favorite primarch

[UltimateJake]

They recovered the body and took the time to burn it. I'm pretty sure they had plenty of time to confirm it wasn't just a Marine, since you know, it'd take an Apothecary like 30 seconds to prove beyond a doubt.

Even if it was, the idea that A/O are so pathetic that you CAN'T immediatly tell them apart from a Marine when they're fighting for their lives is pretty sad.

 

You do know that the regular marines were taught how to act like Alpharius. And they even looked like Alpharius. They were in all sinces clones and how could an apothecary figure out it was Alpharius if he had never met him in the first place?

[jb85]

Not really. A Primarch will be able to tell if he's talking to another Primarch or just a Marine, unless of course A/O were just completely pathetic to the point that they were the equivalent of Marines. That'd certainly explain how they can blend so well and why Guilliman one hit killed him, but it makes them a sad joke.

 

Well it is quite obvious the Gulliman was blinded by arrogance. He already said that the Alpha Legion were cowards and would never stand up to his victories. So he thought the same of Alpharius, seeing him as a weakling and worthless fool most likely after the Heresy. So he figured he would be inferior in combat and he didn't realize that he was only killing a marine. Albeit a highly trained Omegon or Captain perhaps.

 

Yes it is completely obvious that Guilliman was blinded by arrogance :) Particulary given that his plan of attack at Eskador was a complete deviation from his Codex procedures, the exact thing he had previously criticised Alpharius for.

 

Does it matter anyway if he killed Alpharius or Omegon? My understanding is that essentially Alpharius=Omegon (bar Alpharius being the public face) so it matters little which one he killed. And I don't think Guilliman ever called Alpharius of the Legion cowards, he was calling inot question their combat doctrine (and their honour at the end of the Eskador campaign).

[The Emperor's Champion]

They recovered the body and took the time to burn it. I'm pretty sure they had plenty of time to confirm it wasn't just a Marine, since you know, it'd take an Apothecary like 30 seconds to prove beyond a doubt.

Even if it was, the idea that A/O are so pathetic that you CAN'T immediatly tell them apart from a Marine when they're fighting for their lives is pretty sad.

 

You do know that the regular marines were taught how to act like Alpharius. And they even looked like Alpharius. They were in all sinces clones and how could an apothecary figure out it was Alpharius if he had never met him in the first place?

Are you kidding? Even if they started implanting Marine parts into A/O the anatomical differences would be painfully obvious to a remotely competent Apothecary.

Acting like a Primarch only works to a point. Primarchs are capable of things Marines couldn't pull off. That is of course unless A/O was a useless Primarch who ISN'T better than a normal Marine.

They looked SIMILAR to Alpharius to the point where inexperienced outsiders would never be able to tell them apart, sure, but aside from stature that's true for most Marines and their Primarchs, and the older the Marine the truer it is.

[UltimateJake]

Not really. A Primarch will be able to tell if he's talking to another Primarch or just a Marine, unless of course A/O were just completely pathetic to the point that they were the equivalent of Marines. That'd certainly explain how they can blend so well and why Guilliman one hit killed him, but it makes them a sad joke.

 

Well it is quite obvious the Gulliman was blinded by arrogance. He already said that the Alpha Legion were cowards and would never stand up to his victories. So he thought the same of Alpharius, seeing him as a weakling and worthless fool most likely after the Heresy. So he figured he would be inferior in combat and he didn't realize that he was only killing a marine. Albeit a highly trained Omegon or Captain perhaps.

 

Yes it is completely obvious that Guilliman was blinded by arrogance :) Particulary given that his plan of attack at Eskador was a complete deviation from his Codex procedures, the exact thing he had previously criticised Alpharius for.

 

Does it matter anyway if he killed Alpharius or Omegon? My understanding is that essentially Alpharius=Omegon (bar Alpharius being the public face) so it matters little which one he killed. And I don't think Guilliman ever called Alpharius of the Legion cowards, he was calling inot question their combat doctrine (and their honour at the end of the Eskador campaign).

 

The deviation could have been fueled by many things. I will say that Gulliman wasn't stupid and he was a great tactician. The deviation could have been fueled by wanting to kill Alpharius once and for all, merely wanting revenge for the Heresy. Or it could have been a brilliant mind. I would say it would be both, but clouded with rage, hate, and perhaps sadness over the Heresy.

 

Are you kidding? Even if they started implanting Marine parts into A/O the anatomical differences would be painfully obvious to a remotely competent Apothecary.

Acting like a Primarch only works to a point. Primarchs are capable of things Marines couldn't pull off. That is of course unless A/O was a useless Primarch who ISN'T better than a normal Marine.

They looked SIMILAR to Alpharius to the point where inexperienced outsiders would never be able to tell them apart, sure, but aside from stature that's true for most Marines and their Primarchs, and the older the Marine the truer it is.

 

And you seem to forget that few were aware of the Alpha Legions true workings. Horus was Alpharius's closest brother. Gulliman was a bitter enemy that questioned his honor and tactics. Alpharius didn't have anything to do with Gulliman after their disagreement and I dobut they were even close before. So how would I ask an Apothecary truly know Alpharius when he had never seen him.

 

Yes Primarchs could do things regular marines couldn't. But, how does this even translate into indentifying a corpse?

[jb85]

Apologies if I am wrong on this given that I haven't read Legion. But my understanding was that the Alpha Legion were not clones, they were recruited as normal. However Alpharius encouraged them to make themselves similar in appearance to him, even going as far as cosmetic surgery in some cases.

 

In addition during False Gods we have the Apothecary treating Horus after the Davin incident at a loss on how to proceed, due to the differences in physiology between normal Marines and a Primarch. Based on that and the fact that Alpharius and the AL Marines were created in completely different ways, it would strongly suggest that an autopsy would have easily determined whether it was Alpharius that was killed or not.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Exactly. Even a cursory investigation of the corpse by any of the Ultramarines' Apothecaries would've had them able to confirm if the dead being in question was in fact Astartes or Primarch. VERY simple.

 

Whether it was Alpharius or Omegon who was killed doesn't matter at all since they were literally the same person. The only thing that matters is that one of the two is toast and the Alpha Legion is down a Primarch....or half a Primarch (depending on how you look at it).

[Octavulg]

Because a Space Marine would be a Space Marine, and a Primarch would be a Primarch?

 

Space Marines are humans who have implanted organs. Primarchs aren't.

 

EDIT: Fine, go ahead and post in the half hour or more since I opened this first. See if I care. :D

[The Emperor's Champion]

Because a Space Marine would be a Space Marine, and a Primarch would be a Primarch?

 

Space Marines are humans who have implanted organs. Primarchs aren't.

 

EDIT: Fine, go ahead and post in the half hour or more since I opened this first. See if I care. ;)

Don'tcha just hate when that happens? :D

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

They recovered the body and took the time to burn it. I'm pretty sure they had plenty of time to confirm it wasn't just a Marine, since you know, it'd take an Apothecary like 30 seconds to prove beyond a doubt.

Even if it was, the idea that A/O are so pathetic that you CAN'T immediatly tell them apart from a Marine when they're fighting for their lives is pretty sad.

No, because thats the way they want it. Is it really that pathetic if that's what you are trying to achieve?

[jb85]

They recovered the body and took the time to burn it. I'm pretty sure they had plenty of time to confirm it wasn't just a Marine, since you know, it'd take an Apothecary like 30 seconds to prove beyond a doubt.

Even if it was, the idea that A/O are so pathetic that you CAN'T immediatly tell them apart from a Marine when they're fighting for their lives is pretty sad.

No, because thats the way they want it. Is it really that pathetic if that's what you are trying to achieve?

 

I think what is being said here is that it is pretty poor if Alpharius peformance in direct combat doesn't make the difference between him and an ordinary Marine immediately obvious (given the gulf in their respective capabilities that would exist).

[Captain-Plonker]

Some people don't seem to quite understand that Omegon and Alpharius are both the primarch. They were referred to by the Cabal's psykers as 'one soul in two bodies'. This could imply that Alpharius was split into two primarchs somehow (I expect when the pods were sucked into the warp by the Chaos Gods).

 

Anyways, I reckon Guilliman killed one of the twin primarchs, though which one will never be known by any outside the AL. And it could be argued that it doesn't really matter, because both Alpharius and Omegon were the same being.

 

Indeed, the Cabal refer to them sharing a soul, perhaps after one body died it was all placed in the surviving twin?

 

Anyways, I think all the Primarchs were fallible, sometimes due to arrogance, or a personal weakness, inability to understand people, loyalty, or a rebellious nature.

 

And that is why all the primarchs are dead, missing, in suspended animation or daemon princes.*

 

So I don't have a favourite Primarch. If I had to pick, it'd be a tough choice between Jaghatai, Curze, Alpharius, or Vulkan.

 

*with the possible exception of either Alpharius or Omegon

[The Emperor's Champion]

They recovered the body and took the time to burn it. I'm pretty sure they had plenty of time to confirm it wasn't just a Marine, since you know, it'd take an Apothecary like 30 seconds to prove beyond a doubt.

Even if it was, the idea that A/O are so pathetic that you CAN'T immediatly tell them apart from a Marine when they're fighting for their lives is pretty sad.

No, because thats the way they want it. Is it really that pathetic if that's what you are trying to achieve?

 

I think what is being said here is that it is pretty poor if Alpharius peformance in direct combat doesn't make the difference between him and an ordinary Marine immediately obvious (given the gulf in their respective capabilities that would exist).

Yup.

[UltimateJake]

Apologies if I am wrong on this given that I haven't read Legion. But my understanding was that the Alpha Legion were not clones, they were recruited as normal. However Alpharius encouraged them to make themselves similar in appearance to him, even going as far as cosmetic surgery in some cases.

 

In addition during False Gods we have the Apothecary treating Horus after the Davin incident at a loss on how to proceed, due to the differences in physiology between normal Marines and a Primarch. Based on that and the fact that Alpharius and the AL Marines were created in completely different ways, it would strongly suggest that an autopsy would have easily determined whether it was Alpharius that was killed or not.

 

I meant that they could pass as clones in looks. Very different meaning.

 

Exactly. Even a cursory investigation of the corpse by any of the Ultramarines' Apothecaries would've had them able to confirm if the dead being in question was in fact Astartes or Primarch. VERY simple.

 

Whether it was Alpharius or Omegon who was killed doesn't matter at all since they were literally the same person. The only thing that matters is that one of the two is toast and the Alpha Legion is down a Primarch....or half a Primarch (depending on how you look at it).

 

The thing is did that even happen? Did Gulliman manage to even get the corpse of the killed person. It is said that immediatly after Gulliman killed him he moved on thinking the Alpha Legion were broken. But, they attacked later and beat the living heck out of the Ultramarines. So how in all of this would an Apothecary manage to do an autopsy on the corpse.

 

Where is the source that said that he managed to even get a good luck at the corpse. Did he even recover the corpse? See this is easily debatable and Gulliman himself later began to question himself upon whether he had in fact killed Alpharius.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Index Astartes. They got the body and built a funeral pyre and burned it.

Guilliman never questioned whether he killed him or not. He knew.

[UltimateJake]

Index Astartes. They got the body and built a funeral pyre and burned it.

Guilliman never questioned whether he killed him or not. He knew.

 

Perhaps, but I will quote this directly from Lexicanum. It isn't a good source, but it is a source.

 

It should be noted, however, that Alpharius's death is still considered suspect even by the Ultramarines, and he may still be at large.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Well sure, he coulda killed Omegon.

[UltimateJake]

Well sure, he coulda killed Omegon.

 

Yes. I think I'll settle for that. It seems the logical answer.

[infyrana]

I've held onto my BA army since 3rd edition, so I'd have normally said Sanguinus.

 

With that said, I've been reading up on the Death Guard and Mortarion has really taken a shine on me. I've always hated 40k Chaos, especially the mess of all their added clutter on their armour. But the gas masks have always drawn me to the Plague Marines, like an early 20th century trench warfare gas attack epidemic.

 

Mortarion seems to have been a good person at heart, wanting to help the people who cowar below under the poisoned mist, becoming a farmer until a time where he could prove his trust to them. Apart from getting a bit greedy with power and wanting to help Horus rule the new age, he seemed quite an intriguing person of the people. But I guess now with his skeletal appearance, one could consider him as near to the 40k equiv' of the undead.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Index Astartes. They got the body and built a funeral pyre and burned it.

Guilliman never questioned whether he killed him or not. He knew.

 

Isnt this the same IA article that ends with the Inquisitor that reports it being discovered as a agent of the AL? and not even the Ultramarines put credit in this? all according to the IA article.

 

and i believe that if Guilliman killed a actual traitor primarch he would have celebrated as it would have been a glorious act against the traitors.

 

WLK

[The Emperor's Champion]

I doubt Guilliman would celebrate fratricide, regardless of their personal conflicts.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I doubt Guilliman would celebrate fratricide, regardless of their personal conflicts.

 

your right, i forgot that guilliman farts roses and never swears.

 

WLK

[The Emperor's Champion]

Not saying he wouldn't be satisfied about putting him down, I just don't think he'd bust out the parade floats.

[Badhaggis]

strangly enough my favourate chaos primarchs are the lest chaotic

 

1.petrubo

2.Alpha legion's primarchs

3.night lords

 

my least favourate

 

3. death guard

2. fulgrim

1. stupid stupid dorn!

 

i mean he walks into a trap and has his entire legion butcherd due to him being in a strop with guilliman

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Not saying he wouldn't be satisfied about putting him down, I just don't think he'd bust out the parade floats.

 

"Hey everybody, i just killed our traitor brother and the only primarch i have a recorded fued with!"

"Thats amazing!"

"Nah, not really. I am so awesome this is kinda beneath me."

 

WLK

[The Emperor's Champion]

*facepalm*

I meant it was probably a grim satisfaction. Happy to be rid of a traitor but not happy he had problems with one of his brothers in the first place.