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Ah, dangit. I hate it when that happens - when you come up with something on your own and find out someone else has taken it. I have Hero-Captain Lycidius, Dan Abnett has Hero-Captain Phobor. I have First-Captain Escalus, and apparently there's a First-Captain in the Horus Heresy books.

 

Ah well. The issues I raised on the last page (the heraldry/banners, the weaponry/equipment, the names for the fleet) are all things that have perplexed me for a while, so I don't expect anyone to just have a blinding flash of brilliance. It's typically a case of slowly working out the best course of action.

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Ah, dangit. I hate it when that happens - when you come up with something on your own and find out someone else has taken it. I have Hero-Captain Lycidius, Dan Abnett has Hero-Captain Phobor. I have First-Captain Escalus, and apparently there's a First-Captain in the Horus Heresy books.

Yeah I get that one quite often too. We have to accept that most ideas were already thought up and in most cases only thing we can do is to give them a good twist :D

Barret was actually saying I should give Chapter Master Quintilius a 'power scourge'.

I like the idea of power scourge as chapter masters weapon

Edited by Keyoz Devastrius
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"We are the Emperor's will made manifest!"

 

A bit long-winded for a battlecry, IMO. Especially since the "made manifest" part would be very obvious once they smack somebody.

 

OK, I'm just being picky. :)

 

As with fully two-thirds of all Space Marine Chapters,

 

This is more or less a direct quote from...Codex: Space Marines (3e), I believe. It really throws me out of the article, since I recognize it immediately. Use your own words, man. It's not like you don't know how. :lol:

 

If it is your own words...well, it still feels like you're quoting Codex: SM.

 

The reasons for these measures would seem to be rooted in the after-effects of the thirteenth Astartes founding, the so-called 'Dark Founding'. All records of this tumultuous time have long since been eradicated or lost, leaving behind only assumption and supposition. Few know exactly what transpired during this period of Imperial history, and none seem prepared to divulge their secrets. Still, it is clear that the Imperium's focus on genetic purity appears to have deeply affected the Castigators to this day.

 

I was under the impression the Dark Founding was a normal founding, which was very large, and that the records were destroyed. Your comments above almost implies that something sinister and evil was at work - which dilutes the Cursed Founding's sinister and evil aspects, in my view. In fact, this is actually mentioned in the DIY Chapter thread as something not to get confused about.

 

Many of the planet's highest peaks were swathed in ice.

 

Er, if it's tidally-locked - wouldn't ALL of the night side pretty much be covered in ice? After all, it will be very, very, very cold. As in, Mercury (which is not actually tidally-locked, merely very close), gets down to about -200 on the night side.

 

Life was an unending struggle against the elements for survival, a struggle that ensured only the strongest could survive. Food was scarce, grown by dim moonlight in areas where streams of warm air reached the dark-side.

 

This place has a breathable atmosphere? How? OK, you don't need to explain that one. I'll buy it the once.

 

Also, there exists the possibility of relatively normal life in the border between night and day sides.

 

By contrast, those few cursed individuals that existed in the eternal day were mutated almost beyond recognition.

 

I really don't see how that would be possible. Maybe in the border between night and day, but certainly not out on the day-side proper.

 

Seriously. It would be HOT.

 

Honestly, this is a serious flaw with the chapter. It kills my suspension of disbelief (and in 40K, that takes a little bit of doing).

 

A tidally-locked world would simply not be livable in the way you describe. Digging underground or living in the dusk and dawn zones might be possible (might. I am no expert, and we don't have any tidally locked worlds to check), but existence on the day or night sides would be frankly impossible - MAYBE in heavily armored and insulated bunkers, but there certainly wouldn't be travel.

 

The other option would be "almost tidally locked", wherein the people are forced to lead a nomadic existence in the comfortable temperature zone (which moves as the planet rotates). However, that would probably turn into Mad Max pretty quickly. Or you could do bunkers for the good folks and nomadic for the bad (which is REALLY Mad Max).

 

I like everything else so far, but the whole tidally-locked thing is a serious problem.

 

Librarians

 

This section is a golden opportunity to use the term Scriptorium. Just as an aside.

 

It has been noted by Imperial observers that the Castigators tolerate both the Astropaths and those of the Navigator Gene. This has led some to criticise the Castigators' belief system as hypocritical. The Castigators roundly refute such allegations, arguing that both institutions were created and sanctioned by the Emperor - just as the Adeptus Astartes were.

 

But then, so were the Librarians.

 

Good stuff. My only real quibbles are with the homeworld (though those are big ones). Though I really did want to see Korhal mentioned at least once. ;)

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I don't pretend to be an astrologist. But you seem to be saying 'dayside = hot, nightside = cold'.

 

Fine, but what if the planet was the same distance away from the sun as pluto? Would the day side then be equally as hot?

 

I don't think so.

 

In that case, it's theoretically possible that the planet could be close enough to sustain life, but not close enough to burn away every single thing on the planet. Right?

 

After all, it's hot in the sahara desert, but people can survive. People in Australia can get skin cancer from exposure to the sun. If Losanco Secundus was as close to the sun as Earth is, it strikes me that the bright side would be dangerous, but not unlivable.

 

And ultimately, this is an environment where we use .75 cal bolts, we summon Warp magic to our aid, we can run around in oversized armour and fight sword against sword with mechanical living dead. 40k isn't science-fiction, it's space fantasy. And that's not entirely an excuse, because I don't want to excuse gaping inconsistency, but it's fiction. Sometimes those gaping coincidences (just in the right part of the solar system and just able to support life and somehow capable of producing Space Marines) happen. That's the suspension of disbelief.

 

And I guess I could palm it off by saying "one cynic thinks it doesn't work, dozens of people have read it, accepted it, and enjoyed it." But I'm keen to at least make some overture towards satisfying you--looking to modify the concept. Ultimately, the homeworld is one of the elements that contributes most towards the Castigators.

 

My conception was that the humans would live in the 'twilight zone' near the light side, but sheltered in the dark. There's a quote by Barret elsewhere in this thread...

 

[Perhaps] similarly to the Twi'leks, they live primarly in the twilight zone (dun dun dunnnn) between night and day, staying out of the radiated day side, but far enough out of the night side to avoid freezing. In my mind, that last would make their plight much more dramatic and precarious, literaly caught between the light and dark, between mutation and freezing doom. I really like this, and I think it's a very iconic element of the 40k universe. Freedom and liberty are the doom of mankind and, here, daylight is death and nighttime little safer.

 

EDIT:

 

But then, so were the Librarians.

 

Depending on the fluff, the Emperor gave the order for Librarians to be disbanded at the Council of Nikaea. The edict was never carried out. Regardless - I've written elsewhere that I intend for those gaping inconsistencies to exist. In that sense, it's not a mistake. The Castigators are bigots and hypocrites - part of their charm - and they're utterly blind to it. It's meant to be a comment on religious fundamentalism. <_<

Edited by Commissar Molotov
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I don't pretend to be an astrologist. But you seem to be saying 'dayside = hot, nightside = cold'.

 

A masterful summation. And I really hope you mean astronomer, since all astrologists are pretending. :pinch:

 

Fine, but what if the planet was the same distance away from the sun as pluto? Would the day side then be equally as hot?

 

Probably not. In which case, you're fine. Though the night side would be totally unlivable. (Seriously - Mercury rotates AND is right next to the sun, and it gets well below zero). So no having them on the night side, or it will go hard for you.

 

After all, it's hot in the sahara desert, but people can survive. People in Australia can get skin cancer from exposure to the sun. If Losanco Secundus was as close to the sun as Earth is, it strikes me that the bright side would be dangerous, but not unlivable.

 

Actually, you'd probably need to be further away than Earth's distance. Part of the reason we're a comfortable temperature is that we rotate so damn quickly (I think we may have the shortest day in the solar systme. We're down there, that's for sure). Witness Mercury again. Our fast rotation keeps the night from cooling too much, and the day from heating too much.

 

And ultimately, this is an environment where we use .75 cal bolts, we summon Warp magic to our aid, we can run around in oversized armour and fight sword against sword with mechanical living dead. 40k isn't science-fiction, it's space fantasy.

 

Hey, I never said it made SENSE that this bit threw me. Perhaps it's that I cannot rationally disprove the Warp or Power Armor (which rely on things we cannot see), but I can see the flaws with living on the night side of a tidally locked world pretty quickly.

 

And suspension of disbelief is always best at its minimum.

 

I have strange priorities. <_<

 

My conception was that the humans would live in the 'twilight zone' near the light side, but sheltered in the dark. There's a quote by Barret elsewhere in this thread...

 

See, that's fine. And barret's quote is quite correct (and much more eloquent, into the bargain).

 

All you really need is a throwaway line about how the distance from the sun keeps the planet cool enough to be livable for people who don't mind having extra arms, and to make it clear that the NORMAL people are living in the twilight zone (wow. Still fun to type) of the planet, as opposed to the night side proper, and my doubts are put to rest.

 

Depending on the fluff, the Emperor gave the order for Librarians to be disbanded at the Council of Nikaea. The edict was never carried out. Regardless - I've written elsewhere that I intend for those gaping inconsistencies to exist. In that sense, it's not a mistake. The Castigators are bigots and hypocrites - part of their charm - and they're utterly blind to it. It's meant to be a comment on religious fundamentalism. smile.gif

 

So long as *they're* being blind and irrational, not you. ;)

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It sems for Sirius you want a name with connatations to the sunburst. So it got me thinking, the Castigators seem to be very well bring the Emperor's light to me. So I thought about it and with the help of the Horus Heresy series I came up with the Sword of Illumination . It is connected with Sirius' Sunburst as well as connecting to one of the Castigators' under-lying themes which i think is quite important.So, what do you think? Edited by Ferrus Manus
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Right, right, Astronomer. I sat down to type, and was "It's astro-something..."--that'll teach me not to reply when tired. ;)

 

I didn't understand your assertation that it's the speed of rotation that makes Earth livable. In GW fluff there's the planet Mordian, which, like mine, is half eternal night, half eternal day. GW, like me, has no sense of accurate astronomy. Now I understand the issue. It's perplexing, to be sure.

 

In truth, I've never watched Mad Max. But I did have the idea originally of the planet rotating quicker and the settlers moving to stay in the 'twilight zone', the livable equator between light and dark. I dropped it because it didn't entirely inspire me. But it seems you approve of Barret's quote? My idea was that they would live in the twilight zone. There's (large) portions of the night side which are frozen solid. And portions of the day-side where the sun could kill you. But between "super hot" and "super cold" there must be a medium, right? Harsh and inhospitable, but somewhat livable? My idea was that the mutated bands would live close to the twilight zone themselves, just on the day side. They would be raiding into the human settlements, forcing the humans to defend themselves - even to undertake punitive/pre-emptive raids against them to eliminate their filth.

 

As to the insertion of the throwaway line, I'll see - though I thought it was clear that the normal people lived in the darkness? I'll fiddle around with that section anyway. I've been planning to expand the homeworld section slightly to detail those that hunt for the mutants. Whilst it's IA: Castigators and not IA: Losanco, I think it might help give a little bit more depth to the Chapter's mindset.

 

So, anything else to nit-pick? :lol:

 

---

 

Ferrus - 'Sword of Illumination' is actually a really good wordplay. For that reason, I like it, but I can't help there's getting to be a few too many "Sword of"s and "Blade of"s in the Chapter. I'm still considering it. I'm hoping it'll just eventually 'click'. With that said, I may steal 'Sword of Illumination' as a name for a Battle-Barge or the like.

 

Krieger (if you're out there): I checked the BFG PDFs, and found a list of some squadron names for escorts:

 

Russ's Claws (Space Wolves)

Black Talons (Raven Guard)

Hera's Wraths (Ultramarines)

Angelus Belarius Squad (Blood Angels)

Obliterators (Silver Skulls)

Circes (Ultramarines)

Arx-Praetora (Ultramarines)

Dark Knights of Caliban (Dark Angels)

Holy Shields (White Consuls)

Invictas (Ultramarines)

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I didn't understand your assertation that it's the speed of rotation that makes Earth livable. In GW fluff there's the planet Mordian, which, like mine, is half eternal night, half eternal day. GW, like me, has no sense of accurate astronomy. Now I understand the issue. It's perplexing, to be sure.

 

Mordia makes me angry. It's so very, very wrong. It should not work as it is. And it would be easy to make it work (domed cities. Done).

 

In truth, I've never watched Mad Max. But I did have the idea originally of the planet rotating quicker and the settlers moving to stay in the 'twilight zone', the livable equator between light and dark. I dropped it because it didn't entirely inspire me.

 

I know what you mean. It feels familiar for some reason, even though the only place I can even think of something similar is in Heir to the Empire (by Zahn).

 

But it seems you approve of Barret's quote? My idea was that they would live in the twilight zone. There's (large) portions of the night side which are frozen solid. And portions of the day-side where the sun could kill you. But between "super hot" and "super cold" there must be a medium, right? Harsh and inhospitable, but somewhat livable? My idea was that the mutated bands would live close to the twilight zone themselves, just on the day side. They would be raiding into the human settlements, forcing the humans to defend themselves - even to undertake punitive/pre-emptive raids against them to eliminate their filth.

 

Perfect. For some reason, the existing IA created the impression that they lived on the night-side proper - which simply is not possible, since it is colder than the heart of an accountant.

 

Your idea as you express it here works fine. Especially if the planet is sufficiently far away from its sun to make the day side only really, really hot, instead of insanely and lead-meltingly hot.

 

As to the insertion of the throwaway line, I'll see - though I thought it was clear that the normal people lived in the darkness?

 

It is. It's just not clear that they live in the twilight-darkness as opposed to the so-cold-nothing-could-survive darkness.

 

So, anything else to nit-pick? smile.gif

 

Nope, that's the extent of it.

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Well, Mordia was written solidly within the confines of Second Edition, when the world was young and 40k so much less sophisticated. I also believe it was hinted there was some sort of supernatural justification for the planet. Either way. It's pretty irrelevant, so I opt to banish Mordia from our future conversations!

 

I can't make a claim to have read Heir of the Empire, either. I might check it out.

 

As for the IA, I'll certainly make some changes to relate that they live on the 'equator' (for lack of a better term).

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I love the back story on the Losancans, themselves. It really gives you more information, and depth on the dark-siders too. The bit about the small bands of Losancans, travelling to the bright side of the planet, is cool. ;)

 

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u54/pumpkinpenguin/tuskenraider.jpg

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I'm hoping to expand it furhter, to discuss the Chaplains stopping parties in the scorched deserts as they return, taking the boys in return for food and basic technologies that make their lives marginally easier (without disrupting natural selection too much.) I also want to focus more on why the Losancans choose to take their lives into their own hands and travel into the light side.

 

I'm also hoping to allay Octavulg's concerns about making it seem the Losancans live all across the dark-side.

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Desperately attempting to avoid the major project I start tomorrow...here's my pitches for Sirius' sword name.

 

1. Resplendent Absolution

2. Atrox Solaris (Terrible Sun)

 

Not sure if they're any good, but at least they're original.

 

Also, could the Losancan's that live on the dark side seek refuge in subterranean cave systems? Just enough tech for lighting and food would be all they'd need. Just a thought.

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It appeared that millennia ago, an Imperial vessel had crashed onto Losanco.

 

If you wanted to REALLY play up the fanatical elements, they could have migrated intentionally. Mutants'd be the heretics and schismatics.

 

The descendents of those few survivors clung to the barely habitable dark-side, surviving on the last remnants of the failing technology, subjected to the intense cold. Many of the planet's highest peaks were swathed in ice.

 

We've been over my views on this part of it. :ph34r: Rather to death, in my mind.

 

But let's recap: Twilight zone is much more believable than living in other sections - mention it. Living a bit on each is possible, but it should be mentioned that the planet is a long way from the sun. Underground tunnels on the nightside provoke shades of Valhalla (the planet, not the afterlife).

 

Babies showing even the most minor of malformations were hurriedly and quietly killed by their own mothers or families, such was the stigma of giving birth to a mutant offspring.

 

Have you ever read Wyndham's The Chrysalids? All sorts of inspiration for a similar situation, I suspect.

 

If one is found worthy, the Chaplain will approach the warband and take the child to become one of His angels.

 

This sounds like a very slow recruitment method. And one that requires a lot of Chaplains. It's a wonderful idea (which would make a good short story), but I would have reservations about just how many recruits you could get this way.

 

Looks good.

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This sounds like a very slow recruitment method. And one that requires a lot of Chaplains. It's a wonderful idea (which would make a good short story), but I would have reservations about just how many recruits you could get this way.

 

Looks good.

Of course it would, but if you saw the Castigators recruitment methods, and demands for purity, it would explain itself.
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Of course it would, but if you saw the Castigators recruitment methods, and demands for purity, it would explain itself.

 

It makes sense. I just question whether it would be effective enough (considering the assumedly small size of the planet and the limited number of people who are acceptable recruits, plus the limited numbers who survive training) to even approach keeping up with losses.

 

Of course, I'm rather nitpicky.

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It appeared that millennia ago, an Imperial vessel had crashed onto Losanco.

 

If you wanted to REALLY play up the fanatical elements, they could have migrated intentionally. Mutants'd be the heretics and schismatics.

 

Maybe we'll never know what happened. Perhaps it was sabotage...

 

The descendents of those few survivors clung to the barely habitable dark-side, surviving on the last remnants of the failing technology, subjected to the intense cold. Many of the planet's highest peaks were swathed in ice.

 

We've been over my views on this part of it. :D Rather to death, in my mind.

 

But let's recap: Twilight zone is much more believable than living in other sections - mention it. Living a bit on each is possible, but it should be mentioned that the planet is a long way from the sun. Underground tunnels on the nightside provoke shades of Valhalla (the planet, not the afterlife).

 

I think it's more the case that my writing provoked a misunderstanding. That just needs re-working so that it's clear the night-side is just as lethal as the dark, and that they live in the twilight zone.

 

 

Babies showing even the most minor of malformations were hurriedly and quietly killed by their own mothers or families, such was the stigma of giving birth to a mutant offspring.

 

Have you ever read Wyndham's The Chrysalids? All sorts of inspiration for a similar situation, I suspect.

 

I hadn't, no. My inspiration there was China, actually - the babies being drowned in the paddy-fields and such. Any baby not deemed 'useful'. Though it's awesome food for thought to imagine a latent psyker manifesting his powers and the Losancans trying to put him down, at great cost.

 

This sounds like a very slow recruitment method. And one that requires a lot of Chaplains. It's a wonderful idea (which would make a good short story), but I would have reservations about just how many recruits you could get this way.

 

I don't believe it requires a lot of Chaplains. I agree with you on the "just how many recruits?" - but that's something I wanted to highlight, to make these running battles between lightsiders and darksiders more regular, to really ferment the hatred between the two.

 

The thing is we have very little evidence regarding how many initiates a Chapter needs. The third edition Codex suggested that in optimal conditions, 17% of neophytes would become Marines. This is one situation where you'd have to have suspension of disbelief. Plus, it's something you could level at nearly every single DIY here on the board, apart from those that suction up recruits from hiveworlds.

 

Thanks for the imput, though, Octavulg. It's certainly helped shape my thoughts. (And it'll help me Octavulg-proof my homeworld.)

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The Losancans saw the Castigators' actions and came to see them as terrible angels, ferocious emissaries of a God-Emperor that watches over ceaselessly to ensure they carry out their divine task - the purification of their homeworld.
How? All we know so far is that the Castigators have made their "Sanctuary" on the planets moon. Have they been down to the planet and appeared before the Losancans? This isn't mentioned.

If you wanted the hunting parties to become more regular, perhaps you could mention that the Castigators had made some hunting parties of their own, and shown the Losacans how to do it their way. That way, the Losancans could aspire to become these terrible angels, sending out more and more parties in their attempt to be one of them.

 

Anyway, just some food for thought. Hope it helps

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  • 5 weeks later...

Well, it's the 24th of April here, which means that it's been a year since I opened this thread, detailing the latest iteration of the Castigators. So Happy Birthday Castigators!

 

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/Castigators/Cas_Chappy_Low.jpg

 

The Castigators have been quiet for a bit. I've been doing a lot of behind-the-scenes work on a new Castigators website, which I hope to have online as soon as possible. As part of the process of creation, I've been looking at other DIY Chapter websites, including Chaptermaster Graymantle's Guardian Angels, Chaplain Desmodus's Flesh Eaters and Daeothar's Fiery Lions. I'm well aware that such sites can be very... gratuitious, catering to a small clique of people interested in the Chapter in question. What sort of things would you want to see included? I'm hoping to include as much as possible, in an attempt to provide a cohesive resource on these lovable scarlet-clad zealots. But I'd also like to provide things that'd be useful for other DIY Creators. I had begun working on a "designer's notes", which provided some of my viewpoints of Chapter creation and such.

 

I hope to have some previews for you over the weekend. In the meantime, any feedback on that would be certainly appreciated.

 

- Mol.

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Well seeing not many have replied, I'll go next. First of all Tiberius did an awesome job, on Argentus. It really captures the feel, of a Castigator chaplain.

 

Personally, i'd be interested in "profile" type pages. Outlining each company, special characters, vessels, etc.
Agreed. The website simply needs this 'section'.

 

Cosmetic Appearance:

I think that the 'black thorn bands' should definitely carry over, to the final product, of the site. I think it would make it very visually appealing. The basic layout would look nice, with a side bar, with mini-menus, or something that 'slides' out. What would the basic background color be? I'm guessing a flat scarlet-red? A miniaturized version of the Chaplain drawing, above in your post in grey scale (or in this case a 'black scale') could look amazing and pull the site together, if it was applied to a bottom corner, in the background. It doesn’t have to be that drawing, but some image would look great. Perhaps a version of the chapter symbol?

 

Actual Sections:

I think the website needs a section detailing slightly more on the Losancans and their home world. More on these subjects, would never hurt. Another option or addition would be to include a basic format on the steps of how a Losancan becomes a Castigator Space Marine. Obviously they go through the tedious trials and such, but I would like to somehow go farther in depth, and show a basic marine’s progression from basic recruit/neophyte, to full blown ‘Battle Brother’, and beyond.

Edited by Darth Potato
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  • 2 weeks later...
Personally, i'd be interested in "profile" type pages. Outlining each company, special characters, vessels, etc.

 

 

Actual Sections:

I think the website needs a section detailing slightly more on the Losancans and their home world. More on these subjects, would never hurt. Another option or addition would be to include a basic format on the steps of how a Losancan becomes a Castigator Space Marine. Obviously they go through the tedious trials and such, but I would like to somehow go farther in depth, and show a basic marine’s progression from basic recruit/neophyte, to full blown ‘Battle Brother’, and beyond.

 

 

Going off of what Darth Potato said, i think you should expand the basic IA, giving each section it's own "page" or whatever within. So have a history page, organization, etc. etc.

 

 

Those are all good ideas, and they all coincide with things I was planning. I'm hoping to have a separate pages for each of the ordinary sections in an Index Astartes article. Any of you that remember the last site will remember I had something very similar. Though the section which'll be craziest is the Organisation page. I'm hoping to make that pretty cool.

 

My plans also include a timeline/famous campaigns, famous Castigators, allies/enemies - a downloads option for Castigators in the various games (Dawn of War/Teardown's Hulk game...) and an artwork gallery. I've also been considering a Castigator version of the 'Insignium Astartes'.

 

The idea of pages for each Company is something I'm very keen on. To me, a Company of Space Marines is almost like a Chapter within a Chapter. Shaped deeply by its Captain, every Company has garnered its own glories and honours, its own preferences and bitter enemies. So I'm slowly building on it. Something else I was trying to do is to incorporate the politicking that goes on within the Chapter between the more zealous and the more moderate factions of belief. Within a Chapter there are bound to be rivalries and politicking between Companies and Officers. Especially in the Castigators, with the tension between radicals and moderates. I think people can do a lot with things like that without needing to resort to "Chapter Civil War" or the like. Sometimes we seem to approach the Astartes as thousands of perfect clones that think the same and act the same and would all do the same in any given situation. Such difference helps define them as characters within a rich fictional world.

 

I'm hoping to get banners and the like drawn up for each of the Companies.

 

It's a long-term project but it should be immensely rewarding.

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That would be a great start. I would suggest that on each company page you might include sections like:

Company banner

Company army badges and what battle they are related to

Company allies and enemies

Company breakdown of marks of power armour

Company relics

Noted company personalities

List of battles that the company fought in

Company beliefs (zealous or moderate?)

Company trials for new recruits

Company perfered tactics and/or weapons

Company rituals and celebrations

 

Also i agree with darth potato, about the transition from recruit to battle brother. Maybe even detailing the trials that they go through. Maybe the recruit needs to earn each piece of power armour by completing a test (Knowledge, skill, strength, ect.) or enemy. Just ideas.

 

I have been keeping an eye on the Castigators. I am eagerly awaiting the new website.

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