++ The Brotherhood of Dust - A Thousand Sons Community ++

[Heliomanes]

Beautiful beast, Archaeinox!

In case you wanted to feed your obsession a bit more - I'm a massive nerd and a history of religions major which specifies in modern esotericism. The book A Thousand Sons is mired in lore from modern esotericism and occultism. The most specific source is Aleister Crowley's order of the A.:.A.:. - more info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%E2%88%B4A%E2%88%B4

The first and most obvious reference is the grade structure. Magister Templi. Magus. Ipsissimus. Sounds familliar? The Dominus Liminis is also here, the daemon Choronzon, the "Crowned and Conquering Child" from Magnus' word in the preface... If you want to go more in depth, you'll find training in astral projection, magical rituals and the 10 "sephira" from the qabalah as an approximation of the enumerations, and the conjuration of tutelary spirits. It's a fun rabbit hole if you're invested in the lore of the Thousand Sons and find this subject fascinating. :)

[Prot]

Phosis is defintely casting Smite there... at something outside. :)

 

On the subject of new units.... I have to admit I'm seriously seeing the strength of a lascannon now. I'm thinking I have to find a way to get these into my Thousand Sons lists. 

 

I have a Helbrute that was intended for my World Eaters but now I'm thinking of going Twin Lascannon and .... Missiles? Or should I keep a CC arm with a heavy flamer???

 

Thoughts? 

 

(BTW: Crazed in this edition looks a lot funner... Also thinking of taking a Warpsmith for multi Brutes)

[Archaeinox]

https://youtu.be/c7_I-zJyOSU

 

There's also this gem.. Thousand Sons tribute band.

and I am definitely going to add a helbrute.

[Raven1]

Keeping within the TS list I believe restricts you to Helbrute so TLC with missiles, Defiler with Lascannon, or predator. Out of those options I would say the predator is best BS3+ with 4 Lascannon shots. The Defiler does have the battlecannon and infernal regeneration but the BS4+ means realistically your hitting with one shot against the laspredators like 3 or so. I almost forgot the land raider 4shots at 3+ and can hold some dudes.

 

With forgeworld in mind...a contemptor twin Lascannon arms and a missle launcher? Or really a myriad of o 8th other tanks and options like the wonderful looking leviathan with grav flux cannon which can kill both horde and elite units, but requires you to be fairly close.

[Zodd1888]

Helbrutes w/ Las/Launcher - 147 Points

 

2 ST9 1d6/-3

And

D6 ST4 1/0 or 1 ST8 1d6/-2

 

= 73.5 Points / Las

 

Disco Pred - 202 Points

 

4 ST9 1d6/-3

 

= 50.5 Points / Las

 

Are the points worth the extra shots?

 

Both hit on 3+, but no Damage table on the brute and the bonus to get extra attacks with crazed.

 

Edit: I realized I didn't give my opinion. It's a yes.

 

Edit 2: Points corrected. Thanks!

[Sonoftherubric21]

Helbrutes w/ Las/Launcher - 122 Points

 

2 ST9 1d6/-3

And

D6 ST4 1/0 or 1 ST8 1d6/-2

 

= 66 Points / Las

 

Disco Pred - 202 Points

 

4 ST9 1d6/-3

 

= 50.5 Points / Las

 

Are the points worth the extra shots?

 

Both hit on 3+, but no Damage table on the brute and the bonus to get extra attacks with crazed.

 

Edit: I realized I didn't give my opinion. It's a yes.

 

Tad off on the math there I think.

 

A Helbrute with las/missile load out is 147, not 122. 

 

Expensive...but I think worth most definitely. look at the power of a missile launcher and las cannon. 

 

The good news for the Sons is that warp time has a great use in helping our little "helbrute turrets" to move without taking a BS penalty (though to be fair 4+ isnt awful, many an army function on worse BS while stationary  lol)  I can *Definitely* see a place for a helbrute or 2 in a thousand sons collection/list. 

 

I have the Dark vengnace one; might be time to nab the newer plastic kit....

[Zodd1888]

I think the Helbrute may be our swiss army knife to help deal with both Anti-Tank and Anti-Horde. That particular load-out on 2 or 3 Helbrutes would seriously mess some things up.

[Sonoftherubric21]

So gents; I just had my second game of 8th.....

 

Orks, his army list was.... 5 nobz, a warboss....and 90 boyz all with buried klaws.....Ohhhhhh dear..... Oh; and shock attack gun with some grots in front to tank any shots coming their way. 

My list was.... 20 Tzaangors (2 units of ten) with pistols/swords, Ahriman on Disc, a 14 man unit of rubricae with reaper (no flamers), and a 5 man unit of scarab occult, Soul reaper, missiles. 

 

This game went.....interestingly. 

He marched up the board on all 3 sides, my scarab occult drop in and shred a good chunk of one blob on the right side of the table (opposite his warboss), my Rubricae get warp timed up and double-tap his Nobz out of existence.....  He then proceeds to charge 60 boyz into my 14 Rubricae.....and the rubricae lose 3 models.  *LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE* "All is Dust"    Worth its weight in gold on basic infantry!

 

That becomes a grind that I dont want to walk away from (since the scarab occult mopped up a full unit of 30 essentially alone over 2 turns)  a ten man Tzaangor unit intercepted the grinding combat, the same turn Ahriman charges his Warboss solo and proceeds to beat him to death in one round of combat. 

 

Unfortunately my opponent used the Command point ability (2 cost) counter-assault where he gets to swing next, he swung knocking out most of the charging tzaangor unit backing up the Rubricae before they could go. (sad face for the goats) and this may give credence to a 20 man unit of Tzaangor as opposed to two 10 man.....as LD then finished off the unit later that phase after they swung.  The Rubrics continued being whittled down while doing little in return to the boyz, knocking out a few for sure but not many. 

The big grinding combat continued with the Rubricae getting whittled down and finally finished off at bottom of 4 to where only one unit was in base contact, the free unit then turned, smiled at Ahriman and steam-rolled him in vengeance for murdering the Warboss with 84 bloody attacks!!!  I notice our sorcerers (While far far cheaper) are also far more fragile this edition, lacking T5 on the disc....... (though to be fair a charging Boyz unit last edition would've done much the same!) 

We called the game as the shop was closing up and things were still somewhat up in the air as his units were small enough to start taking morale, he has 30 some odd boyz on the table in 2 different units, i had 5 fresh scarab occult, and a single exalted sorcerer at full wounds left.  I dont think I was out of it yet, it was more or less a tie with it ending *slightly* in his favor but it was top of (I think?) 5 and I had a move for the scarab occult with lots of shots flying around....coulda gone either way definitely. 

So It was an interesting game, quite informative. I have come to the conclusion that hordes in 8th are going to be a thing, Its nasty.  Although "all is dust" makes our infantry INCREDIBLY reliable in that regard.  we are incredibly hard to remove even in melee.  

 

In 1500+ I can see how we have the tools to deal with something like this;  At 1000? No idea! minimum for decent CP being 3 troops and 2 HQ's. though exalteds for 101 each are a good-to-great price point IMO

 

honestly with how much trouble the boyz had I was tempted to drop the Scarab Occult and go with another unit of Rubricae.... as the PPM is very low for what you get and hordes have a real issue dealing with it, though the melee damage output is low for rubrics for obvious reasons.  Tzaangors are definitely worth their points, I just rolled terribly *completely* wiffing with both units this game.  But the dust bunnies made up for it.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

How are people planning on getting acces to things such as Warpsmithes ect as we have no access to them?

Anyone been able to find out if we will have access to the forgeworld stuff in the book or might that be only for other legions?

Got a metal lascannon /missile dread in my wolves which I haven't used for years, and they have no need of it with all the long fangs and speeders they have so I'm thinking he may become a rubric dread as chaos dreadnoughts do look good for fire support.

After buying 3 boxes of scarab occult, I'm sad they essentially afe the same as normal chaos tetminators with less options and costing more (I'm imagining/hearing all is dust is situational at best) but am thinking ordering some extra legs and shoulder pads and using the spares to make an extra terminator so I can merge two of the squads into one 10 strong squad with 2 hell fires and a reaper.

I'm loving the look of rubrics this edition, I'm thinking one 20 strong squad with one or two rhino mounted ones could be good when backed by dreads and sorcerers.

[Panzer]

How are people planning on getting acces to things such as Warpsmithes ect as we have no access to them?

 Easy. Take a Tzeentch Auxiliary Support Detachment and include a Tzeentch Warpsmith for -1CP.

If you want more things you can't get as TSon take one of the other Detachments as Tzeentch ones. For now there is no real benefit of playing a 100% TSons army.

[Paladin777]

^this.

 

Until we get some 1000 sons specific rules, I don't think there's any reason to go with army keyword <thousand sons> over <tzeentch> or even just <chaos>. There's a lot of goodies that can be cherry picked from deamons without even using a different detachment, though unlike 7th ed it's not something that we need to rely on to be viable.

[Prot]

 

How are people planning on getting acces to things such as Warpsmithes ect as we have no access to them?

 Easy. Take a Tzeentch Auxiliary Support Detachment and include a Tzeentch Warpsmith for -1CP.

If you want more things you can't get as TSon take one of the other Detachments as Tzeentch ones. For now there is no real benefit of playing a 100% TSons army.

 

 

Actually Heretic Astartes keyword is all you have to do to fit it in the same detachment.

[Panzer]

 

 

How are people planning on getting acces to things such as Warpsmithes ect as we have no access to them?

 Easy. Take a Tzeentch Auxiliary Support Detachment and include a Tzeentch Warpsmith for -1CP.

If you want more things you can't get as TSon take one of the other Detachments as Tzeentch ones. For now there is no real benefit of playing a 100% TSons army.

 

 

Actually Heretic Astartes keyword is all you have to do to fit it in the same detachment.

 

Yeah but that would go even further away from a proper TSons legion than it would be with the Tzeentch faction keyword already. :P

I mean, you could just go with the Chaos faction keyword as well. :D

[Paladin777]

I'd imagine that eventually as you get more specific keywords you might get more bonuses.

[Paladin777]

For example: an all tzeentch detachment might get bonus X, and an all thousand sons detachment gets bonus Y. Since a fully thousand sons detachment is all tzeentch, they would get bonuses Xand Y whereas if it was just tzeentch it would only get bonus X.

 

If you had a generic heretic astartes detachment they might not have any bonuses for that at all as it has a very diverse mix and that IS your bonus.

 

This is all speculation, but I would like to see some crunch reason to take some of the more specific keywords.

[Shinespider]

I'd rather that more specific keywords gave access the new options (that you pay for) than simply giving flat bonuses. Giving free stuff to certain army compositions is pretty much what formations were - it's a dark road to go down. 

[Paladin777]

Ok, fair enough.

[Archaeinox]

Rubrics are elites without ts keyword overall?

[Paladin777]

That is true, I forgot about that...

[Heliomanes]

SfPanzer, you seem to misunderstand how detachments work a bit. There's no such thing as choosing a detachment keyword. The only rule is that the units have to have at least one keyword in common to be in the same detachment or army. So there's no reason to do what you suggest - to take a seperate detachment to add tzeentch units. You can do the same thing in the same detachment you already have.

[Raven1]

Rubrics are elites without ts keyword overall?

Rubrics are elites if they dont have keyword <Thousand Sons> so if you're running a black legion themed list with Abaddon and you want them to benefit from his command aura then they would be <Black Legion> and elites.

 

Right now as far as i know there is nothing preventing your from running Berzerkers <World Eaters>, Plague marines <Dearth Guard>, Rubric marines <Thousand Sons> all in the same list as they share Chaos and Heretic Astartes keywords the only thing got currently lose out on is the command benefit auras

[Heliomanes]

Raven1 is right. The only thing you'd miss out from is the buffs from characters, since those are Legion specific. But with the new character rules, those are very powerful and pretty much the primary reason for using characters in 8th edition, so you'd be giving yourself a pretty tough handicap to get those troop cult units.

[Skerr]

Read highlights on interesting Bat Rep last night with Ksons vs Eldar.  Not a full report though a few highlights on a daily blog called Tabletop Teacher.

 

Hemlock was taken down by Smite though it removed a few rubrics.  Magnus turned Eldrad into a spawn after charging and chewed up a good amount of Eldar.

[Panzer]

SfPanzer, you seem to misunderstand how detachments work a bit. There's no such thing as choosing a detachment keyword. The only rule is that the units have to have at least one keyword in common to be in the same detachment or army. So there's no reason to do what you suggest - to take a seperate detachment to add tzeentch units. You can do the same thing in the same detachment you already have.

I know that much. The reason why I said to take an additional detachment is so your main detachment can be a pure TSons detachment which lets you take Rubrics as Troop choice.

 

Then again I can't really find where it says that it's about detachments or the whole army that has to share the same faction keyword for such boni so I could be wrong on that part and it might not be possible to include a Tzeentch Warpsmith in your army without losing the Troop Rubric bonus.

The only thing I could find is under the advanced rules for Battle-Forged Armies in the box about Factions but it's not clearly stated there either.

[Sonoftherubric21]

So can we all agree they need to make army building rules just a tad more detailed? 

If we can just take all the stuff as troops whats the point of bloody keywords?!?!? 

It should be keyword by detachment or something. honestly.