[HH1.0] Tactica Chainaxe: World Eaters

[Memento Of Prospero]

Not to sound extremely cynical or negative, but the 45 arc is its total horizontal arc, meaning it has a 22.5 degree arc to its left and right. This coupled with e board that has proper line of sight blocking terrain on it means they are fairly bad at intercepting. If you angle inwards toward the important things, you expose your flanks, if not then something important may get alpha struck.

 

Deredeos can slightly get around the problem as their missile launcher is turret mounted, though that does open the debate to intercept's rule of needing line of sight to perform an intercept 

 

It won't do much damage to standard drop pod units. a mortis is best use as a flyer deterrant where terrain is not an issue. It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing.

[vladsimpaler]

I've been looking at a couple different lists and I realized that I had totally forgotten about the Kharibdyss- has anyone had any success with it? Or even used it?

 

On face value, it's super expensive as it's only 35 less than a stock Spartan.

 

But an Orbital Assault ROW with a base like so, and I'm thinking for a 2k game

 

Legion Praetor 165

Iron Halo

Paragon Blade

Digital Lasers

 

Legion Consul 85

Chaplain

 

2x Apothecaries w/Power Swords - 110

 

2x Tactical Squad 255

18x Marines (510)

Bolter, BP, CCW

Sergeant w/Artificier and Power Fist

 

2x Kharibdyss-520

 

It's expensive with a base of 1280, with a Praetor going in one unit and the Chaplain in the other.

 

Ideally, we multicharge (which loses rage but gives us a host of other benefits, and at least the unit with the Chaplain has hatred). I'm thinking the rest of the points could go into things like Red Butchers and Support Squads with grav and plasma weapons to take out things like Typhons and Spartans.

 

The Kharibdyss is really neat with the ability to really piss off your opponent since it can become a Flyer, and with 5 HP it won't be going down easily. Would love to hear your thoughts! Dreadclaws are certainly an option too.

 

 

As a side note, I think that Drop Pod lists have a real double-whammy. If your opponent goes first, he does nothing. Then if you drop down, you can choose to have your guys stay inside an AV12 bunker, so then the -next- turn your opponent has to deal with what are essentially void shields for all of your units.

Edited June 8, 2015 by vladsimpaler

[Hesh Kadesh]

Typhons require Venator. or Grav to take out. Spartans need Grav or tank Hunting Praevians. Av14 AC is still brutal on drop lists, which is why I like dual Grav blender legionnaughts Because its the only first turn Grav available.

[Flint13]

^^ I've found that after I've used a Venator it became a staple in most of my lists.

 

Grav weapons are pretty awesome since they laugh at flare shields and you can fit so many of them in. Those dual grav dreads are pretty damn handy too. But there's just something viscerally satisfying about drilling a giant neutron laser through a warhound Titan's face. The few times you stun-lock a super heavy that is prepared to gut your army, I think it paints them in a whole new light ^_^

 

Im starting to realize it's becoming a risky proposition though. As soon as an opponent knows what a Venator does, it's his first target with everything. And while they aren't completely neutered like rapiers and standard lascannons, they don't work spectacularly against flare shielded Spartans.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Flint13

[Hesh Kadesh]

It amuses as to how fragile a Warlord titan can be against the Venator considering how resilient it is to meltabomb attacks dreadnoughts and Grav.

 

But yes, it becomes threat number one; which is where cover comes in helpful, as unworldeatery as that seems. Another option is the Cerberus, which becomes better when you aren't wasting your only LoW slot on it.Still think it needs 2d3 shots. (although resilience is a temporary thing when you are facing 8 Strength D blasts a turn).

[vladsimpaler]

Typhons require Venator. or Grav to take out. Spartans need Grav or tank Hunting Praevians. Av14 AC is still brutal on drop lists, which is why I like dual Grav blender legionnaughts Because its the only first turn Grav available.

Hesh, you may find this list interesting since I found that dual Grav Blenders are the most cost effective grav option:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309170-world-eaters-2000-the-silver-bullets/

 

Has 3 "Blendernaughts", with 2 of them being Grav and the 3rd having 2 Plasma Blasters. I think that Dreadnoughts are a bit overcosted and the list suffers from that, but being WS/BS5 does help a little bit. Furthermore firing Typhons in your own deployment zone can get a bit...hairy.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2015 by vladsimpaler

[Flint13]

^^!ill definitely agree... Standard Contemptor dreads are costed to reflect their potential to sweep entire units in a game system where ATSKNF doesn't exist and Fearless is at a rare premium. Which doesn't throw them into the overpriced stratosphere, but can be pretty readily felt ^_^

 

But yeah, I was checking out an iron hands list in that Anzac event (the player guested on a recent episode of eye of horus) that went really Grav heavy with two double-grav dreads and three pair of grav rapiers. Did pretty well apparently.

[vladsimpaler]

^^!ill definitely agree... Standard Contemptor dreads are costed to reflect their potential to sweep entire units in a game system where ATSKNF doesn't exist and Fearless is at a rare premium. Which doesn't throw them into the overpriced stratosphere, but can be pretty readily felt

 

But yeah, I was checking out an iron hands list in that Anzac event (the player guested on a recent episode of eye of horus) that went really Grav heavy with two double-grav dreads and three pair of grav rapiers. Did pretty well apparently.

Funnily enough I've noticed the Aussies are really into 30k - probably because it's cheaper for them vis a vis normal 40k. And wow, that's a ton of grav but you really need it. If they chose AL instead they could've gotten Tank Hunters and removed every single armored vehicle in a list in one turn! 

[depthcharge12]

It amuses as to how fragile a Warlord titan can be against the Venator considering how resilient it is to meltabomb attacks dreadnoughts and Grav.

But yes, it becomes threat number one; which is where cover comes in helpful, as unworldeatery as that seems. Another option is the Cerberus, which becomes better when you aren't wasting your only LoW slot on it.Still think it needs 2d3 shots. (although resilience is a temporary thing when you are facing 8 Strength D blasts a turn).

The only way it could become more World Eater-y is if they had rules for boarding and using Ursus Claws (and I don't mean the kind filled with marzipan) :P

 

If that were to happen, Bligh bless us, the world eaters would be super awesome cool.

[Flint13]

@ Vlad - I've noticed the popularity of Aussie 30k too, mostly bc I've been checking out a few of their podcasts. It is a silly amount of grav, I'll give you, but nothing feels worse than setting up your rapier laser destroyers across from two flare shielded Spartans and a Typhon. :D

 

@ Depth - One thing I want more than anything (not least of which bc I may have just splurged on a one...) are rules for Ursus claws a la Legio Audax.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Flint13

[Hesh Kadesh]

Yup. My favourite pattern of Warlord would be a Dual Saturnyne with Incendiary Missile banks. Either place down a pair o. s9 ap2 instagib superflamers and a 1/battle 20 shot s6ap3 barrage or just wail with 5 strength d attacks and stompystompy.

 

Legio audax warlord? Go on then. What are audax colours? Anyone know?

[Flint13]

^ Colors are red, black and gray so far as I can find.

 

POOM did a pretty amazing rendition of Surgalah about a year ago now. 

[1ncarnadine]

Really good bet we'll see Legio Audax/the Ember Wolves featured in one of the next few HH books too, as Shadow Crusade is tentatively one of the next 3 books. And maybe some new World Eaters units/characters, possibly even daemon Angron :D

 

For quick reference though, poom's Syrgalah is down towards the bottom of this page, still looking amazing: 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288089-but-blood-blood-is-forever/page-8

[Flint13]

Guys,

 

So I will admit I had kinda passed over most of the relics in Conquest as a little overpriced. While the World Breaker Trident is hella awesome... its also hella expensive. Still haven't given that one a legit try in "competitive" games.

 

However I'm here to tell you that the Void Shield Harness is absolute money for us. Tired of failing what should be an easy charge b/c your front rank gets over-watched to death? Let me tell you, the look on my opponent's face when I charged my Berzerker Assault Praetor and 9 rabid despoilers into a full Pyroclast squad... it was absolutely priceless. 10d3 strength 5 hits aren't so bad when they're just bouncing off armor 12. 

 

Now admittedly, given more time its not that difficult to make an AV12 shield collapse, so I think the key is minimal time in the open. It will protect you from that first dangerous overwatch for your premium assault squad, which I think is well worth the 40pts. But anything after that is a bonus, and not to be expected. 

 

But I've tried it in two games now, Salamanders and Ultramarines, and to repeat. Void shield harness saving your expensive assault squad = MONEY

Edited June 20, 2015 by Flint13

[Slips]

I agree with you on the VSH. I've runned it twice on a librarian and one of those times I forgot I had it. If I hadn't....

 

Another Money Relic is the Nanyte Blaster. Cant speak for it but its pretty silly. Give it to a Character already equipped with the Phase Walker, jump to the other side of the table T1, Nanyte your enemies potentially clumped up infantry and LOL all the way to the bank.

 

The WE Trident is literally the Rule of Cool in relic form. Whats more badass than a Gladiator Marine killing fools with it then just tossing it at a Target or Vehicle (its S10 when Thrown, iirc) and having it just deny an area of the board for the rest of the game?

 

The other relic that I think is underutilised is the Warp Shunt Field effectively giving you a 3++ vs shooting and the possibility to reflect some damage back to the attacker.

 

I still havent seen the Salamanders Shield Relic in play yet but it looks pretty insane.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Slipstreams

[Kharnfest]

How good is World Eaters mechanized?

 

I have a bunch of rhinoes and one Land Raider but I rarely win games. I mostly play against standard 40k armies. Any good pointers?

[Caillum]

What from I can gather, World Eaters excel at mechanised!

 

Rhinos probably aren't what you're looking for though, as they're not assault transports. Land Raider Phobos', Spartans, Storm Eagles and Anvillus/Kharybis Assault Claws are perfect for WE. All of these also protect your troops until they get into combat, which is critical. I would try for 2-3 of these and see how they fare.

 

As for specific tips against 40k armies, I can't help you there as I never tend to mix the 2 formats.

[Flint13]

Hi Kharnfest!

 

A couple of things to keep in mind to assist in your XII legion endeavors.

 

1.) World Eaters Tacticals need to be in combat to really press their natural advantage over other Astartes. Even with no Rites of War, we get Rage on pretty much everything. Heresy is all about shifting the odds in your favor through weight of dice. When one of our few advantages vs other Astartes is triple thier number of attacks in hand to hand, we darn sure better use it ^_^

 

2.) because of that, assault vehicles are your best friend. No one likes getting shot to pieces before making it i to combat. If you have mainly rhinos, use them aggressively for cover to protect your advance. Worse case scenario, your opponent blows them up and provides a formerly open area with ample cover. Just make sure the wrecks don't get in the way of a good charge!

 

As for battles against 40k armies, I've got a pretty good depth of experience. Are there any in particular you typically face?

[Kharnfest]

My issue right now is a lack of firepower. Current list I am toying with is (in short)

 

Khârn with Command squad and LR Phobos

Master of signal

 

3X CC armed Rhino Tac squads

 

Heavy Support squad w/ ML (MoS goes with him) and rhino (mandatory for armored spearhead ROW)

Whirlwind Scorpius (still converting this one)

Dakka Predator (also still being converted)

 

My current issue is I keep losing games due to lack of firepower and troop numbers (I only recently started running Khârn and 3 tac squads. Used to do Pride of the Legion.)

 

Sadly I have no got the chance to play Heresy vs. Heresy.

[Kharnfest]

Hi Kharnfest!

 

A couple of things to keep in mind to assist in your XII legion endeavors.

 

1.) World Eaters Tacticals need to be in combat to really press their natural advantage over other Astartes. Even with no Rites of War, we get Rage on pretty much everything. Heresy is all about shifting the odds in your favor through weight of dice. When one of our few advantages vs other Astartes is triple thier number of attacks in hand to hand, we darn sure better use it

 

2.) because of that, assault vehicles are your best friend. No one likes getting shot to pieces before making it i to combat. If you have mainly rhinos, use them aggressively for cover to protect your advance. Worse case scenario, your opponent blows them up and provides a formerly open area with ample cover. Just make sure the wrecks don't get in the way of a good charge!

 

As for battles against 40k armies, I've got a pretty good depth of experience. Are there any in particular you typically face?

I'll definitely try this. Thanks for the advice.

 

I'm halfway tempted to try and scrap up the savings for two more LRs and do Land Raider phobos armed Tac Squads.

[Flint13]

^ Right now I'm having a ton of fun wih the following:

 

- Praetor, Paragon Blade, digital lasers, Void Shield Harness, berzerker assault rite of war

- Forgelord, artificer armor, lightning claw, cyber familiar, rad grenades

 

- Apothecary, art armor

 

- 3x10x despoilers w/ chainaxe and bolt pistol, vexila, Vet Sarge w/ power axe, art armor and melta bombs

 

- 2x Land Raider Phobos, dozer blade, armored ceramite

 

- Spartan - Flare shield, dozer blade, armored ceramite

 

- Typhon w/ lascannon sponsons, armored ceramite

 

 

The despoiler squads go in the Phobos raiders, the characters go with the third despoiler squad and apothecary in the Spartan.

 

Raiders are crazy resilient, Spartans and Typhons even more so, and all together they give amazing target saturation. Your options are to try and down the Typhon (which most everyone goes with) and eat a despoiler squad with tooled FNP characters or try and stop the Guided missile Spartan and take Dreadhammer cannon to the face.

 

Another point of something every XII legion player should try is the void shield harness. It gives you a bubble of AV12 the size of a 5" blast template. That doesn't sound like much for 40pts, and it isn't if you're foot slogging. But it *will* splash that first overwatch and keep you from failing a charge bc the front two Astartes get picked off by Bolter fire. Nothing below STR6 can even scratch the shield and on the off chance it catches something like a meltagun on overwatch and pops, it will still ignore everything since all overwatch shooting, just like normal shooting, is simultaneous. Then your Eaters are in close combat where they belong and it doesn't matter if you've still got the shield or not :D

Edited August 3, 2015 by Flint13

[Fangbanger]

I didn't think you could run more vehicles than you have troops in bezerker assault?

 

I like it though, but how do you find units of 10 compared to 15 or 20?

[Flint13]

Does the Apothecary or Independent characters not count as infantry units? That's totally how we've been playing the tanks <= infantry deal for Berzerker assault at my LGS.

 

Anywho, short of riding in a Spartan, any despoiler squad bigger than ten is going to be foot slogging, which means they aren't getting into combat with their full numbers anyway. I treat my command squad despoilers with the Praetor and Forgelord as a guided missile for the nastiest thing on the table short of a primarch. They haven't let me down yet. Killing a 4 wound left Wraithknight has been their best outing so far :D

 

If it *is* a primarch they're facing, the Typhon gets to come out with his +1 on the Thunderblitz table awesomeness ^_^

[Hesh Kadesh]

It's unclear, because there aren't rules interactions between non Independent Characters joining other units. Independent Characters are their own unit until they join another unit as they then count as a part of that unit for all intents and purposes (technically meaning that you'd have to deploy IC's on their own if the ratio was that low). Apothecaries don't have that rule, and try explaining that it's actually one unit made of two units.

 

This is a RAW question that FW aren't clever or caring enough to answer; and I personally see it that a model which is allocated to another unit for the entirety of the game, and can't even join other units through IC status counts for the purposes of that rule. It seems quite gamesman-like, but YMMV between your playing group. 

[Fangbanger]

Quick one guys....got a 3000 point game against Horus....any tips? I have no angron or super heavy myself but I'm guessing the best thing to do is shoot him to death!? Don't fancy Khârn and the tacs chances against him in combat!