[HH1.0] Emperor's Children Tactica

[Terminus]

Taking a DDP depends on the range of the weapons your Dreadnaughts are using. Using a close combat build with undersling weapons you can make a strong case for one, though as EC if you Outflank them with the Maru Skara RoW they become unnecessary. I feel this is the most effective way to use this type of Dreadnaught now given the cost increase recently applied to DDPs. In a 3rd Company Army, I would only be inclined to take Mortis Dreads/Contemptors or Deredeos because their firepower complements your Kakophoni by filling a role that they don't do as well - anti-air and/or long range anti-armour.

Hmm, a talon of Cortus Contemptors automatically outflanking on turn 2 actually seems pretty awesome.

[Supe robot gangster #1]

Been thinking of the viability of a JP list for the third. What's everyone's thoughts on which of the two jump pack ROW's synchronise best with our legion rules?

[Theredknight]

Wow, well I can't tell you how great it is to have 2/3 units of kakophoni with medics in. It's devastating when you focus fire!

 

At throne of skulls this weekend, had a good well rounded list and took 4/5 games, almost 5/5 but for one dice roll!

 

I'd almost go to say it's the 'perfect' list

Edited July 31, 2016 by Theredknight

[01RTB01]

Wow, well I can't tell you how great it is to have 2/3 units of kakophoni with medics in. It's devastating when you focus fire!

 

At throne of skulls this weekend, had a good well rounded list and took 4/5 games, almost 5/5 but for one dice roll!

 

I'd almost go to say it's the 'perfect' list

Congratulations :)

 

What did you take in the end and what were your opponent's forces like too?

 

I'd so love to attend one but have far too much to paint!

[Theredknight]

Hey it's taken me 2 years to finish them up!

 

My 2500 list is as follows

 

Hq

 

Eidolon, j pack

 

Troops

 

15 man assault squad, 2 power swords, one axe. Sarge as art armour, spear and shield (this deflected 2 of Vulkans mighty blows before the third killed him!)

 

3 units 10 man kakophoni, sarge has mix of spear, fist and axe. Also arty armour.

 

3 apothecaries one jumper With sword and shriekers, and 2 art armour and sword and augury scanners.

 

Elites.

2 quad launchers with shatter shells.

2 cortus dreads, chainfist and grav guns.

 

Heavy

 

Deredeo with missiles

Las vindi

2 dakka preds.

 

I played one where I dropped some bits and put a fellblade in there, for rule of cool.

 

I had 3 fun games and 2 meh ones. My first was against a dark angel player with 2 sqns of 3 vindis, 2 las,1 demolisher and machine spirit. And a typhon. I managed to destroy his typhon In first turn of shooting, a great first blood!

My last was my fav, a tough iron hands list with ferrus, it was neck and neck to the bitter end, eidolon was the last to go, having achieved his 2 vps for capturing a previously held point. He was ended by a venator shot, which imolated him.

It was nice to bring vulkan down however!

 

My list is pretty well rounded, a decent anti armour segment, and the kakophoni were ruinous (get it) outranging bolters and with much more damage output, i managed to get the extra d6 off a few times, I took 5 on one turn.

I did however find them in combat quite a lot, and even had to take the charge myself. They do well against tacticals and other like that. The extra ccw and shriekers makes them not to shabby. However I killed 3 in a round of shooting, even with an apothecary tending to their needs! My 30k Fabius one saved most of them though, he must be a good luck charm haha

[Caillum]

How did the chainfist/grav Cortus Dreads go? I have 2 BaC Contemptors that I'm considering turning into the same...

[Theredknight]

Really wel!

Stripped 4 points on a spartan, and both tried charging. One failed the other got in and finished it off. Just use the cover to your advantage is all.

I used overcharge for the extra run distance. Coupled with crusader your always going 6/8".

[01RTB01]

Dreads won't get crusader afaik as they don't have legiones astartes :)

[Theredknight]

Bah I am thinking of Rylanor (that one that's the same points cost as Telemachus but twice as crap)

I think you are correct. Either way I think they are worth their points with the extra overcharge

[01RTB01]

Call me slower than a death guard advance but I've just realised why people put palatines in an anvillus - you don't need to get out when it drops and you can then assault from it turn two. Wow! I'm so dumb!

 

Consequently I'm putting together a vet squad to pop from one. I've already got palatines with packs so ws5 vets with some combi melta, swords and spear seem the way forwards. Alternatively, forgo the ws5, have sniper and pay for shriekers?...

[Terminus]

Take the power fist, the spear is a trap.

[khyre]

Hey guys! Just found the tactica this week and wanted to get some outside opinions on my list. Played about a half dozen games, won 4/6. My club usually goes at 3000 pts with no LOW.

The Cortus and the blades with Eidolon each get a dreadclaw.

Plays very aggressively , with some great mid ranged shooting and the outflanking javelins have racked up a lot of tank and leviathan kills in my games so far.

Let me know what you all think!
 

HQ

• Legion Centurion

Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Pair of Lightning Claws, Refractor Field, Sonic Shrieker

• Consul

Chaplain

• Legion Centurion

Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Refractor Field, Sonic Shrieker

• Consul

Master of Signal

• Lord Commander Eidolon
  • Master of the Legion

3rd Company Elite

• Troops
  • The Kakophani of the Emperor's Children

9x Chora

• Orchestrator

Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs

• The Kakophani of the Emperor's Children

9x Chora

• Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier

Dozer Blade

• Orchestrator

Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs

• The Kakophani of the Emperor's Children

9x Chora

• Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier

Dozer Blade

• Orchestrator

Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs

• Elites
  • Apothecarion Detachment

Apothecarion Detachment

• Legion Apothecary

Artificer Armour

• Legion Apothecary

Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner

• Contemptor-Cortus Class Dreadnought Talon
  • Cortus Dreadnought

Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, Extra Armour, Graviton Gun, Melta Gun

• Legion Terminator Squad

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod, 4x Combi-Weapon, 4x Legion Terminators, 3x Lightning Claw, Tartaros Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Thunderhammer

• Legion Terminator Sergeant

Combi-Weapon, Phoenix Spear

• Palatine Blade Squad

6x Palatine Warrior, 6x Phoenix Spear, Sonic Shriekers

• Palatine Prefector

Melta Bombs, Phoenix Spear

• Fast Attack
  • Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod
     
  • Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod
     
  • Legion Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron
    • Legion Javelin Attack Speeder

Multi-melta

• Legion Javelin Attack Speeder

Multi-melta

• Legion Javelin Attack Speeder

Multi-melta

• Heavy Support
  • Legion Fire Raptor Gunship

Four Hellstrike Missiles, Reaper Autocannon battery

• Legion Whirlwind Scorpius

Dozer Blade 

Edited August 10, 2016 by khyre

[Theredknight]

I think at 3k, there's no excuse for not taking 3 units of kakophoni!!

My only problem is the lack of anti tank there.

Apart from speeders really.

Your one cortus really needs 2X grav guns and the fist. I like them in pairs.

One of your anvillus will pop down t1, assuming your enemy isn't Spartaned up or dropping in a t2 charge.

 

It's why I like to take some heavy hitting things, 2 cortus with gravs strips off 4 Hp, the last can be glanced with a deredeo or quad mortars. Leaving the meat inside open to charging.

 

Also, playing 8 games with them, my kakophoni were nearly always getting into combat, they are troops I suppose. A fist and arty is always a good one.

[01RTB01]

Interesting as my kakophoni are yet to reach combat

[Terminus]

Yeah, melee upgrades for the Orchestrators would be first on my shortlist of things to cut to make points.

 

Been thinking of the viability of a JP list for the third. What's everyone's thoughts on which of the two jump pack ROW's synchronise best with our legion rules?

 

Actually the 3rd really works well for jump pack troops, because you can make them effectively WS5 and I5, and they can take a bunch of power swords that will shred other marines before they get to swing (the last one is true in general).  They can serve as a good counter-assault element to an otherwise shooty list (since Palatines and Phoenix Guard are underwhelming). Drop Assault Vanguard can be interesting, you can deep strike first turn aggressively, and on the second turn they can hit and run out of combat if they didn't manage to break their target (although this does expose you to some shooting).

[Slips]

In the above Drop Assault Vanguard Scenario, wouldn't either Ancient Rylanor, Fulgrim or Phoenix Guard be sorta-kinda-useful due to their combat resolution shenanigans?

[01RTB01]

Also I have to say palatine blades are amazing! Mine always do well for me. Last game they tore through two full squads before getting too ballsy and bit off more than they could chew taking on a praevian and pair of castellax :) (too much rending optimism!) Prefector fought in 3 challenges and won 2, didn't do so well vs the praevian...

[Theredknight]

Interesting as my kakophoni are yet to reach combat

I was playing the tactical objectives game so tbf they were pushing forward sometimes.

But still, once the enemy realise how hard hitting they are they quickly become a target priority.

Finding in every game my sarge getting cut up undecided to stick him with a fist and arty armour due to the forced challenge rule.

[Thanos33]

Hey guys new to the bizz. Question how are you modeling those gravs on the Contemptor's? 

Secondly, are you running Rhino's with the Kakophon or just naked? If naked how are you fairing against Quad mortars and the like 60 wounds their dealing out? 

When you refer to dakka Preds to you mean autocannon + heavy bolters?

I think via the wording on the RoW - 3rd Company Elite you have to take sonic shriekers for the entire unit at +2 points per model and you can't just pick and choose who. But I could be wrong on that. Just reading the Book 6 now. 

Thanks!

Edited August 11, 2016 by Thanos33

[Theredknight]

Yes the unit as a whole needs shriekers.

 

Dakka preds are pred cannon, h bolter sponsons and pintle h bolter.

 

Oh a tip, ALWAYS run a kakophoni squad with an apothecary.

I assume your taking about phosphex? They are pretty nasty, but you'd have to deal with them another way. Charge up those dreads and get on top of them. EC are neither a strong shooty army, or a great CC army like WE. We are somewhere in between, the perfect balance.

 

Grav guns come on the dread claw and chainfist I believe. They go in the fist.

[Charlo]

Hey guys new to the bizz. Question how are you modeling those gravs on the Contemptor's? 

 

The FW ones have the option on some of the arms. It's the little bit that goes on the side of the fist with the grav cylinders

 

Secondly, are you running Rhino's with the Kakophon or just naked? If naked how are you fairing against Quad mortars and the like 60 wounds their dealing out? 

 

Better now they can attached Apothecaries. Rhinos are pretty cool to get them up-field or survive the opening salvo.

 

When you refer to dakka Preds to you mean autocannon + heavy bolters?

 

I would assume so - maybe a pintle HB too

 

I think via the wording on the RoW - 3rd Company Elite you have to take sonic shriekers for the entire unit at +2 points per model and you can't just pick and choose who. But I could be wrong on that. Just reading the Book 6 now. 

 

Yep. If you want one guy to have them the entire unit needs them I'm afraid. But not every unit in the army.

 

Thanks!

Edited August 11, 2016 by Charlo

[01RTB01]

Quad mortars are lethal but far from perfect. Phosphex is an issue but they can only kill one target at a time. Podded things or outflanking stuff would be the way to deal with them I believe.

 

I run my kakophoni naked, if they kill they love it, if tuet die, they love it. Win win!

[Terminus]

Also I have to say palatine blades are amazing! Mine always do well for me. Last game they tore through two full squads before getting too ballsy and bit off more than they could chew taking on a praevian and pair of castellax (too much rending optimism!) Prefector fought in 3 challenges and won 2, didn't do so well vs the praevian...

They aren't bad by any means, but can be really dicey with those rending rolls. How many are you taking and how are you equipping them?

 

Consider the following:

 

5 Palatine Blades with shriekers - 145

5 Command Squad with charnabal sabers and bucklers - 155

Both units chosen warriors, WS5, 2 base attacks each with rending. Palatines get Counter-attack (whoopteedoo) and shriekers (pretty good, although you don't really want to be fighting other WS5 elite units).

Command squad gets artificer armor on everyone, a 6+/5+ invulnerable, a fearless banner, and an extra wound on banner bearer. Can buy shriekers in 3rd company.

 

If you're taking large squads with apothecaries and combat characters, consider this:

8 Palatine Blades with 3 spears, 5 sabers - 235

8 Veterans with artificer/fist, 7 power weapons - 231

Again two WS5 A2 units. This time the Veterans only have one challenger/chosen warrior (with a power fist), but everyone gets power weapons. You wouldn't actually spend that much on power weapons probably just to have some cheap ablative wounds in the front ranks, I was just trying to make the costs similar. Shriekers again can be bought in the 3rd company.

 

Palatines are actually pretty solid in this configuration, at least outside of 3rd company, as a dedicated close combat unit.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Terminus

[Charlo]

I do think palatines should get a 6++ parry save or some kind of defensive mechanic. That would make them really good, maybe something to do with them having a 4++ against attacks of S4 or less, to represent them having a good chance at parrying them.

 

That way they gain a nice save against power swords, but Axes and Fists will still mulch them (as it should be).

 

But outside of wish-listing they are a solid unit when used well and suit EC perfectly. Apothecary gave them a great buff.

[01RTB01]

I run 10 with jump packs, 3 spears (not on the champion) and depending on points/ opponents, shriekers. Usually with a delegatus/eidolon and sometimes with a chaplain. A lot of points but we only have 3 legion specific units and I always run 2 of them. They may not be optimal but the models are too lovely not to use :)