The Castigators

[Keyoz Devastrius]

As my criticism was not to constructive I’ve got two ideas about how the whole Explorators-AM-Techmarines thing could be solved:

 

1)You could change the explorator craft to colonists craft, although it does not clarify the dislike of Techmarines.

 

2) You could leave the explorator craft and say that the Explorators descendants felt that AM and Omnissiah have forgotten about them. They have renounced Machine cult and converted to Emperor worship-this would lead to dislike of the AM.

Edited July 25, 2006 by Keyoz Devastrius

[Tubal]

I don't think there is an issue with the techmarines, he states quite clearly that it's "the loss of battle-brothers to the worship of the Omnissiah" that bothers them. The Omnissiah is not the Emperor, and for such a monodominant chapter worship of him/it is questionable at best.

[Keyoz Devastrius]

Tubal:

The Omnissiah is not the Emperor.

I disagree.

 

Codex Imperialis:

According to Adeptus Mechanicus knowledge is the supreme manifestation of divinity...The Emperor is the supreme object of worship because he comprehends so much.

 

Most people make a mistake thinking that name Omnissiah means as the same that Machine god. Machine god is the abstract divine being worshiped on Mars before Emperor came there. When Emperor came to mars AM recognized him as Machine god incarnate and named him Omnissiah. Basically AM (not counting sub-cults worshiping C

[Darrell]

Most people make a mistake thinking that name Omnissiah means as the same that Machine god. Machine god is the abstract divine being worshiped on Mars before Emperor came there. When Emperor came to mars AM recognized him as Machine god incarnate and named him Omnissiah. Basically AM (not counting sub-cults worshiping C

[Cpt_Tiberius]

I think it looks great Mol. The only thing I have ever had a problem with is the whole navigator thing. I still find it hard to believe that they accept the Navis but not the Librarians. However I think I have a solution.

 

During the the Great Crusade the Librarian project was disbanded at after Nikea, but for some reason was reinstated after the Heresy. Perhaps the Librarians are dispised as they were no-longer directly sanctioned by the Emperor, but the Navigators are.

 

Naturally they still despise them as filthy mutants, and I'm sure that they are kept seperate from the rest of the ships crew and are forbidden to interact with the other personel on board, But they are seen as a neccesary evil. Plus I'm sure the chapter plans to destroy the Navigators once their crusade of purity is over. :P

[Darrell]

It looks like the Castigators aren't really "Anti-Librarian" anymore, as they originally employed Librarians. From what I can gather from the IA 2.0, it looks like it's just a side-effect of their recruiting from Losanco Secundus where the population executes all the psykers, so the Castigators probably can't get any to train Librarians. I think the end about them being hypocritical should maybe be removed if that's the way Molotov wanted to go with it, since that last sentence still makes them sound Anti-Librarian.

[Heru]

During the the Great Crusade the Librarian project was disbanded at after Nikea, but for some reason was reinstated after the Heresy. Perhaps the Librarians are dispised as they were no-longer directly sanctioned by the Emperor, but the Navigators are.

 

 

That would be the fluff given mainly from the Horus Heresy Artbooks?

 

I've always personally had a problem with that fluff in particular, as it just really doesn't fit. Wasn't it in the original fluff that only Sorcerery was banned (using natural/trained Psychic powers is not considered sorcery - sorcery had more too it...).

[Cpt_Tiberius]

Honestly, I can't remember the original fluff, but that is how they have it in "False Gods" though that might be wrong (though possibly canon now? Really hard to keep track of this, sure wish they had someone watching this stuff at GW.)

[Keyoz Devastrius]

Darrell:

It looks like the Castigators aren't really "Anti-Librarian" anymore

[Brother Decaln]

Yes there oviosly going to be anti libarian. They kil here own familly because of of it. Theycouldnt have librarians even if they wanted to because only the light side people would have them and there impure.

 

I dont see what your problem is with this concept?

Edited August 3, 2006 by Brother Decaln

[Keyoz Devastrius]

I dont see what your problem is with this concept?

 

I don't have any problem with this concept.

 

I think you misunderstood my post. I simply disagreed with Darrell who said that they are not "Anti-Librarian" anymore.

 

I do have a problem with concept of AM descendants worshiping Emperor but I said this few times already.

Edited August 3, 2006 by Keyoz Devastrius

[Commissar Molotov]

Well, this is a gratuitous piece of necromancy, and one heck of a bump. The occasion? Well, I've re-written almost the entire article, picking away at the loose ends and wonky sentences that've annoyed me this time through. I've also reconciled their combat doctrine now I'm not trying to shoe-horn them into a trait system, added some further background fluff, added a tiny mention to the Hands of Hashut (for you, Gonzilla :lol:) and various tiny things. I'd love some feedback from people; I give it out, and I'd love to take some. Having to defend my decisions - or occasionally changing my mind based on the insights of others - is the best way to improve my fluff.

 

Also, it's quite possible that a Castigators-related website may be on the horizon... :P

Edited December 7, 2006 by Commissar Molotov

[Barret]

Before I start my feedback, just let me say this was a highly entertaining read. Although I'm not sure what you changed in the rewrite, it's a very taut IA. The homage (intentional or not) in the iconography and xenophobia to the Sons of Korhal from StarCraft pleases me.

 

Origins and Founding

The reasons for these measures would seem to be rooted in the thirteenth Astartes founding, the so-called 'Dark Founding'. All records of the thirteenth founding have long since been eradicated or lost, leaving behind only assumption and supposition. Few know exactly what transpired during this period of Imperial history, and none seem prepared to divulge their secrets. Still, it is clear that the Imperium's focus on genetic purity appears to have deeply affected the Castigators to this day.

 

I like this; it roots them firmly in the 40k timeline and involves them in the Dark Founding without them being yet another horribly mutated and 'mysterious' Chapter.

 

Homeworld

 

Just out of curiousity, have you decided where Losanco Secundus is located in the Imperium? I don't think it's a gap in the article, I just like knowing these things.

 

The time the planet took to rotate on its axis and the time it took to orbit the system's star were exactly the same. This odd circumstance meant that one half of the planet was shrouded in perpetual darkness whilst the other basked in permanent light and debilitating radiation. The planet should never have sustained life. But it did.

Every time I read about a night side/day side planet, I think of Ryloth, the Twi'lek homeworld in Star Wars. I don't know why, and it doesn't have much relevance...

 

If I read this correctly, the planet does rotate, just very slowly, rather than one side always being in shadow and the other always lit. If I'm wrong, ignore my next bit.

 

It appeared that millennia ago, an Imperial vessel had crashed onto Losanco. The descendents of those few survivors clung to the barely habitable dark-side, subjected to intense cold. Many of the planet's highest peaks were swathed in ice. Life was an unending struggle against the elements for survival, a struggle that ensured only the strongest could survive. Food was scarce, grown by dim moonlight in areas where streams of warm air reached the dark-side.

 

If the planet does rotate, than any peoples living in the dark side would have to be nomadic, always keeping ahead of the 'dawn'. If that's true, then I question the agricultural possibilities of the planet, as not only would the inhabitants not be able to stick around long enough to cultivate an area, but I see it as being rather difficult to grow anything in what would essentially be a longer, colder, darker Ice Age. However, to continue the Ice Age metaphor, I like the idea of a nomadic, techno-barbarian people hunting hideously dangerous beasties adapted to living on the planet; sabertooth tigers to nth degree, and cave bears the size of battletanks, that sort of thing. But then, I have an ill-disguised appreciation for howling barbarians.

 

If the planet does not rotate (or, maybe even if it does), I could see four ways that people would be able to live on the planet. Firstly, they are technologically advanced enough that their environs are less hostile, which I think disagrees with your intentions. Next, the nomadic-barbarian types I spoke of above, hunting beasties and mutants (and each other, if they have to), probably at a technology level comparable to Mad Max in the Arctic. Thirdly, they congregate around areas of constant volcanic/seismic activity, surviving in the heat and (comparatively) fertile land, possibly dwelling in caves where the geothermal heat makes things livable. And lastly, similar to the Twi'leks, they live primarly in the twilight zone (dun dun dunnnn) between night and day, staying out of the radiated day side, but far enough out of the night side to avoid freezing. In my mind, that last would make their plight much more dramatic and precarious, literaly caught between the light and dark, between mutation and freezing doom.

 

By contrast, those few cursed individuals that existed in the eternal day were mutated almost beyond recognition. Losancan legends suggested to the dark-siders that one day the Emperor would appear, bringing light and tranquillity to its troubled people and transforming the planet into a verdant paradise. The legends continued to state that He would only appear when the planet was 'deserving' - when it was freed from the blight of mutants and witches.

 

The dark-siders had grown to blame the mutants for their predicament, learning to fear and hate the mutants with an almost instinctual loathing for imperfection and disease. Malformed babies were killed rather than be left to survive, suffocated often by their own mothers or family members. This hatred of mutation extended beyond the physical form - those children that displayed burgeoning psychic abilities were killed in public ceremonies of devotion to the Emperor. Small bands of brave and pious individuals would often lead expeditions to the bright-side to try to eradicate the mutants' blasphemous scourge from the planet's surface. Although these primitive individuals had no concept of radiation, they knew that should they spend too long on the bright side, they would weaken and die. Only the hardiest (some would say most fool-hardy) undertook such missions.

I really like this, and I think it's a very iconic element of the 40k universe. Freedom and liberty are the doom of mankind and, here, daylight is death and nighttime little safer.

 

The Losancans saw the Castigators' actions and came to see them as terrible angels, ferocious emissaries of a God-Emperor that watches over them all the time to ensure they carry out their divine task - the purification of their homeworld. The Castigators are fully aware of the native legends, and have even fostered them simply because they help promote hatred of the mutants. Those children amongst the bands that travel to the light-side to fight the mutants are secretly observed by the Castigators' Chaplains. If one is found worthy, the Chaplain will approach the warband and take the child to become one of His angels.

 

Reminds me of the Blood Angels and Baal. Not a bad thing, mind you. Just an idle observation. :)

 

When the chapter fights, it is sustained by a deeply-held belief that they are the guardians of humanity. It is their divine duty to defend the Emperor's flock, and they will not accept failure in this, the holiest of all endeavours.

I find this an interesting parallel to my own Knights of the Raven (one of many, actually, that I see). Both Chapters see themselves as safeguarding humanity, but where my Knights see themselves as shepherds and the 'men on the wall', as it where, the Castigators are harsh warrior-angels.

 

Some have criticised the Castigators, claiming that such tactics waste valuable manpower and resources. The Castigators have - thus far successfully - refuted these accusations, claiming that rather than single-mindedly fighting their way into certain death, they judge their fights well to ensure that the enemy is eradicated. To the Castigators, a wasteful death is pointless, but a justified death is the greatest honour.

 

And here's where the Castigators and the Knights are very, very different.

 

The newly-created Castigators chaplain had a number of Librarians, drawn from the Black Consuls. During their initial ten-year crusade, the Castigators also recruited a number of psychically-empowered initiates. However, because the populace of Losanco Secundus ferociously eliminate all mutants from the populace, the Castigators no longer have psykers in their ranks. Those initiates that go on to manifest latent psychic powers are taken away by the Chaplains, never to be seen again.

I'm curious, what would/does happen if a Marine manifests pyschic potential late in life? While I'm sure this would be an occurance rare enough to be unheard of, but how would the Castigators react if a great Captain or Veteran showed pyschic ability, yet (and this would be the important part) not be tainted by Chaos? Would the Castigators just assume he was tainted? Again, I don't think this is a gap in the IA, I'm just curious.

 

Because of this, the responsibility of keeping a record of the chapter's history is given to ordinary brother-marines. Each of the Castigators' marines undertakes a period of service in the chapter's Librarium once every decade. They work to duplicate ancient texts and to pass on the stories of the Castigators' past. These Librarians accompany Company Captains, recording the chapter's history, recounting tales of battles fought throughout the millennia, and learning lessons from the actions of others. This allows every battle-brother to be intimately familiar with the chapter's history of warfare.

 

Another way the Castigators and the Knights of the Raven are similar-but-different.

 

Like the majority of Space Marine chapters, the Castigators honour ancient pacts with the Adeptus Mechanicus that stretch back millennia to their very founding. Those amongst the Castigators with an affinity for technology are dispatched to Mars, where they are initiated into the Martian tech-cults. This is acknowledged as a necessary process - without the techmarines, the Adeptus Astartes would be left unable to tend to the machine spirits, to observe the rites that ensure continued operation of their wargear, or to repair damage taken on the field of battle. But the process comes at a lamentable price - the loss of battle-brothers to the worship of the Omnissiah. The techmarines are mysterious and capricious, aloof and distant. Their inscrutable ways are not easily understood by most of the battle-brethren. Indeed, some of the more zealous factions among the chapter distrust the techmarines. To them, the worship of the Omnissiah is at best dangerous, and at worst heretical. It is a duty of the Chapter Master to ensure that these ideological tensions are defused and that no blood is spilt.

Very characterful. Antithetical to me and anything I write, but still characterful, and very much in keeping with 40k. :D

 

It is said that some of the Castigators' techmarines struggle their entire lives to resolve the differences between their chapter's creed and the dictates of the Liber Mechanicus. These tortured souls keep their distance from their beloved battle-brothers that hate them so, seeking solace among the lobotomised servitors and the machine-spirits that inhabit the chapter's equipment.

 

*sniff* Poor Techmarines. I loves them so, but they just don't get no respect. :o

 

The harsh lifestyle of Losanco Secundus's people ensures that they are strong, used to hardship and skilled at hunting and destroying deviants and mutants. The chapter fosters this intolerance for mutants in its recruits, regarding them as an abomination against the Emperor, to be exterminated with extreme prejudice. The threat of the mutant is so great that the Castigators put themselves, and their greatest prize - their purity - in harm's way to battle the enemies of the Emperor. Much like the people of Losanco Secundus fighting the mutants of the day-side, the Castigators sacrifice all that is dear to them to rid the Imperium of a greater taint. It is a thankless task, but the Castigators undertake the challenge willingly.

Again, very characterful. It reinforces the theme of the Chapter, and differentiates them from many other Chapters.

 

The Castigators are known to adhere to philosophies that could be compared to Inquisitor Goldo's principles of Monodomination. They are utterly ruthless and unforgiving when it comes to those they perceive as aiding the enemies of the Imperium. Mutants, aliens, psykers and religious deviants are all to be called to account for their activities. The only punishment for those who stray from the Emperor's path is death. The Castigators are utterly devoted to this belief and have in the past even been openly hostile towards loyalist Space Marines they have perceived to have a mutated or debased gene-seed. They utterly refuse to work alongside aliens such as Eldar or Kroot.

 

Sorry to keep mentioning my own DIY, but I really don't think the Knights and Castigators would get along so well. ;)

 

Above all, the Castigators revere the Emperor for His sacrifice and for all He had to endure to ensure that humanity survived the dark days of the Horus Heresy. He surrendered more than most can even imagine. Many of the chapter's marines commit acts of self-mutilation in an attempt to further their own spiritual growth. These acts are overlooked by the Chapter's commanders, as they encourage piety. The pain is welcomed, and is a small price to pay for understanding even a small sliver of the Emperor's suffering and sacrifice.

 

Although this behaviour is strongly reminiscent of the Imperial Fists, the fact that the Castigators are not remotely related or influenced by them makes the fact that this is their own character coming through more clear, rather than being an inherited facet of Dorn.

 

 

That's all I can think of or see at the moment, but let me say in closing that your accompanying art is fantastic, and I'm jealous. ;)

 

 

Cheers,

 

Barret

[Heru]

And I'm supposed to be able to write my own IAs after reading the Knights of the Raven, The Harbingers of Fire, and THIS! :D

 

I should just give up now... I'm never going to write anything this long or this good... and that art work... omgs :o

[Commissar Molotov]

Hey, Barret. Before I start, and before you read this reply, I've edited a few sections quite substantially with feedback I've received from Darrell. I do want to thank you, however. I'm always glad to receive reasoned and insightful feedback. I'm glad you enjoyed reading it. I'm always glad when people enjoy my work - though at the moment I'm still not entirely satisfied. It's probably about 80% right now.

 

Yes, the logo is shamelessly stolen from Starcraft; it was something that suited my purpose. The red/white icon at the beginning of the article was made for me by Tiberius in glorious technicolour. It seems to mesh well with their task of punishing others (and perhaps punishing themselves.) The xenophobic comparisons with the Sons of Korhal weren't entirely intentional, though. The Castigators certainly have grown quite organically, going through several dozen drafts. As they're never going to be submitted to GW, I can get away with the blatant copyright theft from Blizzard.

 

The events of the fourteenth founding are something that Darrell and I are very interested in detailing. I seem to be plugging them a lot at the moment. We're working on a project called the 'Astartes Vocates' - a group of chapters created in the fourteenth founding, and their efforts to protect the Imperium from the darkness without - and within.

 

Losanco is located vaguely in the Ultima Segmentum (as mentioned at the end of 'Origins and Founding') but I've not really decided where. My Castigators have had associations with various other Ultima Segmentum chapters. One small note that'll be included in the Castigators website is that the Castigators (as an Ultramarines successor) have contributed in the past to the Ultramarines Honour Company at the Eye of Terror (in the Segmentum Obscuras).

 

Now, my understanding of tidally-locked orbits is based on the moon, and how the same face always points towards Earth. The same side of Losanco is dark all the time. And in order to do that, the world needs to spin. I know it's a bit hard to work it, but if you have the ability to check it out in real-life with... basketballs or something, you might see.

 

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6070/planets13kp.jpg

 

This is the planet orbiting the sun, but not spinning (which I think is impossible). You see, the sun will eventually touch all parts of the planet.

 

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/6711/planets24qo.jpg

 

This is the planet spinning. The key is that the planet spins very slowly. The time it takes to spin once is exactly the same time it takes to orbit once (unlike ours, which spins 366 times every orbit). As such, the blue side always faces the sun.

 

I did consider the nomadic people, trying to stay ahead of the 'dawn'. It's got strong possibilitiyes, and I know you favour your barbarians (what with the Sons of Dagda), but I did sort of envisage them as something between the third and fourth of your options. They're close enough to the lightside to take advantage of the warm winds, but not so close as to suffer from the radiation. I really like the way you've phrased the plight of the Losancans, though, staying between light and dark. I'm really glad that they resonate with you, though, as it's always my goal to try to create characters that stick.

 

With regards to the marines manifesting psychic potential (this is one of the paragraphs I've edited heavily), if a marine does that, they're lead away by the Chaplains. Are they killed? It's a mystery to the impartial observer. But in truth, I think that the Castigators would treat any marine that manifested psychic potential as having been tainted by chaos and would then kill him.

 

I'm curious as to how the techmarine issue is 'antithetical'. I'd really like to hear more of your opinions on that issue, because it's something that's fairly new to the article. I see the Techmarines as quite strong dramatic elements in the chapter's mythos, certainly. I also think that Castigator techmarines could be excellent elements for artwork. :D

 

By the way; reckon you could've mentioned the Knights of the Raven a few times more? ;) Oh, and as a quick note, Salamanders gene-seed is pure, stable and uncorrupted so you're probably safe from Castigators-inspired retribution. :)

 

Heru: Thank you for the compliment. :o

 

Edit: To keep my sponsors happy, the artwork in my thread is the ever-amazing work of Captain Tiberius and Penitent Dreadnought. Good karma awaits you if you check out Illuminatus, the premier (only?) GW art site online.

Edited December 8, 2006 by Commissar Molotov

[Heru]

The events of the fourteenth founding are something that Darrell and I are very interested in detailing. I seem to be plugging them a lot at the moment. We're working on a project called the 'Astartes Vocates' - a group of chapters created in the fourteenth founding, and their efforts to protect the Imperium from the darkness without - and within.

 

How many and what are the names of the 14th Founding Chapters you've got planned so far?

 

 

Heru: Thank you for the compliment. :P

 

It's not a complement it's a lament! ;)

 

 

Edit: To keep my sponsors happy, the artwork in my thread is the ever-amazing work of Captain Tiberius and Penitent Dreadnought. Good karma awaits you if you check out Illuminatus, the premier (only?) GW art site online.

 

If only they'd do an Exodus Sorcerer, an Imperial Reaver, and a Silver Falcon for the tale of the Silver Falcon's path into genocide, and eventual name change...

[Barret]

The events of the fourteenth founding are something that Darrell and I are very interested in detailing. I seem to be plugging them a lot at the moment. We're working on a project called the 'Astartes Vocates' - a group of chapters created in the fourteenth founding, and their efforts to protect the Imperium from the darkness without - and within.

 

I look forward to seeing more of this. The notion of creating organizations or 'groupings' like this interest me greatly, especially when it opens the door for us DIYers to take our creations beyond the IA article.

 

Losanco is located vaguely in the Ultima Segmentum (as mentioned at the end of 'Origins and Founding') but I've not really decided where.

Right, sorry, I guess I missed that on my read-through.

 

Now, my understanding of tidally-locked orbits is based on the moon, and how the same face always points towards Earth.

 

*snip*

 

As such, the blue side always faces the sun.

 

Thanks for the demonstration, I get now what you were saying. I think model I had in my head had the planet not rotating on its own axis at all, hence what I said.

 

I did consider the nomadic people, trying to stay ahead of the 'dawn'. It's got strong possibilitiyes, and I know you favour your barbarians (what with the Sons of Dagda), but I did sort of envisage them as something between the third and fourth of your options.

Most of what I said there was based on my faulty understanding of the planet's rotation and day/night cycles, but I do now understand more clearly the nature of the natives' lives.

 

I really like the way you've phrased the plight of the Losancans, though, staying between light and dark. I'm really glad that they resonate with you, though, as it's always my goal to try to create characters that stick.

 

Cheers. :D As you may have noted, I always like it when thematic elements like this blend with the nature of 40k so well (even though own creations tend to be in direct opposition to it *shrug*).

 

With regards to the marines manifesting psychic potential (this is one of the paragraphs I've edited heavily), if a marine does that, they're lead away by the Chaplains. Are they killed? It's a mystery to the impartial observer. But in truth, I think that the Castigators would treat any marine that manifested psychic potential as having been tainted by chaos and would then kill him.

That's what I gathered and assumed. I do think it'd be a neat side-story if, at some point, a revered Captain or hero suddenly starts being prescient or shooting lighting from his fingers, and the fallout among the Chapter after he 'disappears'.

 

I'm curious as to how the techmarine issue is 'antithetical'. I'd really like to hear more of your opinions on that issue, because it's something that's fairly new to the article. I see the Techmarines as quite strong dramatic elements in the chapter's mythos, certainly. I also think that Castigator techmarines could be excellent elements for artwork. ;)

 

It's antithetical to me, personally, for equally personal reasons, rather than a viewpoint on the 40k universe. Techmarines (and the AdMech, and 40k technology in general (especially the Orks')) are probably my favourite and most iconic thing in the fluff, and that tends to carry over into my writing. Your portrayal of the Castigator Techmarines and their relation with the rest of the Chapter is very resonant, and a very strong addition to the Chapter. Please don't take my comment as dislike; I was just making a personal comment. :)

 

By the way; reckon you could've mentioned the Knights of the Raven a few times more? ;) Oh, and as a quick note, Salamanders gene-seed is pure, stable and uncorrupted so you're probably safe from Castigators-inspired retribution. ;)

Sorry about that. I wasn't trying to hijack, I just found the connections and differences interesting. And it was more the overt trafficking with Xenos that made me question the pleasantness of Knights/Castigator relation.

 

To keep my sponsors happy, the artwork in my thread is the ever-amazing work of Captain Tiberius and Penitent Dreadnought. Good karma awaits you if you check out Illuminatus, the premier (only?) GW art site online.

 

Good to know. Now if only we could convince them to do work for the rest of us. ;) I visit the Illuminatus every so often to gape at the work over there...

 

 

And Heru, whether you meant it or not, that was complimentary. :D Don't stress about your work just yet. The Knights are really the convergence of several different ideas that I've been working towards for over a year, and it's taken a lot of feedback and suggestions from others to get them to the point they are now (which is still unfinished and not totally satisfactory). And the Sons of Dagda are a collaborative project that's been going on for over a year. :) The Spirit Walkers are currently in their fourth major revision, including two complete startings-over. They began as a polytheistic, Spartan-inspired crusading Chapter called The Phalanx, turned into Salamander Successor commandoes, became more like what they are today, got lost in the crash, and then got rewritten (again, with a lot of help). Heh, my first DIY, when I first joined, were Barret's Privateers; a horrible (horrible) mish-mash of Night Lords, Alpha Legion, Red Corsairs, 17th Century pirates and Canadian folk songs. And I still have the Grey Slayers and the Hyenas lingering uncompleted somewhere in the depths of the Liber...

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Barret

Edited December 8, 2006 by Barret

[Commissar Molotov]

My KOTR comment was meant in good humour - please take it as such! :) Honestly, I mention the Castigators a great deal in threads with various other people.

 

I would think that honestly if a Castigator manifested latent psyker powers, they would be so disgusted that they would want to kill themselves. Of course, you're right that it raises interesting thematic elements. Perhaps not anything I could fully pursue any time soon, but I could certainly add it to the list for examination if the rumoured Castigators.com ever gets off the ground.

 

I like Techmarines very much too, actually. It's just the Castigators and I don't always see eye-to-eye.

 

Oh, and the overt trafficking with Xenos probably will lose you your place on the Castigators' Christmas Card list. Sorry to disappoint you.

 

Oh, and @ Heru + Barret: Darrell should be posting a thread in the Liber about the Astartes Vocates (I PMed him my end of the initial article) so fingers crossed there should be something interesting for you to read over the weekend.

[Nine_Breaker]

Well you asked for it...so here we go!

 

The chapter possesses only twenty-one venerated suits of Terminator Armour, and these are worn by the greatest warriors in the chapter.

Why only 21 suits of TDA? Is this all they ever had? Or is this due to attrition? Or perhaps the Castigators lost most of their suits in a major battle in the chapter Edited December 9, 2006 by Nine_Breaker

[AWOL]

Just some quick points:

 

I liked the line you had in older drafts of the article, where the Castigators would drop their cerimonial totem thingies and vow not to take a step backwards past that point, or somesuch. It was very Zealoty, and I thought it added a lot to their combat doctrine, making them seem a bit less tactical and a bit more "We're going this way. Either get out of the way or die."

 

I'm also confused as to the current situation with the psychic librarians. Do they just not have them anymore? This was spelled out fairly clearly in the initial drafts, but is a bit more ambiguous here (I think, keep in mind I'm posting at 1 AM.)

 

And as to the techmarine situation, I like it. It creates great tension within the chapter. The only thing I have against it is that the Castigators have been around for a loooong time. Thousands of years, in fact. It seems odd that such a strong willed and purity minded chapter would tolerate this situation for this entire time without even once trying to find a workaround to the problem. I understand that they have to keep them to keep their wargear running, but what's to stop the Castigators from just figuring out how to make the repairs themselves? Maybe this explains why they don't use tanks, because they require an unnecessary amount of repair. The darker parts of my imagination see the Castigators perhaps even turning on their techmarines, leading them off to the old interrogation room and trying to force them to reveal how the wargear works. Maybe that's too far into zeal land, but for the Castigators it doesn't seem like that much of a leap, and in any case I would have expected them to try SOMETHING after thousands of years of heretical omnisiah worship in their ranks. One explanation could be adherence to the Codex, but this would be one of the few references they've shown towards any extreme degree of codex loyalty.

[Commissar Molotov]

Nine: With regards to the 21 suits of TDA, I figure that it's all the chapter's ever had. I guess that as the chapters get younger and younger they receive fewer and fewer relics. Few chapters can field their entire first company in terminator armour, and I wouldn't doubt that there's a few chapters that have absolutely no suits of TDA at all. As such I assumed the Castigators only ever had 21 suits. That's still enough for four squads of Terminators, which is a mighty and formidable force. Each suit's painstakingly preserved and the loss of just one would be a lamentable day for the entire chapter. I guess it's a stylistic attempt to portray the Imperium jealously hording what technology it can.

 

With regards to the Battlefield Doctrine section. The Castigators are really a codex-adherent force with a bit of religion stacked on top for flavour. They attack, but they also defend - and do both with professionalism, excellence and fervour. (Or your money back!)

 

I guess I didn't want to go too over-the-top here, especially because the section could become too suffocating otherwise. I certainly could re-write this section, and I'm glad for the input, certainly.

 

I didn't want to make the Castigators exceed codex size for the First Company. They've a small scout company, as mentioned in the 'organisation' section. I guess it's just tough being a Space Marine chapter.

 

En garde!

Touch Edited December 9, 2006 by Commissar Molotov

[AWOL]

I didn't mean to imply that they weren't codex compatible. They just don't have the near worship for it that the boys in blue have.

 

Maybe an elaboration on the techmarine thing would be more satisfying. Perhaps even a throwaway line about the chapter masters intervening against any openly hostile actions towards them would help. It just seems like to interesting of a thread to leave as is, to me.

 

Like I said, I knew what you meant by the librarian thing. I guess I just missed the sentence where you come right out and say "They don't have any more psychics."

[Commissar Molotov]

As the original Librarians died out, and the Castigators continued to recruit from a world where the pyschic population was eradicated, the chapter began to absorb the Losancan belief system. They could no longer countenance 'witches' sullying the chapter's name, and as such the responsibility of keeping a record of the chapter's history was given to ordinary brother-marines who adopted the role of 'Librarian'.

Does that not make it clear? I can certainly look at editing it if that's the case, but I thought it was implied in that sentence (especially the mention of 'witches') and I didn't want to keep using the word 'psyker'/'psychic' in the paragraph.

 

With regards to the Techmarines, there's the sentence 'It is a duty of the Chapter Master to ensure that these ideological tensions are defused and that no blood is spilt.', but are you suggesting that's not enough? I don't want to give people the wrong impression that squabbling happens all the time. It certainly shouldn't be anything that would prevent the chapter from operating properly. (If the Chapter Master does his job correctly, that is).

 

With the 'near worship' of the Codex, I would imagine that most if not all Chapters do pay it due veneration. It is the cornerstone of all marine tactics, after all. It's hard to say what the Castigators' views on it are. I mean, they do pay worship to Roboute Guilliman and the like. But I certainly wouldn't want to consider the Castigators as 'red Ultramarines'. As long as the Castigators've got a unique and distinct character of their own, I'm happy.

 

And AWOL, you should probably get some sleep. :)

Edited December 9, 2006 by Commissar Molotov

[AWOL]

Probably. Though I note you're still awake as well.

 

Ok, maybe that's strong enough. I still think the techmarine situation is ripe material for a side bar, though.

[Nine_Breaker]

Probably. Though I note you're still awake as well.

The difference here though is that, whether you know it or not, Molotov is (supposedly) a being of pure energy... though the other rumor is that he's a brain in a jar with lots of wires and whatnot connected to it. Take your pick. :D