SamaNagol Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I think the real problem with the GK SCs is that when you are looking to unlock specific builds, at tournament size 1500 and 1750 point limits you can afford ZERO fat on a GK list. And Crowe and Draigo are definitely fat and bloated. Spending 50-100pts over the odds for something to unlock a build isn't worth it unless that build is REALLY good or the character is a boss, like Vulkan, Kantor etc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2691625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle-Captain Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Loving the lists here guys. With allot of the tournaments in the UK being 1500 point affairs heres a couple of lists i'm looking at fielding. My restrictions with the lists bellow is all based on models i own or have preordered: - Grey knight grandmaster – 3 servo skulls – melta bombs – digital weapons – rad grenades - master crafted nemesis force sword = 225 Ordo malleus inquisitor = 3 x servo skulls – power armour – psyker - hell riffle = 87 Henchman warband 3 x plasma cannon servitors = 60 2 x Jokero = 70 3 x warrior = 12 Henchman warband total = 142 Chimera = 55 5 x terminators – 4 x nemesis force halberds – 1 x daemon hammer – psycannon - incinerator = 230 5 x terminators – 4 x nemesis force halberds – 1 x daemon hammer – psycannon - incinerator = 230 8 x GKSS – psycannon - daemon hammer = 180 8 x GKSS – psycannon - daemon hammer = 180 Dread knight – heavy psycannon = 170 Total= 1499 ____________________________________________________________ Librarian – Teleport homer – The summoning, warp rift, might of titan – master craft force sword - digital weapons = 185 5 x terminators – 4 x nemesis force halberds – 1 x daemon hammer – psycannon - incinerator Brotherhood banner = 255 Storm raven – hurricane bolters = 235 10 x GKSS – psycannon - daemon hammer – Rhino = 260 10 x GKSS – psycannon - daemon hammer – Rhino = 260 Dread knight – heavy psycannon = 170 Dreadnought = 2 x twinlinked auto cannon - psybolt ammo = 135 Total = 1500 Any feedback gratefully received :whistling: Battle - Captain Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2691873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinion Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Whats going to be the plan for dealing with people who spam Plasma Cannons when using an all PAGK/TDA army? Easiest option is to shove a scouting Dreadknight up in their face, but relies on you getting the first turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2692028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle-Captain Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Rinion i aggree this could be a problem for us Grey Knights. A friend of mine showed me a new guard list he was working on it had 3 leman russ Exacutioners and 2 bane wolfs in. He said please deep strike near me :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2692038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindicatus Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Rinion i aggree this could be a problem for us Grey Knights. A friend of mine showed me a new guard list he was working on it had 3 leman russ Exacutioners and 2 bane wolfs in. He said please deep strike near me :D Well, granted, if you deepstrike behind said leman russ' and banewolves, here's the trick to that : they're not firing behind them, and paying no attention to what's in front. Hell, depending on the makeup of the force dropped in behind, you might take one or two of them out before they get a chance to fire, giving yourself the ability to weather some incoming hits before getting up close and personal with the tanks (which is always scary for whoever owns said tanks). You can't ever bank so heavily on one tactic in particular that you then become unable to adapt to new situations that arise. You have to be able to captitalize off the fact that while some of your dudes may die after the DS salvo is unleashed, that fire is no longer being poured on in front of the tanks, allowing you to get that much closer and bring yourself into psycannon range with other models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2692048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Xeones Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I'm not sure I like the Inquisitor and Henchmen, but having the Mystic was the only way I could pull off a perfect mass Summoning. Uh... not to burst any bubbles, but that Summoning with no scatter thing may not work. "Placed using Deep Strike rules" does not necessarily mean the units arrive by Deep Striking. They could arrive by Summoning. I am no expert, but I heard a similar thing happened with some Ultramarine gate power. So it may get FAQed. I can't really see how anyone could could argue that point. If you are using the rules for Deep Striking, I'd argue that you ARE Deep Striking. Now if the rule had said something like "as if Deep Striking" or "counts as Deep Striking" then you might have had a point, but in my opinion, this wording is as clear as anything gets for GW. Also, nothing similar happened with the Ultramarine's Gate ability. Check the FAQ yourself if you like. Now one thing that gives me pause, is that this particular ability is used "at the beginning of the Librarian's Movement phase" Technically there is no movement phase for individual models or units as per the BRB, but given the wording of many of the other abilities, it's my assumption that you'd use this ability directly before you'd move the unit that the librarian is in rather than at the very beginning of your general movement phase. This assumption is based off the wording of other psychic powers like Psychic Communion which states very clearly that it is an ability that is used at the beginning of the Grey Knight's Movement phase. Whats going to be the plan for dealing with people who spam Plasma Cannons when using an all PAGK/TDA army? Easiest option is to shove a scouting Dreadknight up in their face, but relies on you getting the first turn. Shrouding would help if you are in cover. Beyond that, you're going to want to spread out to minimize templates and if you DS, you'll probably want to run so you're not packed in like sardines there too. I don't think first turn dreadknight assaults are possible since don't dreadknights have to be held in reserve and DSed in? Or was that changed in the final codex? You could do the same thing with a couple of interceptor squads though if DKs are out of the question. For fairly reliable first turn charges, I think I'd be running a Grand Master and Coteaz. The GM for D3 scouting units and Coteaz for the re-roll of seizing the initiative. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2692081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle-Captain Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Vindicatus, I aggree with some of what your saying there, but generally the tanks will be deployed at the back of the board in a pitch battle or annihilation game so getting behind them will be difficult also with the turret weapons having a 360degree arc they will be able to shoot you no matter where you go as long as they can see you. Deep striking will be a real problem against a list like this as terminators will get plasmacannoned to death and power armour will get killed on 2s by his fast Banewolves. Looking at his list i realised that having some units deepstrike and having some in rhinos might be the way forward.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2692097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopToffee Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I really like the look of Vindicares. Whether it is taking down enemy Librarians/RunePriests effectively on a 4+, removing Long Fang sergeants, taking down inv saves on enemy HQs or using the 4D6 pen AP1 shots to go at heavy armour. They have great flexibility at their price. I've loved Vindicares since the models were first released way back when... and now they've been given a nice little boost :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2692259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 After more thoughts and discussing things, I'm going to run this first for a while I think: Karamazov 200 Libby; Shroud, Sanc, Might, 2x skulls 175 10 GK's; 2x Cannon, Psybolt, Hammer, rhino + dozer 295 10 GK's; 2x Cannon, Psybolt, Hammer, rhino + dozer 295 10 GK's; 2x Cannon, Psybolt, Hammer, rhino + dozer 295 5 GK's, Cannon, Hammer, rhino + dozer 170 Psyfleman 135 Psyfleman 135 Total: 1700 The big question is probably 'why Karamazov?'. Well: -Ld 9 is easily failed, especially as you'll be on foot rather quickly with your squads. Re-roll aura is great. Sure, you have ATSKNF; but GK's are really dependant on having all the dinstances 'right'. Making sure you're within 24" with your stuff is critical, falling back for a turn can potentially hurt a lot. -Multimelta, hooray! No really; I like having even just a single MM in my army. -CC assistence: decent stats + rad nades makes him allright'ish at close combat duties. On par with a 'naked' Grand Master I say. -Soaking up wounds. Having him in a squad with the Libby means you can put a lot of shots on him. 2+ and 4 wounds goes a long way. (missiles omnomnom) And when the oppenent has no S10 you could just as well walk him at his own probably. -Orbital strike is cute <3 The HQ section is the hardest one to decide on with GK's I found out. In the end I figured I wanted a way to not be so vulnerable when having to go 2nd. (Rhinos/Psyfleman gone before you start) and I think there are 2 ways to solve this reliably: Shrouding from the Libby (that's why the dozers, you MUST have cover for your rhinos) or Scout from the GM's. 1d3 is not reliable enough for me and 2 Grand Masters? Nah, not at 1700. So Libby it is for me and Karamazov sublements a GK heavy list like this one very well I think. Some of my thoughts atm. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2692632 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyft Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I just had something of a weird idea: Dreadknight backed up by Vindicare Assassin. Basic idea is you use the Dreadknight to assault/template death something, and then the vindicare pops off power-fists or similar save-denial weapons. Obviously the Vindicare can't shoot into CC anymore, but otherwise, it'd be a nice one-two-punch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2692648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 This is either the best thing or the dumbest thing. Probably both: HQ Grandmaster – 260pts - Rad Grenades - Blind Grenades - 3 Servo Skulls - Master-crafted Psycannon Grandmaster – 245pts - Rad Grenades - Blind Grenades - Master-crafted Psycannon Troops Grey Knights Terminator Squad – 275pts - 6 Terminators - Master-crafted Daemonhammer - Master-crafted Psycannon - 5 Halberds Grey Knights Terminator Squad – 275pts - 6 Terminators - Master-crafted Daemonhammer - Master-crafted Psycannon - 5 Halberds Fast Attack Interceptor Squad – 315pts - 10 Grey Knights - Psybolt Ammunition - Psycannon - Psycannon - Mastercrafted Daemonhammer Interceptor Squad – 315pts - 10 Grey Knights - Psybolt Ammunition - Psycannon - Psycannon - Mastercrafted Daemonhammer Interceptor Squad – 315pts - 10 Grey Knights - Psybolt Ammunition - Psycannon - Psycannon - Mastercrafted Daemonhammer Make the Interceptor scoring and go hog wild. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2692695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyft Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 hahaha, I think that's pretty awesome, actually, Marmande. I don't know the point costs well enough to manage it, but I'd go for something silly like this: HQ: Draigo HQ: Grand Master 10x Paladins 10x Paladins 10x Paladins Storm Raven Storm Raven Storm Raven. Combat squad the pallies, put the HQs in with two of them and then into the storm ravens. The squad with all the guns walks forward midfield, while the rest charge up in storm-ravens. Hammer and Anvil. Maybe squeeze a Vindicare in there for extra flexibility. Silly List Is Silly Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2692740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Johnson the 3rd jr Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Holy crap that is a lot of points spent on master crafting. Seems like it could be better spent elsewhere. Even so, list gets a big thumbs up from me in general with the interceptors jumping all over the place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2692761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 In such an elite army, my reasoning was that making sure stuff always (or almost-always) worked was crucial. Psycannons need to hit tanks, Daemonhammers need to smack expensive HQs or fast-moving vehicles, etc. That, and I had the points. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2692767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bccorin Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Any thoughts on this list would be appreciated HQ Draigo 275 HQ Libby Shroud, Summon, Sanc. TP Homer 185 Elites Purifiers X 8: Halberds X6, Psycannon, MCDH 294 Psybolt Ammo, Rhino Purifiers X8: HalberdsX6, Psycannon MCDH 294 Psybolt Ammo, Rhino Troops GKSS X 10: Psybolt Ammo, 2 Psycannons, Rhino 270 GKSS X 10: Psybolt Ammo, 2 Psycannons, Rhino 270 PaladinX1: MCDH, Psycannon 75 Paladin X1: 55 Heavy Support Rifle-Dread X 2: 270 Total Troops: 40 Total Points: 1998 Everyone is saying the Pally's are tough so I figure I make them troop choices (hence Draigo) with minimum numbers and have them DS attached to libby and Draigo. Use the 4 TDA as tank hunters and counters. I figure with 4 rhinos on the board and lots of psycannons the Termies wont be the focus but they can still do alot of damage based on what im hearing. I also though about dropping a GKSS squad and making it a purgation squad for more Psycannons. This is probably wacky but I appreciate the feedback. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2692811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adir Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Here's my go at a 2k pure GK list: HQ - Mordrak; 4 halberd terminators HQ - Librarian; Shrouding, Summoning, Warp rift, Sanctuary, 2 x servo skulls Elite - 10 x Purifiers w/2 x psycannon, 1 x hammer,7 x halberds, rhino Troop - 10 x GKSS w/2 x psycannon, 1 x hammer, rhino Troop - 10 x GKT w/2 x psycannon, 8 x halberds, 2 x hammers Heavy - Land raider redeemer; warp stab. field, psybolt ammo, multi-melta Heavy - Dreadnought; warp stab. field, assault cannon, psybolt ammo Seems like a weird list right? Everything in this list is designed to work with everything else. With grand strategy, you reliably have two scouting rhinos filled with very dangerous guys. Mordrak comes in turn one with the librarian. If you manage to get a third g/strat unit, then the dreadnought gets to move up or outflank. And if you end up with a lot of objectives on the board you can always make the purifiers and dreadnought scoring for a potential total of seven scoring units. GKP and GKSS have two very different roles in this list (or any list really). The GKSS make an excellent fire support unit, especially with psybolt ammo, but with only 1A they shouldn't be your frontline assaulters. On the other hand, purifiers get the cheap halberds and with 2A base they can deliver a heavy punch in combat. These two units, working in tandem, are able to reliably crack open vehicles and get at the passengers inside. Mordrak and the librarian force your opponent to deal with Stealthed, regenerating terminators and creates a tough choice between Mordrak and the GKP/GKSS punch. Finally the librarian can summon the land raider reducing risk with strategic placement of the servo skulls or you can simply drive the land raider down field banking on the distraction of Modrak and his bands of merry men. My concern with the Crowe/purifier lists is that they are almost exclusively power armor and die just like a bog standard tactical marine. Adding to that the Crowe tax which is basically a throwaway (or even a liability) in kill point games (and marginalized in games with only two objectives) calls the toughness of the purifier list into question - at least for me. Ultimately, I think the hardest lists are going to make use of g/strat by giving grey knights the flexibility of responding to both your opponents list and the game objectives PRIOR to deployment. Few armies, if any, can do something like this. Essentially its "legal" and justifiable list tailoring. Edit: Corrected some points and added the multi-melta to the redeemer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2692818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Find points for a Shunting Dreadknight imo. More pressure early game! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2692992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adir Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Find points for a Shunting Dreadknight imo. More pressure early game! Drop the redeemer (give Scout to GKT instead of GKSS). Add teleport DK and 5th man to Mordrak. I really want to be able to run the redeemer but with all the melta in game realize that is not a great investment. The proposed list is intended to protect it as much as possible but one bad cover save and you are out a lot of points! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2693114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Find points for a Shunting Dreadknight imo. More pressure early game! I am morally and ethically obligated to never run the Dreadknight. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2693286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToI Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Find points for a Shunting Dreadknight imo. More pressure early game! I am morally and ethically obligated to never run the Dreadknight. :) show me where the big bad mech touched you...but really, why? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2693426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adir Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Find points for a Shunting Dreadknight imo. More pressure early game! I am morally and ethically obligated to never run the Dreadknight. :) I am right there with you! AFAIK there is no mention of exo-armor being used by the astartes. I guess the early RT dreadnoughts mentioned being piloted so perhaps that was Ward's basis for including this guy. Ultimately, the unit is just an obvious excuse to sell a new model. Which is fine as GW is a business (and I am glad his rules appeared toned down from the leak) but it doesn't feel 100% right to me. A Knight Paladin would have made an amazing addition to this book and would have fit the background as a single man piloted titan: In this image it is definitely bigger than a DK but this was an old epicast version that could have been scaled down for 40k. In fact, if I run the DK if would basically be modeled like a knight paladin. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2693449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 show me where the big bad mech touched you...but really, why? It's objectively terribad; a veritable assault on all the senses: the aesthetic of how it looks, the inward cringe of the soul when you hear its name said out loud and the taste of bile rising in the back of your throat that accompanies it... If I have to explain it... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2694262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherWasted Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Yeah......no. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2694278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 TroopsGrey Knights Terminator Squad – 275pts - 6 Terminators - Master-crafted Daemonhammer - Master-crafted Psycannon - 5 Halberds Regular Terminators can't have master-crafted Psycannons, as only the Justicar can master-craft stuff, and he can't take any special ranged weapons. Otherwise, cool list, let me know how it plays. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2694286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligncomedy Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Honestly, upon a second look, a nice 1750 List *although leaning more towards the inquisition feel* would be: Coteaz @ 100 Karamazov @ 200 Inquisitorial Henchmen @ 157 -10 Acolytes -10 Flak Jackets -7 Bolters -1 Flamer -2 Melta -Rhino Inquisitorial Henchmen @ 157 -10 Acolytes -10 Flak Jackets -7 Bolters -1 Flamer -2 Meltas -Rhino Inquisitorial Henchmen @ 172 -10 Acolytes -10 Flak Jackets -7 Bolters -1 Flamer -2 Meltas -Chimera Inquisitorial Henchmen @ 122 -10 Acolytes -10 Flak Jackets -7 Bolters -2 Flamers -1 Melta -Meltabombs Inquisitorial Henchmen @ 122 -10 Acolytes -10 Flak Jackets -7 Bolters -2 Flamers -1 Melta -Meltabombs Stormraven Gunship @ 225 -Psybolt Ammunition Stormraven Gunship @ 225 -Psybolt Ammunition Dreadnought @ 135 -2 Autocannons -Psybolt Ammunition Dreadnought @ 135 -2 Autocannons -Psybolt Ammunition Basic strategy being simple... 1. Coteaz is there just for the troops choice. Although, Spy Network allows for me to sway the Seize the Initiative roll. I'll probably mount him in the Chimera Squad for the extra space to be taken up. 2. Karamazov will shell out orbital strike relay shots every round. Focusing on Artillery first simply because I'd like to try and keep some degree of battlefield control. Also, if squad is losing and has managed to avoid fleeing, I'll fire on them to try and eliminate the enemy. 3. 2 squads without vehicles, will be mounted in the stormravens for a quick objective grab. After which, the stormravens will hover around the objective and help with supressing fire. 4. Ideally, the objective grab happened first, at which point, I'll run Rhinos and Chimera in a sort of v formation. You know, kinda bust through to help support the objective takers (since I expect them to be under fire) or drive a point into the enemies (assuming they have some strategically protected unit that is an annoyance). These squads are aimed a little more anti tank considering how popular mech lists are. 5. The dreads will basically just be mobile firing platforms. Psybolt ups it for a little more helpful anti-everything.These guys will basically walk around cleaning up any messes left over. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224525-most-powerful-gk-build/page/8/#findComment-2694334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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