Imperialis_Dominatus Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Guilliman knew Alpharius or Omegon and wouldn't be fooled by a disguised Alpha Legionnaire calling himself Alpharius. Either Alpharius OR Omegon got killed in the face. There's no doubt about that. Oh, but there is. Even the Ultramarines hold that report in suspect, as the one who compiled it, an Inquisitor Kravin, is suspected to have been an Alpha Legion operative. So yes, there is doubt, one of the whole points of the Alpha Legion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Guilliman knew Alpharius or Omegon and wouldn't be fooled by a disguised Alpha Legionnaire calling himself Alpharius. Either Alpharius OR Omegon got killed in the face. There's no doubt about that. Oh, but there is. Even the Ultramarines hold that report in suspect, as the one who compiled it, an Inquisitor Kravin, is suspected to have been an Alpha Legion operative. So yes, there is doubt, one of the whole points of the Alpha Legion. Yup, and even if they DID get Alpharius or Omegon, the Alpha Legion would want constant doubt. I'm biased here, because I really like the Alpha Legion and don't think Alpharius/Omegon would get caught, even by Guilliman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caducus morbidus Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 There is no way A/O could have been killed by Rob. Alpha legion always secured the places were they were stopping. I think it must have been a plot to make it seem like Alpharius was dead. Actually Roboute slew Sheed Ranko who was as big as an primarch and he propably had his helmet on so Rob didnt see his face. Ranko was an terminator captain so he was dangerous in combat. After Ranko was killed by Rob Alpha legion stole the body back and escaped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justicar Valius Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Pertuarbo for planning the iron cage incident and making his daemon world one big fortress. the thing about sanguiness is that Horus killed him so hard his entire chapter still feels it nuff said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I favor Lion El'Jonson. A brilliant warlord, when people recall that he was right up there with Horus in terms of victories they nonetheless forget that the Lion achieved his marks in only fifty years... where Horus had nearly 150, and often commanded forces far larger than those of El'Jonson, to include contingents from other Legions... I also like Roboute Guilliman, who perhaps best represents what a Primarch should have been. Horus gets the accolades, but I think that's part of the legend and myth of the 40k universe. The fact of the matter is that twenty Guillimans would have brought about an Imperium far finer for Humanity than the one they got in the end. It goes without saying, of course, that the rest of the Primarchs could not have been like Guilliman precisely because they didn't land in Macragge. I don't think Guilliman was naturally kinder, smarter, wiser, etc.... It's just that Vulkan landed in a disaster volcano world not conducive to advanced civilizations, Night Haunter fell in Sin City to the Nth degree, Lion and Russ dropped into the wilderness, so on, so forth. I like him because he did what he was good at and what he truly loved, only to have the person he worshipped fanatically tell him "Stop worshipping me. Heck, don't worship me. Go conquer worlds instead." Put yourself in Lorgar's shoes. Wouldn't you be utterly crushed? Not really. I think Lorgar should have bought a clue and realized that entities collectively known as "Chaos" probably aren't the most fitting targets for adoration/adulation. A/O did meet, and Guilliman offended him, saying he wasn't wrothy or something like that. Oh and Guilliman, conquered the most worlds, held the Imperium together...speks for himself really. Yep. Guilliman got up in Alpharius' face for fighting like cowards, so they've DEFINITELY met. Guilliman did not berate Alpharius for being a coward. He dressed him down because Alpharius went out of his way to make a particular engagement more complicated and challenging than it needed to be: Alpharius went out of his way to not just demolish a particular enemy, but to beat him ten (or so) different ways. Personally, I don't believe Alpharius died in that battle. That's not necessarily a slam on Guilliman, who I consider to be one of the better Primarchs*. It's simply that there was always innuendo regarding the veracity of the reports of Alpharius' death, and "Legion" pretty much reinforced that even more. * Guilliman is probably tied with Lion El'Jonson as recipient of most unfair criticism. Guilliman was hardly just a logistician; his Codex of tactics and strategies is evidence that this isn't a true statement. His actions in the battle where Alpharius supposedly died is further proof of that: an unoriginal conformist could never have surprised the forces (and Primarch?) of the most tactically cunning Legion out there. Neither was Guilliman a tyrant. Say what you will about Ultramar, Guilliman gave up command of all but 1,000 (or so) of his Astartes. He put himself at the level of the other High Lords. He did arguably more than any other single being to ensure the survival of the Imperium following the Heresy, but so many people find it so easy to paint him as a colorless, dry tyrant. In fact, he was the most successful. The worlds he ruled might still be a shade worst than our North Korea (compulsory military service for children?!?), but they were collectively seen as utopias by the rest of Humanity. That should say something. Cheers, P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 North Korea??? That's the average Imperial world. Ultramar is a modernized Ancient Greece/Rome....and I can't see that being ANYTHING like North Korea. Maybe like Canada.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperialis_Dominatus Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I like him because he did what he was good at and what he truly loved, only to have the person he worshipped fanatically tell him "Stop worshipping me. Heck, don't worship me. Go conquer worlds instead." Put yourself in Lorgar's shoes. Wouldn't you be utterly crushed? Not really. I think Lorgar should have bought a clue and realized that entities collectively known as "Chaos" probably aren't the most fitting targets for adoration/adulation. I bet Kor Phaeron was a little more sneaky than that in his introduction of the Chaos Gods to Lorgar. Names like the Ruinous Powers, Chaos Gods, and the Primordial Annhilator aren't exactly good PR unless your clients are already insane. Ergo, enter the euphemisms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Kor Phaeron is that one guy I'd go back in time to assassinate in the 40k universe. Honestly I'm surprised the Eldar didn't up and blow his face off. They HAD to see it coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqatone Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 There's no doubt about that. I wouldn't expect either of the two to be dead for a moment, this is just my personal opinion though of course. They are just too cunning. I'm an Ultra at heart and I know Alpharius is better at many things than old Guilli. And being cunning is certainly one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 North Korea??? That's the average Imperial world. Hmmm. I guess I was thinking of hive worlds as being the average, in the sense that more Imperial citizens live in those than in any other type of planet. In that sense, the "average" for a 40k human is quite a dystopian place, many orders worse than North Korea. Ultramar is a modernized Ancient Greece/Rome....and I can't see that being ANYTHING like North Korea. Maybe like Canada.... Admittedly, it was a rough parallel. I was pointing at the compulsory military service, the superior status of the armed forces over the agrarian class, the cult of personality behind the leadership, etc. These were things that increasingly came to dominate places like Lacedaemon/Sparta. At any rate, my intent was to point out that a citizen of our nations of our "first world" would find even a comparative utopia in 40k like Macragge to be quite the rough place. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primarch015 Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 it's funny, all of you like the lion and russ, yet they're not the most key loyalist primarchs. that has nothing to do with anything. who cares if a primarch is "key" to either side. Just because someone is "key" doesnt make them interesting. Kurze' fluff was more interesting than some "key" primarchs but that doesnt make us like him any less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I think the love for the Lion and Russ is because they are not 'key' Primarchs. There is more to the imagination with them, more mystery and in many ways more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyear Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Well, it IS Sanguinius' fault the Blood Angles are vampires....his death cursed them. The Blood Angels are NOT vampires... *total facepalm* They get crazed and bloodlust, to the point where they rip apart people with their bare hands, but they don't drink down blood, sheesh. Also, two favorite Primarchs. Sanguinius and Lorgar. Why because their awesome that's why :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The emperors chosen Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 but they don't drink down blood, sheesh. yah they do, it is how they first become blood angels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperialis_Dominatus Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 but they don't drink down blood, sheesh. What's that, Angels of Death Codex? Victims found drained of blood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqatone Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Well, it IS Sanguinius' fault the Blood Angles are vampires....his death cursed them. The Blood Angels are NOT vampires... *total facepalm* http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq302/rollvision/gluposti/palmface.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Well, it IS Sanguinius' fault the Blood Angles are vampires....his death cursed them. The Blood Angels are NOT vampires... *total facepalm* They get crazed and bloodlust, to the point where they rip apart people with their bare hands, but they don't drink down blood, sheesh. Apparently some major facts just waltzed past you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 [Apparently some major facts just waltzed past you. If they don't manage to get themselves killed, marines afflicted by the black rage become blood thirsting madmen. The Vampire thing is the Blood Angels main fluff-theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Forian Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 I love Sanguinius, because he is the reason Blood Angels are so tough. If Sanguinius hadn't have died then they probably wouldn't have blood lust and the Death Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Seems like we hardly ever talk about the Khan around here. In addition to frustrating the efforts of one James T. Kirk, our lovely Khan has done quite a bit of interesting stuff. Now, I'm not terribly keen on the whole 'everybody has a ride, and most of us have bikes' philosophy, but it does serve as a nice parallel between the historical Mongols (sans beat and pillaging, but whatev). You figure by looking at the background on the legion, and the historical base on Earth, there are quite a bit of similarities. One, we have the philosophy of inter tribal co-operation, whereby the Khan would assign his warriors into mixed units of several different tribesmen. This would serve to build up unit cohesion and bonds of solidarity between the young and older warriors, also ensuring that as many of his men possessed as many different points of combat perspective as possible. Each new warrior would be exposed to several veterans, each with skills and techniques honed through many seperate types of conflicts, from raids, to pitched battles. Very similar to what the great Ghengis would do. Also, Ghengis would task his men with raids and assaults onto nearby territories, to keep them focused and prevent them from falling apart. In 40k, the Great Khan would do that by sending his units into many fields of battle, in their mixed units, to hone all of their battle skills, and build new ones. Next we have that scene where the Khan launched that raid and slew like a bajillion people on the road to the capital of Chogoris (I hope I recalled that correctly). Ghengis was known to engage in similar slaughters, though perhaps not on quite the same scale of bloodshed, but then again, this is the GrimDark we're talking about. Finally, the White Scars have a cool color scheme, and a neat system of tribal markings. All told, they are a very cool chapter, with a very clever and powerful primarch, who we frequently ignore, or seem to not talk about enough. Just throwing that out there for discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Seems like we hardly ever talk about the Khan around here. In addition to frustrating the efforts of one James T. Kirk, our lovely Khan has done quite a bit of interesting stuff. Now, I'm not terribly keen on the whole 'everybody has a ride, and most of us have bikes' philosophy, but it does serve as a nice parallel between the historical Mongols (sans beat and pillaging, but whatev). You figure by looking at the background on the legion, and the historical base on Earth, there are quite a bit of similarities. One, we have the philosophy of inter tribal co-operation, whereby the Khan would assign his warriors into mixed units of several different tribesmen. This would serve to build up unit cohesion and bonds of solidarity between the young and older warriors, also ensuring that as many of his men possessed as many different points of combat perspective as possible. Each new warrior would be exposed to several veterans, each with skills and techniques honed through many seperate types of conflicts, from raids, to pitched battles. Very similar to what the great Ghengis would do. Also, Ghengis would task his men with raids and assaults onto nearby territories, to keep them focused and prevent them from falling apart. In 40k, the Great Khan would do that by sending his units into many fields of battle, in their mixed units, to hone all of their battle skills, and build new ones. Next we have that scene where the Khan launched that raid and slew like a bajillion people on the road to the capital of Chogoris (I hope I recalled that correctly). Ghengis was known to engage in similar slaughters, though perhaps not on quite the same scale of bloodshed, but then again, this is the GrimDark we're talking about. Finally, the White Scars have a cool color scheme, and a neat system of tribal markings. All told, they are a very cool chapter, with a very clever and powerful primarch, who we frequently ignore, or seem to not talk about enough. Just throwing that out there for discussion. i've always like the Khan, and hope the HH finally digs into his very potential awesomness...the taking of the space port during the siege of terra alone coulld be its own book. WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqatone Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 I have no interest at all in the White Scars. A brilliant name for a legion, but mongoloids I just have no interest in. A shame, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 but they don't drink down blood, sheesh. What's that, Angels of Death Codex? Victims found drained of blood? Which indeed could have been just a smear campaign against the BA. Which is indeed mentioned in the same piece of fluff text as the bit about victims drained of blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abaddon127 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 My two favorite primarchs are El'Jonson, and Russ. I picked Lion because he is a great tactician and commander, and I picked Russ because he was basically a viking berserker which appeals to my love of heavy metal music and imagery. I like to read the Space Wolf novels while listening to Amon Amarth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandfarseer Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 My favourite is pre Heresy Horus because he is just able to adapt to any situation, and because he really cares about people, everytime i read Horus Rising or False Gods i always wish it would end diffrent :huh: My least is the Lion, just for being a git to Zahariel and just being too secreti My other favourite is Corax, just cause i like Edgar Allen Poe. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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