Tanhausen Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I think TH spam will work in 2/3 missions. Bases: I bunch up at my base and maybe throw 1 or 2 squads at your base. Command squad to guard mine vs CC specialists or MC Anihilation: sit in a corner and CML away... 1 squad after the other... Dunno, have to test it :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2618753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
katarn Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 So of I take vets with power weapons pistols and storm shields will I get the extra attack and the save. And as I don't have my dex to hand can some one tell me how many points that is for 5. I have an apocalypse battle and have the bits to model them when I get home. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2618788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkest Angel Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Unfortunatly the wording in the faq is "Page 54 – Storm shield Change to “A storm shield is a solid shield that has an energy field generator built into it. The energy field is capable of deflecting almost any attack, even blows from lascannons and power weapons. A model with a storm shield has a 3+ invulnerable save. A model equipped with a storm shield can never claim the +1 Attack bonus for being armed with two close combat weapons in an assault.” Therefore no extra attacks, sorry brother. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2618794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Drew up a quick Deathwing list last night - 1500 points: HQ: Interrogator Chaplain in Terminator Armour = 145 Belial, Master Of The Deathwing = 130 (Deathwing Company Banner = +25 / Apothecary = +30) Deathwing: Terminator Squad One with Assault Cannon = 245 Terminator Squad Two with Heavy Flamer = 220 Terminator Squad Three with 4 Lightning Claws (Cyclone Missile Launcher) / 1 Thunder Hammer - Storm Shield = 235 (with Company Banner as per Belial) Terminator Squad Four with 4 Thunder Hammer - Storm Shield (Cyclone Missile Launcher) / 1 Lightning Claw (with Apothecary as per Belial) = 235 Terminator Squad Five with Thunder Hammer / Storm Shield / Cyclone Missile Launcher = 235 Gives some shooting and the close assault - Chaplain goes with Lightning Claw / Banner unit to take down troops. TH/ SS with Apoth holds line. Add Land Raider Crusader or some bikes to bring up to 1750... Done! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2618803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Drew up a quick Deathwing list last night - 1500 points: HQ: Interrogator Chaplain in Terminator Armour = 145 Belial, Master Of The Deathwing = 130 (Deathwing Company Banner = +25 / Apothecary = +30) Deathwing: Terminator Squad One with Assault Cannon = 245 Terminator Squad Two with Heavy Flamer = 220 Terminator Squad Three with 4 Lightning Claws (Cyclone Missile Launcher) / 1 Thunder Hammer - Storm Shield = 235 (with Company Banner as per Belial) Terminator Squad Four with 4 Thunder Hammer - Storm Shield (Cyclone Missile Launcher) / 1 Lightning Claw (with Apothecary as per Belial) = 235 Terminator Squad Five with Thunder Hammer / Storm Shield / Cyclone Missile Launcher = 235 Gives some shooting and the close assault - Chaplain goes with Lightning Claw / Banner unit to take down troops. TH/ SS with Apoth holds line. Add Land Raider Crusader or some bikes to bring up to 1750... Done! List is not legal. banner and apothecary need to be in same squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2618810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Could it be they get to such actions if their market stuff drops? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2618825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 So of I take vets with power weapons pistols and storm shields will I get the extra attack and the save. And as I don't have my dex to hand can some one tell me how many points that is for 5. I have an apocalypse battle and have the bits to model them when I get home. You'll have to choose at the beginning of a CC which one you use. But basically you can use Storm shield to protect you while approaching. If you face a squad with PW, like banshee or things like that, choose to keep your shield on CC and lose an A. If you face a squad without PW, then prefer the 2CCW for more A. And if you face an ork squad leaded by a power clawed nob then chose to use the SS for 2 marines and the rest will use the 2CCW... Seems very flexible... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2618839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvendragon Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Several problems I've found with the TH&SS spam list, as others have noticed: The entire army is slow. Mixing elite and slow is annoying. Having a 48" range balances that a bit though. There are only 27 models (in my list). Having only that many models and only 10 ranged shots a turn means that you're not going to stop 200 Orks before they get in close combat. You're focusing far too much on one thing. What happens when you meet a Land Raider spam army? Or a pure Jetbike army that will zoom around with 3++ invulnerables? etc. I'll playtest it today against my friend's Blood Angels though. Counts as. I think the optimal list for maximizing this will simply have one or two in every squad, and following the Mechanized Deathwing we've learned to love. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2618869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 List is not legal. banner and apothecary need to be in same squad. My bad - just move the Apothecary in with the banner unit... :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2618879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmodai650 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I'm also play testing this today. Two games, first with my usual 3 raider / 3 squad list but swap out my 2 SB / PF terminators in each squad for two TH / SS guys. THen I'll try another game against the same opponent using all TH / SS and cyclones in each squad, but keeping the raiders. I really don't think an all foot slogging TH / SS army will work unless you take full advantage of deathwing assualt. Even then, if your opponent throws enough shots at those squads they are still going to crumble. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2618910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Several problems I've found with the TH&SS spam list, as others have noticed:The entire army is slow. Mixing elite and slow is annoying. Having a 48" range balances that a bit though. There are only 27 models (in my list). Having only that many models and only 10 ranged shots a turn means that you're not going to stop 200 Orks before they get in close combat. You're focusing far too much on one thing. What happens when you meet a Land Raider spam army? Or a pure Jetbike army that will zoom around with 3++ invulnerables? etc. I'll playtest it today against my friend's Blood Angels though. Counts as. I think the optimal list for maximizing this will simply have one or two in every squad, and following the Mechanized Deathwing we've learned to love. While all elite armies have problems especially when against the tide of flesh or even a tide of iron on the other side you can do things to help... Assuming that that army of 200 orks hasn't got a load of AP2 template weapons (or maybe even any template weapons) or that it isn't a shooty ork army that will laugh at your 10 templates a turn and dakka you to death you have got some options... mainly in KP missions... objectives make it harder... But sitting in a corner firing missiles works... position your guys right and you might be able to get every single squad in combat with a single ork mob that blocks off other orks mobs while they get killed. If you have to go out and grab objectives it becomes more of a problem especially if you have a lot of objectives to capture. Thunder hammers hurt orks as well B) even if LCs are better. Land raiders yes they are a problem but for anyone who plays a pure terminator army they will be... getting close with a chainfist isn't always easy... personally I will still take assault cannons (although before it was obvious and now I might mix and match) for land raider duty. As for pure jetbike army zomming around... well if they turbo boost they are not shooting you and you can at least contest the objective. Fast moving long range fire power armies like eldar lists will be a problem as they have always been and again this is why I like the assault cannon. I just don't think jetbikes are the biggest issue unless someone has taken a load of shurikan cannons in which case they will shoot rather than turbo boost but they might well move out of LOS afterwards anyway so... still a pickle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2618920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJL Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 oh wow.. we seem to have gone from the bottom of the pile to right up there! my deathwing army is going to be absolutely sick now lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2618926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Firefocht Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Congrats to the brothers of the Dark Angels Chapter. The Emperor knows that you guys deserve this update! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2618960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 A good well-rounded Deathwing unit that capitalizes on the new changes while retaining some utility against fast opponents: Deathwing Squad — 240 pts - Sergeant with lightning claws - Terminator with thunder hammer and storm shield - Terminator with thunder hammer and storm shield and cyclone missile launcher - Terminator with storm bolter and chainfist - Terminator with storm bolter and powerfist Capable of putting out 4 bolter rounds and 2 krak or frag missiles a turn, has 12 PF and TH attacks and 4 lightning claw attacks on the charge, has a chainfist for putting the fear of God in Land Raiders, and two hammers for the auto-stun. Also, each model is armed differently for the wound mitigation techniques that Brother Captain Sharp was talking about. I think this would make a good core unit for a Deathwing-focused army. Belial's unit should be more focused on straight up killyness: Deathwing Command Squad — 130 (Belial) + 290 (DCS) - Belial with TH/SS - Sergeant with TH/SS - Apothecary with TH/SS - Banner Bearer with TH/SS - Terminator with TH/SS and CML - Terminator with TH/SS Add in an Interrogator-Chaplain, perhaps, and rock 'n roll. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2619004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Id make one change- Give the sergent and random terminator A lightning claws. Why? So your not ripped to shreds by some random ork mob before you can strike. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2619029 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Darkshade Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 A good well-rounded Deathwing unit that capitalizes on the new changes while retaining some utility against fast opponents: Deathwing Squad — 240 pts - Sergeant with lightning claws - Terminator with thunder hammer and storm shield - Terminator with thunder hammer and storm shield and cyclone missile launcher - Terminator with storm bolter and chainfist - Terminator with storm bolter and powerfist Test game last night I ran something similar but I left my sergant with the power sword. - Sergeant (Storm bolter Power sword) - Terminator with Lightning Claws - Terminator with thunder hammer and storm shield - Terminator with thunder hammer and storm shield and cyclone missile launcher - Terminator with storm bolter and chainfist Still the same amount of bolters shots as your squad but gives you 2 guys who are PWs at Inn 4 and still Stuns and Chainfist for armor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2619034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkest Angel Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I have a 1750 tourney tomorrow and i updated my list with the new faq here it is tell me what you think. Belial TH/SH Dreadnaught Plasma Cannon Flamer Ven Deathwing Squad Th/SHx5 Cyclone Apoth Banner Deathwing Squad TH/SH x5 Cyclone Deathwing Squad PF / SB x 4 CF/ SB x1 5 Cyclone Deathwing Squad PF / SB x2 TH / SH x2 CF / SB x1 Cyclone Deathwing Squad PF / SB x2 CF / SB x1 LC x2 Cyclone Typhoon Multi-melta Typhoon Multi-melta Typhoon Multi-melta Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2619121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdawalt Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 So freakin amazing... and about bloody time! I read this last night and am still both amazed and extremely happy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2619148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
publius Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 This update really primarily helps Deathwing, but has some smaller benefits to Ravenwing and Greenwing. Overall I don't see people migrating back to the normal marine-based armies, but Deathwing and maybe Ravenwing have some new options. My experience with Deathwing has been that it's better to have squads have a dedicated role, rather than mixing a bunch of shooty and close-combat terminators, so the TH/SS will mostly benefit a close-combat "hammer" unit. Also having that extra stormbolter in a shooty squad is pretty nice and vastly underrated. However from experience having a single guy with a stormshield in a shooty squad, to take the plasmagun hits, can really add to their durability. Also Belial's lack of an Iron Halo is pretty effectively mitigated if he carries a TH/SS. The following is a sample 1500 point Mechanized Deathwing list I came up with just now, balanced between shooting and close combat . We still have things like more expensive dreadnoughts, but that's easily offset by the cheaper prices we pay for some of Belial's wargear options and for Cyclone Missile Launchers. I actually really like the CML, because before it was a problem in objective-based missions to have an expensive squad with an assault cannon sitting in one corner of the map just to hold an expansion. CML-bearing units, however, are great at holding objectives and contributing to the rest of the battle. ------- Belial Dreadnought Deathwing Squad (5) w/ 2 Lighting Claws x2 2 Thunder Hammer/Stormshields 1 Power Fist/Heavy Flamer upgrade two of these people to be the Apothecary + Standard Bearer Deathwing Squad (5) w/ 1 stormbolter/power sword 3 stormbolters/power firsts 1 Cylone Missile Launcher/powerfist/stormbolter Deathwing Squad (5) w/ 1 stormbolter/power sword 3 stormbolters/power firsts 1 Cylone Missile Launcher/powerfist/stormbolter Land Raider Land Raider Crusader ------- Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2619216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thantoes Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I don't think TH&SS spam is all that great. I find the storm bolters very useful. A mech/fast opponent can outrun footslogging terminators and still do some damage back... terminators may get the 3++, but massed firepower will still take them down. IMHO with this FAQ we should look into sinergy instead of spamming whatever had a FAQ boost. I agree 100% with this. All this FAQ should do is enable you to make a few minor changes to streamline and enhance your army to get that little bit extra out of it, it doesnt mean wholesale changes. Afterall, a termie is a termie is a termie. As people have pointed out, massed gunfire will bring down a termie even with a 2+/3++ save. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2619226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notanoob Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 But with FNP...those Termies will be a pain. Even if it's just one squad. And who's to say that we won't just sit in the back with our CMLs and don't start advancing until T3/4? Anyways, I might convince my local DA player not to sell his army to an upstart Space Wolf player and start an Imperial Guard army himself. That would make me very happy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2619246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eremiel Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 PTOMS I have no idea what this means. Googling pulls up all sorts of wonky stuff. Someone send me the code book so I can translate the gibberish. Thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2619315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 He wrote POTMS wrong. It means Power of the Machine Spirit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2619322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhr Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 At last! Damn GW took their sweet time for such a minor and yet pretty important update. There are still unresolved matter left, though (RW Turbo-boost during Scout move, etc.)... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2619329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Remember folks, you can fire your stormbolter and cyclone at the same time. Keep the cyclone on a guy with a normal loadout. Don't put your expensive wargear on your TH+SS guys, because you need to be allocating low AP hits on them. The cyclone member is probably the most valuable guy in the squad. Save him for last. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/7/#findComment-2619524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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