XBA: The Spear of Telesto

[Hintzy]

Really love the detail on the cape, great work!

[Xenith]

Of late I've been focussing on my Tyranids, and my second longest played army, the Thousand Sons due to the new codex, however I still have a huge backlog of Space Marines to paint, and fun to have! I've started on an ETB-Redemptor Dread that I managed to get for a good price.

This will be Flesh Eaters, however it has a press moulded half BA icon where the company insignia will go, with the Chapter Icon on the left shoulder. I nicked the waist-tabard banner from 's incredible Redemptor conversion. I was tempted to go a bit more crazy with this model, but 1) my view of the Flesh Eaters is a bit more utilitarian/pragmatic as opposed to damned, 2) couldn't be bothered/just want it on the table 3) I like the more plain, unornamented models to I can focus more on the freehand and weathering as opposed to painting millions of gems and gewgaws. That said, I wanted to be able to field both weapons, so I traded some bits for the macro plasma incinerator, which handily came with the elbow connector/cog. I stuck magnets in it, then into the plasma cannon before assembling. Hacking up the connections to get the mags into the heavy onslaught was trickier, and needed a little GS work to keep them in place and to rebuild the elbow joint.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Xenith

[Majkhel]

When Blood Angels and World Eaters meet in one mini ;)
Nice catch on the Redemptor and nice embellishments too. Looking forward to seeing it painted. Will you try your hand with contrasts on him or do you choose the traditional path?

[Xenith]

When Blood Angels and World Eaters meet in one mini

Nice catch on the Redemptor and nice embellishments too. Looking forward to seeing it painted. Will you try your hand with contrasts on him or do you choose the traditional path?

 

Traditional method for this guy - the contrasts don't give me the shade I need - he'll get sprayed meph red, thenlayer of evil sunz scarlet like the rest of the FE's - I *have* been shading using the FT red contrast though, really clings to the recesses, so I'll probably continue with that.

[Xenith]

Redemptor Rednought.

Really not sold on the banner at the moment, seeing it primed. I think I was going for a titan/knight leg banner effect, but it looks a little odd on the dread- opinions? Maybe it needs to be moved forwards in front of the groin plate, more like a loin cloth?

The red there is Halfords red plastic primer - it actually did a decent job, and is arounf

[Charlo]

I'd say it probably needs to go on a banner above his head, like the dreads of yore!

[Majkhel]

I had the exact same thought :)

[Xenith]

He'll be so tall though Edited September 18, 2021 by Xenith

[Majkhel]

OK then, how about moving it to cover the pelvis section? Sure it might look  a bit like an apron, but then again - tradition ;)

[Xenith]

That might work a bit better. So unsure on this. I'll have to play around with him a bit more. Been painting nids for Bug's Life, and Thousand Sons to get my army suitable for a 9th ed battlefield, so my BA have been neglected of late. 

[Xenith]

A few guys in my group are going to a team tourney early next year and are getting some practice games in - I've been challenged, so need a dangerous 2k TAC list to fight some Dark Angels. This is what I have so far, based on my 1k list from before, with some additions. I'm ~300pts over, so could do with some advice on what to cut back. Possibilities are the redemptor, the eradicators, the death co.

 

The rough gameplay for the list would be to take Oath, engage, something else, maybe Linebreaker. The terminators/ Bladeguard run for the middle of the board and try to hold it to get me Oath. Infiltrators screen my deployment from hte inevitable T1 deathwing strike +/- drop pod. Whirlwind is there for suppression fire to make anything pay. Priest is there to revive the termies, attack bikes, bladeguard, whatever as needed. Eliminators also rocket around the board, moving 12"/turn with concealed positions. 

 

Vanvets and sanguard go after the juciest targets. Death co are there to try and Forlord Fury into their lines T1 to block them into their own DZ to give me the advantage in the objective game. 

 

We're pretty slow players, with limited time, so most games only go to T3, so early advantage is key. We'll probably play GT:21 missions/secondaries, so Stranglehold is also a potential. 

 

Thoughts?

 

+++ BA 2k Tourney (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [129 PL, 10CP, 2,307pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Blood Angels) [129 PL, 10CP, 2,307pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Blood Angels

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Gametype: Matched

+ HQ +

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: 2. Artisan of War, 4. Mantra of Strength, 5. Gift of Foresight, Adamantine Mantle, Litany of Hate, Stratagem: Angel Exemplar, The Armour Indomitus, Warlord

Sanguinary Priest [7 PL, -1CP, 155pts]: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Jump Pack, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

+ Troops +

Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]
. . 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades
. . Incursor Sergeant

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 130pts]: Helix gauntlet
. . 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. . Infiltrator Sergeant

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 130pts]: Helix gauntlet
. . 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. . Infiltrator Sergeant

+ Elites +

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [10 PL, 140pts]
. . 3x Bladeguard Veteran: 3x Frag & Krak grenades, 3x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 3x Master-crafted power sword, 3x Storm Shield
. . Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Heavy Bolt Pistol

Death Company Marines [15 PL, 205pts]: Jump Pack
. . Death Company Marine: Power fist
. . Death Company Marine: Power fist
. . Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol, Power axe
. . Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol, Power maul
. . Death Company Marine
. . . . Bolt pistol and chainsword
. . Death Company Marine
. . . . Bolt pistol and chainsword
. . Death Company Marine
. . . . Bolt pistol and chainsword

Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 180pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

Sanguinary Guard [17 PL, 202pts]
. . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword
. . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword
. . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword
. . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword

Terminator Assault Squad [9 PL, 215pts]
. . Assault Terminator Sergeant
. . . . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Thunder hammer
. . 4x Assault Terminator w/THSS: 4x Storm shield, 4x Thunder hammer

Vanguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 195pts]: Jump Pack
. . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
. . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
. . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
. . Vanguard Veteran: Power fist, Storm shield
. . Vanguard Veteran: Power fist, Storm shield
. . Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Power fist, Storm shield

+ Fast Attack +

Attack Bike Squad [6 PL, 180pts]
. . Attack Bike: Multi-melta
. . Attack Bike: Multi-melta
. . Attack Bike: Multi-melta

+ Heavy Support +

Eliminator Squad [5 PL, 75pts]: Bolt sniper rifle
. . Eliminator Sergeant: Instigator Bolt Carbine
. . 2x Eliminators: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Camo cloak, 2x Frag & Krak grenades

Eradicator Squad [7 PL, 155pts]: Heavy melta rifle
. . Eradicator
. . Eradicator Sgt
. . Eradicator with MM: Multi-melta

Whirlwind [7 PL, 125pts]: Whirlwind castellan launcher

Created with BattleScribe

Edited October 11, 2021 by Xenith

[Xenith]

I guess this is a perfect list then! 

 

I wanted to make the chaplain model over the weekend, but didnt get a chance, so I've switched things up a bit:

 

+++ BA 2k Tourney v Paul (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [112 PL, 10CP, 1,995pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Blood Angels) [112 PL, 10CP, 1,995pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Blood Angels Successor, Custom Chapter, Master Artisans, Whirlwind of Rage

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Gametype: Matched

+ HQ +

Captain on Bike [6 PL, -1CP, 130pts]: 2. Artisan of War, 5. Gift of Foresight, Adamantine Mantle, Storm shield, Stratagem: Angel Exemplar, The Armour Indomitus, Thunder hammer, Warlord

Sanguinary Priest [7 PL, -1CP, 155pts]: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Jump Pack, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

+ Troops +

Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]
. . 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades
. . Incursor Sergeant

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 130pts]: Helix gauntlet
. . 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. . Infiltrator Sergeant

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 130pts]: Helix gauntlet
. . 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. . Infiltrator Sergeant

+ Elites +

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [10 PL, 140pts]
. . 3x Bladeguard Veteran: 3x Frag & Krak grenades, 3x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 3x Master-crafted power sword, 3x Storm Shield
. . Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Heavy Bolt Pistol

Death Company Marines [15 PL, 180pts]: Jump Pack
. . Death Company Marine: Power fist
. . Death Company Marine: Power fist
. . Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol, Power axe
. . Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol, Power maul
. . Death Company Marine
. . . . Bolt pistol and chainsword
. . Death Company Marine
. . . . Bolt pistol and chainsword

Invictor Tactical Warsuit [8 PL, 160pts]: Twin ironhail autocannon

Sanguinary Guard [17 PL, 170pts]
. . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword
. . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword
. . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword

Vanguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 160pts]: Jump Pack
. . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
. . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
. . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
. . Vanguard Veteran: Power fist, Storm shield
. . Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Power fist, Storm shield

+ Fast Attack +

Attack Bike Squad [6 PL, 180pts]
. . Attack Bike: Multi-melta
. . Attack Bike: Multi-melta
. . Attack Bike: Multi-melta

+ Heavy Support +

Eliminator Squad [5 PL, 75pts]: Bolt sniper rifle
. . Eliminator Sergeant: Instigator Bolt Carbine
. . 2x Eliminators: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Camo cloak, 2x Frag & Krak grenades

Eradicator Squad [7 PL, 155pts]: Heavy melta rifle
. . Eradicator
. . Eradicator Sgt
. . Eradicator with MM: Multi-melta

Whirlwind [7 PL, 125pts]: Whirlwind castellan launcher

Created with BattleScribe

 

Chaplain swapped for an almost as cheap Captain. I wanted both indomitus for the 1+ save and Addy mantle, so I was forced to take the hammer to deal some damage. I could easily swap the hammer for teeth of terra to save 20pts, but drop to a 2+/4++ save. That might be the right choice with the gift of foresight reroll. Between foresight and master artisans, my captain should be able to hit with 100% of attacks, with 6's exploding. 

 

I was torn between the Terminators (1+/4++) and the Bladeguard (2+/4++), but with the list being ~215pts over I decided to nix the TDA, hoping THP will see me through the troubles to come. I repaced the Redemptor for an Invictor for early pressure on the centre and because I dont have a painted Redemptor. Swapped out the BA trait for Artisans and Whirlwind - Artisans is going to help a lot with my terrible luck with multimeltas, and save my CP for other stuff. My opponent is going to be agggressive, so I'm not too concerned about the +1" to charge. hopefully the Bladeguard can advance rapidly to the middle. 

[Majkhel]

Sorry, I personally got so consumed by the Leviathan (  ) that I forgot I actually wanted to comment about Terminators and BGVets being kinda too similar choices except for loadout that is. But given that you already had some anti-tank threats elsewhere made them kinda redundant. But you already addressed that :P

[Xenith]

I played this list in the end:

 

+++ BA 2k Tourney v Paul (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [112 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Blood Angels) [112 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Blood Angels Successor, Custom Chapter, Master Artisans, Whirlwind of Rage

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Gametype: Matched

+ Stratagems +

Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

+ HQ +

Captain on Bike [6 PL, -1CP, 130pts]: 2. Artisan of War, 5. Gift of Foresight, Adamantine Mantle, Storm shield, Stratagem: Angel Exemplar, The Armour Indomitus, Thunder hammer, Warlord

Sanguinary Priest [7 PL, -1CP, 155pts]: Artificer Armour, Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Jump Pack, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

+ Troops +

Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]
. . 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades
. . Incursor Sergeant

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 130pts]: Helix gauntlet
. . 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. . Infiltrator Sergeant

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 130pts]: Helix gauntlet
. . 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. . Infiltrator Sergeant

+ Elites +

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [10 PL, 140pts]
. . 3x Bladeguard Veteran
. . Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Heavy Bolt Pistol

Death Company Marines [15 PL, 190pts]: Jump Pack
. . Death Company Marine: bolt pistol, Power fist
. . Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol, Power axe
5x  Death Company Marine: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol

Invictor Tactical Warsuit [8 PL, 160pts]: Twin ironhail autocannon

Sanguinary Guard [17 PL, 165pts]
. . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
4x Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword


Vanguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 160pts]: Jump Pack
. . 3x Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
. . Vanguard Veteran: Power fist, Storm shield
. . Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Power fist, Storm shield

+ Fast Attack +

Attack Bike Squad [6 PL, 180pts]
3x  Attack Bike: Multi-melta

+ Heavy Support +

Eliminator Squad [5 PL, 75pts]: Bolt sniper rifle
. . Eliminator Sergeant: Instigator Bolt Carbine
. . 2x Eliminators

Eradicator Squad [7 PL, 155pts]: Heavy melta rifle
. . Eradicator
. . Eradicator Sgt
. . Eradicator with MM: Multi-melta

Whirlwind [7 PL, 125pts]: Whirlwind castellan launcher

Created with BattleScribe

 

Dark Angels

 

Chaplain of death - chainsword, teeth of terra, jump pack, exhortation of rage, litany of faith, wise orator, always wound on a 2+ WLT. 

Librarian -JP Might of heroes, veil of time, bolter

Ezekiel - mind worm, fear of something

 

5x assault intercessors

10x tactical marines, bolters

10x tactical marines, bolters

 

5 Deathwing Terms, THSS

 

10x Assault marines, serge, combat shield, eviscerator.

 

Gladiator Lancer, all the add ons. 

Devestator Squad - 4x MM, 1x Combimelta (In drop pod)

 

Dark Talon

 

Rhino

Drop Pod, deathwind launcher.

 

Mission:

Retrieval Mission

My Secondaries - Stranglehold, Oath, ROD.

Opponent Secondaries - assassinate, engage, no prisoners (bad choices. I ran through army selection with my opponent after the game, next we'll do secondaries).

 

This was a bit of a drubbing, but my opponent took it in good humour. I picked Stranglehold as an alternative to engage just to see how I'd do, and it was definitely easier., being able to focus on one flank.

 

We were playing with GT/ITC style terrain, so 4 large pieces in the centre to provide obscuring with dense scatter. I deployed all in cover, my opponent didnt. infiltrators on my home objective, eliminators up top on my closer left objective, whirly at thenback n cover. Invictor on the left flank opposing a=he rhino with tacs to pressure the left forward objective. 

 

Opponent gets first turn, I forlorn my DC forwards into what I thought was a safe spot - being LOS blocked from the front. Drop pod comes down on the flank of the building and opens up into the DC, meltaing all but 2 of them, who then died to morale and attrition. 2-3 infiltrators die from the lancer after I Transhuman. Dark Talon speeds over my whirlwind, dropping the bomb for 2, then rift cannoning it for another 3 mortals (after I smokescreened), 6 wounds left so not bracketed. Librarian casts veil on the chaplain, then perils on might of heroes, taking 3w. 

 

At this point, my opponent has split the forces and overextended.

 

Grail onto the bladeguard who advance forwards behind ruins near the centre, ready to get into the centre next turn for oath. incursors move forwards and start to ROD. Sanguard jump to 2" away from the devs and drop pod, then multicharge them, overwatch kills 2, the other 3 wipe the devs and take the pod to few wounds. Invictor moved around the rhino, takes it to 2w with it's shooting, then charges in (putting myself within 3" of the objective) and finishes it off, then consolidates into the tac squad that got out. ATB's move hard right to get within melta range of the dark talon, 6 hits (with captain and master craftsmen rerolls), 5 wounds, and it's blown out of the sky. Whirly targets the assault marines, killing 2 with suppression fire. Eliminators target the chaplain, 2 hits, 2 wounds, 1 failed save for 2w. I'm on the 3 objectives in my half, and the left hand one in the opponents half, so I get Stranglehold.

 

Opponent T2. He's only on his home and left closer objective. Assault marines, libby and chappy jump forwards. Everything else pushes up. Lancer splits fire, and does nothing, maybe 2 infiltrators after THP. ASM charge my incursors and bladeguard, libby and chaplain charge the incursors. Chappy kills 4/5 incursors, then the libby takes a wound off the last. ASM cannot attack until last...so the bladeguard go. 4 of them, being charged, in assault doctrine is 21 attacks from the unit, with a reroll and exploding 6's. I get 12 wounds through armour, wiping the asm. Invictor kills a couple more tacs. Sanguard put more wounds on the pod. 

 

My T2

Eradicators walk on. ATB's move to within melta range of the gladiator that closed on me, then blast it off the table. Gladiator explodes putting 2W on ezekiel, killing a tac marine, killing a sanguard, and an infiltrator...then killing the drop pod which doesnt explode. Erads then target the tacs behind it, killing 3 - 4 from 8 shots. The now-free sanguard charge the tacs, wiping all but the serge. Eliminators shott the chappy taking 2W off, priest then grenades him to death. Something killed the priest, maybe bladeguard pistols? Whirly hits the assault int's in my opponent's backfield. Started to ROD with the infils, and then fired with them, failing the action. 

 

At this point, my opponent has a wounded Zeke, 3 tac marines, 4 assault ints, then 5 deathwing left, and decided to call it. 

 

Might have gone  abit hard on him, but this was tourney training. We went thoguh his list afterwards and we did some optimising, and showing him how my list played. The list we came up with includes pretty much all the elements from the original list, but looks scary, and would be a challenge to fight if he can get his secondaries right!  

[Majkhel]

Nice game! What are your thoughts on the MM in the Eradicator squad? 5pts upgrade for an extra shot (actually 2 cause why not double-shoot) but with less damage compared to the heavy melta rifle.

[Xenith]

It's a no brainer for me - you say less damage, and itdoes, per shot, but the MM actually has a higher damage cap than the Heavy Melta Rifle (HMR), assuming everything hits and wounds.

 

Personally, the extra shot for 5pts is essentially a free command reroll on the wound roll for the heavy melta rifle, which will only be wounding things like knights on a 4+, allowing you to save a command reroll for any dreaded 1's on damage rolls (which you'll be doing regardless of whether it's a MM or HMR).

[Xenith]

On another note, I have a game tonight against someone else playing in the team tournament - this time using sisters, and I think they requested I go all out. I plan on using the same army as above, I don't think there was anything that was really wrong with it, maybe bar some faster scoring, but we'll see how it goes. Any tips or things to watch out for when facing sisters?

[Majkhel]

I need to try that MM. In my mind with HMR you actually rarely actually need to re-roll 1's to damage. But additional 2 shots are tasty.

 

As for Sisters... I don't have any actual experience so I can only theorise. Especially since they have quite a few nasty builds available to them. It's fair to assume they will come to you and they will come in fast. I would personally try setting myself for a T2 counter-charge. If you go second, I wouldn't expect your forward units to survive.

 

Not sure about the DC in this match-up. If you manage to first, that's great, but if you go second, I would honestly hide them among your lines. I would also go all chainswords, but I understand you are making a list to face multiple armies not just that particular one.

 

Worth to remember if you face their Celestian Sacresants - they can heroically intervene.

[Bonzi]

On another note, I have a game tonight against someone else playing in the team tournament - this time using sisters, and I think they requested I go all out. I plan on using the same army as above, I don't think there was anything that was really wrong with it, maybe bar some faster scoring, but we'll see how it goes. Any tips or things to watch out for when facing sisters?

It depends on what style of Sisters list they bring. Typical meta is likely Bloody Rose with Repentia and probably Sacresants. Watch for the amount of melta the sisters bring, they do almost all of their heavy lifting with it and they have it on cheaper and more expendable platforms than Marines do. In general sisters units will die very easily, but they will have a lot of units and counter punch very hard.

 

Make sure your key units are hidden turn one as they will melta them if they go first. If they go second watch for the Repentia units waiting to jump on anything that comes too close. With miracle dice and support the Repentia can reliably make very long charges. Also remember that Repentia have a fight on death strat so the only really safe way to deal with them is shooting.

 

Your whirlwind in particular is a great unit to take against sisters.

[Xenith]

I need to try that MM. In my mind with HMR you actually rarely actually need to re-roll 1's to damage. But additional 2 shots are tasty.

Oh yea, if the minimum 3/5 damage is enough to finish off what you're shooting, no reroll needed - however if going after full health targets I'd want to boost damage as much as possible. The 3 man unit has a max damage of 56 at long range and 72 at short, however if they're hitting on 4+ after moving on, that halves to ~28/36, then 4+ to wound something like a russ gets you 14/18 max damage. Average would be a potential 32/48 -> 16/24 after average shooting -> 8/12 after wounding T8 -> so not enough to even kill a leman russ at long range, only just enough at short. 

 

As for Sisters... I don't have any actual experience so I can only theorise. Especially since they have quite a few nasty builds available to them. It's fair to assume they will come to you and they will come in fast. I would personally try setting myself for a T2 counter-charge. If you go second, I wouldn't expect your forward units to survive.

 

Not sure about the DC in this match-up. If you manage to first, that's great, but if you go second, I would honestly hide them among your lines. I would also go all chainswords, but I understand you are making a list to face multiple armies not just that particular one.

 

Worth to remember if you face their Celestian Sacresants - they can heroically intervene.

 

Good points, thanks! 

 

 

It depends on what style of Sisters list they bring. Typical meta is likely Bloody Rose with Repentia and probably Sacresants. Watch for the amount of melta the sisters bring, they do almost all of their heavy lifting with it and they have it on cheaper and more expendable platforms than Marines do. In general sisters units will die very easily, but they will have a lot of units and counter punch very hard.

 

Make sure your key units are hidden turn one as they will melta them if they go first. If they go second watch for the Repentia units waiting to jump on anything that comes too close. With miracle dice and support the Repentia can reliably make very long charges. Also remember that Repentia have a fight on death strat so the only really safe way to deal with them is shooting.

 

Your whirlwind in particular is a great unit to take against sisters.

 

 

I know my opponent played them in 3rd, and I think is trying to update the army to the newer rules - there'll definitely be repentia, and I assume they'll have got some sacresancts, being the new flavour, probably mortifiers/penitent engines also? I think my main play will be for objectives, then use my assault elements as counter charge. Main concern is potential exorcists firing without LOS, but I guess that will be quite CP intensive? My hope would be that he leaves them out of cover so they have LOS to my stuff, then I can bring the Eradicators in to kill them off. 

[Karhedron]

It's a no brainer for me - you say less damage, and itdoes, per shot, but the MM actually has a higher damage cap than the Heavy Melta Rifle (HMR), assuming everything hits and wounds.

 

Personally, the extra shot for 5pts is essentially a free command reroll on the wound roll for the heavy melta rifle, which will only be wounding things like knights on a 4+, allowing you to save a command reroll for any dreaded 1's on damage rolls (which you'll be doing regardless of whether it's a MM or HMR).

I find the same thing, I crunched the numbers when Eradicators came out and MMs do significantly more wounds per point than both MRs and HMRs so if you are tight for points, prioritise the multimelta.

 

Interestingly, on the move, HMRs do roughly the same number of wounds per point as MRs. It is only when they are stationary (or you have some means to ignore the -1 to-Hit) that they pull ahead.

 

Space Wolves have access to Keen Senses which ignores the -1 to-Hit. I am toying with getting a squad of 6 Eradicators with 2 MMs and regular MRs. Then at deployment I combat squad them so I get 1 squad with 2 MMs that can ignore the penalty and one squad that is not effect because it is Assault and can Advance and fire if necessary.

 

Probably slight OT for BAs as we don't have a similar way of ignoring to-Hit penalties that I can think of.

[Xenith]

 

Space Wolves have access to Keen Senses which ignores the -1 to-Hit. I am toying with getting a squad of 6 Eradicators with 2 MMs and regular MRs. Then at deployment I combat squad them so I get 1 squad with 2 MMs that can ignore the penalty and one squad that is not effect because it is Assault and can Advance and fire if necessary.

 

Probably slight OT for BAs as we don't have a similar way of ignoring to-Hit penalties that I can think of.

 

 

Bear in mind that Single Minded Annihilation, or whatever it's called, cannot be used if you advance, so advancing Eradicators only get one shot each which is what kills the assault version for me. 

 

BA also have access to 'Steady Advance' to count as stationary for 2CP, heavy investment, but its for when something absolutely must die. As BA we can also get a captain over to them fast for reroll 1's. Phobos LT might do some good also?

[Bonzi]

 

 

I need to try that MM. In my mind with HMR you actually rarely actually need to re-roll 1's to damage. But additional 2 shots are tasty.

Oh yea, if the minimum 3/5 damage is enough to finish off what you're shooting, no reroll needed - however if going after full health targets I'd want to boost damage as much as possible. The 3 man unit has a max damage of 56 at long range and 72 at short, however if they're hitting on 4+ after moving on, that halves to ~28/36, then 4+ to wound something like a russ gets you 14/18 max damage. Average would be a potential 32/48 -> 16/24 after average shooting -> 8/12 after wounding T8 -> so not enough to even kill a leman russ at long range, only just enough at short.

 

As for Sisters... I don't have any actual experience so I can only theorise. Especially since they have quite a few nasty builds available to them. It's fair to assume they will come to you and they will come in fast. I would personally try setting myself for a T2 counter-charge. If you go second, I wouldn't expect your forward units to survive.

 

Not sure about the DC in this match-up. If you manage to first, that's great, but if you go second, I would honestly hide them among your lines. I would also go all chainswords, but I understand you are making a list to face multiple armies not just that particular one.

 

Worth to remember if you face their Celestian Sacresants - they can heroically intervene.

Good points, thanks!

It depends on what style of Sisters list they bring. Typical meta is likely Bloody Rose with Repentia and probably Sacresants. Watch for the amount of melta the sisters bring, they do almost all of their heavy lifting with it and they have it on cheaper and more expendable platforms than Marines do. In general sisters units will die very easily, but they will have a lot of units and counter punch very hard.

 

Make sure your key units are hidden turn one as they will melta them if they go first. If they go second watch for the Repentia units waiting to jump on anything that comes too close. With miracle dice and support the Repentia can reliably make very long charges. Also remember that Repentia have a fight on death strat so the only really safe way to deal with them is shooting.

 

Your whirlwind in particular is a great unit to take against sisters.

 

I know my opponent played them in 3rd, and I think is trying to update the army to the newer rules - there'll definitely be repentia, and I assume they'll have got some sacresancts, being the new flavour, probably mortifiers/penitent engines also? I think my main play will be for objectives, then use my assault elements as counter charge. Main concern is potential exorcists firing without LOS, but I guess that will be quite CP intensive? My hope would be that he leaves them out of cover so they have LOS to my stuff, then I can bring the Eradicators in to kill them off.

If he's running current meta then he's leaving the exorcist at home as they are currently over costed and the indirect fire strat is crazy expensive. If he brings the exorcist I think you could outflank a unit of Eradicators and be fine.

[Xenith]

The list my opponent brought was:

 

Ebon Chalice (+1 to charge and advance; 6's to wound are ap-1)

 

Celestine

Canoness with reduce damage to 1, turn off invulnerables

 

5x5 Battle Sisters with heavy flamer+ flamer

 

Dogmata with reroll everything litany

3 Mortifiers w/ Heavy bolters

9 repentia+ superior in Rhino

 

~8 Seraphim with 4x hand flamers

10 Zephyrim

10 Dominions with 4x storm bolters in Rhino.

 

5x Retributors with 4x MM's

 

Opponent was getting to grips with the army and asked to play primaries only, unsure if that was an advantage to anyone. I'll do a longer write up later, but oh my, this was maybe my toughest game of 9th ed yet. Sisters are absolutely ridiculous and have so much synergy and power in their units it's unreal. Even the base sister units with their souped up flamers tore chunks out of my marines, and that's before we even get to all the flame-mortals nonsense, among other ways of throwing out mortals. My BA felt really outclassed, however going by primaries alone, I won 35 (hold more, hold 2, painted) to my opponents 20 (hold 2, hold 2). A really tough, but good game, I was exhausted by the end, despite only making it to turn 3.

 

I definitely misplayed some aspects of my list - namely the bike captain who babysat the attack bikes all game and should have been getting stuck in - he was a >100pt paperweight in the end, and essentially put me at a point defecit by not using him. 

[Bonzi]

Sounds like a good game. Ebon Chalice has been popping up a lot in mixed detachment lists. They have a great warlord trait and their mortal wound flamer strat is pretty clutch as well.

 

Skipping secondaries does hurt sisters a fair bit since one of their strength is cheap units letting them have good board control and still have spare units to chase secondaries and perform actions. In a straight slug fest over primary objectives I would give an edge to blood Angels for their speed and durability, but when you add in secondaries I think the edge swings strongly to the sisters favor. But if your friend is just getting into sisters then a streamlined game is definitely for the best. The sisters dex is great and has a number of viable play styles.