++ Iron Within, Iron Without An Iron Warriors Community ++

[Goreshed]

Iron Warriors are both attack and defense. Both fit fluffy in their lore as you have instances of them being garrison troops and thus needing to master the art of defense while a lot of their front line action is combat, right in the thick of it as well as lobbing shell after shell at an enemy.

[Augustus b'Raass]

@ durdle-durdle; I think your analysis is pretty accurate. Don't worry about the Daemon Engine pack - that formation isn't good anyway: Maulerfiends would be out of range of the Warpsmith when they need it and you can only ever give one forgefiend BS5, plus forgefiends suck anyway.  

 

@ Iron_within: against Mech IG, that list is fricking amazing, especially with Heretech powers. Please field it against your friend and tell us of the slaughter. Do you have 14 obliterators?

[Iron_Within]

I have 20 terminators and i was going to use the list with a counts as using the terminators. They never get a bloody chance to come out anyway.

[durdle-durdle]

Iron Warriors are both attack and defense. Both fit fluffy in their lore as you have instances of them being garrison troops and thus needing to master the art of defense while a lot of their front line action is combat, right in the thick of it as well as lobbing shell after shell at an enemy.

I know thats how they are lore wise. I meant game wise, their rules seem to favor shooting from what ive seen.

 

Is "no marks" a big downside in yalls opinion?

[Doctor Perils]

I wonder if/when we get an update to Imperial Armour 13 with formations that can slot into these detachments. I sooooo want to add some rapier-y goodness to my army :devil:

[Goreshed]

This is a shooting edition, specially since we have trouble getting across the board. However given the rules we now get for free? No I do not think ot having marks are a bad thing.

[Warsmith Uveron]

I wonder if/when we get an update to Imperial Armour 13 with formations that can slot into these detachments. I sooooo want to add some rapier-y goodness to my army

 

I don't expect that will happen, the Imperials have been in the same boat for some time. If you take a formation, they you dont get the IA Goodys. My work-around will be to use the Purged Detachment, or a CAD if I need anything from the book.  

 

 

Is "no marks" a big downside in yalls opinion?

 

 

Very Small, for the reason I gave above. I have been using the Purged detachment alot recently which only allows for MoN and on most units its not a great choice. So I have just been doing without... (appart from on my spawn, and they will suffer but they will be cheaper) 

[BrainFireBob]

Two Oblits and a Warpsmith. Add IA13 to taste

[Iron_Within]

Another 2k list thought bubble appears. Well two of them...

 

2k cad list

HQ - Daemon prince of Tzeentch, level 3 mastery, wings, Familiar, exoskeleton (2+ rerollable!)

Troops - x6 1 obliterators

FA - 5 bikes with 2 melta guns

FA- 3 chaos spawn

FA- 3 chaos spawn

HS- maulerfiend x3

Cad2

HQ- Sorcerer with bike level 3, Familiar and Cranium

TROOPS x6 obliterators

 

Main change from the last list is a horrible daemon prince

Edited December 16, 2016 by Iron_Within

[Goodwin]

I'm still figuring my way back into the rules and all, but I do dig the idea of the six obliterator units.  That should be annoying for an enemy that doesn't have Split Fire (I think I read that that's a rule >.>)!

 

I did have a question for the DPs though - do you HAVE to take one of the Daemon lores?  It says you can.  I was hoping to take Heretek with a Nurgle Daemon Prince flying around being a super-virus or something.

[Augustus b'Raass]

I'm still figuring my way back into the rules and all, but I do dig the idea of the six obliterator units.  That should be annoying for an enemy that doesn't have Split Fire (I think I read that that's a rule >.>)!

 

I did have a question for the DPs though - do you HAVE to take one of the Daemon lores?  It says you can.  I was hoping to take Heretek with a Nurgle Daemon Prince flying around being a super-virus or something.

Welcome back (of sorts)! :) About the DP - yes, you have to get a 'Daemon of x' for it, and if you make him a sorcerer too, then at keast one of his powers must come from his chosen deity's deck. So you DP with nurgle and heretech powers is possible. :tu: You just cannot get the free primaris power... :(

[Kierdale]

My thanks to those who submitted entries for the Iron Warriors Inspirational Friday topic :tu:

[durdle-durdle]

So, do yall thinking going with the grand company is better? Or a cad? I feel like the grand company is only worth it if you were planning on taking the contents of a warband and a bunch of defilers or vindicators. Outside of that, i think i'd rather go with a cad (especially with oblit troops)!

 

Edit: i retract my earlier statements about the siegebreaker mace and armorbane axe. Throw one on a daemon prince, and he'll shrek anything not a bloodthirster or gmc with a ton of attacks (and even then, his chances aren't bad imo)

Edited December 17, 2016 by durdle-durdle

[Iron_Within]

Tbh unless you're taking something with a barrage (building) or ordinance (vindicators and defilers, which why are you taking a defiler they are possibly the worst choice in the codex now) you'd better off taking the black crusade detachment in traitors hate to buff your units with boons.

Or you could take the death guard formation to reroll fnp saves (as there is no restriction as to which formation you must use remember).

 

If you're wanting to take massed obliterators cads are the best. Iron warrior chaos space marines then it's formations

[durdle-durdle]

Tbh unless you're taking something with a barrage (building) or ordinance (vindicators and defilers, which why are you taking a defiler they are possibly the worst choice in the codex now) you'd better off taking the black crusade detachment in traitors hate to buff your units with boons.

Or you could take the death guard formation to reroll fnp saves (as there is no restriction as to which formation you must use remember).

 

If you're wanting to take massed obliterators cads are the best. Iron warrior chaos space marines then it's formations

I didn't know that about the detatchments. So in that case, i could use say night lords traits with alpha legion detatchment for stealth + shrouded? (just as an example)

[Goodwin]

So skip the defilers for now - check.

What about the Vindis?  Are they worth picking up with the reroll, and if so, in a unit for the Super Blast of Apoc or just singular?

 

I know switching some formations to other Legions may be benefitial, but I'd rather keep everyone in Grey Black and Yellah.

[durdle-durdle]

So skip the defilers for now - check.

What about the Vindis? Are they worth picking up with the reroll, and if so, in a unit for the Super Blast of Apoc or just singular?

 

I know switching some formations to other Legions may be benefitial, but I'd rather keep everyone in Grey Black and Yellah.

Well, with a smallish warband and a single fist of the gods i was able to fit in 7 vindicators (2 squadrons of 3 and a single). Im not totally sold yet, but i think multiple squadrons of three may be solid. Dont forget the apoc shot gets ignores cover too. So if you want to wipe out one large area, use apoc blast. Have one unit you want to stack wounds on? 3 large blasts. In a cad i was able to fit 3 squadrons of 3, 6 individual oblits, and a daemon prince with 2+ armor relic and several upgrades everywhere for under 2k.

 

I also like defilers too though. They may not be very competitive, but they can drop a battle cannon shot on something then charge it with s 10 hits. As long as you dont charge th terminators or dreadnoughts, theyre pretty fine i think (though still a far cry from soul grinders. Them's the breaks.)

Edited December 17, 2016 by durdle-durdle

[Goodwin]

I do dig the defiler too.  Its a shame he's not that great.

I was thinking of using him in the... bah can't remember the name, the daemon engine pack with two Maulerfiends and then making him the alpha.  4++ never hurt anyone, riiight?

 

Thanks for the intel'!

[durdle-durdle]

I do dig the defiler too. Its a shame he's not that great.

I was thinking of using him in the... bah can't remember the name, the daemon engine pack with two Maulerfiends and then making him the alpha. 4++ never hurt anyone, riiight?

 

Thanks for the intel'!

Helforged warpack? I usually take 2 defilers and a maulerfiend. The maulerfiend is alpha. The 4++ helps him survive to his target, and once he dies (he will) the 2 defilers which are nearing their target get rage so they can DESTROY. Also don't forget, unlike the soul grinder, deffy has fleet! Reroll those failed charges fam!

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

So, do yall thinking going with the grand company is better? Or a cad? I feel like the grand company is only worth it if you were planning on taking the contents of a warband and a bunch of defilers or vindicators. Outside of that, i think i'd rather go with a cad (especially with oblit troops)!

 

Edit: i retract my earlier statements about the siegebreaker mace and armorbane axe. Throw one on a daemon prince, and he'll shrek anything not a bloodthirster or gmc with a ton of attacks (and even then, his chances aren't bad imo)

 

Agree

 

Just for me, I have been using the Black Crusade & now the Grand Company detachment as I've never really use formation before.  I do enjoy using them, but I think majority of my games will be with the Force org chart.  End of the day just try out different list, units, not be stuck on the same list ever single game.

 

I've still got to add a defiler to my army, maybe something to keep to one side for ETL this year.

 

I like the Siegebreaker mace.  I am gutted I've loss my Mark of Khorne & Axe of Blind Fury to Lord Narach.  But I really enjoy using the Siege Breaker mace during my first game with Traitor Legion against my friend Death Guard force.  I'm just trying to think how I want to model it, ether with the one from Confessor Kyrinov model (made to order) or use the Hammer weapon from the Varanguard Knight set from Age of Sigmar.

 

I'm also looking that converting up a new version of Warsmith Abhorred Riddick (Daemon Prince).  I was thinking of the Mace as well, just when I started my Iron Warriors back 2001 Sauron, Lord of the Ring movie was sort of something I wanted to get idea from when watching the WETA workshop design video.

Then the Flesh metal armour for that nice 2+ armour save & it will not die.

 

Has anyone try the Cranium Malevolus relic yet, the one where during the shooting phase if your with in 2d6 against vehicles suffer haywire attacks with no cover saves allowed?

[ThatOneMarshal]

@Insane psychopath that's actually a pretty cool idea for the mace bearer though unless you are houseruling it, I don't think you can take both artifacts due to the FAQ.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

@Insane psychopath that's actually a pretty cool idea for the mace bearer though unless you are houseruling it, I don't think you can take both artifacts due to the FAQ.

 

Sorry there no bearer.  I'm remove the axe from Lord Narach & replace it with ether the confessor model that was part of the made to order.  Or I'm going to use the Hammer from the Varanguard Knight.

​So again the Axe model on my Terminator lord possible been remove.

​Then for the Daemon Prince, I'm looking converting up the Bloodthister model & use the double handed axe & use the wrecking ball from the Skaven Screaming Bell kit,  I've got a lot idea for converting, but want to wait until I've got the parts before posting anything for time been.

[Iron Skull Mask]

Yesterday, I played my first game with the legion rules, as GW took its time to deliver my pre-ordered copy of the legions book... (which will have me not pre-order anything from them ever again - I mean why should I if I get it faster when I wait for the actual release).

 

I played the following list:

 

DP, Nurgle, lvl 3, wings, armor, cranium, spell familiar

Sorc, lvl 3, bike, 5++, Axe, spell familiar

3x2 Oblits

2x5 Marines in Rhinos, 1 squad with metla/melta-combi, 1 squad with plasma/plasma-combi, meltabombs on champs

4 Bikers, 1 melta, meltabombs on champ

void shield gen

Renegade Knight, 2x gattling, S8 missle pod

 

My opponent surprised me with a motley crew list (that's what we call non maxed out fun lists) of Agents of the Imperium and friends, but with some teeth:

 

3x Vindicator (linebreaker blast)

2x Whirlwind

tech marine

2x techmarines with artillery guns (don't know the exact name, but it fires indirectly and drops a lot of small templates, really nasty)

Culexus Assassin (=one nasty bugger)

Imperial Knight with sword and gattling

grey knight terminator squad

grey knight jump squad (teleporters)

grey knight dread knight, fully kitted out

 

My void shield took most of his first turn barrage and so I got away without any losses (void shield = awesome). On the flipside my first turn shooting took out the termi squad with two well-placed plasma cannon shots from the one oblit squad I had deployed... (and I swear I never hit anything before with plasma cannons!) My daemon prince flew around, summoned 5 squads of daemons and hurt vehicles with the cranium. My knight killed the other grey knights before he was swatted by the D-sword. A squad of daemonettes killed the culexus after 4 rounds of combat. I successfully kept my psykers away from her with the help of their mobility. Deep striking Oblits took care of the techmarines and their guns, after another squad of daemonettes had failed miserably in doing so. My marines killed off two vindicators close and dirty and only lost one guy! That's the lowest marine mortality rate ever in a game I played! So you can probably figure that template weapons weren't my opponents pals that game. His knight rampaged on, killing some more daemonettes and my bikers with the sorcerer in them, but was the lone survivor of his army in the end. The final score was 25:20 for me, as I had started out slow on maelstrom points, drawing objectives in his deployment zone. But since we used the mission set up used in most tournaments around here, we got a secondary mission from eternal war which was kill points, and as a tertriay mission slay the warlord, first blood and line breaker (which I scored all, and he none of). I have to say this victory was double nice after my IW had been crushed by his Gene Stealer Cult the last two times we had played, and of course because it was the first game with the new legion rules. :)

 

 

OK, so what can I say about the legion rules after this game. First of all, free vets and 6+ fnp is really nice. It doesn't come into play against S10, but nevertheless helped me save a couple of wounds. What surprised me was, that I didn't miss MoN on the Oblits at all! I mean OK, I didn't face much small arms fire this game, and they would have been just as dead after taking a S10 hit, but still I think it is maybe not as bad as I feared it was. For the points I saved, I bought the cranium as I thought it would be awesome on a DP with wings, and it was. Sure, I didn't expect to face such a tank heavy list, but a list with drop pods instead, but still I think it's safe to say that it is a really strong combo. Another thing I think is rather obvious is slapping the exo skeletton on a sorcerer (or DP) to make it super tough and to regenerate some wounds taken due to perils.

 

After the game I reconsidered my list and found that it wasn't as good as it could have been. I had build it with battle scribe and there they don't have the traitor legions book implemented yet. What I overlooked was that because Oblits are now troops, I could have replaced the CSM with Chosen squads bringing two melta guns each. Of course they aren't obsec, but have a lot more attacks and shoot stronger that way. Of course I could put in other units as well, but I found it's always good to have some marines in rhinos to get certain things done. I was also really impressed with the bikers, because of their durabilty and speed - but that's old news.

 

As far as our formations go, I have to say that I'm not too happy with how restrictive they are. For example one cannot take a single Helldrake, a single Land Raider and Void Shield generator in the same list. I also had hoped that Oblits would replace Termis in our version of the warband, but it was to be expected after the roumors and reviews on the internet that this wouldn't be the case. I will still try our formations some time, but I think I will play most games with a CAD, as our command boni aren't super-crazy-good and our WL table isn't as well. Also without the cult of destruction certain warlord traits and IW objectives are dead draws... Talking about command boni: The mysterious barrage/ordnance re-roll should actually work with vindicators, right?

 

So overall the CSM faction got some really competitive lists in this book, unfortunately I think IW are not among the strongest legions. But still, the rules definitely make us a bit better as well, compared to before - though we also lost MoN which I usually took for Oblits and bikers. I still feel that the champion of chaos rule is a drag and should be removed together with the boon table. The boons should be buyable upgrades, really. But now that the table is referenced in our new formations it seems unlikely that this will be fixed anytime soon. Also while free vets and fnp make our stuff a bit more value for the point, point costs in general are still a bit too high. I kind of don't understand why GW is so afraid of redoing the CSM Codex, which is a hundred years old by now. I mean if they really give 40k the AoS treatment, people will rage-quit left and right anyway, and if not, why not just redo the book instead of selling three books with mostly identical rules (which many people I talked to found to be a "no cool" move) in an attempt of polishing that rusty old car with the broken brakes that is our codex.

 

Anyways. Hooray for legion rules! Having them back feels so awesome! And "Ha, ha!" to anybody who said legions are not a thing in 40k because they split up and all... I will definitely play the out of that traitor legion book, believe it.    

Edited December 19, 2016 by Iron Skull Mask

[durdle-durdle]

So if i wanted to play a list of big stompy things (i.e. maulerfiends, forgefiends, defilers, daemon princes, etc.) or blasty things like defilers or vindicators, would you reccomend this legion or a different one?

 

I love maulerfiends, forgefiends, and defilers. Most people would argue forgefiends and defilers are bad but i really love them!

Edited December 18, 2016 by durdle-durdle

[Excessus]

ISM, remember that you can also use havocs with meltas/plasmas instead of chosen or CSM in that list for even more firepower.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Excessus