[HH1.0] Iron Warriors Tactics

[Terminus]

 

20 frag missile shots from a tyrant unit will certainly help thin the horde.

 

Plus the other problems you noted other legions suffer as well

 

yea, but a unit of 50 is 100 points...so you can have an absolutely insane number of dudes plus all their support; 300 fearless, hatred rending 2 cc weapon guys for 600 points. Which is pretty much the same cost as 10 Tyrants 

 

Arguments like this are kind of meaningless. Obtaining, assembling and painting 10 Tyrands is infinitely easier than doing the same for 300 grunts for a niche list. Given the effort and cost required to actually build an army like that, then transport it, then actually deploy and play with it, and do so without taking 5 hours, I feel pretty confident that your odds of running into something like that outside of an Apocalypse format with multiple players is close to zilch.

[Memento Of Prospero]

As a member of the church of Choom, is that not what the Omnissiah's great message is for? Here heretic, taste these burninating words of wisdom, learn them well! They go Chooooom! Choooom! Choooom! 

[jgascoine011]

And assuming Angron would fail the blind test, which isn't too high a chance.

 

1d4Chan does a good summary of him against other Primarchs, but forgets that Strikedown doesn't affect initiative anymore, so with that he should lose to:

Horus (duh)

Guilliman

Angron

Konrad (IF he can get H&R off)

Power-using Lorgar

 

 

Still high-end, just not unstoppable. Fulgrim might do alright for a round or two as well, until the concussive attacks slip through.

 

You're taking those blind tests at initiative 1 remember.

 

And even power-using lograr might not be too scary because he only gets access to 2 powers now...although i still think he will lose

 

Konrad will also be taking hit and run tests at initiative 1

[Reyner]

He only gets Legion Terminator Squads as Troops not Tyrants too :( he is pretty epic though in an Orbital Assault list.

[Raktra]

Blind tests come after the hit roll, so you'd be regular I.

 

Edit: And Lorgar still has 3/4 powers, with a :cuss-ton of re-rolls, so he's still an arse for any non-Horus to handle.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Raktra

[Fangbanger]

Yeah I've been making a few lists with him and orbital assault. Loads of deep strike termies as well as podding dreads... Yum yum

[jgascoine011]

Blind tests come after the hit roll, so you'd be regular I.

 

Edit: And Lorgar still has 3/4 powers, with a -ton of re-rolls, so he's still an arse for any non-Horus to handle.

 

 

Yea, but it would happen on the 2nd round of combat.

 

I.e. Turn 1 Primarch X attacks

Then Peruty, reducing Primarch X to I1.

 

Turn 2 Both Primarch attack at the same time.

But Perty would hit, causing the opponent to be blinded.

 

Turn 3, Primarch X is blinded and concussed.

 

Turn 4+ Primarch X is always blinded and concussed.

[khorneguy]

Iron  Warriors are possiblythe greatest legion at range, as is only right and proper, but if they opponent infiltrates or pods in and gets up close, you're going to get mauled in close combat. The units which best take advantage of their superiority at range tend to get squished easily in combat.

Yes Iron Warriors are very strong, but like all legions they have their strengths and weaknesses

[Hesh Kadesh]

One drawback however is that if its in turn 1, all of your opponents anti air is still functional

If it is a Deredeo or Mortis, if you go first, it isn't able to Skyfire intercept, or you could simply avoid its narrow Intercept Arc (straight forwards, 45 degree either sode of that mark), DS, Drop unit and assault turn 2, taking S8 Sunder Shots on the AV13 5+ Save vehicle the next turn.

 

Other antiair; i doubt anyone is runninf a Praetor, so that is pretty much it. Maybe a Mastodon when that is released.

[Charlo]

 

One drawback however is that if its in turn 1, all of your opponents anti air is still functional

If it is a Deredeo or Mortis, if you go first, it isn't able to Skyfire intercept, or you could simply avoid its narrow Intercept Arc (straight forwards, 45 degree either sode of that mark), DS, Drop unit and assault turn 2, taking S8 Sunder Shots on the AV13 5+ Save vehicle the next turn.

 

Other antiair; i doubt anyone is runninf a Praetor, so that is pretty much it. Maybe a Mastodon when that is released.

Exactly!

 

Quite liking this idea. I'm thinking of adding in a Leviathan with Grav, Drill, Phosphex and Choom in a pod to give me some more teeth turn one. Plus that Grav cannon will just dislodge anything in cover/ the contents of a cracked Spartan. Drill provides more anti AV support!

[Fangbanger]

I've tried to include the leviathan however with him and perty, that's nearly 1000 points in 2 models, no where near worth it. The Levi dread is not that good

[Fangbanger]

Think this is how my 2500 is going to go, however might dump Perty and Siege breaker out for Golg and another unit with a sicaran and have the termies footslog

 

Thoughts?

 

+ HQ +

 

Damocles Command Rhino

 

Legion Centurion [Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Chainfist]

··Consul [siege Breaker]

 

+ Troops +

 

Legion Terminator Squad [Chainfist, 5x Legion Terminators, 3x Power Fist, Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon]

··Legion Terminator Sergeant [Power Fist]

 

Legion Terminator Squad [Chainfist, 4x Combi-Weapon, 5x Legion Terminators, Plasma Blaster, Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon]

··Legion Terminator Sergeant [Power Fist]

 

7 x Tyrant Siege Terminator Squad [2x Chainfist,

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter [battle Servitor Control, Ground-tracking Auguries, 3x Two Kraken penetrator heavy missiles]

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Iron Havoc Support Squad [5x Iron Havoc, 5x Missile Launcher (with Frag, Krak, & Flakk missiles)]

··Iron Havoc Sergeant [Augury Scanner, Missile Launcher (with Frag, Krak, & Flakk missiles)]

 

Legion Artillery Tank x 2

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [iV: Iron Warriors]

 

+ Lord of War +

 

The Primarch Perturabo [After Istvaan]

··Master of the Legion [Pride of the Legion]

 

++ Fortifications (Fortification) ++

 

+ Fortification +

 

Imperial Bunker [Comms relay]

Edited December 23, 2015 by Fangbanger

[Hesh Kadesh]

I've tried to include the leviathan however with him and perty, that's nearly 1000 points in 2 models, no where near worth it. The Levi dread is not that good

Nice analysis. Can you explain where exactly the issue is with that expense in two models? You can play a 23.5k game and unleash 4 Strength D blasts with immuneinity to haywire a turn for 750pts.

 

Anything that isn't matching that is substandard and rarely worth the points. Perturabo allowing a 1st turn gank of a combined autoarriving Dreadclaw, Scoring Siege Tyrant and cheap MSU Assault Terminators supported by Medusa battery, Damocles and a Deredeo, you are off to a very powerful tier 3 build, if not even tier 2 army.

[Fangbanger]

Yeah perty offers a lot, that's for sure. But him and a leviathan in a 2500 point list, come off it. Your point on a huge apocalypse game is mute really as we are discussing smaller lists. I don't think you can really compare a leviathan (or even 2 for the same points) to a Titan, or anything but other Titans as they are in a different sphere all together.

 

I think the leviathan has to perform too many roles which it can't do at smaller levels and for me there are other units I would rather take

Edited December 23, 2015 by Fangbanger

[Fangbanger]

ok so i thought i would break down my opinion and reasoning for you:

 

The levithan is too slow, too short ranged and because of this, too expensive for the job in hand. 

 

if you are looking at arming it with storm cannons, thudd guns do this better (being str8 with sunder), with more shots (asuming you are taking more than 1), for much less points and with very high durability

 

The graviton bombard... even shorter range, all but useless against vehicles and again if you want to take down multiple marines at once id rather go scorpious. much cheaper, much longer range and can keep him out of harms way. want something with a higher ap which is good against vehicles? 2 medussa will do just fine.

 

lastly its combat weapons. now you have to add a further 65 points to the cost for a pod. sure severing cut is nice but if its vehicles you are hunting why would you not take a standard dread with ccw/chain fist? ok you get a bit more survivability however contemptors are pretty durable themselves for less points.

 

for the points, i can kit out the army with 3 useful units that can tick all the boxes and do them better rather than one unit to take care of one roll in a very mediocre fashion 

 

i hope that is a better analysis for you

Edited December 23, 2015 by Fangbanger

[Hesh Kadesh]

Put the Leviathan in a pod. Gives him 3 ablative HP and an open topped thing to assault out of and shoot out of.

 

Havung spoke with FW via email, on three occasions, we have two emails saying houseruke as you see fit (in regards to giving Haywire) and one flatout saying 'it is most likely meant to have it given tge other grav weapons. It is something we houserule it to have, anyway and due to its cost, its not really broken. Shy of 400pts for that in a pod and it is as effective as it shoukd be for the cost of a Knight Titan. Still, that said, I also stand by for the purposes of tactics threads that 'until FAQ'd' so i leave it in your hands.

 

A scorpius isn't AP2, dossn't make difficult or dangerous terrain. That pays for itself.

 

I'd like to see these same 3 units whixh has the presence to just bully an enemy and mess withba gunline in the way that a leviathan does. You don't really need the cheap assault terminator squads, so that is 200pts saved at least.

 

If you are hunting vehicles I hope you have something better than a Dreadnought.

 

A single Legion Dread for 240pts is packinf two graviton guns and 4 Armourbane WS5 AP2 S10 attacks. Just over half the points, and more damaging. What can it do to infamtry? Not much.

 

A leviathan is packing a 4++, extra HP, extra armour, a One shot triple blast Poisoned 3+ AP3 weapon, (because it is as standard equip as the Aiolos), either a 6 Shot Ap3 weapon, or a blast AP2 weapon equivalent to a s6 weapon, with the potential for haywire if you rule it to have the same rule that nigh every Graviton weapon in 30k have (the others are Knight and Mechanicum).

 

A contemptor in a pod with similar is toting at around 305, maybe save some points elsewhere (ie shed the Havoc).

 

For 110 more points, you have a unit which can shoot and CC better than most other things.

 

I can see the points raised. And aside from either Titan Allies (in which case, No PotL iirc) or shelving Perty for a Warhound, or running dual Typhons, there will be substandard options.

 

Plus, unless Primarchs do not like going face to face with a 4HP monstrosity with a 4++ with the ability to deal 3 S10 ap2 attacks which can deal a further potential D3 wounds.

 

And Mechanicum beasties are a notorious problem for Legion forces who otherwise lack the ID weapons or mass high strength shooting in an otherwise TAC list.

[Fangbanger]

It's the range of it that is its biggest downfall, people can just stay away from it. Failing that it can be easily bogged down and tied up with mediocre units.

 

I've seen it in the field and I am not sold. Maybe there was an error with the grav, however why would it state it uses 3d6 to pen when grav is haywire? Emails from forgeworld are hit and miss as we all know so as far as I'm concerned unless it's a document or book entry it is as it is.

 

Contemptors with armourbane are brutal at taking down veicles make no mistake. I'm also quite sure a large majority of them could handle it however the main question is, what are you doing with your primarch near it anyway.

 

It's not mobile enough to be a huge threat in my opinion

[Hesh Kadesh]

Doesn't need to stay away from. Put it on an objective. He denies, and is hard to shift. That's a swing of 3 points, 6 if you can cap it with one of those Deep Striking Rocket Vomit Squads that Iron Warriors are so keen to bring.

 

That way, sure, it's 1/4 of the army, but it's a swing of 6pts. No enemy can come close to that squad without eating a whole bucketful of missiles, phosphex and grav, or facing a half dozen power/chain fists and a super fist to deter those filthy multiwound peasants.

[SkimaskMohawk]

The short range is mitigated by dropping it in the middle of the enemy's lines (so to speak, you usually want it more in their back lines). You get to eat through their army and cause a whole lot of disruption that allows for the rest of your army to advance and position with less threat.

 

You can hunt 2+ armour with phosphex, fist, melta and grav; or AV with melta fists; or 3+ armour with two storm cannons. Even with the cannons you can be a nuisance if you charge that 20 man blob; you're av 13 with a 4++ so the only marginal threat is melta bombs, on top of that your native S 8 takes away the apothecary's (if they have one) benefit.

 

Lots of potential and once you're in your opponents lines they have to scramble to deal with it 

[Fangbanger]

You both have some good points there. I think I will still get one and try it out as I love the model and everyone seems to have a hard on over it at the mo so maybe I'm wrong. Only downside there's not really anything I want to take out to replace him with though....

 

Hmmm... Tis the season for list building

[Gorgoff]

The short range is mitigated by dropping it in the middle of the enemy's lines (so to speak, you usually want it more in their back lines). You get to eat through their army and cause a whole lot of disruption that allows for the rest of your army to advance and position with less threat.

 

You can hunt 2+ armour with phosphex, fist, melta and grav; or AV with melta fists; or 3+ armour with two storm cannons. Even with the cannons you can be a nuisance if you charge that 20 man blob; you're av 13 with a 4++ so the only marginal threat is melta bombs, on top of that your native S 8 takes away the apothecary's (if they have one) benefit.

 

Lots of potential and once you're in your opponents lines they have to scramble to deal with it

 

... and it looks awesome.

[Charlo]

Glad to see some Leviathan love here.

 

I'm super tempted to do a double Grav for pure poops and gigs. You'll destroy whatever you look at when you land but then getting tied in combat with a squad won't be very fun...

[Charlo]

Okay here we go...

 

+++ IRON WINGS (2500pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2500pts) ++

 

+ HQ (220pts) +

 

Damocles Command Rhino (100pts)

 

Legion Centurion (120pts) [Artificer Armour, Boarding Shield, Power Weapon, Rad Grenades]

····Consul [Forge Lord]

 

+ Troops (895pts) +

 

Tyrant Siege Terminator Squad (300pts) [Chainfist, 4x Tyrant Terminator]

 

Tyrant Siege Terminator Squad (300pts) [Chainfist, 4x Tyrant Terminator]

 

Tyrant Siege Terminator Squad (295pts) [4x Tyrant Terminator]

 

+ Fast Attack (185pts) +

 

Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter (185pts) [2x Two Kraken penetrator heavy missiles]

 

+ Heavy Support (710pts) +

 

Legion Caestus Assault Ram (305pts)

 

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon (405pts)

····Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Armoured Ceramite, Grav-flux Bombard, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod, Leviathan Siege Drill, Phosphex Discharger, 2x Twin-linked Volkite Caliver]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [iV: Iron Warriors]

 

+ Lord of War (490pts) +

 

The Primarch Perturabo (490pts) [After Istvaan]

····Master of the Legion [Pride of the Legion]

 

Forge Lord seemed like the coolest centurion as I needed a compulsory HQ, boarding shield provides charge defence incase the ride gets blown up and the Tyrants, Pert and Forgey are stranded. Rad grenades make the death star even more so. Plus he's 50 points cheaper than Golg as with Pride I don't really need him. Alternative is a Siege breaker in Term armour and a couple of bombs attached to a Deep striking squad to spread the tank Hunter around more.

 

Plan would be Leviathan Pods in as a crazy distraction with 3 5++ ablative hull points to go through, Damocles is also on the board. With a bit of luck the flyers will come in and start wrecking face. Other Tyrants will deep strike or deploy on the ground if necessary.

 

It's low model count but the plan is just open them up ASAP. If all goes well and they have a death star the Lightning will open up the transport, and it's contents then get Magna Meltad and a million other bombardments where applicable.

 

This list basically represents the IW fighting a losing battle so Pert just goes ":cuss it", grabs his best missile vomit and proceeds to hammer things up close and from orbit.

 

EDIT:

 

And alternative to one of the Tyrant squads would be a ten man Vet squad. Two webbed heavy bolters, Melta bombs, a couple of power weapons and serpentas with Artificer on the sarge. This would give me some anti horde and then flexibility with thier tactic. Defensive would be Sniper or I can grab outflank, use first turn reserves and put them somewhere cool.

 

Purely because I'm list hammering, could also be some terminators (6/7) with a few chargers, chain Fists and a grenade harness to deep strike in. Furious charge in the enemy deployment zone sounds very fun.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Charlo

[Lord Asvaldir]

Overall looks pretty good, looks like a fun really aggressive list. I'm wondering though why are you taking the ceatus? It's awfully expensive for just a magna melta cannon, there's much better ways to get ap2 blasts, which you already have anyway from leviathan. You could drop the ceatus and get more bodies in the list, maybe add in another terminator squad.

 

Also siege breaker seems like a much better choice for your list, tank hunters for a terminator unit is very useful. Plus if you want another ap2 blast you could throw some phosphex on him.

[Charlo]

It's more to take advantage of the first turn reserves. It means that most of the time that thing is going to come on with Pert and some terms ready to wreck face. The melta cannon is a nice bonus that fits the theme!

 

Let's me get a good transport where, if I go second, will only need to weather a single turn of shooting.

 

It's also to do with I have a currently red Caestus ready to paint and Spartans are a little boring :P

 

The breaker is cool, yeah. It's a shame paying for Wrecker when you get it innately though. I may even just get a barebones centurion to beef up a squad with some wounds and fill the HQ slot. That let's me make the Lightning a bit better with BS5 and Tank Hunter.

 

If I do want to pimp out the HQ I can get some points by losing the ceramite and Phosphex on the Leviathan, which might not be a bad shout - meta dependant.