Veteran Sergeant does True Scale + Blackstone Fortress

[UltraHawk]

I love these, really strike me as the sort of guys you don't want to see advancing towards your line. Can't wait to see them painted, I think a used, scrached, dirty look would do these guys good. Good job Brother

[Veteran Sergeant]

So have you ever wondered why the bolt pistols don't fit in the holsters that are on the Marine sprues?

 

 

The answer is Games Workshop doesn't care, lol. However, the new answer is because they are holding the Horatius Pattern Bolt Sidearm. A defensive weapon, it has a six round magazine, and was named after a legendary Space Marine hero* whose troops held a bridge for a day and a night against an onslaught of Orks before reinforcements could arrive.

 

The Horatius pattern bolt pistol has been sliced down the center, with the inside faces filed down to make the weapon skinnier, the front sight trimmed off, and the magazine shortened. It's not a perfect fit in the holster, but it is close enough for heroic scale work, lol. I still need to decide how to give it a stubby barrel protruding, but I thought you guys might like the new figure.

 

This Marine has dropped his rifle to transition to his sidearm for immediate threat engagement.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/4/20/355970_md-Space%20Marines,%20True%20Scale.jpg

 

Some detail shots of the weapon itself:

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/4/20/355969_md-Bolt%20Pistol,%20Holster.jpg

 

I haven't decided whether or not to put the front sight back on or not. It's perfectly believable it could be flip up. At the same time, the Marines don't actually use the iron sights on these weapons, so hey. The front end of the weapon looks flared in the picture for some reason, but it is not that way in reality.

 

The right arm is from the gunner arms on the vehicle sprue. I may bend the fingers on the left hand to "wrap" the firing hand better. The post is a close approximation of the traditional isosceles pistol stance, with the offhand wrapped around the front of the firing hand in the push/pull bracing and recoil compensation method.

 

 

*And by Legendary Space Marine I mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horatius_Cocles

Edited April 20, 2012 by Veteran Sergeant

[Grotsmasha]

That new pistol looks awesome. Regrding how to re-add a barrel, ron (B&C member) has the solution. Using plasti-card, roll a cylinder of GS to your desired thikness, let it cure, drill it, cut into barrel lengths, attach to gun, voila!!

 

cheers,

Jono

Edited April 20, 2012 by Grotsmasha

[grandmaster lisander]

So have you ever wondered why the bolt pistols don't fit in the holsters that are on the Marine sprues?

 

 

The answer is Games Workshop doesn't care, lol. However, the new answer is because they are holding the Horatius Pattern Bolt Sidearm. A defensive weapon, it has a six round magazine, and was named after a legendary Space Marine hero* whose troops held a bridge for a day and a night against an onslaught of Orks before reinforcements could arrive.

 

The Horatius pattern bolt pistol has been sliced down the center, with the inside faces filed down to make the weapon skinnier, the front sight trimmed off, and the magazine shortened. It's not a perfect fit in the holster, but it is close enough for heroic scale work, lol. I still need to decide how to give it a stubby barrel protruding, but I thought you guys might like the new figure.

 

This Marine has dropped his rifle to transition to his sidearm for immediate threat engagement.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/4/20/355970_md-Space%20Marines,%20True%20Scale.jpg

 

Some detail shots of the weapon itself:

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/4/20/355969_md-Bolt%20Pistol,%20Holster.jpg

 

I haven't decided whether or not to put the front sight back on or not. It's perfectly believable it could be flip up. At the same time, the Marines don't actually use the iron sights on these weapons, so hey. The front end of the weapon looks flared in the picture for some reason, but it is not that way in reality.

 

The right arm is from the gunner arms on the vehicle sprue. I may bend the fingers on the left hand to "wrap" the firing hand better. The post is a close approximation of the traditional isosceles pistol stance, with the offhand wrapped around the front of the firing hand in the push/pull bracing and recoil compensation method.

 

 

*And by Legendary Space Marine I mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horatius_Cocles

 

i realy like this idea, and it dose make sence to me, and i like how you have modeled it. keep up the good work brother~!

[Dorns Padawan]

Very nicely done mate, love the pose you managed to get - I have never seen this kind of pose done before. The pistol looks ace, great job with the scale too!! Love the way your thread is going matey :blink:

[Blckbuster]

I like the pistol and holster concept, the barrel doesn't need to be removed, a hole in the bottom of the holster would suffice I think

[Subtle Discord]

That new pistol looks awesome. Regrding how to re-add a barrel, ron (B&C member) has the solution. Using plasti-card, roll a cylinder of GS to your desired thikness, let it cure, drill it, cut into barrel lengths, attach to gun, voila!!

 

cheers,

Jono

 

That's not a bad idea, but I'd just use styrene rod. No need to wait for it to set. 1-to-1.2mm hole, rod cut to length and set in the hole, add a dab of super thin glue to lock it and smooth the join. Much like how I do my rivets that I've shown recently in my WIP thread.

 

Beyond that, keep up the stunning work. It's great to see Marines that look like they are actually equipped for a proper deployment. The creativeness in the posing just adds to an overall great effort. This force is going to look very hardcore on the field.

[NightHunters]

REALLY likeing the Boltpistol, very tidy, very clever, very nice!

[Veteran Sergeant]

I'm glad you guys like it. I'm actually a fan of your blog NH. Several of your models have been saved in my inspiration folder for modeling and posing ideas. I like the vibe your Marines give off too. Your tank crews are especially good and I love the scout conversing with the tank commander. So much character crammed into two inert plastic models. I have been wrestling with how I'm going to do up the vehicles because I have problems with the visual incongruity of the hatches on top of Marine tanks since it is impossible for the Marines to actually fit through them, lol.

 

As far as the bolt pistol goes, perhaps I wasn't entirely clear. I have considered several different ways to do the barrel, I just haven't decided on which one because simply trimming down the stock one didn't look right, lol. But I appreciate the suggestions. Hopefully they help somebody else out when they read them.

[Veteran Sergeant]

So I decided to reclaim some old metal heavy weapons. Took a solid bath in simple green to strip the paint, and whatever madness I used to paint this guy's weapon way way back in the day was quite stubborn.

 

But, in the spirit of capturing the feel of Rogue Trader, I bring a 2nd Edition las cannon.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/4/30/360207_md-Old%20school%20Las.jpg

Cut the right arm from an assault Marine's bolt pistol, filed and re-positioned it to fit the grip of the old heavy weapons. Then I took the bracing arm from the missile launcher, clipped the hand and rotated it to properly brace the position of the lascannon.

 

And here he is with his other two Devastator brothers:

 

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/4/30/360186_md-Space%20Marines,%20True%20Scale.jpg

 

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/4/30/360185_md-Space%20Marines,%20True%20Scale.jpg

 

The metal lascannon on the right has a nice, weighty feel to it, but damn, is it a pain to glue it together. I had forgotten about that, lol. You get spoiled working with all plastics. Obviously the missile launcher will eventually have something under his foot that he is stepping on.

 

The next magnetized Sergeant is in the works, but I haven't finished any left arm options yet, lol. He's a bit more dynamically posed than the first guy.

[Lachdannan]

Wow, haven't seen one of those 2nd Ed lascannons for a long time. Cool looking devastators, and love the concept for the pistol.

[Andrew J]

Are you going to put a targeter in front of their eyes? I think that would complete the look. Otherwise they look like they are looking sideways down the barrel. I think a small targeting block or clear plastic would look ace, like on the missile launcher.

[EmbattledSoul]

the one holding the 2E las-cannon looks like hes actually hefting a heavy weapon... i dig it. Its almost as if he was a normal joe tossing a piece of a .50 on their shoulder to displace.

[NightHunters]

Great looking Devs you have here chap, been a while since I last saw the old second Ed. LC, very cool but do agree with Andrew J, some kind of targetting array would look great.

 

Also:

I'm actually a fan of your blog NH. Several of your models have been saved in my inspiration folder for modeling and posing ideas. I like the vibe your Marines give off too. Your tank crews are especially good and I love the scout conversing with the tank commander. So much character crammed into two inert plastic models. I have been wrestling with how I'm going to do up the vehicles because I have problems with the visual incongruity of the hatches on top of Marine tanks since it is impossible for the Marines to actually fit through them, lol

 

Many thanks indeed, always feel tanks look a bit bland without some crewman sticking out some where but I totally agree, those hatches would never take a marine in full battle plate but they (the marines) look a bit silly if you leave the shoulder pads off even though you can then almost imagine them fitting in the hatches. Thus whilst I like for things to "work" on my models, (turrets can rotate fully with out firing into another part of the tank, ejection ports line up with barrels etc) I have chosen to ignore the hatch dilemma but looking forward to seeing your solution to this conundrum!

 

Looking forward to the next instalment.

 

FTE

[Veteran Sergeant]

Been super busy, but here are a couple of new guys. Semester is coming to an end, work will have finally settled down, so I should be able to get back on the wagon.

 

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/5/13/366094_md-Space%20Marines,%20True%20Scale.jpg

 

On the right, is Brother Lefty. Marines are ambidextrous, but there's no reason to fire left handed unless you have to. But sometimes perhaps there's a wall or something to fire around. I feel like left handedness is close to heresy though, so perhaps Brother Lefty will be under close Chaplain scrutiny too.

 

On the left is my reloading brother. He's in mid action, having dropped the empty mag on the run and is moving to his pouches for a spare. Not 100% happy with him yet, so I may end up re-posing the left arm at a different angle.

 

As far as my tanks, I think a lot of them will end up just having closed hatches with the remote storm bolters or missile launchers. Being "battle ready", they'd be buttoned up. However, I'm sure one or two of them will have additional bits. I do agree that my tanks need to "work". I have an old first-run model Land Raider Crusader where I *cringe* glued the weapons onto the back hatches, meaning troops disembarking through the side doors block the weapons. Gah, the atrocities we commit when we're young and dumb. Still trying to figure out how I want to cut them off to put them in their proper place up front. On the same vein, my Razorbacks and Predators need to make sure they have no gubbins blocking their ability to traverse with the turrets. No goofy pintle mounts, or radar dishes in the way, lol.

[Veteran Sergeant]

A couple new guys. My most recent projects have been time consuming, including reclaiming my old metal/plastic Land Raider Crusader that I foolishly, in my youth, glued the hurricane bolter sponsons on behind the side embark doors. Took a long while to fix, and my fingers hurt afterwards. But I'm a lot happier with the model now. I was never going to be able to mentally reconcile the idea of the guns having to cease firing while the squad jumped out, lol. Fortunately I finished a few new infantry models first.

 

First up is my first Assistant Gunner. Heavy Bolters and Missile Launchers go through a lot of ammunition. Therefore, for every HB or ML model in my army, there will be a companion model in the squad carrying spare ammunition. In the Marines we call these guys Assistant Gunners, and the job often falls to the new guy. Sucks to be the new guy when you might be the new guy for a decade or more. ^_^

 

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/5/23/369433_md-Heavy%20Bolter,%20Space%20Marines,%20Tall%20Scale,%20True%20Scale.jpg

 

 

After that, I have two new "looters". The guy on the left has picked up an exarch's shuriken catapult as a souvenir. Or maybe for heretical use. Who knows? This is Rogue Trader after all.

 

The second guy has mounted the skull from a Tau Auxiliary from the unit's previous campaign on his shoulderpad. The unfortunate donor was a fantasy Lizardman from the old boxed set I bought at some point and had never used. I filed off any skin detail, removed the eyeballs, and then hollowed out the underside of the mouth.

 

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/5/23/369432_md-Space%20Marines,%20Tall%20Scale,%20True%20Scale.jpg

 

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/5/23/369431_md-Space%20Marines,%20Tall%20Scale,%20True%20Scale.jpg

[Obscura]

FNG always gets to hump extra ammo.

 

Enjoying your conversions and unique positioning so far, keep it up!

[Veteran Sergeant]

Glad you like them. I really like the aesthetic that having Marines carrying spare ammo gives off. I think it will work especially well in the Devastator Squads. Though all the energy weapons will retain the standard backpacks, so it may not be an issue with the Multimeltas, Heavy Plasmas, and Lascannons.

 

 

The prototype for my custom built Combimeltas, currently magnetized to a Sergeant.

 

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/5/25/370101_md-Space%20Marines,%20Tall%20Scale,%20True%20Scale.jpg

 

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/5/25/370102_md-Space%20Marines,%20Tall%20Scale,%20True%20Scale.jpg

 

This solution for combi-meltas will be ridiculously cheaper than buying the official bits, and I like the look of it. I think as I perfect the process,the subsequent ones should look much better. The flat top to the melta barrel works aesthetically to provide clearance for the bolter barrel. The power source is from a multa bomb cut lengthwise and narrowed. I think i may go back and shave some of the details off of the rifle like the eagle.

 

The power fist was cut free from the "punching" pose at the shoulder,and reattached to a regular shoulder mount in order to achieve the less ridiculous pose, while retaining the closed fist look.

[Rhetoricus]

This bro is exactly the look I'm after. Would you mind elaborating a little on what you've done with the arms on the bolter marines. Thive been trying to acheive effective firing positions for ages.

 

I can't believe I'm actually looking forward to breaking apart, stripping and remaking models I've just spent hours painting. It's madness I tell thee and its all your fault sir. Absolutely brilliant. I love it.

[Veteran Sergeant]

I will take some detail pictures this afternoon and try to put them up tomorrow for you.

 

The important thing to note is that everything in this thread is very basic modeling. No need to be a master to pull these things off so don't be intimidated by cutting up your models. Just be careful and use a good blade. When posing, you just have to look at what's important to realism, physiologically speaking.

 

Think about the angles of comfortable, natural movement and the overall range of motion in the arms. It revolves around the shoulders, elbows and wrists. There is only so much you can do with shoulders unless you're going to be green stuffing or cannibalizing the various arms which have more complicated shoulder attachments. Some of the basic arms sit at different angles at the glue point. Might want to analyze the various arm bits you have. One handed arms seem to sit at a more distinct "outward" angle a lot of the time. Don't be afraid to mix and match arm bits as you cut them apart because most forearms are interchangeable; just keep track of them, lol. Fortunately for Space Marines, almost all good firing stances (in real life) involve shoulders being tight and tucked. So the elbows and wrists are where you need to concentrate. Unlike real arms, the armored arms of Space Marines are more or less cylindrical, so you can rotate them and revolve them without looking strange. Most of my arm cuts are made just below the "under-shoulder pad" that's part of the actual arm bit. At this point, you can rotate the arms pretty much at your discretion since the cut will be hidden underneath the shoulder pad.for the most part If you're picky, you'll need to do some clipping, filling and filing to make them perfect. Depends on what level you're taking your project to. For table-top quality miniatures, there's not a whole lot of heavy work needed.

 

The wrists are the other point of movement in the human arm you're going to take into consideration. There are two basic ways. Clip behind the wrist ring, or just the hand and soft armor wrist. Behind the ring is easiest, and ideal for the "support" left hands since what you typically need to do is rotate the hand to accept the new firing stance, but not mess with the angle it sits lengthwise. The right hands are probably best cut just in front of the wrist ring, leaving the joint intact. At that point you can carefully file the soft armor at whatever angle you might need. For "one handed" weapon grips like the combi-melta, I suggest using extra Assault Marine arms with bolt pistols or plasma pistols you aren't using (there should be plenty of these lying around if you have any Assault Marines in your army). Can even use the melee weapon arms. They're just more of a pain to shave off sometimes and won't have "trigger finger" hands. The wrists on them are typically already angled where you want them to be, while the bolter cradle arms have this unnatural upward angle to them because they are designed for a "hip firing" look. Whoever modeled them watched too many 80s movies for inspiration. ;) Those wrists will almost always need to be modified, and at the very least rotated so that the weapon doesn't have some kind of oddball cant to it and sits straight up and down (unless your pose calls for a cant).

 

My own personal philosophy is not to try too hard to make them look down the sights. It just won't work, and will look strange when it does. The guns are too big, and the chests too deep so the heads won't tilt far enough over. Plus, they've got a little nubbin on the gun that looks like a sensor and supposedly awesome helmet targeting (another reason the models need helmets). The iron sights on the gun are like the targeter on the missile launcher. It's an aesthetic thing for the model which is anachronistic to the genre. I've contemplated shaving off all the front sight posts on my models. What you're looking for in these poses is a more aggressive look. Space Marines, with their powered armor, don't need to worry about marksmanship fundamentals. But they're going to use them anyway. It's instinctive at a certain point. As Scouts and neophytes they didn't have power armor. They'd have been taught how to shoot correctly, and by the time they've been practicing doing it a decade or more, every damned day, it's going to be automatic. Plus, it just looks better.

 

Again, I'll try to find some good examples. The sergeant above is probably a good example, since both of his arms have only basic construction with no finishing on them. So you can see the cuts exactly as they were made. That, and they are magnetized and will come off easy, lol. I'll use this guy on the right too, since his pose is a bit more complex.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/3/19/343353_md-Troopers.jpg

 

 

One thing I forgot to mention about my A-Gunner was that I shaved off his skull emblem on his forehead. There's just too many of them. I've not liked that bit. The iron skull is supposed to be a Sergeant designator, and yet 2 of the 5 generic heads on the sprue have them, lol. Wasn't complicated to remove. Probably going to go back and do it to all the rest of the models too.

[Rhetoricus]

I can't thank you enough for taking the time to write that post. You have given me the confidence to attempt the marine army I've always wanted. Cheers Sarge.

[Montuhotep]

Though all the energy weapons will retain the standard backpacks, so it may not be an issue with the Multimeltas, Heavy Plasmas, and Lascannons.

I think the ammo humper concept even for these weapons is still possible, albeit perhaps not straightforward.

Plascans still have the same Hydrogen fuel canisters as the guns and pistol do, which although they're not huge would look good as a bandoleer around an assistant gunner's torso or perhaps as a part of his belt kit.

Ditto the melta, potentially, as I've seen the horizontal Devastator 'Melta Bomb' used in such a way before now.

Lascannon may present more of a challenge since the cells seem pretty bulky even within the confines of the gunners' pack. Perhaps the cradle from the FW pre-Heresy lascannon may give you an idea?

[Ovidius Incertus]

This is most spectacular work. Very impressive.

 

If I may make a suggestion for the fellow who's reloading his bolter:

 

I would cant the bolter so that the magazine well is facing inward, toward body center, and depress his chin so that he's looking at the gun. When doing a speed-reload with a rifle, a desultory flick of the rifle outboard ensures the empty is clear, while the support hand reaches for a fresh magazine. The rifle itself is then canted inward (say around 45*) to reduce the distance between magazine well and the support hand with its fresh magazine. Ideally your eyes remain on the target and muscle memory helps to guide your hands, but a rifle isn't a "hands-find-hands" reloading scenario, so it's usually taught to look at your reload and be peripherally aware of your target. Who knows if a genhanced SM would need to do that, though.

 

Perhaps you could also reposition the left arm, which is going for the fresh magazine, so that it's closer to the top of the pouch, indicating he's going for the flap (though why a SM would have such a cumbersome system for storing his gear, especially mags, is beyond me...but, hey, they apparently carry their sidearms in holsters that are akin to the "widowmaker" retention holsters!). Your normal body posture for a rifle magazine reload (where the fresh mag is stored on the waist) will also include your torso tilting toward the dominant hand (the one holding the weapon) side and the support arm shoulder shrugging higher to reach the waist for a new mag. Torso will also twist slightly forward on the dominant side.

 

These subtle tweaks to posture and arm positioning might help get the most realistic setup for a SM reloading a bolter on the fly. I hope you leave the empty on the ground when you get around to basing them, just to emphasize the fact that he's changing mags.

 

But, in the grim darkness of the far future, everyone seems to use insanely cumbersome and unergonomic weapons and accessories, so who knows if how one reloads a rifle today has any bearing on 38k years in the future! :unsure:

 

And also, thank you, thank you, thank you for having your model using the bolt pistol using TWO hands. Much more realistic. I also very much like the cut-down pistol.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Ovidius Incertus

[Veteran Sergeant]

I'm with you. I taught the stuff to real world Marines for years, lol. I actually hesitated to do a reloading Space Marine because of the various issues that come to the fore trying to pose a 28mm model correctly to suggest movement.

 

My reasoning for the way he posed right now:

 

In real life, you would indeed cant the rifle inspect the ejection port to ensure it wasn't a stoppage instead of an empty magazine. Also, you'd guide the magazine to its seating to ensure a proper fit. But we do those things because we're humans. The way I see it, Space Marines would have all kinds of diagnostics to maintain weapons counts (after all, the weapons are feeding targeting information, ammunition count should be simple), and they'd have been drilling for decades on reloading, so the process would be like blinking. If I were doing an Imperial Guardsman, definitely. Space Marines are trans-human, super-human, if you will. They have little use for the trivial problems that we men face. :unsure: I modeled him looking ahead on purpose, just as Brother Notasinglef**k will be marching forward with a seared energy weapon hole in his chest/shoulder that has disabled his arm and would have... severely perturbed a normal man.

 

Arm/hand placement I'm definitely not happy with. That was where the arm and hand ended up when I moved them. The question is whether or not there is the ability to actually do that given the dimensions of the Marine sculpts. Also I don't like the Cold War style magazine pouches and holsters, but hey, that's part of the 40K aesthetic. That, and well, doing something else requires modeling pouches from scratch which I can't reconcile time/resource/skill wise. I'm definitely going back to that model at some point. I wanted to put him together to judge if it could be done successfully. A proof of concept, if you will. He might end up in pieces if I don't like him, or relegated to 6th Squad at the back of the display. ^_^

[Rhetoricus]

I love the last two posts. The attention to detail is fantastic. If I may offer my humble opinion though I would have to disagree with with you on just one point Incertus. It would be better to represent the spent mag by clipping up brass rod and littering the base with spent bolt casings.

I used to be a para and we didn't just throw our magazines away! I can't imagine a space marine would. Just think about how much ammo SM go through. The Imperium would have been bankrupted eons ago.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Rhetoricus