[HH1.0] Sons of Horus Tactica

[Vykes]

Yep, and Merciless Fighters is great* for big Sons of Horus squads (a 15 man reaver squad is bulky, and thus counts as 30, so that means more chain-axe attacks if you 'outnumber' your opponent).  A plasma support squad or dropped Seeker squad is, as always, perfect for killing those key units.  Still, Death Dealer will do real work when you need to soften them up and against 9th and 12th, you'll probably need it. 

 

*Great in so far as extra chainsword/chain-axe attacks are "great".  You could actually use power swords if you think you're gonna be hunting typical power armour squads and leave your chieftain to deal with their inevitable artificer armoured chieftain using a power axe or power fist.  Power Swords actually will actually let you get those extra attacks... or power mauls, I guess.  

[Lord Zharak]

Thanks for the responses guys! Although Reavers are super rad and have pretty good melee potential, I think I'm sold on the idea of slapping down two big blocks of tacts with bolters and chainswords. The whole idea of a big force of power armoured bodies holding the line is particularly appealing, especially since I plan on trying on deep striking Horus and some Justaerin to reinforce my battleline as opposed to just running him in a spartan like I usually did.

[ProsperoStands]

Nothing wrong with that! My 60 tactical marines is a testament to my love of the tactic.

 

Look into a Storm Eagle or two.

[Vykes]

Eh, no problem Lord Zharak!  We all play a little different and sometimes some things just kinda click and work differently for us all too.  But 40 tacs is a really good tool in any Legion player's arsenal.  And yeah, it looks seriously awesome, just make sure you can get them some cover (like, either transports or just moving cover) but with typical 9th and 12th infantry-heavy forces, it might really work well!  And that Spartan sounds right good as moving cover to get up close then seize the initiate from them too!

 

ProsperoStands definitely has the right of it!  My thoughts exactly. :) 

[Charlo]

Massed tacticals is fluffy and awesome. 60 is probably the sweet spot of not having to worry too much about massed templates and casualties either! Would be great to see that in action.

[Chaeron]

I love the thought of 60, but from general experience with foot-slogging armies, having something like 15-strong squads is normally just as good, especially if you can have as many bodies on the ground (and I tend to max out at around three of those squads, in any case).

 

That said, for my SoH, I've got the twenty-strong squad option as possibilities - because it fits them so nicely!

[Gorgoff]

In my humble oppinion moving around twenty man strong units is a pain in the ass to move around on the table.

But they look cool.

[Charlo]

In my humble oppinion moving around twenty man strong units is a pain in the ass to move around on the table.

But they look cool.

 

Sacrifices must be made!

[TheDreadfulSagittary]

Greetings!

I have an unbuilt squad of Tartaros Terminators I wanted to use for my Sons of Horus army. Could you give me some advice, how to kit them out? I need some heavy hitting units until I get a squad of Justaerins.

 

I'm building up my force, currently some Tacticals are sitting on my desk. I like the idea on big infantry blocks, my Iron Hands are built upon this concept with 40 tacs and 20 breachers. For my SoH I wanted something different with smaller but mobile squads in Rhinos or Drop Pods. I like the Reavers, but I see that mostly they are used with Jump Pack. Are they a viable choice without the Packs too? 

[ProsperoStands]

Welcome to the 16th Legion!

 

Reavers work just fine in Dreadclaw pods, I have used them before. That said you are almost better going with Weapon Master Vets due to the bump in WS. Weapon master vets are cheaper, better upgrade options and better at fighting out of a pod. Reavers really excel outflanking our using jump packs to get around.

 

16th Legion in drop pods is amazing and works very well with our Legion rules and fits the fluff. Rhinos can work as well. A Plasma support squad jumping out of a Rhino inside Death dealer range WILL delete a unit, even better out of a pod :D 

[panascope]

The viability of Reavers pretty much depends on your meta. They can’t hang in a cutthroat setting but more relaxed spaces they can do just fine. I’ve had good games running squads of 15 up the board, I’ve mostly committed to keeping them insanely cheap (Chainaxes and a Power Fist on the Chief) because it’s easy for their price to explode and once you’re looking at a Troops choice that costs as much as a Knight it’s probably not worth it.

They were pretty obviously written with 5th edition in mind where Outflank coupled with gaining Fleet in the Rite of War made them a potent and reliable ambush unit but now they’re just dated. Really can’t wait for FW to go back to some of those book 1/2 units and clean things up a bit again.

[Chaeron]

 

In my humble oppinion moving around twenty man strong units is a pain in the ass to move around on the table.

But they look cool.

 

Sacrifices must be made!

 

 

I confess to moving things en masse, especially when there's no large template weapons to avoid... I'm hoping the Warmaster appreciates the expediency

[Vykes]

Hail, Brother DreadfulSagittary! Welcome back to the legion.

 

Ah, Tartarose, one of my favourites! Honestly, it depends on what route you want to go: assuming it's just a unit of 5 I do think that you can go pretty far with them. You want them to be powerful enough as a combat unit so that they are a stand in for the Justaerin (Love me some Justies, but I arm mine pretty wonky: half a squad with chianfists and combi-melta, the rest with a lightning claw and combi-bolter as they look so dead sexy -laughs- ).

 

Primarily, having power fists or chainfists to insta-death a command squad and errant heroes, then over-run them is pretty good but it doesn't exactly do wonders for our Merciless Fighters advantage (and when we don't have that many advantages in the first place compared to other legions, it's always worth leveraging what we got). Because of the advantage of Tartaros pattern armour, it's a great way to charge out of a Phobes raider and over-run those units to carve into a second group.

 

The other is taking advantage of speed, the Tartaros plate, the option of a frag-launcher... Lightning Claws. Yeah, not super powerful, but with shred, not to mention Merciless Fighter giving them a pseudo +1 attack at the end for a total of 4 attacks each) it's enough to overwhelm other units and act as heavy assault-infantry. You can even give the sergeant a chainfist to deal with other leaders and it still benefits the squad by giving them the benefit of grenades which is rare enough.

 

Reavers, yeaaah they're medium assault infantry, I'll just say brother Panascope basically got it right, as did ProsperoStands. The jump pack versions get more play, but I use 10 cheap reavers on foot, and planning on getting 5-10 more to make up for not having any dedicated despoilers/close combat legionnaires.  That's more my fault though. 

 

Like honoured brother ProsperoStands said, our glorious Plasma Support Squads will delete units better than almost anyone else. I'll add in that our Seekers are likewise fantastic albeit expensive (especially with scout Land Raider or Storm Eagle dedicated transports).

[TheDreadfulSagittary]

Thank you Brothers for the responses!

 

My initial force now is around 1000 points, and I would like to expand it from here. The backbone will be my Tactical Squads (three 10 man strong in transports or two 15 man strong). I shall add a Plasma Support Squad to this bunch.

Reavers would be more a fluffy choice, but there is the factor, that I would like to have a CC dedicated unit. My friend wants to do a Night Lord army opposing mine, and I want to have something unique yet usefull to counter his Terror Squads and jump marines. 

 

Hail, Brother DreadfulSagittary! Welcome back to the legion.

 

Ah, Tartarose, one of my favourites! Honestly, it depends on what route you want to go: assuming it's just a unit of 5 I do think that you can go pretty far with them. You want them to be powerful enough as a combat unit so that they are a stand in for the Justaerin (Love me some Justies, but I arm mine pretty wonky: half a squad with chianfists and combi-melta, the rest with a lightning claw and combi-bolter as they look so dead sexy -laughs- ).

 

Primarily, having power fists or chainfists to insta-death a command squad and errant heroes, then over-run them is pretty good but it doesn't exactly do wonders for our Merciless Fighters advantage (and when we don't have that many advantages in the first place compared to other legions, it's always worth leveraging what we got). Because of the advantage of Tartaros pattern armour, it's a great way to charge out of a Phobes raider and over-run those units to carve into a second group.

 

The other is taking advantage of speed, the Tartaros plate, the option of a frag-launcher... Lightning Claws. Yeah, not super powerful, but with shred, not to mention Merciless Fighter giving them a pseudo +1 attack at the end for a total of 4 attacks each) it's enough to overwhelm other units and act as heavy assault-infantry. You can even give the sergeant a chainfist to deal with other leaders and it still benefits the squad by giving them the benefit of grenades which is rare enough.

 

 

 

Yes, I would like to have a unit of Justaerins but they are a bit expensive (money and pointswise) for a smaller force like mine at the moment. My thoughts exactly, as I would like to run a mixed bunch of them with Lightning Claws and combis and (chain)fists.

 

I have a Prospero Tartaros sprue, and I love these chaps. The first look I know, that I wanted them for my SoH. How would a mixed bunch fare against an opponent? And considering a Dreadclaw as transport would be an unwise decision?

[Vykes]

Eh no worries, it's what we do, mate!  

 

Lets see, it's definitely an interesting group there, and up against the scary boys of the 8th is an interesting one.  Terror squads and assault squads definitely have some punchy tricks (Terror Squad chainglaives are fun), but I do think that Reavers are pretty close to their 'level' as a medium assault unit.  They're a good analogue, really, but the 16th have chain axes as an option, the Terror Squads don't but have rules that make up for it in Murderous Talent which relies heavily on them outnumbering you: IE, they're the mirror of the Sons of Horus Merciless fighters.  I'd say it's a perfectly decent unit against Night Lords (a little bit more pricey).  They aren't some great super unit but capable of standing up against them while remaining real fluffy.  Between two roughly equal units, Terror vs. Reavers, it's a fight that can go either way pretty quickly depending on who can capitalize first.

 

Aye, Justaerin are expensive, and they are insanely points expensive and unless you're up to a 1st company force, they're probably better left to the 2K+ level.  They're just... so expensive. Awesome, but expensive. 

 

Ah yeah, I have 10 Tartaros from the Prospero sprue, and 5 as a last chance resins that I used just so I could give them power swords (thought it looked cool).  I'd think that mixed bunches are probably workable so long as it isn't really pricey splits (like, Reaper autocannons next to combi-melta, next to dual lightning claws in a 5 man unit... they could take on any type of unit but they're so expensive that they get their role spread thin.  I'd say that it can still be done, even something like a dual lightning claw sergeant with grenade harness can easily stand in most other 'advancing' terminator units, then mix power fist, chainfist, lightning claw is probably fine.  So long as you know what they're supposed to go after, they can do that role. 

 

Dreadclaw are great... I mean, I hate putting the things together, but transport wise they're perfectly good versatile things that most 16th sorts swear by.  Both the Dreadclaw and Kharibdys are solid by most accounts. 

[Gorgoff]

One word about Seekers:

Put 'em in a Dreadclaw or in a Terrax Termite. Don't (!) put them in Raiders.

That way you get most bang out of your bucks.

[Vykes]

Can't stop, won't stop :P 

[TheDreadfulSagittary]

Eh no worries, it's what we do, mate!  

 

Lets see, it's definitely an interesting group there, and up against the scary boys of the 8th is an interesting one.  Terror squads and assault squads definitely have some punchy tricks (Terror Squad chainglaives are fun), but I do think that Reavers are pretty close to their 'level' as a medium assault unit.  They're a good analogue, really, but the 16th have chain axes as an option, the Terror Squads don't but have rules that make up for it in Murderous Talent which relies heavily on them outnumbering you: IE, they're the mirror of the Sons of Horus Merciless fighters.  I'd say it's a perfectly decent unit against Night Lords (a little bit more pricey).  They aren't some great super unit but capable of standing up against them while remaining real fluffy.  Between two roughly equal units, Terror vs. Reavers, it's a fight that can go either way pretty quickly depending on who can capitalize first.

 

Aye, Justaerin are expensive, and they are insanely points expensive and unless you're up to a 1st company force, they're probably better left to the 2K+ level.  They're just... so expensive. Awesome, but expensive. 

 

 

I want them to accompany the Warmaster or hitting something important independently until I got Him, but that is for the long plan. 

 

 Ah yeah, I have 10 Tartaros from the Prospero sprue, and 5 as a last chance resins that I used just so I could give them power swords (thought it looked cool).  I'd think that mixed bunches are probably workable so long as it isn't really pricey splits (like, Reaper autocannons next to combi-melta, next to dual lightning claws in a 5 man unit... they could take on any type of unit but they're so expensive that they get their role spread thin.  I'd say that it can still be done, even something like a dual lightning claw sergeant with grenade harness can easily stand in most other 'advancing' terminator units, then mix power fist, chainfist, lightning claw is probably fine.  So long as you know what they're supposed to go after, they can do that role. 

 

 

I want to have two with Lightning Claws, one with Chainfist and two with either fists or power weapons. For heavy weapons (thought they look cool) I didn't considered any, because I wanted this unit as a close support. Maybe combi weapons. Didn't considered to run the unit with more than 5 guys, because that would need some serious transport. 

What about the Plasma Blaster? It is kinda expensive, but can it punch throught armor?

 

 Dreadclaw are great... I mean, I hate putting the things together, but transport wise they're perfectly good versatile things that most 16th sorts swear by.  Both the Dreadclaw and Kharibdys are solid by most accounts.

 

Yes, they would give me some extra maneuverability and they are a fluffy choice too for the Sons. 

[panascope]

The only bad choice for Terminators of any stripe is dual lightning claws. Combi-weapons of any stripe are so good and cheap you’d be foolish to give up all of your ranged capacity for what will likely be a couple extra attacks over the course of a game.

[Charlo]

The only bad choice for Terminators of any stripe is dual lightning claws.

 

So I see this a lot and I often ask... Why?

 

Even a small squad of LC TDA can totally mince any 3+ unit in the game, of which there are a LOT! Also some decent use against mechanicum with re-rolls to wound and striking before them.

 

Everyone always assumes that Terminators MUST FIGHT other Terminators, but LC could be a nice anti-meta choice.

[panascope]

Pretty much any TDA squad is going to mulch a 3+ squad barring gimmick stuff like all power weapon vets or something. Combi-weapons will almost certainly have utility and worst case scenario you just fire them into the squad you’re about to charge.

[ProsperoStands]

Normal Terminators I think are fine with Duel LC. Justarians? Eh I have one or two for looks but I arm mine with Power fists/Chain fists and maybe combi weapons.

 

End of the day, rule of cool always wins IMO.

[Vykes]

Lightning claw/power sword Terminators are about the only thing that leverages Merciless FIghter (No I do not count power mauls!) so having 4 attacks is kinda fun compared to 2 from a power axe.  Why give up an advantage when we get so few with how Betrayal is vs. the later books?  Like Charlo said, why make our terminators fight other terminators where they're bound to die to other better fighters? (We're not gonna be doing so hot against nearly any other terminator unit, we can hold our own at best).  Plasma clears them right up and ours plasma works great; but picking on weaker targets sounds like fun!

 

Combi-weapons are fine, they weren't nearly so much so when they were one use only but those days are gone.  Although I've never seen the combi-grenade launcher thing in the wild. 

 

Aye ProsperoStands, mate, rule of cool for Justaerin :P  none have dual lightning claws on mine, but half have regular ones because they just look so eeeevil and mean.  Love 'em. Rest got chain fists because why not?

 

Aye, DreadfulSagittary dude, I think that could work.  Aye, my Justaerin are the bodyguard for Horus so that's about as good an indication as you can get for points level there.  I do think that drop pods are great, even if they were never my thing in 40K. Tartaros with a few lightning claws and combi weapons (plasma are grand), fists or power axes (usually) are a decent mix.  It's pricey enough I wouldn't really worry about heavy weapons as it's a short range squad. 

[TheDreadfulSagittary]

 

Aye, DreadfulSagittary dude, I think that could work.  Aye, my Justaerin are the bodyguard for Horus so that's about as good an indication as you can get for points level there.  I do think that drop pods are great, even if they were never my thing in 40K. Tartaros with a few lightning claws and combi weapons (plasma are grand), fists or power axes (usually) are a decent mix.  It's pricey enough I wouldn't really worry about heavy weapons as it's a short range squad. 

 

I can't agree more. In 40k I never liked the Pods, or better said, I could never make them work properly. But I absolutely love the tactical possibilities a Dreadclaw can offer. That's why I try to build my SoH a bit differently than my boots-on-the-ground Iron Hands 

 

I have another question: what about Dreadnoughts? I see that the Leviathan is almost a must have option nowadays, but I would like to have a Contemptor too. Should I go for the usual Mortis variant with dual Kheres, or is it viable with other builds to? Like CCW? 

[Vykes]

Hah, you got that right, mate.  Aye, I always kinda felt the same but that's also because I was so sick and tired of seeing drop-pod melta vets come in and liquefy whatever it was they shot at back in 6th-7th, then when I got Armoured Ceramite I just started cackling.  Since then, Dreadclaws and Kharibdys have been 'acceptable' drop pods for me, and they work great. That'll be a big difference from most boots on the ground troops!

 

Dreadnoughts, you know it's true, leviathans (with drop pods) are one of the most ubiquitous units out there, with quad-launchers probably being the only one ahead of it in terms of common heavy hitters.  I don't think it's a must have option, but the model and machine are both so cool that it's hard to pass up (I've got 1 for each army I have), but I always bring more contemptors than levi's and have since they first showed up.  The Mortis with dual kheres are always going to be great, I've seen twin las-cannon versions used to good effect for scaring off heavier gunships (though the Deredeo with Arachus does that too).  CCW contemptors are viable, it's just a little less common as it's weirdly pricey compared to the Contemptor Mortis.  I kinda think one of the more hidden gems might be the Contemptor-Cortis for close combat.  My Blood Angels used them pretty extensively, and they are definitely a gamblers dreadnought, but can do some real work with their overcharge, and cost a fair bit less than their 'standard' prime cousins.  More over, you can throw them against their contemptor prime siblings in close combat and get an edge on them with initiative overcharge.