UltimateJake Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 *facepalm*I meant it was probably a grim satisfaction. Happy to be rid of a traitor but not happy he had problems with one of his brothers in the first place. Gulliman wasn't really the gloaty type I think. I think he had lots of weight on his shoulders in his last days. It was up to him and the few Primarchs left to bring the Imperium together and Dorn wasn't really getting along with him. He thought another civil war would occur, so it was probably more of Thank heaven the job is done kind of thing then look at me I killed a Chaos Primarch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2233615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Exactly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2233626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 It should be noted, however, that Alpharius's death is still considered suspect even by the Ultramarines, and he may still be at large. The reason why it is in question is because the validity of the whole account of the battle at Eskrador between the Ultramarines and the Alpha Legion is being questioned. It is not the duel between the primarchs in particular that is in question. IF that account is true, then it was definitely Alpharius that was killed in that duel: 1. While he approaches Guilliman, "Alpharius" effortlessly fells Ultramarines left and right. 2. After Guilliman kills "Alpharius", the rest of the Alpha Legion in that particular close encounter are taken out, the body of "Alpharius" is retrieved and burned. 3. Guilliman had met heatedly debated "Alpharius" in person. 4. There was no concept of two Primarchs or AL Legionaires pretending to be Primarchs at the time the Index Astartes was written, so when the Index Astartes article says that "Alpharius met and debated with Gulliman" and "Guilliman kills Alpharius in a duel" then according to the authors intent it actually is "Alpharius" who is debating and fighting Guilliman, not "someone pretending to be Alpharius". But I myself would question the account given in the Index Astartes as well, by the simple fact that the Ultramarines, whose core motto is "be prepared for any eventuality" (that's what the Codex is supposed to provide, after all) are completely dumbfounded by guerilla tactics, communication jamming and sabotage actions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2234745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Mournival Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 I have 2 favourite primarchs 'cuz they are both awesome. I love Purterabo and Dorn. They both specialize at fortifying and sieges. They both also shared a good brotherly bond for the most part until Dorn's insult to Purterabo. Their good relationship is implied in the audiobook the Lightning Tower as Dorn reflects, and one can simply imagine the brotherhood even though Pert was said to be hard to get close to; it just seems like an older brother and younger brother who both like eachother and get along with a little bit of rivalry...... that is until Dorn's insult and the Emperor picking Dorn over Pert (I would've taken both) to fortify the Imperial palace. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2234834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 I love Purterabo and Dorn. They both specialize at fortifying and sieges. They both also shared a good brotherly bond for the most part until Dorn's insult to Purterabo. Their good relationship is implied in the audiobook the Lightning Tower as Dorn reflects, and one can simply imagine the brotherhood even though Pert was said to be hard to get close to; it just seems like an older brother and younger brother who both like eachother and get along with a little bit of rivalry...... that is until Dorn's insult and the Emperor picking Dorn over Pert (I would've taken both) to fortify the Imperial palace. Um...what insult? You mean when Horus asked Dorn if he thought the Iron Warriors could breach the palace, and Dorn said no after a long careful thought, and Perturabo flew off on a mad tirade against Dorn and his legion? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2234964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Mournival Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Um...what insult? You mean when Horus asked Dorn if he thought the Iron Warriors could breach the palace, and Dorn said no after a long careful thought, and Perturabo flew off on a mad tirade against Dorn and his legion? That would be the one; and wasn't it Fulgrim who asked that of Dorn? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2234986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Could have been Fulgrim, but how was Dorn insulting Perturabo? Like, at all? I must be misunderstanding you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2234989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Could have been Fulgrim, but how was Dorn insulting Perturabo? Like, at all? I must be misunderstanding you. he really wasnt insulting perturabo. refer back to my "traitor primarchs are big emo losers" theory to further explore this. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2235013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Could have been Fulgrim, but how was Dorn insulting Perturabo? Like, at all? I must be misunderstanding you. he really wasnt insulting perturabo. refer back to my "traitor primarchs are big emo losers" theory to further explore this. WLK That's what I'm saying, man. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2235033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Could have been Fulgrim, but how was Dorn insulting Perturabo? Like, at all? I must be misunderstanding you. he really wasnt insulting perturabo. refer back to my "traitor primarchs are big emo losers" theory to further explore this. WLK That's what I'm saying, man. yea, but i have fun being blunt. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2235046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Could have been Fulgrim, but how was Dorn insulting Perturabo? Like, at all? I must be misunderstanding you. he really wasnt insulting perturabo. refer back to my "traitor primarchs are big emo losers" theory to further explore this. WLK That's what I'm saying, man. yea, but i have fun being blunt. WLK Honesty is the best policy :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2235052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Lysander Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Could have been Fulgrim, but how was Dorn insulting Perturabo? Like, at all? I must be misunderstanding you. he really wasnt insulting perturabo. refer back to my "traitor primarchs are big emo losers" theory to further explore this. WLK That's what I'm saying, man. yea, but i have fun being blunt. WLK Honesty is the best policy :tu: What is with all this Dorn hating ;) ? First of all, Dorn didn't walk into the Iron Cage trap because of his argument with Guilliman... Or at least not directly because of it. And furthermore, Dorn wasn't insulting Perturabo. When Fulgrim asked him whether he thought his fortifications on Terra were proof against Perturabo, he thought carefully and said something on the lines of, if it were properly manned, then could be defended against anything. This isn't an insult. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2235184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Precisely the point Capt. Lysander (psst! Are you... are you the REAL Lysander???). We were trying to figure out how this guy thought Dorn had insulted Perturabo at all, when clearly the one being the jerk in this situation was Perty-pants. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2235611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 yea, other than a feel "moron moments" Dorn has, i think he is a pretty cool guy actually. the problem is "perty-lips" being unable to tell opinion from insult. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2235968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Perty-mouth does have a bit of 'woe is me' going on in his mind. Colors his behavior quite a bit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2235970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Perty-mouth does have a bit of 'woe is me' going on in his mind. Colors his behavior quite a bit. well you know the saying, the bigger the guns, the smaller ...=p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2236039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Perty-mouth does have a bit of 'woe is me' going on in his mind. Colors his behavior quite a bit. well you know the saying, the bigger the guns, the smaller ...=p The bullets? You were gonna say bullets, weren't cha? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2236043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 yea, other than a feel "moron moments" Dorn has, i think he is a pretty cool guy actually. the problem is "perty-lips" being unable to tell opinion from insult. WLK opinion? Opinion? OPINION? Whaddaya mean Opinion? :) Fact, baby, fact! :) Fulgs asks Dorn if even Terra could withstand Turbs. Dorn says yes. Terra doesn't fall to Turbs even with help from other Legions. What Dorn said was true. Terra did withstand Turbs. Dorn is vindicated. Perturabo's outburst is seen as a temper-tantrum from a short-changed, over-worked and isolated Primarch. I have sympathy for Perturabo (he is in 3 fave naughty Primarchs list). But Dorn was right and Perturabo outburst condemns him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2236059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 yea, other than a feel "moron moments" Dorn has, i think he is a pretty cool guy actually. the problem is "perty-lips" being unable to tell opinion from insult. WLK opinion? Opinion? OPINION? Whaddaya mean Opinion? :) Fact, baby, fact! :) Fulgs asks Dorn if even Terra could withstand Turbs. Dorn says yes. Terra doesn't fall to Turbs even with help from other Legions. What Dorn said was true. Terra did withstand Turbs. Dorn is vindicated. Perturabo's outburst is seen as a temper-tantrum from a short-changed, over-worked and isolated Primarch. I have sympathy for Perturabo (he is in 3 fave naughty Primarchs list). But Dorn was right and Perturabo outburst condemns him. Um, I might want to remind you that if Horus hadn't lowered his shps shields, Dorn would have been screwed... that is the only reason why the seige of Terra failed. You know that right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2236063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Um, I might want to remind you that if Horus hadn't lowered his ships shields, Dorn would have been screwed... that is the only reason why the seige of Terra failed. You know that right? And Horus lowered his shields for what reason, again? To lure the Emprah into a confrontation, right? Horus' advisers were all like "Omg :lol: Horus?" But Horus was like "No, I have to do this NOW!" And he had to do it then because he knew that Ultramarines, Space Wolves, and Dark Angels were very very close to Terra. And if they had showed up, Horus and his army would been crushed like a beer can against a frat boy's head. The Siege didn't fail because of Horus outfighting the defenders, it failed because Horus was impatient and running out of time. If his armies were better, maybe they could have breached the final walls faster. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2236098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Um, I might want to remind you that if Horus hadn't lowered his shps shields, Dorn would have been screwed... that is the only reason why the seige of Terra failed. You know that right? There are 2 issues that seem to get blurred 1] Dorn answered Fulgrims question. "No, even Perturabo could not defeat me at Terra" What Dorn said was true and was proven. Perturabo did not beat Dorn. Perturabo could not beat Dorn even with help. Dorn + Terra > Perturabo. Perturabo had 4 Legion's help. Dorn had 2. Dorn does more with less. 2] Perturabo couldn't beat Dorn. Horus had to bait the Emperor to break the deadlock. Dorn was not, and would not have been, screwed. Horus dropped the shields because he couldn't win. Had he not dropped the shields, Perturabo still would not have beaten Dorn. The Siege failed because 3 Legions in a Castle outperformed 5 Legions with Daemons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2236209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 To both of the above, GW (I know, they mess with the fluff all the time) has always been saying that the seige of Terra would have been lost if it weren't for the lowering of the shields. I think the exact quote is "at the moment of triumph Horus lowered his shields. The Emperor knew immediately and..." "At the moment of Horus's death the traitor legion's morale broke" (something to that effect) "and fled..." This is just something I remembered off the top of my head, I could start researching and give you more. Sorry guys, but the traitors would have been victorious had Horus not died. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2236263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 This is just something I remembered off the top of my head, I could start researching and give you more. Sorry guys, but the traitors would have been victorious had Horus not died. ^_^ That's one opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2236264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 To both of the above, GW (I know, they mess with the fluff all the time) has always been saying that the seige of Terra would have been lost if it weren't for the lowering of the shields. I think the exact quote is "at the moment of triumph Horus lowered his shields. The Emperor knew immediately and..." "At the moment of Horus's death the traitor legion's morale broke" (something to that effect) "and fled..." This is just something I remembered off the top of my head, I could start researching and give you more. Sorry guys, but the traitors would have been victorious had Horus not died. No. It's always been Horus' final gambit because he knew he the Ultras/DA/SW were coming, OR it was a final flicker of his true self breaking through the power of the Chaos Gods and attempting to redeem himself. It never had anything to do with him winning. He simply wasn't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2236268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Lysander Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Precisely the point Capt. Lysander (psst! Are you... are you the REAL Lysander???). We were trying to figure out how this guy thought Dorn had insulted Perturabo at all, when clearly the one being the jerk in this situation was Perty-pants. :) Sure I could be. And yes, I think Fulgrim was deliberately trying to get Perty-mouth to get angry :P. Might have 'set the cast' for the heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180666-favorite-primarch/page/9/#findComment-2236366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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