Book 2: Massacre - any more info?

[TheForgottenAngel]

Nothing is ever set in stone. We ALL dreamed of the horus heresy being a game along with miniatures and look at it now! The xenos players will demand something and I'm sure forge world will oblige.

[depthcharge12]

Nothing is ever set in stone. We ALL dreamed of the horus heresy being a game along with miniatures and look at it now! The xenos players will demand something and I'm sure forge world will oblige.

 

Considering how big a success this has been and judging by the HH staff driving to work in solid gold chariots pulled by indentured buyers...then yes im sure they will :P

[depthcharge12]

I didn't catch it until I watched this guys review on Massacre:

 

 

 

But the contemptors get the Mortis pattern with the Helical targeting array again!!!

[Scribe]

Yes, I too watched that video, and its awesome.

[Dumah]

Ok, so I've been going over all this new information and I've always had a thing for Heresy era Death Guard so naturally the Grave Warden info caught my interest. Conceptually, I love the whole toxic/chemical nature of the weaponry but I've been scratching my head about one thing in particular: what's so special about the Toxin rule (forcing a toughness test instead of the usual to-wound formula)?

 

Unless there's something that's been left out or I just missed the boat, the enemy player still gets to make an armor save after failing a toughness test, correct? And considering that the enemy will undoubtedly be T4 or greater, wouldn't it be less likely to create wounds than poison or a weapon with the bog standard 4 strength? I'm sure I must be missing something...

[hisdudeness]

Depends on the wording of the Toxin rule on if they get a save of not.  But if they do then I agree, fluffy but not too deadly.

[Anvilarium]

By specifying 'Word Bearer allies', I assume you mean those in the Signus book will get models.

 

Not as far as I'm aware. They general concensus was that GW already make decent enough models to represent Daemons.

[Sevatar]

Just wondering, since I am getting the book in a week or two, what was the Legion/Fleet strength of the Iron Hands pre/post the Drop Site Massacre?

 

Thanks.

[DuskRaider]

I was concerned the Grave Wardens were a bit underpowered as well, but it seems their going to be best in larger numbers to saturate enemies with Toughness saves and Chemical Flamers. Also remember, you can give them a Land Raider or Spartan as a Dedicated Transport, so you'll still have anti-armor (especially with the Spartan).

[Dumah]

I was concerned the Grave Wardens were a bit underpowered as well, but it seems their going to be best in larger numbers to saturate enemies with Toughness saves and Chemical Flamers. Also remember, you can give them a Land Raider or Spartan as a Dedicated Transport, so you'll still have anti-armor (especially with the Spartan).

 

True. And synergistically speaking, it occurs to me that Rad Grenades + Toxin rule could be quite nasty. It's almost as if it were designed that way... Clever FW!

[Grimtalos]

Any new fluff on the Sons of Horus and their role during the Massacre ?

[AfroCampbell]

 

I was concerned the Grave Wardens were a bit underpowered as well, but it seems their going to be best in larger numbers to saturate enemies with Toughness saves and Chemical Flamers. Also remember, you can give them a Land Raider or Spartan as a Dedicated Transport, so you'll still have anti-armor (especially with the Spartan).

 

True. And synergistically speaking, it occurs to me that Rad Grenades + Toxin rule could be quite nasty. It's almost as if it were designed that way... Clever FW!

Problem is that will never happen - rad grenades only reduce toughness by one in assault, which means that if they are used you can't shoot at that unit cos they will be in assault :( 

and the rad grenade launchers on destroyers only reduce toughness by one when a wound is taken so they don't work either :( grrr

[Dumah]

Well shoot. There goes my cautious optimism. What then is the point of forcing Toughness tests if it doesn't ignore armor saves? Toxin Grenades seem pointless to me...

[DuskRaider]

Well wouldn't they also get Shred as per the Legion rules? At least with the Flamers... The Toxin is 4+, which means on Marines you're re-rolling any fails. With so many templates, I still forsee a lot of dead Astartes.

[Dumah]

I didn't realize Toxin counted as poison since it wasn't stated explicitly (anywhere I've seen at least). That does make it sound a bit better.

[DuskRaider]

I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. I may just be thinking about the Flamers.

[Russ Brother 92]

Re: Chem-Munitions - pg 262 of Betrayal: Flame weapons taken as part of a DG force may be upgraded to special issue Chem-Munitions for their flame weapons (flamers, hand flamers, heavy flamers, combi-flamers and flamestorm cannons) at no additional cost. Upgraded weapons gain both the Shred and Gets Hot! USRs - I've no doubt that the Grave Wardens will have this :p

[Dumah]

I'm aware Grave Wardens have access to Chem-Munitions. That still doesn't answer for the underwhelming nature of their Toxin-based weaponry; it seems to be a fluffy gimmick with no real benefit.

[Russ Brother 92]

I still think that having Shred on flamer wielding terminators is pretty good - especially when they're 2 wound, 2+/4++ terminators who move through cover...

[Russ Brother 92]

Double Post

[Dumah]

I still think that having Shred on flamer wielding terminators is pretty good - especially when they're 2 wound, 2+/4++ terminators who move through cover...

 

The only problem is that the flamers are not their main armament; only 1 in every 5 get the option, leaving the rest with the lackluster grenade launchers.

[AfroCampbell]

 

I still think that having Shred on flamer wielding terminators is pretty good - especially when they're 2 wound, 2+/4++ terminators who move through cover...

 

The only problem is that the flamers are not their main armament; only 1 in every 5 get the option, leaving the rest with the lackluster grenade launchers.

The grenade launcher isnt actually bad. it's not fantastic, but better than bolters by a long shot. if u think that really its 5 blast templates per 5 men, wounding on 4+ for marines you are still gonna rake in the kills. even if they save half, on average you get 3 marines per blast template ish, so lets round down a little and say 12 hits, 6 wounds, 2 kills per 5 men shooting. Then the enemy has to contend with 2+/4++ with move through cover. if they assault they get wounds themselves from toxin rules. add a Primus Medicae/ Librarian with Telekinesis in there and they are VERY tough to kill. Or add Crysus Morturg and get Endurance + Infiltrate for the entire squad. (although I am gonna save this trick for the Deathshroud)

[DuskRaider]

There's a reason why Missile Launchers have Frag and Krak ammunition. Krak isn't any worse just because it's weaker. It has a blast template, which actually hits more models. The same with these Grenade Launchers. They may not hit like a mack truck on a single Marine, but they cover multiple targets in one hit. A group of ten will do massive damage on infantry, and the more you add the better it gets. Remember that with the Rite of War, they actually become Troops. Run a line of them, drop massed templates, watch all troops wither. They have their Chem Flamers, their Grenades, Power / Chainfists... I don't know, they seem pretty awesome to me.

[Sothalor]

Just watched that preview video.

 

Leaving aside the rules/mechanics and all that, the book is gorgeous. Those pencil sketches are phenomenal.

 

So excited.

[Dumah]

@Afro and Dusk: Good points all around. Forest for the trees and all that... I recognize my failing and will be sure to correct it!