[HH1.0] Iron Warriors Tactics

[Nehekhare]

Granted the Heavy 5 from their bolters is good and is pinning

 

olympia pattern bolt cannon: S5 AP4 heavy 5 pinning @BS4 = 0,74 dead marines

mauler pattern bolt cannon: S6 AP3 heavy 3 pinning @BS4 = 1,6 dead marines

 

...somehow Perturabo's technical genius managed to reduce effectivity by more than 50%.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Nehekhare

[Caillum]

Only Perturabo can take the Domitar-Ferrum as a "Command Squad" of sorts, joining them in the process. As for any other Independent Character - they can't join units of Monstrous Creatures, so no Vigilator Scoutflank.

 

Edit: Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong! How did I miss that!?

Edited March 12, 2016 by Caillum

[TompiQ]

Wrong, they have a rule which allows them to be joined by a single character with the Legiones Astartes (Iron Warriors) rule. 

[Nehekhare]

Only Perturabo can take the Domitar-Ferrum as a "Command Squad" of sorts, joining them in the process. As for any other Independent Character - they can't join units of Monstrous Creatures, so no Vigilator Scoutflank.

 

wrong.

 

Moving Bulkward:

"units of Domitar-Ferrum class Battle-automata may be joined by a single independent character with the Legiones astartes (Iron Warriors) rule"

 

If you buy them for Perturabo, they must be 4+ strong (1275pts minimum together) and get +1 WS/Ld/I or 6+ FnP (WS5 propably being the best choice).

 

If you join them to a Vigilator, they get outflank, yes.

But why on olympia wouldn't you just buy a praevian (choosing scout as legion inductees special rule effect) and DOUBLE the amount of castellax instead???

[Caillum]

Completely blind obviously. :/ In hindsight, I vaguely remember that part of the Moving Bulwark rule.

 

Yeah, unless running them with Perturabo in a Primarch's Chosen list, it requires a stupendously high point game.

 

If I had Perturabo and an Iron Warriors army, I'd definitely get some, but they are limiting...

[Flint13]

 

Granted the Heavy 5 from their bolters is good and is pinning

 

 

olympia pattern bolt cannon: S5 AP4 heavy 5 pinning @BS4 = 0,74 dead marines

mauler pattern bolt cannon: S6 AP3 heavy 3 pinning @BS4 = 1,6 dead marines

 

...somehow Perturabo's technical genius managed to reduce effectivity by more than 50%.

If you look at their effectiveness just vs other legions. Bros seem to forget the game is more than a 3+ save clank-off now.

 

The fluff even mentions that Perturabo developed the Olympia pattern cannon to be easier to mass produce and maintain so the legion armories could churn them out while on crusade. I doubt they were developed with killing legionaries in mind.

 

 

 

Moving Bulkward:

"units of Domitar-Ferrum class Battle-automata may be joined by a single independent character with the Legiones astartes (Iron Warriors) rule"

 

 

If you buy them for Perturabo, they must be 4+ strong (1275pts minimum together) and get +1 WS/Ld/I or 6+ FnP (WS5 propably being the best choice).

 

If you join them to a Vigilator, they get outflank, yes.

But why on olympia wouldn't you just buy a praevian (choosing scout as legion inductees special rule effect) and DOUBLE the amount of castellax instead???

Iron Circle bots would annihilate x2 their points cost in Castellax. Scissors constantly looks like it will underperform if you only compare it to rock :/

 

Also, the models are awesome.

[Raktra]

For a melee brick unit, failing Arlatax I'd happily have the Circle. Being average speed doesn't matter much if you're not dying on the way in.

 

"But D weapons!" Kill 'em first. It's not stopped other MCs being taken before.

[Flint13]

Hehe, Arlatax are a bit of an unfair comparison though, 'specially for a Dark Mech girl like me :D

[Raktra]

Well they are currently my favourite little hate pumpkins. But that's by-the-by.

[NonExistentOne]

 

 

Granted the Heavy 5 from their bolters is good and is pinning

 

olympia pattern bolt cannon: S5 AP4 heavy 5 pinning @BS4 = 0,74 dead marines

mauler pattern bolt cannon: S6 AP3 heavy 3 pinning @BS4 = 1,6 dead marines

 

...somehow Perturabo's technical genius managed to reduce effectivity by more than 50%.

If you look at their effectiveness just vs other legions. Bros seem to forget the game is more than a 3+ save clank-off now.

 

The fluff even mentions that Perturabo developed the Olympia pattern cannon to be easier to mass produce and maintain so the legion armories could churn them out while on crusade. I doubt they were developed with killing legionaries in mind.

 

 

Didn't Perturabo develop the Iron Circle after he almost got done in by marines?

 

Crunch wise, it looks like FW made a conscious decision to shore up Perty's major weakness: Liable to get tarpitted due to his 4 attacks. BUT, since this 1000+ retinue has to footslog across the board, why wouldn't your opponent just body them using a fearless levy or two to clog them for eternity (HAHA pinning so useful). It's just not viable when you have to sink so many bloody points into something that will rarely make a fraction of its investment back (PPM and I'm sure the sick skrilla FW will charge for each).

Edited March 12, 2016 by NonExistentOne

[Flint13]

 

Didn't Perturabo develop the Iron Circle after he almost got done in by marines?

 

 

 

After the bridge of the Iron Blood almost got stormed by Fists in the battle of Phall if I recall correctly. 

 

Again, if you compare the Iron Circle just to the paper for its rock, of course they won't look too hot.

 

I mean... if you get them stuck in a full strength cultist mob, that isn't really the models' fault, man. I'm not trying to argue they are the best units you have access to, but they are awesome and entirely usable. 

[NonExistentOne]

 

 

Didn't Perturabo develop the Iron Circle after he almost got done in by marines?

 

 

 

After the bridge of the Iron Blood almost got stormed by Fists in the battle of Phall if I recall correctly. 

 

Again, if you compare the Iron Circle just to the paper for its rock, of course they won't look too hot.

 

I mean... if you get them stuck in a full strength cultist mob, that isn't really the models' fault, man. I'm not trying to argue they are the best units you have access to, but they are awesome and entirely usable. 

 

 

Hahaha so the genius Perturabo, with his superb technical acumen, almost dies to MEQs but outfits his primo bodyguards to be better equipped to handle GEQs. And in the setting where MEQ vs MEQ has been at the forefront of the conflict for a few years. How is this justified logically from the fluff perspective?

 

I've tried to justify them endlessly. How can you not with these badass models?

 

What they are being measured against: They are slotted against the universally acclaimed Quad Mortars and terminators who score and mesh extremely well with our Primarch's buffs. What is their role? Essentially a walking Abeyant to keep our VIPs from dying and deterring charges. Wouldn't a Spartan be more ideal? What other unit would you compare them to that makes them look attractive?

 

The fact that you have to sink this many point (which greatly reduces the amount of support in your army) and that they have to footslog, makes running into tarpits that much more inevitable. No potato commander will march his deathstar against this if he can tie it up easily or just straight up avoid them. You'll spend the majority of the time taking pot shots with the Olympia bolter desperately trying to get into charge range.

 

They are probably better off keeping that   good-for-nothing-VP-gifting Warsmith alive. But let's be real about the bottom line: These are Perturabo's chosen bodyguard and they flat out handicap what he brings (And because he's second to Horus cost-wise that is even more severe). They don't shore up his weaknesses and add what he already had covered for the most part (Thunderclapping attacks and survivability).

 

http://i.imgur.com/uJEpOzq.jpg

 

EDIT: As a side rant, can we mention that Mortarion and the hated Dorn also had trouble with tarpits...BUT GOT REAPING BLOW TO CORRECT THIS?!

 

Huge disconnect from the fluff side of things. Perturabo is gifted the Forgebreaker and removes all the bling (lolwut Blind now?) that the pansy Fulgrim put on there...TO BE MADE WORSE.

Edited March 12, 2016 by NonExistentOne

[The Lord of Iron]

For whatever reason forgewrold seems to have no clue about what they want perturabo and the iron warriors to do. I'm not saying that we are bad just not as focused as some of the other legions are. We have rules that want us to play in several different way at once, two special units in the same slot and rules that out right work against each other. 

[Flint13]

 

Hahaha so the genius Perturabo, in his technical acumen, almost dies to MEQs but outfits his primo bodyguards to be better equipped to handle GEQs. And in the setting where MEQ vs MEQ has been at the forefront of the conflict for a few years. How is this justified logically from the fluff perspective?

 

 

Isn't horde control what you just complained about as the Iron Circle's weakenss? I imagine the giant hammers of doom are the all the anti-marine Perturabo thought they'd need. Or anti-terminator or anti dreadnought... what giant hammers don't do is horde control. So the Olympia cannons seem like a pretty dees idea. Especially given that their original purpose wasn't to be super killy death machines. That's just a helpful side benefit to being massive bulwarks just as tough as Pert himself, that will stand between him and things he doesn't want to shoot him.

 

Past that, you seem pretty intent on hating them, so I doubt imma change your mind. So let's move it on along then. This horse won't get any deader. 

[The Lord of Iron]

 

 

Hahaha so the genius Perturabo, in his technical acumen, almost dies to MEQs but outfits his primo bodyguards to be better equipped to handle GEQs. And in the setting where MEQ vs MEQ has been at the forefront of the conflict for a few years. How is this justified logically from the fluff perspective?

 

 

Isn't horde control what you just complained about as the Iron Circle's weakenss? I imagine the giant hammers of doom are the all the anti-marine Perturabo thought they'd need. Or anti-terminator or anti dreadnought... what giant hammers don't do is horde control. So the Olympia cannons seem like a pretty dees idea. Especially given that their original purpose wasn't to be super killy death machines. That's just a helpful side benefit to being massive bulwarks just as tough as Pert himself, that will stand between him and things he doesn't want to shoot him.

 

Past that, you seem pretty intent on hating them, so I doubt imma change your mind. So let's move it on along then. This horse won't get any deader. 

 

 

Oh i beg to differ. Just need to know how to beat it. 

[NonExistentOne]

 

Isn't horde control what you just complained about as the Iron Circle's weakenss? I imagine the giant hammers of doom are the all the anti-marine Perturabo thought they'd need. Or anti-terminator or anti dreadnought... what giant hammers don't do is horde control. So the Olympia cannons seem like a pretty dees idea. Especially given that their original purpose wasn't to be super killy death machines. That's just a helpful side benefit to being massive bulwarks just as tough as Pert himself, that will stand between him and things he doesn't want to shoot him.

 

Past that, you seem pretty intent on hating them, so I doubt imma change your mind. So let's move it on along then. This horse won't get any deader. 

 

 

Hahaha on the contrary, I think I speak for everyone when I say that we want you to change our minds about them. If I had to compare them to a car, it would be the DeLorean. Hey they're iconic and looks sexy as hell but... cost more than a Porsche 911 for arguably worst driving experience.

[Charlo]

Except the porsche won't let you have a rerollable 3++ against the ever-present Typhon/ Medusas

[NonExistentOne]

Except the porsche won't let you have a rerollable 3++ against the ever-present Typhon/ Medusas

 

Tormentor or Iron Circle. Pick one.

[Shaolin_Monkey]

Ive always pictured them as being used in Zone Mortalis style scenarios. Like boarding actions and the defense of them and the like.

In this they seem to really fit and just be loads of fun. Assuming that is that they are able to actually be taken in ZM, was there clarity on the base size or are we just to assume they are the same as the Domitar?

 

I mean if you trying to assault down a narrow corridor and around the corner comes this big arse robot with a shield and hammer and almost fills the hallway, youre gonna soil your Astartes brand underoos regardless of the AP of the gun. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

 

Isn't horde control what you just complained about as the Iron Circle's weakenss? I imagine the giant hammers of doom are the all the anti-marine Perturabo thought they'd need. Or anti-terminator or anti dreadnought... what giant hammers don't do is horde control. So the Olympia cannons seem like a pretty dees idea. Especially given that their original purpose wasn't to be super killy death machines. That's just a helpful side benefit to being massive bulwarks just as tough as Pert himself, that will stand between him and things he doesn't want to shoot him.

 

Past that, you seem pretty intent on hating them, so I doubt imma change your mind. So let's move it on along then. This horse won't get any deader.

 

Hahaha on the contrary, I think I speak for everyone when I say that we want you to change our minds about them. If I had to compare them to a car, it would be the DeLorean. Hey they're iconic and looks sexy as hell but... cost more than a Porsche 911 for arguably worst driving experience.

Not being Best in Slot is hardly a 'problem'.

[NonExistentOne]

 

Not being Best in Slot is hardly a 'problem'.

 

 

The last time this happened, Perturabo invoked decimation hahaha

 

But real talk, you mean to tell me that there is a time and place to take Whirlwinds over Medusae in a 0-1 Artillery Squadron? Domitar over Arlatax?

 

Tell me you wouldn't just stick Perty in Dreadclaw, teleport terminators to him and call it a day.

[Flint13]

 

But real talk, you mean to tell me that there is a time and place to take Whirlwinds over Medusae in a 0-1 Artillery Squadron? 

 

 

When you don't have 155pts free? Whirlwinds are less than half of that.

 

Or because you don't have a Medusa model and/or prefer the whirlwind.

 

Or because you would prefer 2 blast templates to the one str 10? Again, there's that horde control. 

Edited March 13, 2016 by Flint13

[DietOfLiquor]

They're still good looking models. Wouldn't even care about foot slogging them with a Warsmith to get repaired along the way. Pair that with some back up artillery, shouldn't be bad at all hopefully. 

[NonExistentOne]

When you don't have 155pts free? Whirlwinds are less than half of that.

 

Or because you don't have a Medusa model and/or prefer the whirlwind.

 

Or because you would prefer 2 blast templates to the one str 10? Again, there's that horde control. 

 

 

Haha in that case I would just take a Scorpius, which has a subjectively better look and can threaten most things on the board without sacrificing a 0-1 Squadron.

 

So merits of the Iron Circle, to break the cycle? Yeah that VP-coughing Warsmith could use the extra defense. A Forgelord could probably do it better. The Vigilator suggestion would helping with the extra movement alleviates a glaring weaknesses (But I have a hard time justifying a sneaky type in this legion).

 

ZM? They would be pretty unstoppable as the ultimate breachers but alas, I think they are on 60mm bases.

[Hesh Kadesh]

I prefer not to break the cycle, the discussion is good.

 

If you take a Scorpius for 50% extra than a Whirlwind and you're facing Solar Auxilia, or Imperialis Militia, you're doing yourself out of a favour.

 

I'd rather take 2 Whirlwinds rather than a Medusa.

 

The Scorpius IMO looks ridiculous; I use the Hunter model for it.