[HH1.0] Night Lords Tactics

[helterskelter]

 

 

So what so you people think is the best way to run Curze?

I plan on putting him into a DAV 10-man Assault Squad with a Jump Apothecary. Should be suitably killy without being a major point sink.

I'd say 900 odd points is a reasonable sink :p

 

Either way the consensus is wrap him in assault marines or cheap raptor load out and go nuts. Ideally going 2nd for potential t1 charging with good deployment/cover

[em_en_oh_pee]

 

 

So what so you people think is the best way to run Curze?

I plan on putting him into a DAV 10-man Assault Squad with a Jump Apothecary. Should be suitably killy without being a major point sink.

I'd say 900 odd points is a reasonable sink

 

Either way the consensus is wrap him in assault marines or cheap raptor load out and go nuts. Ideally going 2nd for potential t1 charging with good deployment/cover

 

 

Actually, it clocks in at a meager 715pt total (Curze, 10 Assault Marines w/ 2x Axes, Fist & Artificer, Jump Pack Apothecary). 

 

That is cheap, really, for what you get. All the killing power and it is scoring, mobile, and reasonably durable (for what they are). 

[Withershadow]

You forgot shields for those assault marines!

[helterskelter]

Apologies, For some reason I thought you were Podding them :s and even then my guesstimate is a little on the heavy side. Oh well :p 715 isn't all that bad

[em_en_oh_pee]

You forgot shields for those assault marines!

 

Naw, that is a lot of points. They get a 5+ FNP from the Apoth on top of their 3+. Good enough!

 

Apologies, For some reason I thought you were Podding them :s and even then my guesstimate is a little on the heavy side. Oh well 715 isn't all that bad

 

Podding Assault Marines. That would catch everyone off guard! :D

[helterskelter]

You can do it with horror cult and kharybdis en masse if you reeeeeeaaallly wanted. Though that's just outright expensive

[Angmarred]

I'm not sure I understand the appeal of the DAV. Sure your AM drop turn 1 but with no way to get a vox upfield you will need to be pretty conservative with your drop locations so it won't be so much better than just a turn 1 move. I guess it protects against a turn of fire if you go second but is that worth the significant restrictions? I'd love to be wrong because I like it thematically so please show me what I'm missing.

[helterskelter]

If you're taking Curze you've first turn guaranteed night fight, so that's a free cover save in the open on t1 unless you're facing typhon and other such scary weapons.

 

And as for not having an upfield nuncio there's 2 ways you can sort this. Damocles rhino and vigilator scouting anything that can take a nuncio

[em_en_oh_pee]

I'm not sure I understand the appeal of the DAV. Sure your AM drop turn 1 but with no way to get a vox upfield you will need to be pretty conservative with your drop locations so it won't be so much better than just a turn 1 move. I guess it protects against a turn of fire if you go second but is that worth the significant restrictions? I'd love to be wrong because I like it thematically so please show me what I'm missing.

 

Here is a copy/paste of my post over on 30k Heresy forums:

 

 

 

HQ:

Praetor

Paragon Blade, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo, Jump Pack, Trophies

[190]

 

Primus Medicae

Jetbike, Refractor Field, Trophies

[155]

 

Elites:

(3) Apothecarion Detachment

Jump Packs, 2x Swords

[200]

 

Troops:

(15) Assault Squad (Praetor, Apoth w/ Sword)

3x Power Axe, Power Fist & Artificer Armor

[295]

 

(15) Assault Squad (Apoth w/ Sword)

3x Power Axe, Power Fist & Artificer Armor

[295]

 

(10) Assault Squad (Apoth, Curze)

2x Power Axe, Power Fist & Artificer Armor

[220]

 

Fast Attack:

Xiphon

[205]

 

Primaris-Lightining

4x Kraken, BSC, GTA

[230]

 

(3) Javelins

CML, Multimelta

[195]

 

Heavy:

(5) Sky Slayer Squadron (PM)

Plasma Cannons

[330]

 

Fire Raptor

Reaper, AC, Hellstrikes

[250]

 

Lord of War:

Konrad Curze

[435]

[3000]

 

Thanks, Tomalock! You made me realize that the DAV RoW with the Night Lords looked fun as hell to play! Though not as heavy leaning on the NL strengths as a Terror Assault list (with its Night Fighting schtick), this one seems to really double down heavy on the Talent for Murder end of the Legion rules (all the bulky models!). Plus, DAV gives so many amazing perks. The 12" bubble on my Assault Squads that force Snap Shots is going to give people headaches. The 2nd game turn H&R is just gravy. The big perk is of course having all my Assault Squads land on T1 without a roll. That is nasty! 

 

So, general idea here is that Curze goes with the 10-man squad as mostly ablative wounds and a bit of AP2 lovin' with a dash of 5+ FNP thrown in. This squad should eat up infantry. The Praetor rides down with another squad and a sword-toting Apothecary. They will get the boosted Fear from Curze, thanks to the Trophies. So that squad should do rather well slicing up infantry as well. The other squad is less exciting, but still capable. 44 Jump Pack Infantry and their Primarch! Seems solid enough for scoring units that serve as my primary anti-infantry units. I think the use of Fear will be handy if it goes through, helping my melee units hit and not get hit as much (3+ to-hit and 5+ on return hits). On top of this, the Talent for Murder rule should trigger most of the time, thanks to the Assault Squads being Bulky, so that means a 2+ to-hit and 3+ to-wound (against T4 with basic CCWs). That should really cause some hurt!

 

The "anchor" unit (so I don't auto-lose) is a rump Sky Slayer squadron with a Primus Medicae (because no one rolls Gets Hot! 1's like I do). Five Plasma Blasts should eat TEQ for breakfast, lunch and maybe dinner. And Trophies, because why not? Again, trying to reduce incoming hits and increase damage output. 

 

The Xiphon is my dogfighter. It ideally will come in and start knocking out enemy flyers. It sure is kitted for that purpose and since I can't take land-based AA options, this is about as good as it gets. The forced re-roll on Jink/Cover saves on a S8 AP2 Heavy 2 is nice - plus, d3 chances on the damage chart is really nice! The Fire Raptor is a multi-role unit that can pop armor with the Hellstrikes and then start hitting infantry with the guns (or do it all at once, with its Machine Spirit and independent turrets). The Javs are throwing six S8 missiles and three S8 Melta shots, so they can tackle armor or toss down six S4 Blasts onto infantry to try for volume-based wounds. The Primaris is the Flare Shield killer - Spartans, AdMech Knights, Malcadors, etc. It will kill a tank with that first volley. S8 Armorbane Tank Hunter at BS5 is seriously no joke! http://heresy30k.invisionzone.com/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.png

 

So that is my overall strategy/concept. I am really enamored with the concept, the fluff, and the paint scheme (looks like a challenge!). 

 

 

That should thoroughly outline why the DAV list will be something pretty gross. Also, I forgot to mention From the Shadows in that - which combines with Curze's Night Fighting perk to be a 4+. So barring really awful mishaps and/or scatters, the list looks rather unique and decently competitive. That was what I really wanted - something outside of the mold that could still hold its own against the nastier stuff out there. And that list I have like 5+ tweaks on for testing once I get it built - swapping from Slayers to Hunters, dropping the PM, going for a Dreadclaw of Atramentar, etc etc. OPTIONS! 

 

Anyhow, that help some?

[em_en_oh_pee]

If you're taking Curze you've first turn guaranteed night fight, so that's a free cover save in the open on t1 unless you're facing typhon and other such scary weapons.

 

And as for not having an upfield nuncio there's 2 ways you can sort this. Damocles rhino and vigilator scouting anything that can take a nuncio

 

Can't take the Damocles. Vigilator will need to Deep Strike or be in a Flyer transport - so he won't help either. Really, I think this was intentional to give the list some risk and not be a no-brainer.

 

Also, unless they really bubble wrap that Typhon, if you land within 12" with one squad, that big scary gun isn't firing next turn. Gives you the much needed turn to get your Primaris on the table, depending on turn structure. 

 

EDIT:

Just re-read it and you know what, the unit only has to be ABLE to deploy via Deep Strike - they aren't required to. You could kit a Vigilator with a Jump Pack, but I am not sure what squad you would be able to put him with that has a Nuncio-Vox option anyhow, unless you tossed a MoS, FL or SB in there too, depending on your tastes. 

Edited January 23, 2017 by em_en_oh_pee

[Lord Asvaldir]

I didn't realize you couldn't take leviathans/contemptors in DDPs in DAV, that blows a whole through my list idea for DAV. 

 

@em_en_oh_pee: I do think your list is very solid though, that many assault marines all benefiting from talent for murder and better chances to fail fear tests are pretty solid, and I think between the fliers, speeders and jetbikes you have enough anti tank. Only thing I'd chance is drop the preator, don't think you need him with Curze. Chaplain would be more useful for big assault squads. Now if only GW made some MKIV plastic assault marines..

 

I do however still think typhoons are a problem for the list. Sure, you can drop within twelve but unless your opponent has his typhoon with its back to a board corner, it's just gonna move twelve inches back and open fire. Just gotta hope that lighting comes in turn two to finish off the typhoon. 

[Black_out]

Hey everyone! So the local gaming club is talking about starting some sort of HH based campaign, and already being a dedicated 30k NL player I really wanted to get involved!

 

So I need some advice. It sounds like the goal is to build an army of around 3000 points. I was hoping for some suggestions to fill out my current collection and also be a little competitive.

 

As it stands I have:

20 cataphractii terminators

30 terror squad marines with volkite

5 night raptors

Fire raptor

3 comtemptor dreadnoughts

Land Raider(s)

Sevatar

Kheron Ophion

Smattering of other HQ's

 

 

So what would you add to this force? I was considering Curze and maybe a Spartan but am kinda stumped.

[helterskelter]

Do you have a starter for 10 list so we have a rough idea about how you'd like to run it?

Once we have a layout we should be able to guide it better.

 

Also 5 raptors isn't enough :p add 10 more

Edited January 25, 2017 by helterskelter

[Black_out]

Do you have a starter for 10 list so we have a rough idea about how you'd like to run it?

Once we have a layout we should be able to guide it better.

Also 5 raptors isn't enough :p add 10 more

I honestly don't have any lists to really speak of, I don't play often-another reason I'm trying to get involved with this campaign.

 

Also, noted on the Raptors! Lol

[Lord Asvaldir]

Second getting more raptors, only point of really using that squad is taking one bigger squad of ten to fifteen. 

 

I think you could also use some more heavy firepower, in particular heavy support options that work well with terror assault lists like deredeos and leviathans. One of each will do. 

 

Another option is getting more infantry models that would let you not always run terror assault like tacticals, veteran tacticals and assault marines. 

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Regarding DAV and Voxes:

 

The issue with DAV and the Nuncio-Vox is that the Vox has to start on the table turn 1 to be of any effect in guiding ones Assault Squads.

 

So not even podding down a character or unit with a Vox will work since it didn't start its turn on the table.

 

Damocles is right out due to limitations.

 

So, are there any options at all where you can have a Vox on the table in a DAV list before deep striking your jump units ?

[Caillum]

Forge Lord or Siege Breaker, with a jump pack, starting on the board rather than in a Deep Striking unit.

[em_en_oh_pee]

I didn't realize you couldn't take leviathans/contemptors in DDPs in DAV, that blows a whole through my list idea for DAV. 

 

@em_en_oh_pee: I do think your list is very solid though, that many assault marines all benefiting from talent for murder and better chances to fail fear tests are pretty solid, and I think between the fliers, speeders and jetbikes you have enough anti tank. Only thing I'd chance is drop the preator, don't think you need him with Curze. Chaplain would be more useful for big assault squads. Now if only GW made some MKIV plastic assault marines..

 

I do however still think typhoons are a problem for the list. Sure, you can drop within twelve but unless your opponent has his typhoon with its back to a board corner, it's just gonna move twelve inches back and open fire. Just gotta hope that lighting comes in turn two to finish off the typhoon. 

 

Yea, DAV is very specific. I think it takes away the Leviathan crutch a bit and forces us to think differently. Though we can still throw down a Cortus in an Anvillus for the double Grav & chainfist, but it definitely lacks the overall "holy crap!" factor the Leviathan has, because that thing is a disgusting beast. 

 

The Praetor really is a pretty solid CC character that isn't terribly expensive, though I think a Chaplain would be suitably awesome too (especially to model and paint). I am going to tinker with that and see what points it frees up (if any) for other goodies. And yea, tell me about it. I figure about the time I drop a paycheck and a half on resin ones, that is the day GW does a new box set with Assault Marines - but to be fair, I want Mk2 and Mk5 anyhow, not so keep on Mk4.

 

Typhons are somewhat a problem. The Primaris will kill it, generally, but it has to do it before the Typhon gets off a shot. That is where the 12" drop portion is vital, so that it can't shoot for a turn with that big gun, because as soon as the Krakens hit, it is going bye-bye. :D Of course, a smart enemy will park a unit or two at 12.1" away in a semi-circle around the Typhon, making that impossible, which means it is going to take some doing to not suffer at the hands of that thing. But that really is everyone's struggle, right?

[em_en_oh_pee]

Forge Lord or Siege Breaker, with a jump pack, starting on the board rather than in a Deep Striking unit.

 

Or Master of Signal, who also gets that fancy bombardment. Probably not ideal, but it is an option. Though to be fair, why take him when you can go for a Forge Lord who comes with Artificer Armor base! :D

 

Also, if I was going to go for a Forge Lord, I would go Jetbike and stick him with an anchor unit of Slayers or Hunters, dash forward and Jink (unless this puts you into the range of something like a Typhon!). That is another way, depending on terrain/deployment to make it work. 

[Count Douclar]

What do people think about legion command squad with a praetor and apothecary, all with jumppacks?

 

Might want to run this in a terror assault list. They would count as 14 models outnumbering, are fearless and have 2+ and 5+ fnp (probably too many points tho).

[em_en_oh_pee]

What do people think about legion command squad with a praetor and apothecary, all with jumppacks?

 

Might want to run this in a terror assault list. They would count as 14 models outnumbering, are fearless and have 2+ and 5+ fnp (probably too many points tho).

 

How are they Fearless?

[SkimaskMohawk]

Banner from the command squad

[Withershadow]

Too expensive once you add jump packs, since you still need to get weapons.

 

A core of 5+Apothecary is a nice unit for a Primarch to join, though, with plenty of room left in a dreadclaw.

[Count Douclar]

Doesn't adding a dreadclaw add 40 points to the unit over jump packs?

 

In terms of arming, it would be possible to arm maybe 2 or 3 with power weapons As a squad full of power weapons with praetor could probably wipe out a unit (same problem with arming a squad of raptors with maxed out power weapons). Also, apparently they have bolters and can swap them for choom (really expensive, but funny).

[SkimaskMohawk]

Kurze also can't go into a dreadclaw. That being said, he also can't get a jump pack equipped command squad, you need a praetor with a jump pack for that