++ Gods of the Arena - A World Eaters Community ++

[Khornestar]

Gonna need way more pics of that thing from different angles!

[Celtic_cauldron]

Greetings Brothers!!

 

I, Celtic_Cauldron, stand as a proud warrior from the XIIth. Lord Melchor and his XXXth Company - Battle Group "Vengeance" - answer to the call of war and promise on their very skull to crush any Imperial that will attempt to prevent the Crimson Path to reach Terra.

 

Blood for the Legions!

 

Celtic_Cauldron

[Scribe]

So, with the upcoming Legion book...the fires are stoked.

 

What are the best kits to build Berzerkers with these days?

 

I would like them more 'chaos' than Heresy era.

I would like them with Chain Axes only.

[Khornestar]

I don't think you can beat the FW conversion kit + Phobos pistols/chainaxes. Legs are the issue, none really match the style/quality. I built one using BaC legs cut to be running. Looks so-so.

[Guiltysparc]

This isn't 100% what you are after but maybe it will give you a starting point...i built these guys for my 30k Indcutii, with a swap for the khorne heads and paint colors they would make pretty good berzerkers i think. These are B@C marines with 40k raptor arms and FW phobos axe/pistols. All have chainaxes, a couple have chainaxes and the raptor swords because i ran out of handless raptor arms (though as it turns out, i freakin love the dual wielding look, lol).

[Scribe]

BROTHERS AND SISTERS, IT IS GOING TO BE WORLD EATER TIME!!!

 

If you have not seen the rules, especially the throw backs and nods to 3.5 in the relics...its sublime.

 

I'm putting together my order now. 

[Cheex]

I don't know about you guys, but I really think that this Legion book will give us a serious leg-up over what we had before. We literally have everything Traitor's Hate gave us (which was a surprising amount), plus a whole stack of free rules for playing with restrictions that most World Eater players would be using anyway.

 

I've seen some people lament that berzerkers are definitely not worth it now that CSM are Fearless and Furious Charge for a fraction of the cost. And in a CAD, I'd agree - but in a Black Crusade or special World Eater Detachment (we haven't been told the name yet), berzerkers still have a place. Namely, they do exactly what Flesh Hounds do for Daemons and KDK: they sprint up the field on turn 1 and present the enemy with too many bad choices.

 

We've gone from having to settle with a turn 3 charge at best, to a possible turn 1 charge and almost certain turn 2 charge instead. MSU berzerker spam seems like the best choice for a Maelstrom, though a big blob of 20 led by a Talisman Lord is also tempting. Put that Lord on a Juggernaut as well to extend the unit's effective charge range by another 3" or so (because of the larger base) and you'd be able to cross No Man's Land in one turn, even if you roll slightly below average.

 

I think what we'll see more in competitive play is the Chaos Warband as a Core choice. Bikers will also be more than capable of first turn charges (again, the Talisman is very handy here), which you can then follow up with Fearless, Obsec CSM to cap objectives. You could have Fearless, Obsec havocs guard home objectives (remember they're only 2pts more expensive than barebones, unmarked havocs) and even have chosen dropping in via Dreadclaw with special weapons.

 

The relics are pretty cool, however I could take or leave any of them really, except the Talisman - it's just too good a force multiplier, and all for the cost of a little more than one Berzerker.

 

Will it be enough to play with the big boys, Eldar and Space Marines? I really don't know, maybe. Will it be fun as all hell? I think that's a resounding YES.

 

I haven't been this excited about CSM in years. Even KDK didn't do it for me, since all of the best choices were clearly in the Daemon half of the book!

Edited December 3, 2016 by Cheexsta

[Scribe]

My issue with KDK, was that it was solved in minutes. :p

 

I have a lot more hope for this.

[Slayer le Boucher]

I don't know about you guys, but I really think that this Legion book will give us a serious leg-up over what we had before. We literally have everything Traitor's Hate gave us (which was a surprising amount), plus a whole stack of free rules for playing with restrictions that most World Eater players would be using anyway.

 

I've seen some people lament that berzerkers are definitely not worth it now that CSM are Fearless and Furious Charge for a fraction of the cost. And in a CAD, I'd agree - but in a Black Crusade or special World Eater Detachment (we haven't been told the name yet), berzerkers still have a place. Namely, they do exactly what Flesh Hounds do for Daemons and KDK: they sprint up the field on turn 1 and present the enemy with too many bad choices.

 

We've gone from having to settle with a turn 3 charge at best, to a possible turn 1 charge and almost certain turn 2 charge instead. MSU berzerker spam seems like the best choice for a Maelstrom, though a big blob of 20 led by a Talisman Lord is also tempting. Put that Lord on a Juggernaut as well to extend the unit's effective charge range by another 3" or so (because of the larger base) and you'd be able to cross No Man's Land in one turn, even if you roll slightly below average.

 

I think what we'll see more in competitive play is the Chaos Warband as a Core choice. Bikers will also be more than capable of first turn charges (again, the Talisman is very handy here), which you can then follow up with Fearless, Obsec CSM to cap objectives. You could have Fearless, Obsec havocs guard home objectives (remember they're only 2pts more expensive than barebones, unmarked havocs) and even have chosen dropping in via Dreadclaw with special weapons.

 

The relics are pretty cool, however I could take or leave any of them really, except the Talisman - it's just too good a force multiplier, and all for the cost of a little more than one Berzerker.

 

Will it be enough to play with the big boys, Eldar and Space Marines? I really don't know, maybe. Will it be fun as all hell? I think that's a resounding YES.

 

I haven't been this excited about CSM in years. Even KDK didn't do it for me, since all of the best choices were clearly in the Daemon half of the book!

 Comparing Zerkers to KDK Hounds...

 

Hounds cost less then Zerkers, have a better profil ( except for armor, but have 2 Wounds and a invul save), are faster, get FnP from BFTBG.

 

Also i've seen a lot of people have really high hopes for the talisman, you know thats ONE per army, that it prohibits you to take a Weapon relic, since you can only take one on a char.

 

So 25pts for +3" on ONE unit, that prohibits the said character to be Killy, since unlike KDK you cannot have a good CCW( Axe of Khorne is costy, yes, but its a good weapon, AP 2 that ID on 6 and lets you strike with your Init?, yeah better then any run of the mill power weapon).

 

If any Aspiring Champ could take it, then yes, it would be worth it, but i rather take Bloodfeeder or Gorefather.

 

ANd i can't for the life of me, picture a WE Lord with a simple power weapon...

[Scribe]

It's going to depend on your points limit.

 

You will always have two HQ anyway, one as a support lord on bike with claw, and one as a bruiser isn't going to be bad.

 

A bike blob is going to replace hounds in a WE list I think.

 

All in all, this is a flavour home run for me.

 

The traits make 'all WE are berzerkers' without them all literally being berzerkers.

 

The relics are such a blast from the past I was giddy.

 

It's a total win for me, and I'll be digging out my guys next weekend.

[Prot]

I've been thinking about how I can make World Eater's work 1) in my meta, and 2) without a continual nudge to the thinking 'KDK do it better'. I'm not being negative, but there's a chance here for me to turn a new leaf, or try to make this army work again with actual marines at the helm instead of dogs.

 

+ Immediately, as has been said, the WE Detachment seriously favours a Warband. WE get discount Zerkers with real weapon options.

 

+ The Maelstrom of Gore is just not going to work in my meta. If I don't have ObSec, I have to be super killy. Like.. KDK killy with that kind of model count, bonuses and speed.

 

+ The Warband gives a feel of Khorne, while retaining flexible weapon load outs, and ObSec. 

 

+ The Auxilaries I'm not sure about. I've used a lot of the Black Crusade ones and the problem with them is, even if they work, they can reduce the numbers of would be assaulters, that are supposed to be 'discounted' now. The mark costs points, but the bonuses (VoTL/Fearless/Furious Charge) is 'free'.  

 

So Auxiliary wise if it's an option I'd definitely go with Spawn Spam with the free pre-game move. Otherwise I'm wishing the LatD was an option but it doesn't look like it.

 

+ HQ's. I honestly hate saying this but I may have to ditch Khârn. We're paying for stuff on an old character that is costed a bit much. My recent games with Maelstrom of Gore, he NEEDS protection which is why I like LatD because he kills too many of my own dudes when I finally make it.... plus ID is a real issue these days.

 

I am leaning towards: Loaded DP w/Wings and Berzerker Glaive. I guess this removes the challenge aspect, but he's full on beast mode with some survivability that I use with KDK DP's. 

 

Other HQ is looking like a Jugg Lord joining ObSec bikers.  

 

I really have had struggles with Psyker armies some times. I wish it was easier to get the Flesh hound discounted style of Collar on units. Not sure what to do there.

 

I think the Warband is going to be the way I want to start experimenting, and basically 2 HQ's with axes. I can't figure out if it's worth going with Oblits. I had decent success using my old IW Oblits to level out the 'threat' level for my opponents using the CoD Auxiliary.

 

What are you guys thinking? Anyone think Zerkers are still a thing? What about your favorite Aux? 

[Scribe]

Aux, I'll likely double drake. Around here, they still have value.

 

Berzerkers, nope, just not going to happen at the points limits (1500-1850) I run.

 

1 choppy lord, 1 utility lord, likely how I will go.

 

Going to start building up, I put a preorder in at my FLGS, so get some conversion kits and repair some of the models I have will save me a bunch.

 

I think the list STILL (thanks to formations) writes itself for us, because World Eaters are simply a more efficient option than Berzerkers. I would have to be playing a large game to make Berzerkers not eat too many points.

[Khornestar]

I wrote a 2500 list last night with a Gorefather DP, a Glaive DP, an AoBF juggerlord, and a Bloodfeeder juggerlord. Cultist troops, 3 maulerfiends, a Gore Pack, and an allied detachment with a D-Thirster.

 

7 points left I don't know how to spend.

 

 

World Eaters CAD:

 

HQ:

 

Daemon Prince of Khorne: GOREFATHER, wings, armor

Daemon Prince of Khorne: Glaive of the Berzerker, wings, armor

 

TROOPS:

Cultists x10: Mark of Khorne

Cultists x10: Mark of Khorne

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:

 

Maulerfiend: Magma Cutters

Maulerfiend: Magma Cutters

Maulerfiend: Magma Cutters

 

World Eaters CAD 2

 

HQ:

 

Lord of Khorne: Juggernaut, Sigil of Corruption, Axe of Blind Fury, Melta bombs

Lord of Khorne: Juggernaut, Sigil of Corruption, Bloodfeeder, Melta bombs

 

TROOPS:

 

Cultists x10: Mark of Khorne

Cultists x10: Mark of Khorne

 

GORE PACK

 

Bikers of Khorne x3: 2x Meltagun, Melta bombs

Bikers of Khorne x3: 2x Meltagun, Melta bombs

Bikers of Khorne x3: 2x Meltagun, Melta bombs

Bikers of Khorne x3: 2x Meltagun, Melta bombs

Flesh Hounds x8 <== joined by Juggerlord 1

Flesh Hounds x8 <== joined by Juggerlord 2

 

KHORNE DAEMONKIN ALLIED DETACHMENT:

 

Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage

Cultists of Khorne x8

Edited December 4, 2016 by Venomlust

[Cheex]

 

 Comparing Zerkers to KDK Hounds...

 

Hounds cost less then Zerkers, have a better profil ( except for armor, but have 2 Wounds and a invul save), are faster, get FnP from BFTBG.

 

Also i've seen a lot of people have really high hopes for the talisman, you know thats ONE per army, that it prohibits you to take a Weapon relic, since you can only take one on a char.

 

So 25pts for +3" on ONE unit, that prohibits the said character to be Killy, since unlike KDK you cannot have a good CCW( Axe of Khorne is costy, yes, but its a good weapon, AP 2 that ID on 6 and lets you strike with your Init?, yeah better then any run of the mill power weapon).

 

If any Aspiring Champ could take it, then yes, it would be worth it, but i rather take Bloodfeeder or Gorefather.

 

ANd i can't for the life of me, picture a WE Lord with a simple power weapon...

 

 

I was saying that Berzerkers could be used in the same way as hounds, not that they're better or even as good as them. Hounds are simply better, point-for-point. However, if you were to use a Maelstrom in a WE army, you'd use them in the same way that a KDK player would use hounds.

 

Yes, the Talisman is one per army. You'd have to build your list around it - probably in a big unit of berzerkers (if you want to take them) or bikes (more likely).

 

And who says that a Talisman Lord has to be bad at combat? Juggernaut + LC + PF is still pretty meaty.

 

So, spitballing ideas to make berzerkers work, bearing in mind that my group is more narrative than competitive:

 

Maelstrom of Gore

Chaos Lord - MoK, Vets, Juggernaut, Lightning Claw, Power Fist, Talisman

- 190pts

 

15 x Berzerkers - Vets

1 x Aspiring Champion - Power Fist

1 x Rhino - Dirge Caster

- 379pts

 

4 x Berzerkers - Vets

1 x Aspiring Champion - Meltabombs

1 x Rhino - Dirge Caster

- 150pts

 

4 x Berzerkers - Vets

1 x Aspiring Champion - Meltabombs

1 x Rhino - Dirge Caster

- 150pts

 

4 x Berzerkers - Vets

1 x Aspiring Champion - Meltabombs

1 x Rhino

- 145pts

 

Heldrake Terror Pack

Heldrake - Baleflamer

- 175pts

 

Heldrake - Baleflamer

- 175pts

 

Forgehost (Chaos Daemons)

Soul Grinder - Phlegm Bombardment

- 165pts

 

Soul Grinder - Phlegm Bombardment

- 165pts

 

Soul Grinder - Phlegm Bombardment

- 165pts

 

Total: 1849pts

 

It's a bit copypasta for my liking, but that's what happens with formations...

 

Big blob has good chance of turn 1 charge, everything else will be in range turn 2. Heldrakes flush out anything berzerkers can't reach. Soul Grinders do their thing. Rhinos provide cover and anti-overwatch protection.

[Prot]

In my meta I can't get away with flyers really... Tau killed any hope of that being a competitive choice.

 

I have similar thoughts on the lord, but I seem to have a lower points total for your lord. (I'd do similar but include Sigil of Corruption.)

[Scribe]

So, back when I played I would make up unit comps that I could slot in.

 

This is roughly what I am looking at so far (informing my initial purchases, I need some extra marines as I sold a bunch recently, a few more bikes to build a lord, and thats about it.

 

** Lord Formation

Daemon Prince

Khorne

Wings  

Armour 

Berzerker Glaive

-- 250

 

** Warband Formation

 

World Eater Lord 

MoK

VotLW 

Bike 

Power Axe 

Sigil 

Talisman of Burning Blood 

Melta Bomb 

-- 165

 

World Eater Terminators

MoK

VotLW

Power Fist/Combi Melta

LC/Combi Melta

--  124

 

10 World Eater Space Marines

Lightning Claw 

Melta Bomb 

Melta x 2

MoK 

VotLW

-- 200

 

10 World Eater Space Marines

Lightning Claw 

Melta Bomb

Melta x 2 

MoK 

VotLW 

-- 200

 

7 World Eater Bikers

MoK 

Power Sword

2 Melta 

VotLW 

-- 199

 

5 World Eater Havocs

AC x 4 

MoK 

VotLW 

-- 125

 

If I go over 1500 I add

 

** Heldrake Terror Pack

Heldrake

Heldrake

-- 340

 

OR staying Under 1500

 

** Spawn

3 Spawn

MoK

- 96

 

Feels like a decent enough mix right now, and is really quite similar to a lot of my old builds, just better. So its hard to complain. :]

[Cheex]

In my meta I can't get away with flyers really... Tau killed any hope of that being a competitive choice.

 

I have similar thoughts on the lord, but I seem to have a lower points total for your lord. (I'd do similar but include Sigil of Corruption.)

I have a very small group of players and only get maybe one game in per month if I'm lucky. Thankfully, Tau are not in my meta at all :)

 

Regarding the lord, I did give him the Sigil but forgot to write it in my post. I'll double check the points later in case I missed anything else.

[Trevak Dal]

Has there been any mention on whether or not chain axes are like they are in the heresy (+1 s ap4)? Because that would be awesome for zerks.

[Brother Mayhem]

I think I'll be running my Khorne Daemonkin mortals as a World Eater force (some of my characters were ex-World Eaters anyway...). I think hordes of Chaos Space Marines will be the trick for this force. Lots of fast moving infantry (Astartes and cultists), bikes and packs of Daemon Engines is how I see this force. Good thing is that I can throw more armour including Predators and Vindicators. I probably will do the Possessed formation too as it is cool. 

[Scribe]

Not that I've seen Trevak.

[Prot]

I think I'll be running my Khorne Daemonkin mortals as a World Eater force (some of my characters were ex-World Eaters anyway...). I think hordes of Chaos Space Marines will be the trick for this force. Lots of fast moving infantry (Astartes and cultists), bikes and packs of Daemon Engines is how I see this force. Good thing is that I can throw more armour including Predators and Vindicators. I probably will do the Possessed formation too as it is cool.

 

I kind of fall in line with this thinking. The closest I got to a successful Maelstrom of Gore was with LatD. The problem is we appear to only have the option of a Warband or MoG for a Core. I don't mind if the LatD is only an Aux choice. I can only assume though because I haven't seen it confirmed.

 

Also I love that weapon on the Daemon Prince that gives FnP IWND. He's going to be a huge threat in T 1. I kind of put mine away for the past year.

 

Also call me crazy but I am seriously thinking of raptor Talon as a real aux with talisman on the lord perhaps. Or not. But with the pseudo Fleet and 2d6on T1 , to heck with Deep Strike.

 

I confess I have 10 talons and 5 raptors. I'm kind of a sucker for flying 'zerkers' with claws and FC!

[Slayer le Boucher]

After a lot of reading and thinking, i narrowed down why i have an issue with this book.

 

The book is good, lets be honest, par for Word Bearers and World Eaters, all the Legion have something good for them.

 

What i saw, is that DG, TSons and EC, also in a way makes all of their non-Cult units, into Cult lite units.

 

DG units all get +1T for the Mark, FNP and Fearless added into VotLW.

 

EC units gets the +1 Init from the Mark, and Fearless from VotLW

 

TSons get an invul and Fearless.

 

and WE gets Furious CHarge and Fearless, with the bonuses from the Mark.

 

BUT, DG units AND Plaguemarines, gets Stealth and relentless.

 

EC and Noises gets army wide FnP6+ and combat drugs, plus the FnP can be upped to 4+ when you take an icone.

 

Tsons, have a +1 on their invul save when under a Blessing.

 

See?, all of those highly benefits not only all the non-cult units, but also the Cult units.

 

PM got their bubonic Nades and poisoned blades, while EC's got Noise weapons and Rubrics get new weapons options.

 

On the other hand, Zerkers got nothing out of all this.

 

While an EC CSM gets a bunch of rules that makes him almost a Noise Marine, Noise Marines still have their sonic equipement, PM's still got their plaque swords and nades over regular CSM.

 

WE CSM?, ironicly, they are better then Zerkers, not only they do what Zerkers do for cheaper, but they also got better gear to do it!, only things that Zerkers have that CSM don't is WS5 and the option to buy AP4 CCW for +3pts..., both of those are useless, If you don't have 8 or 9 in WS it doesn't really make a difference and 3pts for AP4 weapons?, really?

 

Thats what bothers me, ironicly WE army is better off without Zerkers, its like dunno, a White Scars army that doesn't need or want to take Bikes, or a Genestealer cult army, where genestealers are actually the worse the army can use, it doesn't make any sense.

 

The only thing that WE as is that they've now become cheaper, not better, just plain cheaper.

 

Also EC's essentialy as their Icone rule army wide, but if you take the Icone still, it actually becomes better!

 

Why does'nt it work like that with the WE Icone?, because thats whats happened, you got the rules you had with the icon for free, but then, there is litteraly no reason to ever buy an icon.

 

Why not do like with EC's?, and make the icon better?

 

Maybe i'm ranting too much, but i feel like the kid at christmas where everyone got those cool new gifts and i just get ducktape to repair one of my old toy or something...

[Prot]

I don't know... I think a lot of those other cult troops won't see play either. Honestly if you want to play with FnP I think DG are a much better option than EC. And further to that Iron Hands do it even more economically.

 

World Eaters get Adamantium Will too don't they? Honestly I like that. The Psychic phase in my meta can be pretty gross and it's at a point where having a single sort is just a waste of points.

 

I think there's a glass half full way of looking at this too. We get to turn previously useless units into pseudo Zerkers.

 

The Artifacts are actually prettyy solid too. I may actually field a very fast, Killy and survivable DP with h CSM which is a welcome change.

 

Points cost is also relevant here and I think WE do pretty good there too.

[Scribe]

Berzerkers get additional movement, and movement, delivery, is one of the biggest issues they have?

 

I honestly couldnt have asked for more.

 

I wanted an actual World Eater army, and now I have one. Berzerkers? My whole army is berzerkers, and they actually have OPTIONS, and more depth than the one note, boring unit that we have had for 20 years.

 

Berzerker Terminators? Gottem!

Teeth of Khorne? Gottem!

 

I dug out what I had left for Chaos, sold a bunch off...again, so I cant game till I get an order in, but honestly this is what I wanted since 4.0 came in and RUINED our faction.

[Cheex]

The more I think about it, the less I like Berzerkers. The Maelstrom charge bonus is still nice, as is the "get out of combat free" card, but is it worth the extra 4pts per model and losing Obsec? I'm just not sure.

 

I find myself agreeing with Brother Mayhem and Prot: multiple units of CSM running up the field, backed by other fast-movers is probably best. Not sure if I'd bother with the Raptor Talon though (even though I have 24 raptors and 5 warp talons), I'd rather use bikes from the Warband formation.

 

Another thought: assuming you can take 0-5 Command choices like in a Black Crusade detachment, I'd love to try a Juggerlord Deathstar with this army. Take 5 Juggerlords with PF+LC and Sigil, give one a Talisman for the bonus movement, and attach them all to 5 Spawn as bullet catchers.

 

Pretty fragile as far as deathstars go, but I'd still like to give it a go.