++ The Murderers' Call - A Night Lords Community ++

[MyD4rkPassenger]

Since this was designed as a generalist detachment usable by anyone, I get that it doesn't do much more than we already do.  I think the problem is they overestimate the usefulness of jump models with one attack that get only get a single extra attack from their weapons.  My two raptor squads and warp talon squad don't do much more than distract my enemy before the terminators, oblits, and berzerkers do the actual work.  Oh well, at the end of the day I won't have to buy new models or completely re-write my list so I'm seeing it as a net positive in the end.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Well that was disappointing. I'm really not seeing much to tempt me here. Vicious descent might just make Warp Talons viable but it's still a 1CP gamble since you can't guarantee the charge. Usually my jump pack Lord is with my Raptors so I don't really need vicious descent on them. And honestly If I'm already destroying units I probably don't even need to use terror strike.

 

Honestly I'd rather just spend the 1-2 CPs on VoTLW or In Midnight clad for immediate and effective buffs.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/20/20th-mar-heretic-astartes-focus-the-night-lordsgw-homepage-post-1/

As a note, all of the new reroll hit abilities we've seen so far are the better variety that just says "reroll" not "reroll failed." So even succeses that are converted to fsilures via modifiers can be rerolled with these like AdMech can do with Cawl. Quite helpful.

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

I like the rules. They are not great but it makes for more terroristic and fluffy armies. I'm interested in purchasing Warp Talons now.

[Ghorgul]

 

Well that was disappointing. I'm really not seeing much to tempt me here. Vicious descent might just make Warp Talons viable but it's still a 1CP gamble since you can't guarantee the charge. Usually my jump pack Lord is with my Raptors so I don't really need vicious descent on them. And honestly If I'm already destroying units I probably don't even need to use terror strike.

 

Honestly I'd rather just spend the 1-2 CPs on VoTLW or In Midnight clad for immediate and effective buffs.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/20/20th-mar-heretic-astartes-focus-the-night-lordsgw-homepage-post-1/

As a note, all of the new reroll hit abilities we've seen so far are the better variety that just says "reroll" not "reroll failed." So even succeses that are converted to fsilures via modifiers can be rerolled with these like AdMech can do with Cawl. Quite helpful.

 

It's still pretty bad. It's carefully worded to only work after deep strike and on one single unit. Of course one can go building fancy Warp Talon combos with this, but this combo has far too many 'rolls'. First you need to make the charge succesfully. Then if you make it, congrats you got your expensive mediocre melee unit to melee, probably burning CPs to get it done. Also do note that this 'Vicious Descent' needs to be activated at the end of movement phase, so there is high risk you will just burn CPs doing nothing. Additionally Warp Talons are only good against cheap chaff (=screens) but they can't really hurt any heavier units well.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Apologies, Ghorgul, but the interface isn't letting me reply to you directly for some reason.

 

Look at the wording on Vicious Descent again. It's used at the end of the Movement Phase and lets you reroll all hits until the end of the TURN....and on HOST RAPTORAL units, not just Warp Talons.

 

So, you could drop in a large unit of Raptors with 4 Plasma Weapons (including combi on the champ), Supercharge them and blow something up with rerolls to hit, Fire Pistols at a separate chaff unit, also with rerolls, THEN charge something else, like another chaff screen where your chainswords will do work.....also with rerolls. Slaanesh Raptors could shoot twice or Khorne ones could reroll charge and then fight twice, all with those rerolls.

 

Totally worth it for 1CP at start for Host Raptoral and then 1CP each use, plus whatever bonuses you want to pile up.

[Panzer]

Apologies, Ghorgul, but the interface isn't letting me reply to you directly for some reason.

 

Look at the wording on Vicious Descent again. It's used at the end of the Movement Phase and lets you reroll all hits until the end of the TURN....and on HOST RAPTORAL units, not just Warp Talons.

 

So, you could drop in a large unit of Raptors with 4 Plasma Weapons (including combi on the champ), Supercharge them and blow something up with rerolls to hit, Fire Pistols at a separate chaff unit, also with rerolls, THEN charge something else, like another chaff screen where your chainswords will do work.....also with rerolls. Slaanesh Raptors could shoot twice or Khorne ones could reroll charge and then fight twice, all with those rerolls.

 

Totally worth it for 1CP at start for Host Raptoral and then 1CP each use, plus whatever bonuses you want to pile up.

 

I have to disagree that it's worth it. CSM aren't exactly swimming in CP and a few plasma shots aren't the world. It's certainly the best use for the Stratagem but it doesn't make the Stratagem good. The fact that it gives them a slight boost in melee as well is negligible considering how unlikely it is to make a 9" charge even with re-rolls. Not to mention that unless you face negative to-hit modificators you only miss on 1s and 2s and with a Lord nearby you already re-roll those 1s anyway (if you plan to pump that many CP into the unit you could just as well drop a Lord together with them).

[Ghorgul]

Look at the wording on Vicious Descent again. It's used at the end of the Movement Phase and lets you reroll all hits until the end of the TURN....and on HOST RAPTORAL units, not just Warp Talons.

 

So, you could drop in a large unit of Raptors with 4 Plasma Weapons (including combi on the champ), Supercharge them and blow something up with rerolls to hit, Fire Pistols at a separate chaff unit, also with rerolls, THEN charge something else, like another chaff screen where your chainswords will do work.....also with rerolls. Slaanesh Raptors could shoot twice or Khorne ones could reroll charge and then fight twice, all with those rerolls.

I'm afraid it does not work like that. I wish it did, I was thinking of Raptor drop also.

 

However the exact wording goes:

 

"Use this stratagem when a Host Raptorial unit from your army is set up on the battlefield at the end of the movement phase. You can re-roll hit rolls for attacks made by that unit until the end of your turn."

 

So it works only for one unit, not all of the Host Raptorial units, which is a huge shame.

 

EDIT: One word was missing from the rule quote.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Ghorgul

[Panzer]

 

Look at the wording on Vicious Descent again. It's used at the end of the Movement Phase and lets you reroll all hits until the end of the TURN....and on HOST RAPTORAL units, not just Warp Talons.

 

So, you could drop in a large unit of Raptors with 4 Plasma Weapons (including combi on the champ), Supercharge them and blow something up with rerolls to hit, Fire Pistols at a separate chaff unit, also with rerolls, THEN charge something else, like another chaff screen where your chainswords will do work.....also with rerolls. Slaanesh Raptors could shoot twice or Khorne ones could reroll charge and then fight twice, all with those rerolls.

I'm afraid it does not work like that. I wish it did, I was thinking of Raptor drop also.

 

However the exact wording goes:

"Use this stratagem when a Host Raptorial unit from your army is set up on the battlefield at the end of the movement phase. You can re-roll hit rolls for attacks by that unit until the end of your turn."

So it works only for one unit, not all of the Host Raptorial units, which is a huge shame.

 

 

He didn't say it works on all Host Raptorial units at the same time. He said that that since Raptors can be Host Raptorial units as well you can use it on those too and not just on Warp Talons.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

sfPanzer got what I was saying correct (one unit, multiple phases), but I think I have to disagree with the conclusion.

 

I believe that CSM are indeed swimming in CP in certain builds. I routinely field an Iron Warriors army with 13, and I can get fairly high with Night Lords too. Now that Greater Possessed can take up Elite slots cheaply, that's only going to get easier. Then there are the new rules for Red Corsairs where a Battalion with 2 cheap HQ's and 15 CSM is going to provide 8CP. Those guys are going to be the new Loyal 32 for all Chaos armies and would make excellent allies, being fellow space pirates and all. :)

 

Additionally, if the new Traitor Command Commissar turns out to be non-unique HQ, we will probably be able to field 2x7 Traitor Guardsmen, 1x4 Beastmen, and 2 Commissars for another cheap Battalion and some objective-holding chaff. We don't even have to resort to Renegades and Heretics allies.

[Brother Nihm]

Well - colour me disappointed.  

If only our jump troops had a reliable way to get those charges off, these might be good.

And all horde armies, save for daemons (?); have ways to ignore the LD penalties.

[Bulwyf]

Warp Talons need a 3D6 charge. They are the most worthless unit in the game. Great models but terrible rules.

[SyNidus]

I gotta say, the reveals so far have been incredibly disappointing. It's like as if they forget i) just how situational our legion trait is, and ii) just how much "Ignore moral tests" there are - Be it mob rule, the various forms of "stubborn" available to all armies. 

I'm still holding out a little hope for the new Vigilus Specialist detachments. The Host Raptorial sounds absolutely dreadful.

[helterskelter]

I want to see what the other prayers are for the dark apostles, I reckon we will get some more shenanigans

[Midnight Brotherhood]

Finding it very difficult to stay playing as uncorrupted Night Lords at the moment, seems like all the good stuff involves daemons / faith in the dark gods :p I might just have to let go of my Night Lords having principles and just embrace full blown heresy.

[the emperor is scottish]

The new kits i think suit the nightlords down to the ground. very baroque. I'm trying to hold true to my original plans of a Sons of horus warband (not bl) 
I do have a lot of nightlord upgrade parts kicking around though :/ might just be easier to go with the 8th. 

[Augustus b'Raass]

I like how GreaterChickenOfTzeentch is thinking. I don't like his awful avatar nor the end of his name, but I like his thinking. ;) 

Also: remember how we somewhere on page 97 or 98 said we should restart this thread ás it would get too cluttered after page 100? We're atpage 154 now and still going strong. Ave Dominus Nox

[MyD4rkPassenger]

I don't know if I will use the rules for the new executioner model...but a helmet swap and a quick change to a chainglaive and that is one sinister exalted champion or chaos lord to me!

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

The new Master of Executions gives us another use for the PA Praetor model we have in 30k with the ginormous chain axe/glaive thing. :)

[robofish7591]

I don't know if I will use the rules for the new executioner model...but a helmet swap and a quick change to a chainglaive and that is one sinister exalted champion or chaos lord to me!

 

I was thinking the same thing when I saw him!

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

He would look meaner with a Rebreather and the huge axe the Terminator Praetor for Night Lords have.

[Brother Aiwass]

So, we now have some sort of Slamcurze :)

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

Instead of Slamcurze how about Konrad Curbstomp?

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

He would look meaner with a Rebreather and the huge axe the Terminator Praetor for Night Lords have.

.

 

Either that chainaxe from the praetor or a Nighthaunt scythe and the head from a Cairn Wraith or similar.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Instead of Slamcurze how about Konrad Curbstomp?

Something tells me Konrad Curbstomp should involve a Thunder Hammer.

[Gederas]

Instead of Slamcurze how about Konrad Curbstomp?

Something tells me Konrad Curbstomp should involve a Thunder Hammer.

Well.... Guess what was added to the Melee weapons that Characters/Chosen can now take because Obsidius Mallex was used as a GENERIC CHAOS LORD in the updated codex? ;)