ForTheLion Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 im agreeing with the above post :) even if they werent pure loyalists they werent shallow primarchs like guiliman, they have depth and a twisted sense of honour. I mean Rus , Lion and Horus had around equal tally of victories. Sang was the avatar of Honor and reason, angron was a gladiator, guili was a paper burocrat. You're a sadly wrong person, from Greece no less.... how bizarre. :rolleyes: you know what they say :) If you have too much of something you end up disliking it more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilcin Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Well, it IS Sanguinius' fault the Blood Angles are vampires....his death cursed them. Not necessarily, it can be argued that their process of turning initiates into space marines could be the root cause. Back on Topic, my favorite is Alpharius/Omegon; I like the planning, including all experts regardless of origins. The sneaky, underhanded, are they working for chaos or not angle? Just sounds like so much fun. My second favorite is Sanguinius, for the noble angel that sacrificed himself knowingly to stop Horus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 That doesn't even make sense unless they bled his corpse dry. The blood of Sanguinius that they have wouldn't be cursed, it's a psychic curse affecting Marines with his geneseed. That's why BA successor who DON'T drink blood go berzerker "I'm the reincarnation of Sanguinius" crazy too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argon Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I like Lorgar. Why? I like him because he did what he was good at and what he truly loved, only to have the person he worshipped fanatically tell him "Stop worshipping me. Heck, don't worship me. Go conquer worlds instead." Put yourself in Lorgar's shoes. Wouldn't you be utterly crushed? If the False Emperor hadn't been an idiot, the Horus Heresy never would have happened. He brought it upon himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 The Wolves were far off in the galaxy because The Emperor sent them to burn Prospero. Actually, IIRC, the Emperor only sent Russ to bring the Thousand Sons back to Earth so he could sit down with Magnus and have a little talk. Horus, while Russ was in transit, informed the Wolves that the new order was to slay Magnus and burn Prospero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Caverstein Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Has to be Rogal Dorn Partially because he reminds me to the knights in shiny armour of old and Patially because we are quite similar in attitude:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilcin Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 That doesn't even make sense unless they bled his corpse dry. The blood of Sanguinius that they have wouldn't be cursed, it's a psychic curse affecting Marines with his geneseed. That's why BA successor who DON'T drink blood go berzerker "I'm the reincarnation of Sanguinius" crazy too. Who says they didn't bleed him dry? His blood was very important in the Blood Angels rituals and draining his blood after his death would be just like the church using the bones of saints after their deaths. I'm glad you bring up the Flesh Tearers; you appear to be combining the two flaws in the genetic seed of Blood Angels, the Black Rage and Red Thirst. Do the Flesh Tearers suffer from the Black Rage? Yes, the have it worse of the bunch. Do they suffer from the Red Thirst? Not from what I read, and if so, no where on the scale of the Blood Angels; it's the Red Thirst that makes Blood Angels vampires. In the Flesh Tearers Index Astartes it does not say they suffer from the Red Thirst, just that they are bloodthirsty in battle which means they eager to kill in battle. This difference could be attributed to not drinking blood/blood transfusions in their process of changing recruits into marines. Course, they don't spell out the process Flesh Tearers do use to make their marines. Also in the Flesh Tearers Index Astartes article, they refer to the Black Rage as the 'Curse of Horus' not the 'Curse of Sanguinius' because they believe Horus inflicted Sanguinius with unimaginable psychic damage. Horus, in his limitless malice, made sure that Sanguinius's death was the most painful and foul that the boundless evils in his service could administer. The Warmaster's psychic assault echoed not just throughout space, but also throughout time, resonating in the souls of his children. So, one can say that the Black Rage is Horus's fault, not Sanguinius's. Lamenters, one of the most recent of the Blood Angels successor chapters does not suffer from the Black Rage or Red Thirst which could be attributed to the greater passage of time from Sanguinius's death before the founding of the chapter and not using the practice of blood transfusions for new recruits. So, in short I believe that the Black Rage was caused by the death of Sanguinius imprinting the geneseed of the Blood Angels and that the Red Thirst is caused by the blood transfusions using impure blood and/or having a negative reaction on the imprinted geneseed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperialis_Dominatus Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Killed Alpharius in one attack... One of 'em got one hit killed tho. Supposedly. it's funny, all of you like the lion and russ, yet they're not the most key loyalist primarchs. What do you mean by key? Well, it IS Sanguinius' fault the Blood Angles are vampires....his death cursed them. More Horus' fault than anyone. Some of them were kind of cool for a while but their chapters ended up folloiwng the smurfs lead all but verbatim in most cases so they really don't have much to make them interesting. Eh. What organization a force uses doesn't determine how interesting they are. There's so much more to a Chapter than following the Codex, Legion structures, or Fenrisian wisdom. Actually, IIRC, the Emperor only sent Russ to bring the Thousand Sons back to Earth so he could sit down with Magnus and have a little talk.Horus, while Russ was in transit, informed the Wolves that the new order was to slay Magnus and burn Prospero. Yep. And I think asking nicely for the Thousand Sons to come along and go to Terra so the Emperor can talk to them would delay the Wolves far less and potentially debilitate their strength than ordering them to kill them off. Lamenters, one of the most recent of the Blood Angels successor chapters does not suffer from the Black Rage or Red Thirst which could be attributed to the greater passage of time from Sanguinius's death before the founding of the chapter and not using the practice of blood transfusions for new recruits. More likely whatever tampering happened in the Cursed Founding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Rex Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I can find things to like about them all... I am not a one to throw hate at any of them, not even Guilliman who it seems cool to despise. :lol: But my top three are 1) Dorn, 2) Sanguinius and I suppose 3) Curze. I have to go with Dorn really. I thought he was so good as a good guy that I had to see how he would do as a bad guy when I started the Dornian Heresy project. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 That doesn't even make sense unless they bled his corpse dry. The blood of Sanguinius that they have wouldn't be cursed, it's a psychic curse affecting Marines with his geneseed. That's why BA successor who DON'T drink blood go berzerker "I'm the reincarnation of Sanguinius" crazy too. Who says they didn't bleed him dry? His blood was very important in the Blood Angels rituals and draining his blood after his death would be just like the church using the bones of saints after their deaths. I'm glad you bring up the Flesh Tearers; you appear to be combining the two flaws in the genetic seed of Blood Angels, the Black Rage and Red Thirst. Do the Flesh Tearers suffer from the Black Rage? Yes, the have it worse of the bunch. Do they suffer from the Red Thirst? Not from what I read, and if so, no where on the scale of the Blood Angels; it's the Red Thirst that makes Blood Angels vampires. In the Flesh Tearers Index Astartes it does not say they suffer from the Red Thirst, just that they are bloodthirsty in battle which means they eager to kill in battle. This difference could be attributed to not drinking blood/blood transfusions in their process of changing recruits into marines. Course, they don't spell out the process Flesh Tearers do use to make their marines. Also in the Flesh Tearers Index Astartes article, they refer to the Black Rage as the 'Curse of Horus' not the 'Curse of Sanguinius' because they believe Horus inflicted Sanguinius with unimaginable psychic damage. Horus, in his limitless malice, made sure that Sanguinius's death was the most painful and foul that the boundless evils in his service could administer. The Warmaster's psychic assault echoed not just throughout space, but also throughout time, resonating in the souls of his children. So, one can say that the Black Rage is Horus's fault, not Sanguinius's. Lamenters, one of the most recent of the Blood Angels successor chapters does not suffer from the Black Rage or Red Thirst which could be attributed to the greater passage of time from Sanguinius's death before the founding of the chapter and not using the practice of blood transfusions for new recruits. So, in short I believe that the Black Rage was caused by the death of Sanguinius imprinting the geneseed of the Blood Angels and that the Red Thirst is caused by the blood transfusions using impure blood and/or having a negative reaction on the imprinted geneseed. Hmm....You make interesting points. I've never gone super mega in depth in analyzing the Blood Angel's various flaws, so you're probably right. Never occurred to me the Flesh Tearers don't have the Red Thirst.... I really can't see them bleeding his corpse dry. That's weird even for slightly deranged Loyalist Space Marines.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tancred Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Hmm....You make interesting points. I've never gone super mega in depth in analyzing the Blood Angel's various flaws, so you're probably right. Never occurred to me the Flesh Tearers don't have the Red Thirst.... I really can't see them bleeding his corpse dry. That's weird even for slightly deranged Loyalist Space Marines.... They didn't bleed Sanguinius dry at all, he is kept in a status field underground baal in perfect condition. The blood that is drunken through ritual it that from the sanginary priest who are injected with the blood of sanguinius when they became priest. I think they all suffer from the red thirst not just the blood angels. In the novel "Red Fury" Rafen found bodies of enemy forces dried dry with the same puncher marchs in their necks. Enemy forces who were fighting the Flesh Tearers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamen Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 read codex blood angels about the flaw and the process that creates them:- Page 3 of the blood angels codex Scholars claim that the flaw lies in the process that is used to create each new generation of Blood Angels, for the Blood Angels use a process known as Insanguination to activate their gene-seed. The process was originally triggered by injecting Aspirants with tiny samples of Sanguinius’s own blood. This practice ended with the death of the Primarch, but some of his blood was preserved in the Red Grail. The living blood could not be kept for long and thus was injected into the veins of the Sanguinary Priests, who became living hosts to the power of Sanguinius. To this day, drinking the collected blood of the assembled Sanguinary Priests from the Red Grail is part of the ritual of creation for new members of this important order. so you see they didnt exactly bleed him dry, but already had some of his blood in the fridge. so can we please stop bashing the sanguinius, and ill agree with the few that blame horus for the flaw. And that is my humble opinion :lol: P.S. as for gulli-papa smurf-man has anyone wondered why he forced the codex on other legions, and why most chapters through out history are all ultra-smurf clones. I have to wonder if he wasnt trying to make a play for daddy golden toilet, just a thought ppl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Well now I just don't know what to believe.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamen Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Ah we dark angels love misdirection lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForTheLion Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Ah we dark angels love misdirection lol we should have a successor chapter called "The Misdirected" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrathnar Flintfang Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 im agreeing with the above post :lol: even if they werent pure loyalists they werent shallow primarchs like guiliman, they have depth and a twisted sense of honour. I mean Rus , Lion and Horus had around equal tally of victories. Sang was the avatar of Honor and reason, angron was a gladiator, guili was a paper burocrat. You're a sadly wrong person, from Greece no less.... how bizarre. :lol: Yeah I think your right, sang really wasn't all that reasonable the way I saw it, he just didn't make waves... Oh you mean about Rowboat? no... no I'd say thats fiar. He loved him his statistics, so much so that he tried to make everyone else fight like his army. But I think I shall stop before I detail things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starblayde Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 P.S. as for gulli-papa smurf-man has anyone wondered why he forced the codex on other legions, and why most chapters through out history are all ultra-smurf clones. I have to wonder if he wasnt trying to make a play for daddy golden toilet, just a thought ppl Wondered? No. Read why? Yes. He 'forced' it on the rest of the chapters because it would make sure that no Horus-wannabe would be able to sway three or four important guys and suddenly have half the Imperium's elite forces on his side. Most chapters are successors of Ultramarines because they had by far the largest number of Astartes, massively more than anyone else at the time. Firstly because they were too far away from Terra to actually get properly involved in the destruction of the Horus Heresy itself and secondly because they were so damn good at capturing planets, holding them and moving on to the next one. No other Legion had conquered so many planets, which is why they now rule all the worlds of Ultramar in a mini-Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 P.S. as for gulli-papa smurf-man has anyone wondered why he forced the codex on other legions, and why most chapters through out history are all ultra-smurf clones. I have to wonder if he wasnt trying to make a play for daddy golden toilet, just a thought ppl Wondered? No. Read why? Yes. He 'forced' it on the rest of the chapters because it would make sure that no Horus-wannabe would be able to sway three or four important guys and suddenly have half the Imperium's elite forces on his side. Most chapters are successors of Ultramarines because they had by far the largest number of Astartes, massively more than anyone else at the time. Firstly because they were too far away from Terra to actually get properly involved in the destruction of the Horus Heresy itself and secondly because they were so damn good at capturing planets, holding them and moving on to the next one. No other Legion had conquered so many planets, which is why they now rule all the worlds of Ultramar in a mini-Empire. Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrathnar Flintfang Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 P.S. as for gulli-papa smurf-man has anyone wondered why he forced the codex on other legions, and why most chapters through out history are all ultra-smurf clones. I have to wonder if he wasnt trying to make a play for daddy golden toilet, just a thought ppl Wondered? No. Read why? Yes. He 'forced' it on the rest of the chapters because it would make sure that no Horus-wannabe would be able to sway three or four important guys and suddenly have half the Imperium's elite forces on his side. Most chapters are successors of Ultramarines because they had by far the largest number of Astartes, massively more than anyone else at the time. Firstly because they were too far away from Terra to actually get properly involved in the destruction of the Horus Heresy itself and secondly because they were so damn good at capturing planets, holding them and moving on to the next one. No other Legion had conquered so many planets, which is why they now rule all the worlds of Ultramar in a mini-Empire. Yep. Actually it was because its easier to write rules for one chapter and explain away the other chapters copying it. But I think that we are at the point where we can move past that in terms of mechanics, so really I think people should be casting off rowboat, just me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilcin Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 They didn't bleed Sanguinius dry at all, he is kept in a status field underground baal in perfect condition. The blood that is drunken through ritual it that from the sanginary priest who are injected with the blood of sanguinius when they became priest. I think they all suffer from the red thirst not just the blood angels. In the novel "Red Fury" Rafen found bodies of enemy forces dried dry with the same puncher marchs in their necks. Enemy forces who were fighting the Flesh Tearers. Honestly, I don't think they bled him dry, but it is possible that they did drain some of his blood to make sure there was enough for the priests to infuse with their blood... but anyways... I just wanted to debate some of my interesting ideas. :D BTW, "Red Fury" is not canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tancred Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 BTW, "Red Fury" is not canon. Why not, it is a Black Library novel and GW approve all their books. I bet half, if not more, of the opinions from this thread is from something they read in a BL novel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 People have this weird notion that if it's from the Black Library and they don't like it then it's not canon. *shrug* Of course that's not the case at all. The only thing that makes BL non-canon is studio or other BL material coming that contradicts it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrathnar Flintfang Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Frankly everyone is eager to discount things they don't like as 'non canon'. I for example refuse to accept any source that says squats aren't there. Perosnally I am just waiting to run into a GW rep so I can pester him about squats and when they are coming back from whereever they have been hiding fighting off nids in numbers that the Ulramarines chapter could only dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Apparently they tried that. Officially the Squats were almost ALL eaten by the Nids. Aside from the few left in the galaxy that we know of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilcin Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I'm not picking and choosing what BL books are canon and which are not. I haven't read 'Red Fury' so I have no opinion on it, I just treat all BL books as non-canon. They are there to create excitement and stimulate the imagination to get customers to buy more GW products. My source of reasoning can be found here and here. I try my best not to be a cherry picker for my debates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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