[HH1.0] Tactica Chainaxe: World Eaters

[Hesh Kadesh]

Not very. They're big and slow, and get caught in terrain. One of the few effective uses for a Spartan is going balls to the wall with as many World Eater tacticals. But that's really, really boring to play. 

[LongGone]

Boring. Or is it totally :cussing awesome sending that bidness hey diddle diddle, straight up the middle? Amount of salt, mileage and cents may vary.

 

To be fair, the footslogging qualifier of 'not very' will apply to blobs from most legions. A bit like a sledgehammer - hard to swing, but got-damn can it make a beautiful mess o' things.

 

Some (wo)men just want to see the world burn.

[temneb]

I've been debating using scouting land raiders for delivery vs Spartans.

 

List is basically

 

3 tac's in rhinos

2 rampages with dedicated land raiders Angron and Khârn go here.

2 venerator's to knock super heavies about.

 

Forces people to choose between in your face land raiders or venerator's in first turn.

 

Thoughts?

[Caillum]

I've been debating using scouting land raiders for delivery vs Spartans.

The issue is that the Land Raider Proteus with an Explorator Augury Web (which I'm assuming is what you're suggesting) is not an Assault Vehicle. Not ideal for an Assault-based army. Also, it only has an 8-model capacity, so it limits how much is moving up the board.

[Slips]

 

I've been debating using scouting land raiders for delivery vs Spartans.

The issue is that the Land Raider Proteus with an Explorator Augury Web (which I'm assuming is what you're suggesting) is not an Assault Vehicle. Not ideal for an Assault-based army. Also, it only has an 8-model capacity, so it limits how much is moving up the board.

 

Actually, Rampagers have Scout :p

[Caillum]

Ooh! I forgot about that! :) Nice.

[Terminus]

I've been debating using scouting land raiders for delivery vs Spartans.

 

List is basically

 

3 tac's in rhinos

2 rampages with dedicated land raiders Angron and Khârn go here.

2 venerator's to knock super heavies about.

 

Forces people to choose between in your face land raiders or venerator's in first turn.

 

Thoughts?

That actually seems pretty scary. Add a deredeo or fire raptor to cover the field from fliers or pop transports, and you're looking good!

 

 

Not very. They're big and slow, and get caught in terrain. One of the few effective uses for a Spartan is going balls to the wall with as many World Eater tacticals. But that's really, really boring to play. 

Why the hatred of Spartans? I mean yeah, it's like 350 points once you equip it with all the goods, but it's 1.5 land raiders worth of hull points with 2.5 the capacity.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Terminus

[Hesh Kadesh]

It isn't just 350pts, it is invariably 350-400pts of Assault Terminators or with it, and possibly a murderface HQ of 150pts plus and maybe another supporting HQ like a Chaplain, or Forge Lord, maybe even a Primarch.

 

Awesome, but that is between 700 and 1200pts. Let us average it at 1000pts.

 

At 2000pts, that is just under half of your list. 350pts of that is getting a second turn charge. As an assault list, if Terminators it is usually a Cataphractii, so no running. And a Spartan is 5HP not 6.

 

That same spartan is killed dead by Graviton Rapiers. Unless you happen to play Death Guard (The Reaping) or Salamanders (Covenant of Fire), those units contained within are then walking through 6 different overlapping fields of difficult and dangerous terrain. As each blast is its own different piece, every template which a model moves over during emergency disembarkation is a test. Lets be nice and call it 3, and 12 models means 6 failed tests, and 1 failed save. It's not much, but it is a dead terminator.

 

If the unit got to move, it is now 18" forward, but if it didn't, your 700-1200pt unit is stuck just outside its own deploment zone with 1d6 move, maybe 2d6 if not cataphractii. Worst case scenario that unit moves 21" in 6 turns with shooting that consists of a couple of reaper autocannons, or iliastus cannons for BA/IF.

 

It is a good use of 50% of an army, no?

 

Plus, it is about as boring as you can get to play. Move forwards, hope you don't die to Gravitons, and kill a unit/force it to fall back, hope you don't get plasma'd or meltad to death, or tank shocked, and if lucky by turn 6 make your way to an objective to secure or deny.

[Terminus]

Not everyone starts their list with 420 points of graviton rapiers, but point taken.

[Slips]

Its essentially a Meta thing / Rock-Papers-Scissors.

 

Meta filled with Spartan DeathTaxis? Bring out the Grav Rapiers.

 

Grav Rapiers shutting your DeathTaxi down? Move away from them.

 

Nothing worthwhile to target with 420 Points across 6 Grav Rapiers anymore? Gone from the list to make room for something else to deal with a new problem.

 

Grav Rapiers are gone? BRING OUT THE DEATHTAXI!

 

Rinse and Repeat :p

[Hesh Kadesh]

Indeed. But movement wins games (well, holding objectives wins games, but movement gets you there). Difficult Terraining a unit for the battle can stop the movement effectively and can win the game for you.

 

Without a Spartan or other powerful tank like a Typhon, it loses effectiveness, or rather point for point power (ie efficiency), but it is haywire. It can still kill a predator or sicaran, or achilles alpha. It is just pay day when a Spartan turns up.

 

Same for a Knight. Combine with one or two Twin Grav Dreads in a pod, and split the Rapiers, that is 10 Haywire shots a turn. A Knight has a 4++ against 3 shots, leaving 7 other shots vs 6 HP.

 

That is around 900pts and one shots Knights. Until facing 4 or more Knights, it honestly suffices.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Yah but then Graviton Rapiers become the standard 'boring' play. It's a Catch 22. 

 

I say let's all break out some Caestus Assault Rams and laugh at the Graviton Rapiers and thrust our erect dropships into their faces!

 

Has anyone thought about how they'd kit up the new box for a WE list? I'm keen to see suggestions. 

 

Tactical blob & Veterans?

[LongGone]

Simple. Two kits equals three blobs.

 

That being said, not a fan of the Crouching Tiger, Hidden Astartes legs, or the very odd build the two preator/consul models come in. The breakdown of parts for those two leaves me scratching my noggin. Once I'm back in the states and can put my Master Plan into action, I'll most likely avoid the BaC set despite the savings.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Simple. Two kits equals three blobs.

 

That being said, not a fan of the Crouching Tiger, Hidden Astartes legs, or the very odd build the two preator/consul models come in. The breakdown of parts for those two leaves me scratching my noggin. Once I'm back in the states and can put my Master Plan into action, I'll most likely avoid the BaC set despite the savings.

 

That was my plan, why I think the box suits WE cos of the troop tax for Beserker Assault. 

 

I have a few things unopened/unpainted to soup my list up (in my thread too) incase anyone can think of a good plan involving 2x box and these:

 

Xiphon

Spartan

Deredeo

Lightning

Vorax

Glaive

[Hesh Kadesh]

Deredeo, Xiphon, Lightning, and Vorax are all very nice units with World Eaters. Glaive needs 2400pts to use. Don't know if you'd want to go that far. 

[Flint13]

I really want to see a WE Praevian with a Vorax bodyguard.

 

Those would be nasty as hell in a Berzeker assault :D

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I really want to see a WE Praevian with a Vorax bodyguard.

 

Those would be nasty as hell in a Berzeker assault

 

I am entirely set on taking Vorax with my list now Finally has a use for the blighters!

 

I've even done a WE test model in anticipation of opening my BaC boxes. 

 

http://i.imgur.com/xrGKW8y.jpg

 

I see Rampagers and Butchers aren't that great? Also further question how are the Caedere weapons, they seem a bit meh for the cost. I really want to give an apothecary twin falax blades cos that would be rule of cool but I'm unsure on the efficacy. 

 

Now to order 60 chainaxes and several FW WE Upgrade packs...RIP Wallet. 

Edited November 19, 2015 by The God-Potato of Mankind

[Slips]

Butchers arent that great? Never have you been more wrong.

[GreyCrow]

Very interesting points about the Spartan and the anti-spartan stragies ! It makes me think that they aren't really worth it at low points games because the ease at which they can be countered and the fact that they take up half the list.

 

It's true that at 5000 points, these Rapiers won't really be a problem. "Oh, you've downed my Spartan ? Well, too bad I've got 3000 points of other threats that you have to take care too !"

[Memento Of Prospero]

Rapiers are very sensitive to fast units and drop pods or any kind of deepstriking units. Nothing stops you from holding in reserves if you are stuck going first or hiding if going second

[GreyCrow]

Good points too WolfPack. It's better to lose a turn than to lose a unit.

 

By the way, wouldn't Rampager squads be a good escort for Angron, as in 8 in a Land Raider Phobos with Armoured Ceramite ? That way you kind of circumvent the Rapier Batteries and gain 1 turn of movement. You also circumvent the augury scanners because IIRC it's only preventing Infiltrating and not Scout. So, they might blow up the Land Raider, but you'll already be in their lines, especially if you have the first turn.

 

It's a good idea, right ? :D Especially considering that 8 is the number of Khorne... dun dun dun. Sadly, they don't have the same target as Angron in terms of loadout.

 

Out of curiosity, because I don't have my rulebook at hand : do the Spartan has to take dangerous terrain tests for every individual blast or once per movement ? If it is, going for dozer blades sounds like a sound investment :p

 

Also, there's no shame in using cover to advance. If Night fighting is on and behing ruins, it takes 18 Grav shots to deal with a Spartan in a single turn, assuming no Immobilized result is rolled for penetrating hits. Under 4+ cover, it takes 12 Grav Shots to down a Spartan, and if I was ferrying a beatstick melee unit of 10 Terminators with a Primarch, I'd definitely take the time to move Cruising Speed + Smoke Launchers. Don't mind firing the Quad Lascannons if it endangers delivering 800 points where they need to be.

 

To mitigate immobilized results, I would also go with Auxiliary Drive and Dozer Blades. So, it's a 355 total investment, but well worth it to bring the Primarch and his Eilte Retinue safely.

With all this gear, it's going to take 9 Grav Rapiers to even have a change knocking the Spartan down reliably, and even then it's not highly probable. On statistical average, assuming all hit, we have 7,5 hits (including 1.5 penetrating hits, which yield 0.25 immobilized results down to 0.125 of successful after auxiliary drive), which yield 3.75 hull points after a 4+ cover, down to 2.5 hull points if under a 3+ cover.

 

So, assuming that the 4+ is the save going on, the Spartan has 1.25 HP remaining and will take 9 difficult terrain tests. Out of these, 0.25 will fail yielding in one extra hull point down, and 0.125 will successfully immobilize after auxiliary drive. In any case, the Spartan will still be alive. And we're talking about 675 points investment in 9 Rapiers which will lose a lot of mileage against anything else compared to other options.

Edited November 20, 2015 by GreyCrow

[depthcharge12]

Has anyone felt crazy enough to do 3 20 man true grit squads in a berserker list?

 

I know it would struggle in a meta with Scorpii and medusas, but I think it could counter drop lists pretty well and be a big distraction. Drop a couple of dreads in pods behind enemy lines and do a hammer and anvil sort of thing :) just to break up the monotony of regular berserker lists.

[GreyCrow]

Has anyone felt crazy enough to do 3 20 man true grit squads in a berserker list?

 

I know it would struggle in a meta with Scorpii and medusas, but I think it could counter drop lists pretty well and be a big distraction. Drop a couple of dreads in pods behind enemy lines and do a hammer and anvil sort of thing just to break up the monotony of regular berserker lists.

 

Very interesting idea :D Although I would go for simple BP+CCW to keep the costs down. You'll be saving 120 points doing that, which might not seem much, but might as well. After all, there's no numerical advantage in clubbing the opponent to death with the Bolter's stock is it ? :p

In a pure optimization spirit though I'd go for Assault Squads, simply because they'll move 16" in the first turn after running, which is 6" extra over the basic tactical squad, at 150 points over. But I really have a feeling that these extra 6" might be the difference between a dead squad and a live one, especially when grabbing cover. That's 1200 points in basic Troops though, so I wouldn't put it under 3000, then gear all the support as distraction units as well as units able to kill tanks. You only need one of these squads to go in melee to start sweeping the entire board.

[LongGone]

Has anyone felt crazy enough to do 3 20 man true grit squads in a berserker list?

 

I know it would struggle in a meta with Scorpii and medusas, but I think it could counter drop lists pretty well and be a big distraction. Drop a couple of dreads in pods behind enemy lines and do a hammer and anvil sort of thing :) just to break up the monotony of regular berserker lists.

So I have this Master Plan that will take effect as soon as I rotate back to the states. It involves a costly number of correctly modelled chain axe-wielding crazies. I'm not interested in winning so much, and I know its a less than competitive build for a less than competitive legion. Doesn't really matter to me.

 

Like I said earlier, some (wo)men just want to see the world burn.

[Sheesh Mode]

 

So I have this Master Plan that will take effect as soon as I rotate back to the states. It involves a costly number of correctly modelled chain axe-wielding crazies. I'm not interested in winning so much, and I know its a less than competitive build for a less than competitive legion. Doesn't really matter to me.

That view may change as Militia Cults armies become more pervasive. It appears, given their equipment, World Eaters are designed to slaughter horde armies such as those fielded by Orks, and Militia. I really look forward to militia lists that upset the current meta, and foil Alpharius plans through sheer volume.