The Castigators

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Think more of a situation (I know not in 40k, but bear with me) more like the opening sequence of Gladiator. The two armies are facing off, the Germanic tribes have their warcries and gutteral roars yes, but they also have collective things they are saying (I dont speak ancient germanic). I see this working more in the context of this example:

 

Imperial Guard (rebel I suppose) Hold a barricade on a street. They see and hear the approach of enemies. Before the Marines strike they bellow the aformentioned 'warcry'. If I was raised in an Imperial Society, I would believe them be frightened. Given now I think about it a bit more it is becoming more and more unsuitable, though I am going to stick to my guns merely out of stubbornness.

[Commissar Molotov]

Well, the new year has brought www.castigators.com to an end, which actually meant I lost a bunch of information that I wasn't able to back up. Darrell's managed to send me a bunch of stuff he managed to scavenge from google's cached pages, but I'm going to be looking into re-writing and re-editing a slightly newer iteration of the Castigators.

 

As always, feedback is welcomed.

 

 

Keep your eyes peeled! :tu:

Edited January 31, 2008 by Commissar Molotov

[Nash Trickster]

Well, the new year has brought www.castigators.com to an end, which actually meant I lost a bunch of information that I wasn't able to back up.

Have you tried the Web Archive's Wayback Machine? Edited January 31, 2008 by Nash Trickster

[Commissar Molotov]

Mhmm, I tried but it didn't get very far. Most of the pages weren't archived. Darrell managed to send me a fair amount of stuff that he'd managed to salvage through Google's cached pages. I've managed to recover some of the stuff, and to be fair it at least gives me the impetus to rework some of the stuff that I'm missing. In this case, I'm firmly seeing the postitives. ;)

 

The site was useful because it allowed me to collate a lot of information that, whilst useful, would simply make an IA article unwieldy or too self-indulgent. You couldn't really, for example, talk about all ten Company Captains without taking too much time, and asking too much from your reader. The website allowed the reader to take things at his own pace and form his own impressions, I guess. So yes, I found it a useful venture, and I'm certainly hoping to rebuild castigators.com as-and-when I can.

[Commissar Molotov]

I found this today, something I'd thought lost for quite a while. It's a drawing of Sergeant Caetrus (from the fifth company) drawn by Aerion the Faithful and coloured by JTDemon:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v414/jtdemon/caetrus2.jpg

 

I'm looking to detail the Castigators further but I'm at a loss of where to start. Do I detail all the Captains, or the fleet, for example? Any ideas welcome as I begin my quest. :)

 

I did have this piece on some of the Castigators' allies and enemies:

 

In the millennia since their inception, the Castigators have encountered many other forces in the galaxy. Some have become valued allies, others awkward companions due to the Castigators' abrasive natures. Some have become outright enemies, swearing fell oaths against the venerable chapter.

 

The Ultramarines: The Castigators maintain cordial relations with the Ultramarines. It is through the Legion that they share a genetic link to the primarch Roboute Guilliman, and ultimately the Emperor Himself. The Ultramarines view the Castigators as dutiful (if over-zealous) successors and inheritors of their legacy. Many Castigators have been granted permission to conduct pilgrimages to Macragge so that they might pray before the Primarch's body. The Castigators have also contributed squads of marines to the Ultramarines' honour guard at the Eye of Terror ever since the Chapter's creation. Castigator marines have fought in the defence of the Imperium against several of Abaddon's so-called 'black crusades'.

 

The Judicators: The Judicators Space Marine Chapter has long been associated with the Castigators. Both Chapters were created in the fourteenth founding, and have been documented fighting alongside each other on many separate occasions. But while they are Oathbrethren of the Vocates, they do not always get along. The use of Librarians amongst the Judicators has always been a source of tension between the two, but the Judicators often try to minimize this by placing their Librarians in more supportive roles to the Chapter during engagements beside the Castigators. Both chapters are similar in mindset and combat doctrine, both indulging in rituals that are intended to prove self-worth and bring themselves closer to the Emperor. The Castigators do it so they can better emulate the Emperor's purity, while the Judicators constantly aim to be better vessels of his judgment. When the Castigators fight alongside the Judicators, it is a force to be reckoned with.

 

 

The Word Bearers: Of all the Legions that betrayed the Emperor ten millennia ago, one is particularly hated above all others by the Castigators - the sons of Lorgar, the Word Bearers. Some might consider the Castigators and the Word Bearers to be diametrically opposed because they are so similar. Both espouse their respective ideologies with vehemence and a ferocious sense of self-righteousness. Some have even compared the Castigators to the Word Bearers at the height of the Great Crusade. Whilst such comparisons are flawed, they do contain a grain of truth. In the eye of the Castigators, none are so debased as the 'Dark Apostles' of the Word Bearers, once-loyal champions of the Emperor, now fallen to Chaos and turned to vile demagogues.

 

EDIT: I made a minor edit to the IA article in the first post of this thread, and now all the captions and formatting have been thrown off slightly. The edit I made (as far as I know) didn't effect any of the coding relating to the captions... have the captions changed? Should I be using different codes? Let me know.

Edited February 2, 2008 by Commissar Molotov

[krieger haggoroth]

As far as fleshing out goes, i think you should start with "big" stuff. Like the fleet, outlining companies, or stuff like that...

[Sigismund Himself]

Hrrm, we seem to be having difficulties with some of the coding in posts from before the upgrade. It's still fine in the Librarium though. I'll check for a solution. The only way may be to put it into another post.

 

If you don't want to put the additional info into the IA, maybe make a new article/topic with an expansion on the Castigators fluff. Maybe from the viewpoint of an Inquisitorial database?

 

Nice to see more of these guys. Who knows, maybe some of the V-brethren will rise from their slumber? :)

[Commissar Molotov]

Hrrm, we seem to be having difficulties with some of the coding in posts from before the upgrade. It's still fine in the Librarium though. I'll check for a solution. The only way may be to put it into another post.

 

Hrm, weird. I'll try it at some stage, but I would've figured that the old posts would change to the new system once the "edit" button was clicked.

 

If you don't want to put the additional info into the IA, maybe make a new article/topic with an expansion on the Castigators fluff. Maybe from the viewpoint of an Inquisitorial database?

 

Looking into it. The Inquisitorial idea has merit, but then there's a couple of other concepts and ideas I'm working on. I'll try to keep people updated.

 

Nice to see more of these guys. Who knows, maybe some of the V-brethren will rise from their slumber? :)

 

I've been talking to Darrell about it (before his last disappearance) and there's certainly some potential. We had discussed the possibility of using the Harvesters almost as an anti-purity, repudiating everything they once stood for. We wouldn't be able to have a singular, massive campaign like the Akkaddian one, but as they're fleet-based it'd be far more difficult for the Vocates (and the Honour Company) to hunt them down. On the bright side, we wouldn't be limited to trawling the Maelstrom, and there'd be a bunch of Hive Worlds (and billions of mutants) for the Vocates Chapters to chew through... it'd need more discussion, and this isn't really the place for it, but detailing and finishing up the Vocates would certainly be a great achievement.

[Commissar Molotov]

Hrm, interesting. I did a full edit this time (as opposed to the quick edit I did before) and the post snapped back to the old/new sidebars, so they're not as messed up as they were before. I've embarked upon some minor cosmetic changes to the article. I'm considering removing the picture of Hero-Captain Lycidius as it's not really contributing - and it takes up a great deal of space.

[krieger haggoroth]

Not had a chance to read over the IA in great detail left (I will get to it sometimes after class today), but i do think you should keep all of the art it. It makes the article seem a lot more professional and "real". More from me in a while...

[Commissar Molotov]

Hrm. Well, alright. I accidentally managed to delete the sidebar detailing the Redemptors and Contemptors, so if anyone has that, let me know! :devil:

[krieger haggoroth]

Great work, as usual. Three points that i would like to poke at, however:

 

-With all of the chapter's stringentcy on purity, and coupled with the method of recruitment, it seems that the chapter would be well understrength almost always. How many of the world's inhabitants actually take these suicidal quests? How many actually survive their missions to be recruited by the chapter, then of those how many are "pure" enough to join the chapter, then of those how many survive the process of becoming a marine? I'm just thinking that with your wording, it seems as if missions to hunt the mutants are very rare, and that the chapter would have nearly no influx of new recruits.

 

-You say that they tolerate navigators and astropaths, but not Librarians. The Legion Librarius' were also sanctioned and created by the Emperor (the original organizer of the original legions), so I'm not sure i see the reasoning here. Librarians aren't allowed, but navigators and astropaths are?

 

-You mentiond layout earlier. The one thing i'd point out is that some of the pics (namely the chapter symbol) could be sized down to help with aesthetics.

[Kurgan the Lurker]

EDIT: I made a minor edit to the IA article in the first post of this thread, and now all the captions and formatting have been thrown off slightly. The edit I made (as far as I know) didn't effect any of the coding relating to the captions... have the captions changed? Should I be using different codes? Let me know.

 

The only BBCode currently not working are those related to the Caslon Antique (40k Font) Library. The Library hasn't been loaded onto the new server as of yet and as such those particular codes won't work. Everything else should be working.

[Commissar Molotov]

Yeah, thanks, Kurgan. It seemed to fix itself after I edited it in 'full edit' mode rather than 'quick edit' mode. Either way, it's not really an issue now, though I do appreciate you posting.

 

----

 

Krieger, you have some points, but some of them are irrelevant. After all, few Chapters are ever really at full strength. I mention in the gene-seed section that there have been few times in recent years where the Chapter has approached full strength. I see that the reserve companies would typically be smaller, as every effort would be taken in order to keep the battle companies, the fighting strength of the Chapter, at full strength.

 

For the Losancans, you need to consider that this is a people who believes that the existance of the mutants is the only thing preventing the Emperor from returning to the mortal plane. So yes, some of them do go. Does it need to be that regular, when many Chapters seem to recruit every decade, at most? The Space Marines are all about cutting the wheat from the chaff. If you think about it, all Marine Chapters should reruit from Hive Worlds. Some of those planets have trillions of people living on them. But yet they don't. There's a suspension of disbelief issue there, I think.

 

Regarding the Emperor, it really depends. In some versions of the fluff, the Emperor actually outlawed Librarians, but the Heresy happened before the dictate could be enforced, and it never was. Either way, it's mostly irrelevant. The Castigators don't have Librarians. But they couldn't function without navigators and astropaths. Neither could the Black Templars. Ultimately, it's one of those contradictions in belief that make fools of religious zealots. I've said before the Castigators have influences from Nazi Germany, or from religious zealots of all stripes. The point is that zealots have remarkable ways of ignoring the obvious flaws that undermine their arguments. They hate psykers? The Emperor is a psyker. It's a funny issue that is part of the dark and tragic ironies that really define the Imperium.

 

EDIT: I edited the IA, rearranged some of the pictures, and reduced the Chapter symbol in size.

Edited February 7, 2008 by Commissar Molotov

[Commissar Molotov]

Hrm, well I've extensively altered the article layout; I've altered the picture of Renatus, removed the picture of Lycidius, added in another picture that looks pretty cool; on the whole it should be interesting, so check it out.

 

 

Warning: Not only is this post pic-heavy, it's probably five minutes of your life you won't get back. Proceed with caution! :P

 

 

Now for another, slightly more existential angsty crisis: What colour are the Castigators?

 

 

The first picture of the Castigators was this one, drawn by Penitent Dreadnought and coloured by Tubal:

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/Castigator07.gif

 

After that, Tiberius drew the pic of Renatus and the Chapter symbol:

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/Renatus2.pnghttp://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/castigatorbadge9yf.jpg

 

As you can see, these are two very different reds. The one Tubal used is perhaps closer to red gore, a more 'purple' red.

 

I was looking at this, by Scally, featuring the Castigators and their Oathbrethren, the Judicators:

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/JuCas.png

 

As you can see, Scally's kept closer to Tubal's colours in this, although not here:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g119/Scallyscanlon/Castigators/CastigatorsRhinoTransport.gif

 

I was fiddling around and altered the saturation on the Castigators/Judicators pic, and came up with this:

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/JuCas1.png

 

As you can see, slightly different:

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/hues.png

 

Though perhaps closer to Tiberius' version:

 

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/huesbadge1.png

 

To further complicate the issue, Fabricator-General seems to've gone with a different red for his Castigators:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/Cormack/Castigators/DSCF1898.jpg

 

Whilst Aerion and JTDemon have different reds for their Castigators:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v414/jtdemon/caetrus2.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d61/aerion_the_faithful/SergeantCaetrus-Finished.jpg

 

So I'm thoughtful, here, and I'd like your considered opinions. Crimson? Scarlet? Blood-red? What colour are the Castigators? Is a lighter red too reminiscent of the Blood Angels?

[Espada Azul]

I think I prefer the neutral red used in Scally's presentation. The bright red paint job does remind me too much of the Blood Angels, however, if you do it too dark I get reminded of the Blood Ravens instead.

[Nine_Breaker]

I'm partial to the red on Renatus, whatever you might call that one.

[utilityzero]

i like the early sort of subdued red, the 'more purple' red i think you said. it's different and it i just think it looks good.

[Tyrannicide]

I like the scarlet clad warriors, the Castigators should be.

 

My vote would go to Aerion's style red.

[Guest Mordray]

I personally think the darker red of the first image is the better choice as it gives a much more unique feel instead of just 'yet another crimson/red chapter' as typically, imho, most of the brighter/lighter reds are over used.

[Aerion the Faithful]

Well...

Its been ages since I've posted on a thread here in the boards (and one that isn't mine even!), but this caught my eye, as there is art posted here that I've done for the Castigators ^_^.

As I was tellung Molotov just this afternoon I also advocate for the darker red, as the brighter one reminds me too much of the Blood Angels, and The Emperor knows there's a lot fo those around... the problem, as I see it, lies in the rendering of such dark red. I understand Molotov's concern about it becoming 'purpl-ish', because that's what often happens when you mix pigments, instead of light. When you're working traditionally, the pigments used in markers, pencils, or even watercolours are all derived from the earth one way or another, and that tends to mutate the clours when you mix them; especially when mixing a colour AND black or white, which are tones.

Note that, when working with digital, you're mixing light, throuh a monitor, and thus can achieve a darker red without going purple. Thus, the question is: what colour should the castigators be if we want to translate that colour as faithfully as we can both in light and pigment colouring? Personally, and speaking as a traditional artist, I still say the dark red. I've found ways around the muted mixes and I can now achieve a better red, that doesn't turn 'purple' when mixing it with gray and I think that can be done too when painting miniatures, depending on the skill of the painter, so...

 

That's my two cents.

 

I don't know if I made sense, but, bottom line: dark red. Totally.

 

Until soon.

 

Aerion the Faithful

[krieger haggoroth]

I like the Fabricator General one, and the aerion the faithful one. Somewhere in between perhaps? I don't realy like the idea of the purple-ish red on these guys. The way i see it, the castiagtors are an extremist chapter, and i think a more solid color (aka, not a mix of purple and red) is in order.

[SeerBrun]

I'm going to have to throw in my vote with the darker shade of red, though the only thing I have (yet) to contribute to this chapter is in grey-scale!

 

PS: I need to come up with a name for that guy too... something impressive, since he probably will be drawn again. B)

[Commissar Molotov]

I'm going to have to throw in my vote with the darker shade of red, though the only thing I have (yet) to contribute to this chapter is in grey-scale!

 

PS: I need to come up with a name for that guy too... something impressive, since he probably will be drawn again. :)

 

He was Hero-Captain Lycidius, as I understood it. B) I wrote up a background for him.

[SeerBrun]

I'm going to have to throw in my vote with the darker shade of red, though the only thing I have (yet) to contribute to this chapter is in grey-scale!

 

PS: I need to come up with a name for that guy too... something impressive, since he probably will be drawn again. :D

 

He was Hero-Captain Lycidius, as I understood it. :) I wrote up a background for him.

Oh, the last time I was at your page (when it was up) I didn't notice him as having been named and here you've named him and killed him all in one fell stroke. Is there a year of his death? I was rather planning on using him for something... I think you know what I mean. Hostile challenge. If it was relatively "recent" that would be cool.

 

I did read a bit about his exploits though. Is there more?