[HH1.0] Sons of Horus Tactica

[Caillum]

On top of Reavers, Maloghurst also makes Veterans into Troops without a Rite of War, so I definitely think he has a place still. 'Pride of the Legion' now has a 2VP cost to losing your Vets/Terminators, which you can avoid completely with Mal. 'Chosen Duty' is a better option with 1VP up for grabs for either player, but you get no Lords of War except for Horus.

 

Completely agree with your other points though: Contemptor-Cortus with chainfist & dual grav might be the best option; Javelins are gold, but I liked them already; and Sicarans are not nearly as good as they used to be.

[The Traitor]

I can still see reavers having a place with upgraded chain axes. Also donto forget they get access to jump packs and have precision shots.

Reavers haven't been downgraded, just eclipsed by better options...

[Sanct]

Thing is Mal became even more uninteresting

 

 

Depends on how it affects dreads and their podding. Orbital Assault became much, much better with maloghurst and vets.  I can now field similar vet builds to my podding reavers and vets for ~40-50 points less per unit while trading assassin's eye for a vet skill of my choice.

 

Sniper/combi-flamers or grenade launchers from a pod?  Yes plz.

Monster Hunter/combi-volkite or plas?  Nomomomom.

+1 to ap/combi-plas?  Hell you can doubletap the boltguns into the rear armour of tanks to wreck them and use the plas shot on terminators

 

 

Without the rumoured pod changes for box dreads my base 2k orbital assault/maloghhurst list now has a spare 100 points but improved in my eyes.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Sanct

[Charlo]

Orbital Assault with Vets and Mal is now one of the most brutal builds. You could get SO MUCH power down turn one.

Add Horus too and jeez.

[depthcharge12]

Lol not to jump on a bandwagon but I was up at 2 in the morning making this list :P

 

It could definitely be optimized a bit more, so I'd like everyone's input:

 

Mal 2500 points

 

HQ

•Maloghurst (140)

 

•Forge Lord (135)

+ AA, Servo arm, rad grenades, cyber familiar, refractor field, power axe

 

•5 Justaerin (297)

+ MM, 1 combi plasma, chainfist

+ Dreadclaw (115)

 

Elites

•Apothecary (45)

+AA

 

Troops

•18 Despoilers (235)

+ Sgt w/PA/AA/MBs, chainswords

 

•9 vets [+1 penetration] (263)

+ 5 combi Melta, 3 power swords, 9 Melta bombs, vexilla

+ drop pod (35)

 

•8 tactical support marines (150)

+8 Volkite chargers

+ drop pod (35)

 

FA

•2 Javelin Speeders (150)

+ lascannons, MM

+ Lascannons, MM

 

•6 Seeker marines (225)

+ 5 combi plas

+ drop pod (35)

 

Heavy Support

•Kharybdis (235)

 

•Leviathan (290)

+ Storm cannon, drill, volkites

+ Dread drop pod (100)

 

 

I'm considering maybe switching the tacticals into another vet or reaver squad and putting them in the Justaerin's dreadclaw so I can do the Justaerin and Forgelord in the Kharybidis.

 

The Forgelord right now goes with the mega tactical blob in the Kharbydis - he can repair any damage to it while they are flying around in it, and then provides a solid tank to fight in cc with a 2+/4++ and rad grenades. This unit is meant really to troll elite units by swamping them.

 

The apothecary goes with the extra cheap vet squad in a pod to use 5 S9 combi meltas to slag important vehicles before assaulting next turn. Melta bombs and vexilla there for just in case.

 

Maloghurst goes with the Seekers to do an Alpha plasma strike of doom. I don't think the seeker strike leader can take a combi weapon per the wording so meh. Scorpius bolts are pretty good now too. A little bit more thematic.

 

The volkite charger squad is hilariously cheap now, but you also gain +1 BS due to Death Dealers...so Choom all day.

[Terminus]

On top of Reavers, Maloghurst also makes Veterans into Troops without a Rite of War, so I definitely think he has a place still. 'Pride of the Legion' now has a 2VP cost to losing your Vets/Terminators, which you can avoid completely with Mal. 'Chosen Duty' is a better option with 1VP up for grabs for either player, but you get no Lords of War except for Horus.

 

Completely agree with your other points though: Contemptor-Cortus with chainfist & dual grav might be the best option; Javelins are gold, but I liked them already; and Sicarans are not nearly as good as they used to be.

Not sure about chainfist double grav when you gotta spend at least the first turn running. I am contemplating a talon of Cortus advancing lock step with some kind of weapon that mitigates their BS4, like Kheres or TL lascannons.

 

Chosen Duty cannot take Horus or any other LOW. Javelins are great, and Sons are probably second best after Maru Skara for utilization due to innate rerolls of reserves.

 

Sicarian is kinda bad at +30, unless he's your Warlord with BS5.

[The Traitor]

 

On top of Reavers, Maloghurst also makes Veterans into Troops without a Rite of War, so I definitely think he has a place still. 'Pride of the Legion' now has a 2VP cost to losing your Vets/Terminators, which you can avoid completely with Mal. 'Chosen Duty' is a better option with 1VP up for grabs for either player, but you get no Lords of War except for Horus.

Completely agree with your other points though: Contemptor-Cortus with chainfist & dual grav might be the best option; Javelins are gold, but I liked them already; and Sicarans are not nearly as good as they used to be.

Not sure about chainfist double grav when you gotta spend at least the first turn running. I am contemplating a talon of Cortus advancing lock step with some kind of weapon that mitigates their BS4, like Kheres or TL lascannons.

Chosen Duty cannot take Horus or any other LOW. Javelins are great, and Sons are probably second best after Maru Skara for utilization due to innate rerolls of reserves.

Sicarian is kinda bad at +30, unless he's your Warlord with BS5.

Why your sicarian gets BS5 by being your Warlord? Has it something to do with the Armoured Breakthrough RoW? Is this a competitive option? Cause having a BS5 sicarian leading a bunch of predators would be so badass...

[Terminus]

Yes, and how the command tank can have master of the legion so you don't need to spend for a praetor. Fast scoring predator troops are indeed quite competitive, and now have less to fear from drop pod lists.

 

The 2 VP thing is huge, so as far as I'm concerned if you want vet spam, go Delegatus. If you want terminator spam, Primarchs Chosen. Sure neither can take a LOW, but that's a 3rd VP up for grabs.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Terminus

[Sanct]

Yes, and how the command tank can have master of the legion so you don't need to spend for a praetor....

 

Wut? I'm not seeing a way to give MotL to any tank..

[Caillum]

@Sanct, read my summary here. Armoured Breakthrough got a nice boost.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/?p=4442532

 

@Terminus, you can take a Delegatus running Chosen Duty with a Primarch. No Praetors or Lords of War are available when he is Warlord. He must be Warlord only if the Primarch is not present. Basically, take a Primarch and a Delegatus and you have Troop Veterans. :)

 

Edit: Horus already makes Vets into Troops, so probably a better trick for other Legions.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Caillum

[Ishagu]

Primarchs have master of the Legion so they can always make Vets into troops either through PotL or Primarch's Chosen.

[Terminus]

@Sanct, read my summary here. Armoured Breakthrough got a nice boost.http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/?p=4442532

@Terminus, you can take a Delegatus running Chosen Duty with a Primarch. No Praetors or Lords of War are available when he is Warlord. He must be Warlord only if the Primarch is not present. Basically, take a Primarch and a Delegatus and you have Troop Veterans. :)

Edit: Horus already makes Vets into Troops, so probably a better trick for other Legions.

You're absolutely right, I was conflating the Delegatus rules with the rules of the Rite. I should really stop posting about rules when away from books, and into week 2 of being drunk on Brazilian sugar cane moonshine.

 

With Pride of the Legion giving up so many VPs, and with no less than three other ways to get Vet troops with Sons of Horus, the whole Legion is the pride of the Legion! No half-assign allowed!

Edited July 18, 2016 by Terminus

[AmCjkh]

What do you guys think about a Sons of Horus Maloghurst Orbital Assault army? It's one of the few ways to get veterans as troops in legion drop pods, which is deadly combined with Death Dealers. I'm thinking 5 vets all with combi-meltas in a pod for 185pts. This can reliably arrive and take out a Contemptor, Sicaran, Vindicator, Basilisk, Medusa, or basically anything without armored ceramite, and even against armored ceramite the vets can take machine killers and stand a fair chance. With all the heavy armor prevalent in the game today, units like this that can drop down and delete tanks sound really appealing. After that they can score objectives, beat up small units in close combat, be chaff, and generally be a nuisance.

 

Of course vets with combi-plasmas or heavy flamers can delete units and are a good option too. I'm not sold on dreadnought talons, a trio of flamestorm cannons or dual graviton guns on turn one sounds cool but they need to take either dreadnought drop pods or Dreadclaws. They're both quite expensive now and don't allow for good alpha strike shooting with the shrouding change. Leviathans in pods aren't quite as ridiculous as before but I think they're still decent, shrouding doesn't hurt them as much and the cost of the pod is a much smaller percentage of their value. Dreadclaw/Kharybdis carrying Justaerin are still a good choice. The new awesome Javelins provide good ranged support too, Jetbikes as well. Assault marines are an option and are attractive with Merciless Fighters, but Deep Strike just isn't that reliable with them so to me their value is debatable. Flyers are pretty good, but I just favor them less because they don't take advantage of the Sons of Horus rules as much.

 

Unfortunately Orbital Assault means no heavy armor and rapiers. It also means getting in harms way right next to Spartans carrying close combat beatsticks without the option of a Typhon, grav rapiers, or whatever big guns to shoot them from a safe distance. Combi-plasma vets and Justaerin will have to take them on in person, but that's very appropriate for a Sons of Horus speartip anyway. In fact, using the initial wave of combi-melta vets to pop some supporting armor and then get murdered by the enemy's close combat elite could be a way to get the enemy out of their Spartan and into the open to get shot by combi-plasma vets coming in on turn 2. The tactical flexibility to back up, outmaneuver, and whittle the enemy down is unfortunately not an option and your opponent will know that, making this army predictable. What do you guys think about the practicality of a veteran-based full Orbital Assault army?

[Charlo]

Due to just how amazing and cheap vets are now, you could use Mal to make an entire army of death dealing combi goodness.

 

Add in some Deep Striking Justaerian for pure murder.

 

Support squads are also brutal, you get death dealers and can get additional combat weapons so that you can hurt in the assault too, especially with merciless fighters.

 

And you can take rapiers in pods, you are just limited to 1 or 2 per pod or something :)

[Baluc]

@Sanct, read my summary here. Armoured Breakthrough got a nice boost.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323937-rules-changes-in-lacal/?p=4442532

 

@Terminus, you can take a Delegatus running Chosen Duty with a Primarch. No Praetors or Lords of War are available when he is Warlord. He must be Warlord only if the Primarch is not present. Basically, take a Primarch and a Delegatus and you have Troop Veterans.

 

Edit: Horus already makes Vets into Troops, so probably a better trick for other Legions.

 

The only Right of War you can have with a Primarch and a Delegatus is Primarch's Chosen which... wouldn't require a Delegatus. Since in every other Right of War a Primarch would a LoW choice, which you cannot take with a Delegatus not because of Chosen Duty but because of the limitations of the Delegatus on Pg 23 of the Red book. Unless I've misread what you are trying to say here and mean something completely different?

[Charlo]

You can take any rite of war with any Primarch or delegatus :s

[Caillum]

Might want to re-read the Delegatus rules there Baluc.

 

Age of Darkness Army List, p23:

"Restrictions: A Legion Praetor or Lords of War choice may not be taken in a Primary Detachment with a Legion Delegatus as it's Warlord." Emphasis mine.

 

So, you can't take a Lords of War choice, but ONLY if he is the Warlord.

 

Age of Darkness Army List, p23:

"Rite of Command

This Consul has the Master of the Legion special rule (see the Legion Praetor entry in this book) and may take a Legion Command Squad. In addition, the Consul must always be the army's Warlord, unless their Legion's Primarch is also taken." Emphasis mine.

 

So, he must be the Warlord, unless the Primarch is taken, as Primarchs are ALWAYS the Warlord.

 

Together, this means you can take a Delegatus as an HQ, have him choose "Chosen Duty" as the Rite of War (which is available only to him), and then have the Primarch be the Warlord (because the Warlord doesn't have to the be one running a Rite of War now). Wooo! Troop Veterans!

 

Edit: Never mind - I'm clearly on crack or something.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Caillum

[Baluc]

Might want to re-read the Delegatus rules there Baluc.

 

Age of Darkness Army List, p23:

"Restrictions: A Legion Praetor or Lords of War choice may not be taken in a Primary Detachment with a Legion Delegatus as it's Warlord." Emphasis mine.

 

So, you can't take a Lords of War choice, but ONLY if he is the Warlord.

 

Age of Darkness Army List, p23:

"Rite of Command

This Consul has the Master of the Legion special rule (see the Legion Praetor entry in this book) and may take a Legion Command Squad. In addition, the Consul must always be the army's Warlord, unless their Legion's Primarch is also taken." Emphasis mine.

 

So, he must be the Warlord, unless the Primarch is taken, as Primarchs are ALWAYS the Warlord.

 

Together, this means you can take a Delegatus as an HQ, have him choose "Chosen Duty" as the Rite of War (which is available only to him), and then have the Primarch be the Warlord (because the Warlord doesn't have to the be one running a Rite of War now). Wooo! Troop Veterans!

 

Except chosen duty requires the Delegatus to be warlord. Its literally the first thing you read in the RoW.

[Caillum]

You're right! I stand corrected. :/ Blows that idea out of the water!

[Rangaman]

The new book changes have really shaken up my army plans for a Maloghurst Armoured Spearhead...

 

Initially I was keen on two Reaver squads in Phobos Landraiders and a Plasma Support squad in a Proteus Explorator but now I am reconsidering all of that in favour of two choppy Vet squads and two shooty Vet squads in Lanraiders. What do?

[Charlo]

Vets are probably better there, though a plasma support squad is always awesome - especially now the Proteus is cheaper - you can even give it Hull-mounted twin lascannons I heard!

 

3 TL LC!

[Baluc]

The new book changes have really shaken up my army plans for a Maloghurst Armoured Spearhead...

 

Initially I was keen on two Reaver squads in Phobos Landraiders and a Plasma Support squad in a Proteus Explorator but now I am reconsidering all of that in favour of two choppy Vet squads and two shooty Vet squads in Lanraiders. What do?

 

My experience with AS is that you need dedicated assault units. Rapier batteries on second floors of buildings are particularly egregious, but even infantry in cover can be a problem. I would probably take terminators over vets though a little more compact,durable, draw the same type of weapons fire that would be targetting your tanks,also cheaper, and still scoring.

 

If you really want to use Malogurst I would suggest Reavers with jet packs. But that puts you in the grey zone for rules so...  

[Terminus]

Ok so I knew I wasn't crazy when I never considered Primarchs in Chosen Duty. The whole idea of that rite is a mission given to the Primarch's representative when he has better things to do. Damn you, Caillium, I spent like 2 hours playing with lists! To the stocks with you!

[Rangaman]

Vets are probably better there, though a plasma support squad is always awesome - especially now the Proteus is cheaper - you can even give it Hull-mounted twin lascannons I heard!

 

3 TL LC!

I've heard mixed reports on the Plasma Support squads, they dish out a load of damage but apparently don't live past their first turn of shooting? If that is the case, I think I would favour a Combi-plas Vet squad in the Proteus. Atleast that way I can get sniper, outflank and death dealers all in one, and the Vets come out cheaper too!

 

So do people think Vets should still be tooled for one job in particular now or should they take advantage of their cheapness and multitask? For example, tool up a vet squad with some Combi-weapons and a couple of Power weapons and a Fist, or stick to dedicated shooting or close combat roles?

[norngahl]

I feel vets live longer due to the fact that once the fired their combi plasma the opponent doesn't see them as a number one priority target anymore.. if a unit can throw a second volley in your line, you don't want to ignore them, but if it was a one trick pony.. you simply move on an choose a better target than 10 veterans, if there is any.