[HH1.0] Sons of Horus Tactica

[The Traitor]

I don't totally agree with reavers being better. Personally I think that 10 man plasma support squads are really awesome because of the psychological factor, they arrive, they obliterate something scary and they can/will do it again in next turn IF they survive, because your enemy will try to kill it fast. So they actually work as a distraction and, as you said before, you don't usually need them more than once so won't care too much if they die.

That said reavers will be usefull after they arrive, they will cause a lot of pain and do wonders at killing special weapons and some characters and while your opponent will definitely want to kill them, they won't be a number 1 priority.

For me its plasma support squad (or melta) when I run my reavers with jump pack behind and reavers when I run a more deep strike orientated list.

Also 1000 post!

Edited June 2, 2016 by The Traitor

[Sheesh Mode]

Hm.. propably because reaver squads do the same with combiweapons, take up a single slot with Dreadclaw and can be troops as well.. are way better in close combat and have precision shots and strikes. For the same price

 

Cheaper, actually. But only when a dreadclaw is purchased. Otherwise the unit is more affordable than the Reavers when deployed in a droppod. 

 

 

I don't totally agree with reavers being better. Personally I think that 10 man plasma support squads are really awesome because of the psychological factor

The units have different utility. A unit of 10 reavers assaulting into an opponent's artillery turn 2, and poised to continue jumping through their rear-line for the rest of the game has a similar psychological effect. 

 

It's really dependent on when and where you use the two units.

 

 

Hm.. propably because reaver squads do the same with combiweapons, take up a single slot with Dreadclaw and can be troops as well.. are way better in close combat and have precision shots and strikes. For the same price

 

Cheaper, actually. But only when a dreadclaw is purchased. Otherwise the unit is more affordable than the Reavers when deployed in a droppod. 

[Varyn]

Hey

 

I'm pretty new to 30k, just building my SoH army (haven't played any games yet)

 

Am I correct in thinking that I can use the Long March rite of war, using Maloghurst to make reavers troops and use Abaddon attached to a unit of Justaerin to allow them to deep strike?

 

So I end up with having reavers as troops in the Long March, is that legal? 

 

I plan to use 2 units of 15 reavers with jump packs, deep strike Abaddon with 5 justaerin (all combi plasma) and attach Maloguhurst to a heavy support squad. Plus a deredeo, dual CCW contemptor (in a pod) and assault cannon/ccw contemptor.

 

Apologies if this derails the discussion slightly!

[PastelAvenger]

That is all very legal and a good way to get what you want from The Black Reaving without taking it.

 

Abbadon is a bit rubbish for his points costs though, his only saving grace is being allowed to teleport justaerin. I know this is wish listing it but if he had a Paragon Blade upgrade he would be perfect.

 

I would advise you to give 4 Justaerin Power fists and 1 a Chain Fist, you're striking last anyway with power axes so for 5pts per guy you're now able to ignore FnP and kill multi wound models outright.

[Varyn]

I thought that having a MC powerfist on abaddon with 5 attacks (on the charge) would be sufficient, plus 4 of the terminators should hopefully get to attack again because of merciless fighter. Or is the trade off of extra attacks at I1 vs the power fist not worth it?

 

I've currently got 1 power sword, 3 lightning claws and a chainfist

[PastelAvenger]

I thought that having a MC powerfist on abaddon with 5 attacks (on the charge) would be sufficient, plus 4 of the terminators should hopefully get to attack again because of merciless fighter. Or is the trade off of extra attacks at I1 vs the power fist not worth it?

 

I've currently got 1 power sword, 3 lightning claws and a chainfist

Justaerin are meant to be going after elite infantry and those guys tote a 2+ save so negating that is better than an extra attack in my opinion. If you're going to make a squad of 10 maybe start throwing in a few claws then.

 

The bits about Abbadon are just my personal opinions I think for the points he could be so much better when you start looking at other Legion characters.

[The Traitor]

 

I thought that having a MC powerfist on abaddon with 5 attacks (on the charge) would be sufficient, plus 4 of the terminators should hopefully get to attack again because of merciless fighter. Or is the trade off of extra attacks at I1 vs the power fist not worth it?

I've currently got 1 power sword, 3 lightning claws and a chainfist

Justaerin are meant to be going after elite infantry and those guys tote a 2+ save so negating that is better than an extra attack in my opinion. If you're going to make a squad of 10 maybe start throwing in a few claws then.

The bits about Abbadon are just my personal opinions I think for the points he could be so much better when you start looking at other Legion characters.

In my opinion the justaerin loadout depends if you are playing against 40k armies or not. If you are I would go for lightning claw or power weapon, if you're just playing heresy, power fists, chainfists (or even power axes if you don't have the points) work better.

Also I know the BR bonuses are a deal worse than the LM, but I would seriously consider it to be able to cut off Maloghurst and Abbadon (especially Abby), you would need to play at least at 2000 points to field both and personally I would rather go with a praetor with cataphractii armour and paragon blade to acompany your justaerin. This way you could spend those points in another unit of justaerin who could also deep strike because BR. If you run LM I beleive that pods and dreadclaws work better.

Also, welcome to the Heresy, you have chosen the correct faction!

[PastelAvenger]

You've chosen the CORRECT Legion Edited June 9, 2016 by PastelAvenger

[Varyn]

I really like the Abaddon model (just got it for my birthday!) so I'd really like to keep him in the list, I may change to the BR for some games, but I've only got about 35 reavers, so I don't know if units of 11-12 are too small.

 

Also from what I've read, the bonuses from the BR aren't that great, the only stand out one is the deep strike for justaerin. My other concern is that I would like to have a heavy support squad and a deredeo dreadnought, which means I must take 3 fast attack choices, I currently own 0 fast attack units! 

 

So I think for my collection (the models I have and the models I'd like to keep in), the Long March with Mal and Abaddon is the better fit. Although I appreciate the advice and suggestions, I'll certainly look at adding some power fists to my justaerin :)

[PastelAvenger]

I use 1 X 15 man squad of Reavers with Jump Packs for assault and a 2 X 10 man with combi weapons in Dreadclaws if I'm struggling for FA choices I just move the Dreadclaws to FA.

[norngahl]

FA are best filled with 2x Dreadclaws and 1x Primaris Lightning (fully geared with 6x Kraken Missiles).

 

Heavy support squads with 10 Volkites are totally awesome in terms of damage output, go for it!

 

Deredo is really not worth it. You get 3 quadmortars with shatter shells, go for them. AA isn't that important Imho, because you will rarely face more than 1 flyer, at best 2, and the 45° arc of the deredeo is easily avoided. So they will alpha strike you anyway.

 

Fire Raptor and quad mortars, better go for them.

[Terminus]

I find 6x kraken missiles to be overpriced/unnecessary.  The Lightning dies to pretty much anything that chooses to pay attention to it, and with 2 more spare missiles in its banks, something will definitely pay attention to it.  When it unleashes 4 missiles to crap all over something, and then is just zipping around with a single TL lascannon, it's far more likely to get ignored long enough for you to fly it off the board and save the VP (and I guess maintain air superiority if you play with that nonsense). `

[PastelAvenger]

I personally don't use a Lightning but I've always thought the RAD missile launcher would help a SoH player out a lot, makes your Reavers wound on 3s Justaerin now ID units they charge, it does seem over priced though at 25pts.....just my musings has anyone taken it?

[Flint13]

I agree with Terminus on the Krakens.

 

I think that it pays to think of the Lightning as having only a single turn to get work done. Anything past that initial turn consider a bonus, but don't rely on it happening. They're just way too much of a threat and too fragile to survive long.

 

@Pastel - Unfortunately the Rad missiles only reduce toughness on something they've already wounded, so they aren't a huge boost to fighting units of infantry except in very specific circumstances. In the case of the Justaerin, if you managed to make a wound through their armor, only the terminators wounded would be at reduced toughness. So you'd have to have one of them in a challenge or something similar to take advantage of their T3, otherwise Majority Toughness would still have the unit at 4. 

[norngahl]

Actually, 1 additional set of krakens is only 25 points. If the enemy ignores the primaris, it will destroy another vehicle wirh 2 krakens and a tank hunter lascannon ;)

 

I consider the primaris a throwaway unit, but a mighty one! Everything after the initial target is a flat out bonus.

 

I considered taking two of them, but usually, at least in 30k, there isn't that much antitank needed.

[PastelAvenger]

@Pastel - Unfortunately the Rad missiles only reduce toughness on something they've already wounded, so they aren't a huge boost to fighting units of infantry except in very specific circumstances. In the case of the Justaerin, if you managed to make a wound through their armor, only the terminators wounded would be at reduced toughness. So you'd have to have one of them in a challenge or something similar to take advantage of their T3, otherwise Majority Toughness would still have the unit at 4.

Sorry I was under the impression they worked like Rad Grenades it's pretty useless then

[Flint13]

Actually, 1 additional set of krakens is only 25 points. If the enemy ignores the primaris, it will destroy another vehicle wirh 2 krakens and a tank hunter lascannon

 

I consider the primaris a throwaway unit, but a mighty one! Everything after the initial target is a flat out bonus.

 

I considered taking two of them, but usually, at least in 30k, there isn't that much antitank needed.

A single pair, sure. 

 

But with the three pair we were discussing, you're up 75pts. Then 25pts for tank hunter and ground tracking and you've got... what a 225pt model? That has two hull points and AV11.

 

The initial 4 kraken are a worthwhile investment, but your opponent is asleep at the wheel if you bring the Lightning on, reduce a vehicle to its component atoms with that opening barrage, then he or she lets it stay around for another volley. 

[norngahl]

If its 235 with all the gear.

 

But you are saying it's not good to pay 235 points for a paper flyer. But 210 is fine? :D

 

It's 25 on top of a "worthwile investment". If you have the chance to drop the second load, it will make it's points back twice.

 

What else do I get for 25 points that has the same devasting potential? Pretty much nothing. No powerfist, no 2 combiweapons.

 

Yeah, the 25 points might be lost. Personally, I willingly pay for the possible reward.

[Terminus]

25 points goes an extremely long way, especially if you are making similar compromises on multiple units. That can easily add up to another unit, or a key upgrade.  So yes, it matters.  I quibble over even 10 point upgrades, much less 25.  It's also more points that could languish in reserves for who knows how long.  I guess you could look at the 25 points as an insurance that your opponent has to pay attention to it, to dilute his firepower on the turn it comes in.  Then you can jink for a 3+, hope to survive, and zoom to leave the table, and do another 3 hull points to something when you come back. Probably not worth it in a timed setting where you don't get a full 5-6 turns. Alamo big event went to turn 3.

 

That said, I've had some success with a Mechanicum Avenger with kraken missiles and battle servitor control.  Not as effective at deleting super-heavy units and 'only' BS4 against ground targets, but two krakens and two lascannons make short work of standard vehicles, and two lascannons and an avenger cannon make it a significant threat on subsequent turns.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Terminus

[norngahl]

Sure, everything can add up. What adds up fastest IMO is the small bonus stuff.. vexillas, AA, PW..

 

I guess the best way to say points is on this stuff. Or taking Cortus-Contemptors with Dual Grav in Pod instead of a regular Contemptors. But Krakens are so devasting when hitting on 2s, 2 dices armour penetration, rerolling dices due to tank hunter AND AP1.

 

I share your opinion that taking MSU is better than to max everything out. But in this case, it's worth it more times than not, at least, when your opponent brings some armour rather than just rhinos. :)

[PastelAvenger]

So coming up in July I have a game against a couple of my friends, we always trash talk and tell the other how we are gonna win blah blah blah.

 

This time I've decided to go a bit extreme......I've got a Tau army I'm looking at shifting for 10 Land Speeders.

 

I'm thinking of taking 2 units of 4 with Multi Meltas and Graviton Guns to deal with any Anti Tank stuff. This will be backed up by 3 Graviton Cannons.

 

I know I will be facing 2 Spartans at least and this I thought would give me a cheap fast way of dealing with them.

 

For anyone interested here's my list any comments are welcome.

 

 

+++ 2500 (2500pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2500pts) ++

 

+ HQ (505pts) +

 

Legion Centurion (195pts) [Damocles Command Rhino, Power Armour]

····Consul [Master of Signal]

 

Legion Centurion (130pts) [Artificer Armour, Refractor Field, Thunder Hammer]

····Consul [Primus Medicae]

 

Legion Praetor (180pts) [Artificer Armour, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo, Mastercraft a Single Weapon, Thunder Hammer]

····Master of the Legion [The Black Reaving]

 

+ Troops (1010pts) +

 

Reaver Attack Squad (320pts) [Artificer Armour, 10x Combi-weapon with Banestrike Shells, 9x Reavers]

 

Reaver Attack Squad (370pts) [Artificer Armour, 3x Power Fist, 3x Power Weapon, 14x Reavers]

 

Reaver Attack Squad (320pts) [Artificer Armour, 10x Combi-weapon with Banestrike Shells, 9x Reavers]

 

+ Elites (225pts) +

 

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (225pts)

····Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Graviton Cannon]

····Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Graviton Cannon]

····Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Graviton Cannon]

 

+ Fast Attack (760pts) +

 

Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (160pts) [Melta Bombs, Multi-Melta, 3x Space Marine Sky Hunters]

 

Legion Land Speeder Squadron (300pts)

····Legion Land Speeder [Graviton Gun, Multi-melta]

····Legion Land Speeder [Graviton Gun, Multi-melta]

····Legion Land Speeder [Graviton Gun, Multi-melta]

····Legion Land Speeder [Graviton Gun, Multi-melta]

 

Legion Land Speeder Squadron (300pts)

····Legion Land Speeder [Graviton Gun, Multi-melta]

····Legion Land Speeder [Graviton Gun, Multi-melta]

····Legion Land Speeder [Graviton Gun, Multi-melta]

····Legion Land Speeder [Graviton Gun, Multi-melta]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [Traitor, XVI: Sons of Horus]

[norngahl]

Hum.. I'd say drop the jetbikes and give rhinos to the combi reavers plus jump packs to the 15 reavers plus the chars.. why the hammer over a paragon blade? Lovely Ini5.. when he runs with 3 powerfists, what for?

 

A single melta and meltabomb aren't worth 160 points imo. Beside this.. this one is definately a tailored :cuss list, but thats what rivality is about ;)

[PastelAvenger]

We are not running the FAQ as its a draft and to be honest I'm surprised people are in 30k

 

I was going to outflank the Reavers as everything is going to come on reliably turn 2 but the bikes do seem out of place at the moment I just like running them.

 

A Thunder hammer will kill anyone in a challenge if the fail 1 save I've yet to see a Paragon Blade do this, the Instant Death is nice but rarely ever works and I get the same from just using a Thunder Hammer.

 

To be honest the list was just designed to kill tanks without a heavy support choice it's not particularly tailored to them, if a Glsive is played I think I'm screwed haha

[Ishagu]

I'm a huge supporter of the FAQ, including the Grenade changes.

 

Really not changes in fact, they simply clarified the rules.

 

Gives a much needed boost to Dreads in CC!

[PastelAvenger]

I'm a huge supporter of the FAQ, including the Grenade changes.

 

Really not changes in fact, they simply clarified the rules.

 

Gives a much needed boost to Dreads in CC!

Doesn't it make buying squad wide Melta Bombs pointless though? Or am I missing something