Making Noise Marines Scream

[AtlasDM]

Pink looks good when it's finished but some of my models were sprayed black and it took so many coats to get a good color. I ended up painting a base coat of some flesh (dwarf maybe?) and then pink over that before I finally bought some white spray.

Here's a picture of my Chaos Lord (Lady?) I used a Daemonette head and a claw from a Possessed for a counts-as lightning claw.
 

[Bonzi]

That guy looks great!  Definitely like the idea of a claw as lighting claw.  Yes, as Tenebris said and you have discovered, the secret to painting any light colored army is a white base coat.  Outside of black and other dark colors I find it is almost always better to basecoat white as it makes the models pop more.  Have you considered using a shading wash on the power armor?  There is a Druchi violet that is great for adding a purple hue or a crimson shade which will keep more of a true pink and will bring out a lot of model detail without much work.

[AtlasDM]

Thanks for the support. I used a wash on some of my models and I didn't really like the look of it. The armor went from pink to "berry" colored. I'm not sure why but it looked terrible. Like I said, pink has been horrible for me and I was discouraged after painting only one squad and my Chaos Lord. Gray is easy, my Red Scorpions looked pretty damn good, but pink not so much. Once I get settled in to this semester of school I'll start painting again and create a WIP thread and add it to my sig.

[Forté]

Try targeting the wash to where the shadows are and gaps in the armour plates. Have a look over all the GW WD tutorials for Marines. It's a rare thing for them to wash the whole area these days.

 

Something else to think about primer wise is this. Spray black as normal. Then dust with white or grey at a 45° angle from above (all round). Works like zenithal highlights and the black still shows in the areas which you will want darker which gives you a good idea of where to shade. And if you thin your paints it still shows a bit through the base coats as you build them up. Take a look at the Massive Voodoo site and you'll see what I mean.

 

http://massivevoodoo.blogspot.co.uk/2009/11/tutorial-kongs-priming-thoughts.html?m=1

[AtlasDM]

Maybe I'm just not seeing it anywhere, but do you normally Deep Strike your daemonettes or deploy them normally? I can see DS being helpful, but at the same time, if you get bad rolls your hammer is off the board for too much of the game to be of any use.

[Forté]

I thought they had to be deployed as they are an allied detachment.

[Disciple of Fulgrim]

In previous threads Bonzi's mentioned a few times that just running his daemonettes up the board has worked for him, thanks to Fleet and the extra 3" they get.  While I haven't tried this yet (still painting up my 'nettes) this makes sense to me - besides avoiding problems with reserve rolls and scatter, one of the 'nettes secondary roles is (as I understand it) to act as a bit of a fire magnet, thus allowing your NM BMs to pound away at your enemy relatively unmolested.  (Though I have thought about giving my 'nettes an icon, so they're able to vector in a deep striking Soul Grinder, or maybe also doing up an icon bearing Seeker unit, who can act as pathfinders for my 'nettes - but that all goes out the window if Allied Detachments can't be used as reserves.  Did I miss that in the rules somewhere, or was it in some errata I missed?) 

[Disciple of Fulgrim]

Now here's a thought - while flipping through the rules just now, it occurred to me that you could make the Daemons your Primary Detachment.  While that means the Herald would have to be your Warlord, it also opens up using the Warp Storm Table; while rather random, I have read that many Daemon players generally find this table to be more useful than not.  Kind of debateable from a fluff perspective (would a Chaos Lord "outrank" one of Slaanesh's Heralds?) but I like having this option - I really must finish my 'nettes (and Herald) so I can try this out for myself!

[Forté]

I may well be wrong though thinking about it.

[AtlasDM]

Random question, not sure why I thought of this now, but how problematic are blast masters as far as scatter? How effective is the weapon in terms of actually hitting?

[Bonzi]

Maybe I'm just not seeing it anywhere, but do you normally Deep Strike your daemonettes or deploy them normally? I can see DS being helpful, but at the same time, if you get bad rolls your hammer is off the board for too much of the game to be of any use.

 

I always run them.  Nettes are a frail assault unit whose major weakness is templates and massed fire.  The best any DSing unit can do is a turn 3 charge if you get them in on the second turn.  Unless you are playing Hammer and Anvil deployment a unit of Nettes starting on the board can see a charge on turn two.  Both units are likely to weather one turn of fire, but one of them will do it bunched up from a DS (even if you run after the DS, a blob of 20 only spreads so thin on a d6+3).

 

It is a rare game where my Nettes are not in CC on turn 2, and if they are not I at least have the flexibility to make better use of cover than I could with DSing.  I think for a frail unit like Nettes DSing is situational and running is the default.

 

Now here's a thought - while flipping through the rules just now, it occurred to me that you could make the Daemons your Primary Detachment.  While that means the Herald would have to be your Warlord, it also opens up using the Warp Storm Table; while rather random, I have read that many Daemon players generally find this table to be more useful than not.  Kind of debateable from a fluff perspective (would a Chaos Lord "outrank" one of Slaanesh's Heralds?) but I like having this option - I really must finish my 'nettes (and Herald) so I can try this out for myself!

 

I have played with the idea of Daemons as primary in low points, but in games above 1.5k it limits my MSU NM squads to 2 max and my Obliterator squads to 1.

 

Random question, not sure why I thought of this now, but how problematic are blast masters as far as scatter? How effective is the weapon in terms of actually hitting?

 

It will happen when you least want it to but it is a minor problem on the whole.  Average scatter is in the 4 to 7" range, which once you take out the BS 4 becomes 0 to 3" of scatter.  When you are shooting into large units or at vehicles it's almost impossible to miss.  When you are shooting at a lone model things get more dicey.

[Bowlzee]

Sadly the Rules for the Lord state: 

 

 

In a Primary Detachment including a Chaos Lord with the mark of Slaanesh , Noise Marines are troops choices instead of elites.

 

Therefore if Daemons were your primary, you would only be able to field 1 Noise Marine Unit, and have to make room for some cultists.

 

While have Daemons as you're secondary you can still take 2 Daemonette squads, Seekers, and a Soul Grinder... Which is more than enough.

[Disciple of Fulgrim]

Dang, you are correct Sir - forgot the Master of Traitors rule specifies this.  So much for that "bright idea" ...

[Wanderingblade]

So I'd been thinking of converting to Chaos, was planning on proxying my loyalists for a game or two to see how it rolled, went looking for some tactical advice and I found this and I think I might be in love...

 

Bonzi, I want to ask if you've ever considered Vindicators? You seem to have been considering a number of AP2 options in previous posts, which obviously the Vindicator brings, and it also brings another attention-grabbing unit and another AV13 hull to park alongside the Soul Grinder. Seems like it might be a decent alternative to more Obliterators in a large game. Speaking of Obliterators, just how vital at they to this sort of list?

[Bonzi]

So I'd been thinking of converting to Chaos, was planning on proxying my loyalists for a game or two to see how it rolled, went looking for some tactical advice and I found this and I think I might be in love...

 

Bonzi, I want to ask if you've ever considered Vindicators? You seem to have been considering a number of AP2 options in previous posts, which obviously the Vindicator brings, and it also brings another attention-grabbing unit and another AV13 hull to park alongside the Soul Grinder. Seems like it might be a decent alternative to more Obliterators in a large game. Speaking of Obliterators, just how vital at they to this sort of list?

 

I have a huge soft spot for vindicators even though I never fit them in my lists.  The reason I don't for my Daemons is that half of my army is so fast that by turn 2 I would have units in the 'Danger Close' territory for shooting the Vindis.  I think Vindis have a much more solid place in an unallied NM list that focused entirely on shooting and then advancing on cleared or reduced objectives in the later turns of the game.  

 

Something like:

 

Lord: mark of slan, burning brand, bike

 

5 NM: blastmaster

5 NM: blastmaster

5 NM: blastmaster

6-8 NM: doom siren (maybe extra ccws)

-Rhino: havok launcher

6-8 NM: doom siren (maybe extra ccws)

-Rhino: havok launcher

 

5 Bikers: x2 melta, meltabomb

 

Vindi

Vindi

x3 Obliterator: mark of nurgle

 

That should be in the ballpark of 1500-1600ish off the top of my head.

 

As to Obliterators being vital...they are to my NM/Daemons list as they are my main source of anti-tank at range and their plasma cannons pair nicely with blastmasters for early game ap 2-3 saturation.  I think you need some source of lascannons/multimeltas in your army to open up transports so assault units (like Nettes who have no shooting of their own) can charge the contents rather than the container.  You could replace them with Havoks with Lascannons or a Predator as you like.  Vindi's make a dandy mess of parking lot style opponents but you will need to be able to suppress your opponents anti-tank which means busting tanks at long range (havocks/oblits/preds) and shredding devastator style squads (blastmasters).

[AtlasDM]

I've been considering chaos vindicators for my list as well. I had planned on modeling the cannon to resemble a Dirge Caster so it would maintain the theme. I was also thinking about giving an allied Sould Grinder a Dirge Caster style weapon that counts as a Phlegm Bombardment.

Also, since we've been talking about Noise Marines backed up by Daemonettes, a question popped in to my head: has anyone considered replacing the Herald with a Demon Prince or other such unit to basically run in front of the Daemonettes and act as a distraction to draw fire away from them? Daemonettes aren't the most resilient unit and they could easily be shot off the board, but perhaps a monsterous creature or some other large model would be able to distract shooting units while the Daemonettes close in.

That would be the only reason (other than a really cool model) that I would consider using a Demons Prince in this army. It might also be a good use for the recently mentioned vindicators. Vindicators scare the crap out of your opponent and could easily draw a turn or two of fire away from the Daemonettes (or the whole army depending on your opponent).

[Bonzi]

I've been considering chaos vindicators for my list as well. I had planned on modeling the cannon to resemble a Dirge Caster so it would maintain the theme. I was also thinking about giving an allied Sould Grinder a Dirge Caster style weapon that counts as a Phlegm Bombardment.

 

Also, since we've been talking about Noise Marines backed up by Daemonettes, a question popped in to my head: has anyone considered replacing the Herald with a Demon Prince or other such unit to basically run in front of the Daemonettes and act as a distraction to draw fire away from them? Daemonettes aren't the most resilient unit and they could easily be shot off the board, but perhaps a monsterous creature or some other large model would be able to distract shooting units while the Daemonettes close in.

 

That would be the only reason (other than a really cool model) that I would consider using a Demons Prince in this army. It might also be a good use for the recently mentioned vindicators. Vindicators scare the crap out of your opponent and could easily draw a turn or two of fire away from the Daemonettes (or the whole army depending on your opponent).

 

I go with the Herald because they are cheap and the Locus of B. makes the Nette squad brutal in close combat.  A Daemon Prince or Greater Daemon is an extremely expensive investment to protect Nettes (who are less effective without the Herald) from shooting.  If you are taking a DP or GD it should be as part of a greater strategy of list building such as the 'Monster Mash' style chaos lists which rely on multiple tough monstrous creatures to overwhelm the enemy (similar to Nidzilla builds).  Good Nette screens would be things like Fiends or Chaos Bikers. 

 

In the end, my experience on the best ways to protect Nettes from shooting are: 1) More Nettes.  Big squads or multiple squads is the way to go.  2).  Target saturation.  Bikers and Soul Grinders bearing down on the enemy draw a lot of fire away from the frail Nettes.  3).  Using superior mobility.  Limiting LoS to multiple enemy dakka units at any one time is important.  4).  Blastmaster suppression fire.  Tearing up anti-infantry threats or pinning them allows your Nettes to close in with the elite units that are their ideal target.

 

Other options would be Rhino, Raptor, Fiend, Flesh Hound or Fury screens.

[Bonzi]

Ok, I liked that off the cuff Vindi list enough that I went back and priced it out.  Turns out I was pretty close and the list looks very fun though I don't have enough Rhino chaises to proxy it.

 

1,500pt List:  'I Own a Full Set of Templates and Use Them ALL'

 

 

Lord: brand, bike, lighting claw, mark of slan

 

5 Noise Marines: blastmaster

5 Noise Marines: blastmaster

5 Noise Marines: blastmaster

6 Noise Marines: doom siren, meltabomb

-Rhino: havok launcher

6 Noise Marines: doom siren, meltabomb

-Rhino: havok launcher

 

5 Bikers: x2 meltaguns, power ax, meltabomb

 

Vindicator: combibolter

Vindicator: combibolter

x3 Obliterators: mark of nurgle

 

A list built around spending the first half of the game pummeling the foes from afar and then sweeping the remains off of objectives in the second half.  The list is weak to monstrous creatures and would get blindsided by flyer spam but I think it would be great fun no matter what.  Very tempting to try if I can score to more Rhino hulls to convert to Vindi's.

 

 

 

[Wanderingblade]

I have to say, I generally find that either my Vindicators don't make turn 2, or they force my enemy to disperse enough that I'm not firing danger close, but I can see your point.

 

And yup, fully see the need for Lascannons,  was mainly curious as to whether you needed it to be Obliterators to protect the gunline as well with their powerfists.

 

Hopefully I'll get to test some of this out soon - I do also like the look of the KoS, but can't really see getting the amount of monsters to make that non-risky and the rest of the list in...

[AtlasDM]

Has anyone used Noise Marines in Kill Team or Zone Mortalis and found them viable? Or Chaos Space Marines in general? I just can't see them being competitive against Sternguard and the like. It seems to me that Chosen would be better suited but they suffer from high cost.

[hushrong]

Has anyone used Noise Marines in Kill Team or Zone Mortalis and found them viable? Or Chaos Space Marines in general? I just can't see them being competitive against Sternguard and the like. It seems to me that Chosen would be better suited but they suffer from high cost.

I've used them in kill team and I think they are a decent unit. I just used a fluffy build and paid the price on the table. I would play them more but I moved on to raptors, but I would love to share some notes.

 

-Blastmaster with relentless or master crafted is awesome but you have a marine who is nearly 50 points painting himself up as a target priority. In my games he was killed 2nd turn. Major punch below the belt.

 

-They are all fearless, if their buddies die off and they have to take a break test they just shrug their shoulders and carry on. No retreating when they're still so much havoc to relish in.

 

-the noise champ can get some nice upgrades like doom siren and combi-weapons. So he can be a great killer. However, he's your only noise marine who can get close to having a melta/plasma/Flamer weapon and they are only one-shot.

 

-higher initiative in battle means you swing first more often than not, so on a charge a guy with instant death or flesh bane is a murder in ccw (getting extra CCW is a good buy if you got the points)

 

-Rhinos make a great screen for troop movements and extra bolter shots never hurt (except the enemies they hit)

 

The only thing I have yet to try are sonic blasters. They are a weapon I often overlook.

[AtlasDM]

Funny you mentioned switching to Raptors, I've been preparing to convert my loyalist marines to Raptors for a couple weeks now. Anyway, thanks for sharing your observations. I'll post my Kill Team experiences as they come along.

[Archimondus]

Bonzi,

 

If you were to make a Noise Marine list for competitive play/tourneys at 1850 or 2000 pts what do you think your army would look like?  Would you incorporate some of the units you shy away from like the Hell Turkey or Demon Prince?  How many Obliterators do you think you would do: 3 groups of 2, maxed out at 3 groups of 3, or somewhere imbetween?  Would you bring an ADL with Quad Gun?

 

I am new to the hobby and just getting started, and trying to get a sense of how to expand my army and flesh out what models I have.

 

Also your thread has been inspiring and I am really looking forward to trying this playstyle!

[The Nephilim]

I love this thread. I wish there was more sonic blaster love. In my personal opinion, they're way better than bolters.

[Forté]

I love this thread. I wish there was more sonic blaster love. In my personal opinion, they're way better than bolters.

But very expensive too.