big picture down.

[Ferrus Manus]

Those are all fine points, now are you going to expand on the larger or more important battles? Also, it's a little unclear to me, but do the Arctic Lions stick around to the end of the campaign, or do they pull out? How many planets are in the Adamark system? What xenos are aiding the humans?

Yes, we will mostly likely expand on the larger battles. The Lions leave due to the imminent invasion of their homeworld. We're not sure how many planets are in the Adamark system, as far as I know.

 

As for the xenos, I don't think we've pinned down a specific race yet, we (me and M2C were discussing possibly using a DIY xenos race, maybe.)

[Marshal Rohr]

Well, the Semester is over and only a few more finals to go so I though it has been a long time without a post and I figured

I would stick so AEG paddles to this thread and revive it (if only weakly at first). Every piece of my Castigators is built save a few Sternguard and the final Sirius conversion. These boys will be primed this weekend and ready for painting by Monday if all goes well.

 

Here is the overview with pictures of each one up before sunday (I swear).

 

Sirius

 

Dreadnaught 'Godslayer'

 

Terminator Squad Turias

 

Sternguard Squad Tacitus

Rhino 'Wrath'

 

Tactical Squad Meridius

Rhino 'Loyalty'

 

Tactical Squad Deiad

 

Tactical Squad Solemnas

Rhino 'Honor'

 

Assault Squad Aspernus

 

Devastator Squad Asturias

Edited May 8, 2009 by Marshal2 Crusaders

[Tyrannicide]

Well I'm looking forward to seeing the third company represented on the table top. I'm eager to see photos of all the models. :jaw:

[Commissar Molotov]

I'm very keen to see the progress on your Castigators! <_< Edited July 21, 2010 by Commissar Molotov