Legion Rising

[Jofus]

I was looking back at when you talked about how you did you highlighting but I did not see the what colors you specifically used for the blue-grey highlights. Do you mind telling us what colors or mix you used for the different highlights?

[Subtle Discord]

I mixed my new Blue-Grey highlight colours from the old Citadel paint line. There's only 3 colours used; Shadow Grey (Medium Blue grey), Space Wolves Grey (Bright Blue Grey), and Black.

 

 

Bottle 1) To start I poured off some Shadow Grey from a fresh bottle, and added Black until I had a dark Charcoal Blue Grey, rather close to Black.

 

Bottle 2) Next is a fresh Bottle of Shadow Grey with a bit of Black added to darken just a little.

 

Bottle 3) Next is a bottle of Space Wolves Grey with lots of Shadow Grey added to it - used the excess poured off the first bottle, plus a bit more.

 

Bottle 4) Last is a Bottle of Space Wolves Grey with a bit of Shadow Grey added to take a bit of the edge off.

 

It's really hard to compare these colours to the new line the GW has released. Fenrisian Grey is close to my Bottle 4, and Russ Grey is close to my Bottle 3, but both are a bit darker, and less Blue. Thunderhawk Blue is almost sorta' kinda' like the old Shadow Grey, but has more or a Turquoise (Blue-Green) tint to it, rather than just Blue. When the time comes for it, I'll see if I can find a new formula to match my current colours, Thankfully, being highlights, they don't get used fast. Not sure it will be GW/Citadel that replace them, however.

 

On an unrelated note about painting, I have a new Gold base paint - Vallejo Liquid Gold. It's an alcohol-based paint that is a tiny bit more involved than acrylic paint to work with. But, the results are amazing! One coat, with maybe a second to cover a few thin spots, and you get an almost chrome-like finish. Once it dries (quickly, since it alcohol-based) you can paint on it just like acrylic. I have no problem doing cleanup or adding washes just as I would with acrylic Gold paint. For highlights and blending, I'll still use acrylic, but never again will I paint them on layer-after-layer for a smooth Gold base. Yay!

 

Edited February 9 by Subtle Discord
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[ninjasuperspy]

My honest 'practical' logic is, Land Raiders get a Dozer blade option, but no 'out of the box' gubbin to fit the bill. Also, Land Raiders have to make Dangerous Terrain tests like any other rolling vehicle, so I don't mind a re-roll for the few points it costs.

 

My 'must build cool' logic is, massive Ram that can help the beast punch breaches into fortifications and strong-points, where it will release its squad. I think sometimes 'through' would be a real option. Even if I can't quite do that on the table, that's what I see in my mind's eye. Yes, it serves a purpose filling a void in the armoury, but really, I think it'll just make the 'Raider look more hardcore. :P

 

Been following this thread for a while & wanted to say you do really quality work. Also, this guy built a pretty incredible articulated dozer blade for a land raider, it might be interesting.

 

http://bobpanda.de/warhammer/projects/lord...d-a-dozerblade/

[Subtle Discord]

Yes! That's the idea. I had been sent a photo of that Dozer Blade but didn't know it had a bit of a build log. It's a little more complex (the chains are great, but not practical for a kit) than I'll be going for, but it's definitely in the right vein. That said, I'm going to force myself to not fall prey to distraction and put the Ram on the back burner. It will get more attention soon, but first I need to focus on the Predator...

 

Chaos Predator Armour #1 - Sides & Top

 

The Land Raider turned out so well, that I chose to make the two designs cohesive. I can't wait to see this sitting beside the 'Raider.

 

Chaos Predator Armour #1 - Turret & Turret Weapons

 

It can be hard to see with all of the parts broken down and flat, but the turret profile will change modestly when these armour plates are in place. It will keep the same familiar shape, but I broadened the top slopes out a bit, creating more of an armoured wedge, by removing the undercut of the base turret. I still have to cut test fittings for the base plastic on this design change, but the paper fits looked good. I just hope it looks good together and on the model. If not, it will be back to the drawing board CAD screen. I'll show progress shots of this part especially, once I start building. I think this is going to give a nice change to the profile of the Predator.

 

Chaos Predator Armour #1 - Front & Sponson Weapons

 

As with everything else, the Front Armour plate and Sponsons got a cosmetic overhaul. These parts were very trouble-free, so I didn't make any changes to the base design, just updated the trim to fit with the new motif. This is going to be an interesting build. I've done this before, but usually by bonding the parts to the model. Now, I need to build, but make sure it can come free of the model. Some parts (read: Turret) really benefit from using the miniature as a scaffold. I guess any glue marks that get on the model during construction will be covered by the final kit, so it shouldn't be too bad.

 

Finally, on a somewhat unrelated subject, I feel this is as good a place as any to tell people I have decided to return to College. Given the current employment climate, and life working in the ways it does, the opportunity seemed too good to pass up. The last while I have really had the itch to create (Go figure, eh? Does it show?) and it got me thinking about how I want to make a living. I really enjoy building and designing things, and am good at it, but I'm still just self-taught. I think I need to change that. Right now I am taking a year of Design Foundation to build a proper portfolio, after which I need to figure out what I really want to study. But, I'll worry about that then. For now, classes start next Tuesday, and I haven't been in school in 15+ years. I have plenty on my mind. :)

 

I have no plans for this to change my designing and building Warhammer-related kits. I have far too many ideas, and I'm enjoying building too much. Naturally, time management will be a consideration, but I suspect that I will be able to find some overlap in what I'm studying and what's going on in the studio. Regardless, time will always be found to put towards projects. Beyond the Predator Armour kit, I have a few other things I want to start work on (not just the Ram) but they'll wait until the Predator is well under way. I can't wait to start blathering, but I'm going to keep my mouth shut, for now.

 

Edited February 9 by Subtle Discord
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[Kizzdougs]

Those designs are looking great! I can't wait to see the predator finished :rolleyes:

[The_Chaplain]

Good for you brother! I'm sure you will learn quite a bit once you've gone back to school- a lot of the classes are well and truly interesting. Best of luck to you on that endeavor!

 

As for the predator, those mockups are looking good!

[Subtle Discord]

Thanks guys. Yup, I'm very pleased with how the revision of the plan turned out. I made a few tweaks and changes to the old armour, but for the most part it will cover exactly the same; Front, Back, Sides, Top, Turret, Sponsons, and something for each weapon in the Predator kit.

 

 

Getting a design done is a great feeling. Then I print it have a good last look, and make final small revisions and changes. Then I look at it all, and the scope of it starts to sink in... that's a lot of cutting and drilling. Yup, I'm crazy. A good kind of nuts, this kit is going to be awes'mazing, but I'm completely mad. *Evil villain laugh* Oh well, no rest for the wicked. So much to do, never enough time.

 

Edit:

 

 

And this is why I do paper test fits. Lots of them. I was sure I had these parts correct, and on the one side, I was right. Good fit and has nice clearance. But on the other side... oops! I forgot to compensate for the extra slope, and the armour plate is too long. Simple enough to fix, but I'm glad I found this in paper, and not plastic.

 

Edited February 9 by Subtle Discord
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[Montuhotep]

My God, this is going to look brilliant - you've got the angle perfectly.

[Subtle Discord]

I present the refinement of a design in the process. Paper test fits can catch some problems, but others don't become obvious until you're working with actual plastic.

 

This turret is one of the major changes I'm doing to this design, and it's turning out to be a bit more work than expected. After fixing the length issue on the one side, I was happily cutting and assembling. In my other Predator builds, turrets only have a 0.5mm base layer skinned over the turret surface, to emulate armour. I wanted this part to be stronger, and have more bulk so it can cast a bit easier, so I used 1mm sheet styrene this time to create the base layer. I'm happy with the final outcome. The shape is just right, and changes the look of the turret nicely. The fit is very good, with only a few minor lines that will need cleanup later. But...

 

 

... when I added the hatch copula, an annoying clearance problem came up. Once I started layering the trim on this base, I noticed that the edge of the copula is going to start to scrape. D'oh!

 

I don't want to rebuild in 0.5mm sheet, I like the 1mm skin, and it really will help the part cast easier. I don't want to make major changes to the current design, the way it follows the shape of the turret, I can't give more clearance.

 

After sleeping on it, as the greenstuff set, I think I've come up with the only solution. I need to add a shim of plastic that the copula can sit on, raising it a bit. It seems like the only way, but I hope it doesn't become a problem when I cast this part. Now the big trick will be getting the holes to line up, but that's part of the process.

 

More photos, hopefully showing the successful solution, coming soon.

 

Edited February 9 by Subtle Discord
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[Marshal Traben]

Might this photo be of help to you ?

It's a turret armour plate from the Rhino / Predator Reinforced Armour Kit.

[RolandTHTG]

I know it would be losing some of the detailing, but wouldn't it be easier to cut back the top trim so you don't have overlap?

[Subtle Discord]

Thanks Khairon, it doesn't hurt, but my plates are a different kind of wrap going on. It would be nice to get that uniform of a piece, bit I'm actually aiming for (and really liking) a floating ablative plate around the copula. I'll be adding some bulk behind, to fill the gap.

 

And yes, TJWyrm, on one level, pushing the banding back is the most effective way to get the clearance, but it poses problems in this case. The point of the decoration star/arrows have very little clearance and would need to be changed. The plates would also expose a seam near the copula that I would like to avoid. Not to mention it would require cutting fresh pieces and removing the faulty parts to replace them. It really is amazing how a 1mm change can create so much work.

 

 

I think a simple solution that can salvage the part is just to add a shim. It's 0.8mm thick, (two pieces of 0.4mm laminated together) so it will sit a little lower, and be hidden from view by the copula for the most part. What you can see of it will just look like a bit of a stair-step detail. I can slip this in, and not have to change a thing otherwise. :(

 

Edited February 9 by Subtle Discord
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[Jofus]

If you are looking for an articulated dozer blade you might want to look at this. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=126603

[Subtle Discord]

Thanks Jofus, that's an interesting find. I'd have a hard time chopping up Las'Cannon sponsons just to add a Dozer Blade to a Land Raider, personally, but it's a unique conversion for the idea. It's bit bulky, but re-purposing something will force you to deal with that. All said, it does have some of the feel I'll be going for, a stiff rigid arm that will lift up and out of the way.

 

I've been busy the last while, shifting into the role of student, but it's been a very good thing. It's got me itching to get some serious building done, but with a twist. I've been meaning to get some building articles written, so I figured I'll do a few while I build the Predator Extra Armour. The kit will involve several parts from simple to complex, so it really will be a great build to follow. I'll use this post to bump the thread and say, stay tuned, Styrene Building coming shortly. Settle in for a loooong post, I've got a dozen photos lined up. :tu:

 

Edited February 9 by Subtle Discord

[Subtle Discord]

~ Styrene Building ~ Part 1 ~ (Err... well, how I do it, anyhow.)

 

Well then, where to start? Tools of the Trade, naturally. Me like'y tools!

 

Tools of the Dark Manufactorium

 

1) Razor Handle ~ You can use any good straight Razor Handle, but if you plan on cutting a lot of styrene, this Ring Handle is a blessing. Since it wraps around the finger the blade is placed directly under your finger, so it helps make completely vertical cuts. It's also less likely to slip when you are pressing harder on a thicker styrene sheet, making it safer.

 

The brand name of the maker has long since worn off of mine, but I see them for sale in any well-stocked Art Store or Hobby/Craft Shop. It's one of those things I think is worth spending a few extra dollars for. Not a 'must have' item, but very close. I couldn't live without mine, personally.

 

2) Steel Ruler ~ I prefer a narrow Ruler (less friction) with a clean back (no anti-slip like cork) and only one measurement type per side (cm on one side, inches on the other).

 

A narrow ruler will slide from cut-to-cut easier, so you don't get frustrated trying to get the Ruler to line up. it's doesn't seem like a big thing, until you've got hundreds of cuts to do.

 

A clean back naturally helps with sliding the ruler from cut-to-cut, but more, I like a clean back so the ruler is lying directly on the plastic. That helps get really accurate cuts.

 

One measurement per side helps considerably with making 90

 

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[Killax]

Looks amazing allready. Looking forward to part 2.

[Subtle Discord]

Well then, no time like the present.

 

~ Styrene Building ~ Part 2 ~

 

In our first episode, our intrepid hero *cough* had built several parts for the side armour of a Rhino hull. Today, we find our protagonist test fitting his creation...

 

∙ For a clean fit, lots of small details (mostly rivets) need to be shaved off of the hull. The sanding stick is also great for finishing this task.

 

With all of the small details removed, I can get a very tight fit to the hull. If you're scratch-building a single creation, using the model as a scaffold, and gluing the parts directly to the miniature is a great option. If you need to remove the parts from the model so they can have moulds made of them like I will... well, gluing to the model isn't an option. These joins are going to come right down to the very corner edges of the parts. It's hard to get a strong bond on such a thin connection.

 

∙ With a bit of 2mm x 0.5mm strip, I can cut a selection of plastic wedges/shims that I can use during assembly.

 

They don't need to be perfectly square or even all that straight, when you use these plastic shims they will soften and can be pressed down.

 

∙ With a bead of normal plastic glue along the edge I prep the corner for a weak connection along the inside edge.

 

This bond doesn't need to be super perfect, but enough to create a rough corner. The joins will be a bit soft during the entire process, so you can make small adjustments as you go. Hold the parts together away from the model so the surface of the glue can dry some. Remember this is trying to avoid bonding the part to the model. Once the parts are lightly bonded (it will be very soft and bendy) drape them over the miniature to use it as a jig for the parts. Let the parts dry a bit more while resting on the model, to help it keep the correct shape.

 

I'll be adding the small plastic shims along the seam to add the needed strength to the part. It will all be buried under layers of plastic and greenstuff in the end, but it needs to hold up during the build process. More shims will give more strength, naturally, but it doesn't have to be overboard. Space them evenly, and try to add shims specifically to the corners for extra added strength.

 

∙ As before, work on parts away from the model when applying fresh glue, or if there's a good chance some will bleed and bond the part down.

 

After using the tip of a razor to pick up and place a series of shims, I add a drop of thin glue to each of them. This will soften the entire join, so be careful to support the part while the glue evaporates a bit. If it softens too much, it won't take too long (a minute or so) and it will be soft yet strong enough to adjust and still hold shape. Again, you can place the part on the model as a jig for support, once the glue has dried some. At this point, I also give the plastic shims a press with the back of a razor blade. With the right amount of glue they become very soft and can be 'fused' with the edge with a tiny press. Add another brush of thin glue to finish joins like this, and once dry they are quite strong.

 

∙ Working piece-by-piece, edge-by-edge, you can slowly work around each component part, locking them into the 3D shape they need to have.

 

There's even a few small gaps in this build that are taken care of with these little plastic shims. Since the seam will be filled with greensuff, a small gap is no problem as long as the part can hold its shape as the layers start getting laminated to this base shape. Remember to keep using the model as a jig to support the piece and keep it's shape correct. The plastic will take some time to dry completely, so you have a generous window to make fine adjustments to the fit and shape.

 

Once a part is dry, and the gaps start filling with greenstuff, the part will become extremely strong. Until then, the plastic shims do an excellent job as long as you are gentle with the piece.

 

∙ With a smooth, accurate, and strong base layer, all the layers of plastic to come have a solid foundation to build on.

 

I wanted to salvage the first turret armour plates I cut. But the more I worked with it, I found it really needed a fresh part cut to fix the problems found in the first attempt. Since I was re-cutting it, I took the opportunity to refine the design just a bit. It's surprising how much lager the turret fees with the piece in place. I've very happy about the heavy feel it gives the model, and the silhouette is unique.

 

I'm aiming to get all of the major 1mm thick parts finished before I start any serious trim work. Once the hull is done I'll look at the sponsons. I'm not changing the sponson armour from the first time I built this design, but they are a fiddly parts to construct, and there's four of them. So, it will be nice to get them over with. I'll try to take some step-by-step shots as I go.

 

In Part 3, I might follow the build of the sponsons, or some trim work using lighter 0.4mm plastic sheet. Still not decided, so time will tell.

 

Ok then, time for this basement troll to get back to the work bench. Still much cutting to do...

 

Edited February 9 by Subtle Discord
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[Alpha PTP]

I haven't read through all 14 pages of this wonderful thread, so I don't know if you have addressed this yet, but have you considered casting and selling these? I know I'm not the only one when I say I would be highly interested in purchasing a set or two. You have done a fantastic job with these conversions, mate. You're not breaking any copyright laws by selling these, unless they have copyright on the shape of their tanks, but knowing GW that is entirely possible. Edited September 9, 2012 by Alpha PTP

[Jupiter Forge]

WoW, I am in awe of those tools and of the skill in model-crafting in this thread! Simply marvellous and I can't wait to see that tank completed!

 

I'd say it was unclean heresy, but I'd be kidding myself... this is the divine work of the Emperor!

[AlexCrute]

See, this tutorial is very very good, but I currently have approximately zero intention of using it. I just want my gaming buddy to buy your stuff. I can now show him him it is of european canadian build quality

 

I suppose I should threaten him again too, see if that works.

[Subtle Discord]

Predator Armour update.

 

∙ Like I said before. Fiddly... to... make. All these little parts, just to make a shim that will be hidden under the armour plates.

 

It's a necessary evil, to get the armour plates to float around the weapon properly. A simple gap gives the perception that the weapon can pivot up and down. Exactly how I want.

 

∙ You could say I have a bit of an... obsession... with fit. I am always compelled to try and get the fit as clean as possible.

 

With the base armour plates in place, now comes the layering. One of many things I've learned doing these builds is when to do greenstuff gap filling. Rather than build everything up, and then try to do it in the end, (like I've done many times in the past) it's much better to do it as you go. This time I'll do all of the first layer of trim (the front armour plate is already done) and fill any of the gaps that will be done at that point. Then a second layer of trim will be added, and the last gap filling will be finished. Once that's all done, then comes rivets. So... many... rivets...

 

I'll take some photos as I build up some parts, and do some articles along the way, so everyone can see some of the method behind my madness. This kit is going to be awesome. The more I work with it, the more I like the silhouette the tank has with the new turret shape. I can't wait to see it all fleshed out.

 

Edited February 9 by Subtle Discord
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[DibbZi]

I must learn your ways!

[AekoldHelbrass]

How do you think, will you be able to release second Rhino trim before arrival of new CSM? Because after new CSM most of us will be low on money...

[omgitsduane]

I cannot believe how well put together these have all been, the pieces youre making with the intricate details as they are, and then the fiddly work I can see put into all the behind the scenes... You have a standard above the rest of us and it's amazing to behold. I'd love to buy some of these kits if you ever got into selling them.

[Subtle Discord]

Thanks again, and as always, for the kind words, positive feedback, and wonderful input from everyone. I know I say it often, but I do mean it every time, and really just do want to express my appreciation.

 

For those keeping an eye out for Chaos Rhino Trim Kit #2, the moulds will start to pour this weekend, even if I need to work late into the night. It's been really frustrating that this project had to sit this long, but time just didn't permit it. Mould making takes more setup preparation and cleanup than building, so it's trickier to 'squeeze in' to my tighter schedule. Sometime next week you can expect to see some updates, and maybe even an article giving an overview of my mould-making process. A first casting run will follow soon after.

 

As I mentioned in another post, my schedule has become much tighter with me returning to school. But, I'm taking a Design Foundation program to build up my portfolio to enter a proper Design degree program. While the overall plan is to get a proper degree and increase my employment prospects, I'm sure everyone can see the other benefits. :D A large motivator for me is to learn more processes, techniques, and skills so that I can do the 40K kits I'm doing now even better. *Insert maniacal laugh here* My production will need to slow down while I'm studying, but the new knowledge is going to be put to good use in future designs. Just look at one of the thumbnail drawings I did for my 2D Design class...

 

Humm... I wonder where I've seen this weapon before?

 

This tiny sketch will soon evolve into a larger picture with much more actual depth, detail, and proper perspective. After just a few weeks I'm starting to remember that, holy crap, I think I can draw! This is a very good thing for working out the start of future designs, to say the least. I'll be sure to show some of my 40K inspired work as it evolves and matures. It won't be resin, but it should be nice to look at in between other projects.

 

And finally, to anyone interested in buying from the limited selection I have now, just have a look at my B&C Profile Page for a very early offering of my line. A website/store is planned, but I feel I need to fill out my first line to offset the overhead that will come with that. For now this is a very casual low-key offer to anyone who really wants some of my work, now. Please contact me by Personal Message if you are interested.

 

Thanks again for reading, and for all of your interest. More to come very soon.

 

Edit: Wow, a lot of Chaos threads seem to have sprung back to life. I wonder why that could be? :P

 

Edited February 9 by Subtle Discord
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