[HH1.0] Sons of Horus Tactica

[norngahl]

If you kill one MB guy, there is still another one.. but yes, bombs got seriously nerved.

[Slips]

Potentially getting Nerfed. The FAQ isn't official yet and if you're using it...why?

Edited June 14, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Ion]

I'm getting some Justaerin soon and I wanted to be sure of my loadout before I put them together.

 

My current plan is a 10 man squad, 6 power fists, 2 chain fists, a heavy flamer and two power weapons. They'll run with a cataphractii primus praetor and primus medicae in  Spartan.

 

My questions are, Is the build viable, and if it is, which kind of power weapons should I put on those last two?

[PastelAvenger]

To be honest I wouldn't bother with the Heavy Flamer and I would give 8 of them Power Fists.

 

One thieng you haven't mentioned are combi weapons, every Justaerin should really be equipped with Combi Plasma or Combi Meltas. They are going to get close so you might as well get the benefit of Death Dealer.

[Ion]

I don't think my list has quite the amount of points to play around with to give them all that. 8 fists, 2 chainfists, and 10 combi weapons puts me 70 points over, and the only places I can take from are things like the armoured ceramite or auxiliary drives from my rhinos

[Ishagu]

Combi Meltas or Plasmas for all, and Power Fists across the board sprinkled with a few chain Fists :-)

[PastelAvenger]

I don't think my list has quite the amount of points to play around with to give them all that. 8 fists, 2 chainfists, and 10 combi weapons puts me 70 points over, and the only places I can take from are things like the armoured ceramite or auxiliary drives from my rhinos

I would drop 2 Justaerin to get the upgrades, if you really want to make them a true Deathstar (which it seems you do) then I would strongly advise you take the upgrades

[Exark]

Question guys, I haven't been able to find it anywhere, but do suspensor web heavy bolters get the bonus from death dealers if they're fired as the 18" assault type? 

[Charlo]

As long as you are shooting within 12", then yes! Yes it would! Awesome discovery.

[Terminus]

Yes, it's why Sons have some of the best sniper Veterans, just by being the most accurate (can do decently in melee too if they outnumber the opponent).

[Exark]

Thanks for confirming Charlo and Terminus!

[PastelAvenger]

So I've got a few more games under my belt recently and learning from my mistakes has made me change my army quite a lot.

 

Outflanking Reavers in a Rhino are amazing if kitted out with combi weapons combining this with a Damocles everything is coming on turn 2. Last week they vaporised Gulliman (much to the dislike of my opponent)

 

I've even stopped taking jump packs on my assault based Reavers. Ive been maxing the squad and trust me no one ignores 15 Guys popping up on the side of the battle field.

 

I know I'm not getting a charge until turn 3 at least but it is minimising the amount of damage they are taking even on a densely retrained board.

 

Just my 2p

[disease]

New red book has done wonders for veterans. Anyone care to analsye how SOH could benefit most from changes?

[Charlo]

New red book has done wonders for veterans. Anyone care to analsye how SOH could benefit most from changes?

 

Veterans with Sniper and Outflank in a Maloghurst list.

 

Your troops now come in from the side with Death-Dealer BS5 Sniper Combi-Weapons.

 

Enjoy.

[Jackalwolf]

So I was considering my SoH list with Maloghurst and therefore, my troops will be veteran tactical squads or reavers. With the new changes to the veteran squad though, I´m wondering if they´re actually better than the reavers at what reavers can do:

 
Scenario 1: Marksman assassination team:
 
10 Veteran Tacticals with:
10 Combi-weapons
Sergeant with Artificer armor and Power weapon
10 melta bombs
1 Rhino as a Dedicated transport
Marksman (Outflank + Sniper) Veteran Tactic
Unit Cost: 340 Points

 

10 Reavers with:
10 Combi-weapons
Chieftain with Aritificer armor, Power weapon and melta bombs
9 Chainaxes
Jump Packs
Unit Cost: 394 Points
 
Seems to me the veterans come out on top. They´re 54 points cheaper, have all melta bombs to blow up something after they´ve spent their combi-shot, and come in a Rhino which gives them almost the same mobility as jump packs but more durability.
 
 
Scenario 2: close combat squad
 
10 Veteran Tacticals with:
10 Power weapons
Sergeant with Artificer armor 
10 melta bombs
1 Rhino as a Dedicated transport
Swordmasters (+1 WS)
Unit Cost: 330 Points
 
10 Reavers with:
10 Power weapons
Chieftain with Aritificer armor and melta bombs
Jump Packs
Unit Cost: 375 Points
 
Looks like it´s again a win for the veterans. 45 points cheaper for 9 more melta bombs and WS5 across all the unit vs Reavers with WS4, and don´t forget the veterans also have a bolter still and objective secured, which the Reavers only get with Maloghurst. The one things Reavers have going on for them here is the fact they can take jump packs, which make it easier to get the charge.

 
Conclusion
 
Are reavers outdated again?

Edited July 15, 2016 by Grieux

[Charlo]

Perhaps so sadly :(

 

All of their niche's are gone, sort of like AL Headhunters and RG Mor'Deythan (sort of...)

[Jackalwolf]

Dang i do love the models and their fluff but honestly... for marksmen the veterans are definitely better at lower point cost and for CC they do have the jump packs but I´d rather have +1 WS and a rhino at a lower point cost any time...

 

Heh thanks yes you´re right. Veterans are cheaper though with +1 WS if you´re using them for combat.

• 10 vets with 8 power weapons and +1WS in a Rhino with a Seargent on artificer armor: 285 points
• 10 reavers with 10 chainaxes on jump packs with a sergeant on artificer armor and melta bombs: 285 points

Honestly, I love the reavers as a concept and models but it´s going to be tough to put them in over veterans!

Edited July 15, 2016 by Grieux

[Charlo]

Chain Axes are now +1S, so there is that at least. And Jump packs certainly have their place, especially with outflank.

285 pts for WS5 Vets in a Rhino is DIRT CHEAP.

[Jackalwolf]

Hehe yes, and don´t forget they do have 8 power swords/axes at that price!

[Slips]

I dont know why youd put a CC unit into a non assault vehicle though. Seems counter productive.

[Jackalwolf]

Fair enough, was just to exemplify unit with delivery method. 285 points you have 10 vets in a dreadclaw. Same points for 10 reavers with jump packs

[Slips]

In this scenario, one has a more assured delivery system due to IGS while the other has more overall mobility.

 

So its a trade off at that point: get where you need to ASAP and assuredly or can you take a few detours (if we really oversimplify things)

[disease]

How about comparing the new assuakt marines to jump pack reavers?

[Terminus]

FW went overboard in their typical way, lol.

 

15 Reavers with jump packs - 335

15 Assault Marines - 235

 

Reavers do get +1 attack and better weapon options for assault (chain axes and unlimited power weapons rather than just 1 in 5), but a 100 points for the privilege is steep. New Assault Marines are probably the best non-veteran troop unit.

 

A more interesting question is whether Sons can get Dreadclaws without inertial guidance for a 15 point discount. Seems fair.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Terminus

[norngahl]

Thing is Mal became even more uninteresting, as there are little reasons to take reavers when vetetans get outflank plus sniper and access to combi weapons for less..

 

15 points increase on claws are fair for the internal guidance, you can simply ram it down your opponents throat and put it inbetween his lines, turboboost and hurt a unit or directly place the unit where you want it to simply alpha strike with combi weapons..

 

10 Veterans are 160 points with outflank and sniper.. PotL rocks now, 2 attacks, free ccw and special rules.. if you upgrade tacticals with ccw they cost 145 for 10, so for 1,5 points per model you get the special rules and plus one attack, it's hard to even consider tacticals any longer..

 

Dreads in Pods are now hardly an option.. at least contemptor and legion dreads.. way too expensive for what they bring to the field, contemptor with double grav in pod for 305 points? Hell no. They were expensive before, but now they shouldn't be considered.. thought about letting a naked cortus run up the field with CCW for distraction, few points just for fun..

 

Javelins are hard to pass on now with such a price drop.. they were good before, now they are almost auto include..

 

Especially when compared to sicarans.. hb sicaran for 155 was okay, but for 185.. uhm did I miss something?!

 

Reavers with chainaxes might be nice somehow, barebones vs some armies.. vs armies like auxilia or such they wound on 2+ and ignore armor at ini.. for not too much points.. only use I see for them compared to veterans..