Remtek Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 DC dreads and furioso dreads fill very different roles. With DC dreads you get a massive amount of high S, low AP attacks. 6 without buffs. Furioso only excels with the frag cannon. However, I'm not sure DC dreads are worth it anymore. The difference between WS4 and WS5 is significant for a single model unit that lives and dies on burst damage. The old DC dread was often my MVP, have to playtest them for a few games to see if they still rock. I think the new DC Dread is WS4, while the new Furioso is WS5. DC dread still hitting on 3's against mech and some units, but if vs ws4 looks like they have somewhat similar dmg output. I still prefer the DC (vs Furioso CC) dread from a Stormraven, but hitting on 4's vs many units is a pretty big hit (and no fleet). Overall i'm leaning towards the Libby Dread, seems like he has higher dmg output then both with primaris and very good for taking out MC and other characters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 So here's a question. I'm sure this is wrong but no rulebook on hand. Any independent character can join a character unless they are a monstrous creature. I'm about 70 that's the wording of the rule. Does that mean an IC can join the Libby dred as he is a character? That would be hilarious, termie storm shield captain or something If someone can check, I'm most likely wrong but it's a funny idea. Yeah. Captain with Artificer Armor and Storm Shield joind Librarian Dreadnought sounds awesome.. until you realize there's no way of transporting that unit.. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Raven can take both, though they wouldt be joined before disembark. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredster Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 On an unrelated to Dreads point, I'm liking the fast Razorbacks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 DC dreads and furioso dreads fill very different roles. With DC dreads you get a massive amount of high S, low AP attacks. 6 without buffs. Furioso only excels with the frag cannon. However, I'm not sure DC dreads are worth it anymore. The difference between WS4 and WS5 is significant for a single model unit that lives and dies on burst damage. The old DC dread was often my MVP, have to playtest them for a few games to see if they still rock. My experience is different, the AV13 really makes up for loss of attacks, and now with Shredding S10 the difference in A numbers will be even less significant. Being able to wade into a bunch of MEQ with no fear of Krak grenades makes the Furioso infinitely better in my mind.. With the old codex, I could see how the DC Dread could be very useful as a meatgrinder against orc/tau/eldar/guard blobs and the like; but with the new rules, I feel it's kind of out of place.. me too, being immune to krak in cc makes them much more survivable against marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 So here's a question. I'm sure this is wrong but no rulebook on hand. Any independent character can join a character unless they are a monstrous creature. I'm about 70 that's the wording of the rule. Does that mean an IC can join the Libby dred as he is a character? That would be hilarious, termie storm shield captain or something :P If someone can check, I'm most likely wrong but it's a funny idea. Character or not, it's still a vehicle and ICs cannot join vehicles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Be loyal to your local store. My bad... however my nearest store is a 45 minute journey by car and foot, and my car is 25 years old! For the benefit of the store, I would hope Games Workshop operate a common practice whereby online sales figures from customers within a certain geographic location contribute to the store's sales targets. Otherwise there's no incentive for them to refer customers online for products they don't have in stock etc... from what i understand you can order and pay for it at the store and it counts as their sales, though if you order it yourself online for pickup it won't count as part of their sales (which seems silly to me as you're making use of that stores existance so you're obviously invested in its continued operation.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Be loyal to your local store. My bad... however my nearest store is a 45 minute journey by car and foot, and my car is 25 years old! For the benefit of the store, I would hope Games Workshop operate a common practice whereby online sales figures from customers within a certain geographic location contribute to the store's sales targets. Otherwise there's no incentive for them to refer customers online for products they don't have in stock etc... from what i understand you can order and pay for it at the store and it counts as their sales, though if you order it yourself online for pickup it won't count as part of their sales (which seems silly to me as you're making use of that stores existance so you're obviously invested in its continued operation.) If that's true that sucks! Other retailers operate a system whereby even if you don't pick it up at the store (i.e. you order it direct from website for home delivery) it still contributes to your most local store's sales figures. Obvious benefit to the store but also a benefit to the web department because it means stores are incentivised to promote the website to customers. Apologies for off topic convo... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Yeah, the current GW method creates an environment where the supplier's webstore directly competes with stores that carry its merchandise. That's why they shaft them at every possible opportunity. They did not send a single box of Space Hulk to LGSs where I live, for example - sold them all online or to their own stores. It sucks, but it is what it is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen IX Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 So here's a question. I'm sure this is wrong but no rulebook on hand. Any independent character can join a character unless they are a monstrous creature. I'm about 70 that's the wording of the rule. Does that mean an IC can join the Libby dred as he is a character? That would be hilarious, termie storm shield captain or something :P If someone can check, I'm most likely wrong but it's a funny idea. Character or not, it's still a vehicle and ICs cannot join vehicles. It was a great visual though wasn't it, two mighty heroes of the imperium B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 DC dreads and furioso dreads fill very different roles. With DC dreads you get a massive amount of high S, low AP attacks. 6 without buffs. Furioso only excels with the frag cannon. However, I'm not sure DC dreads are worth it anymore. The difference between WS4 and WS5 is significant for a single model unit that lives and dies on burst damage. The old DC dread was often my MVP, have to playtest them for a few games to see if they still rock. My experience is different, the AV13 really makes up for loss of attacks, and now with Shredding S10 the difference in A numbers will be even less significant. Being able to wade into a bunch of MEQ with no fear of Krak grenades makes the Furioso infinitely better in my mind.. With the old codex, I could see how the DC Dread could be very useful as a meatgrinder against orc/tau/eldar/guard blobs and the like; but with the new rules, I feel it's kind of out of place.. Librarian Dreads are a character and can call a challenge then instagib almost any T5 character in the game now just put the Quickening on him. You have a fleeting monster with WS5, shred, AP2 and D3 initiative and attacks on top of his native I4 with Fleet. If you took this guy as the HQ of the Baal strike force he is already I5 so you are looking at an I6 minimum. Did I say he had force ?. This guy is another CC beast. Play tested Mephiston Dante DC Dreads and the Librarian. Both Mephiston and The Librarian Dread scar the pants off Eldar Wraith Knights. Dante and 10 DC using hit and run is hilarious at least for the BA player. I'm not entirely sure how Libby Dreads and Mephiston scare Wraithknights. The Wraithknight will likely by moving 12" and firing S10 Distort shots at them. Libby Dreads in particular really needed Wings. They're too slow and fragile. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Has it suddenly become a good idea to pack the stormraven full of units? a lot of people seem(ed) to think that that is too many eggs in one fragile basket. I too like the idea but possibly losing 500+ points to a single lascannon shot, sounds very risky. I am not convinced about this either. The SW Stormwolf generated a similar discussion. My hunch is that it is best to put a cheap but choppy unit in the Raven. I have seen CC Scouts mentioned and they fit the bill nicely and fill one of the mandatory Troop choices. Your Raven comes on from reserves and spends a turn or two straffing enemy positions or dogfighting. Mid-to-late game, drop into hover mode and drop off the Scouts to assault some back-field unit or claim an objective. If the Raven crashes and burns, they are pretty cheap. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Well the raven is worth its points with no transport capacity imo what you put in it is a minor issue, if you want to use the transport aspect at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Yeah, I don't trust the Raven as a transport. I've used it to transport dreads, and I could see for Mephiston (in 5th codex where it can't inta-death him). A cheap unit like close combat scouts seems like not a bad idea. Something it shouldn't matter that much if they die. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Yeah, I don't trust the Raven as a transport. I've used it to transport dreads, and I could see for Mephiston (in 5th codex where it can't inta-death him). A cheap unit like close combat scouts seems like not a bad idea. Something it shouldn't matter that much if they die. But..how will the chapter grow if all the initiates die in tragic stormraven 'accidents'? You sir are a cruel cruel man.. :-) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 A Tac Squad with Flamer+Heavy Flamer isn't THAT much more points than a Scout Squad. I don't see the issue here, it's not like I'm putting my Deathstar in it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Isn't the crash damage S10 AP2? marines don't fare any better under that damage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I don't believe it got discussed but I just noticed.. The Scout Heavy Bolter now has Hellfire Shells. That's a Heavy 1 Blast Poisoned (2+) profile weapon. Who cares if it's WS3, it's blast. Boltgun Scouts just got hotter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Nice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 If I recall hellfire is not blast just poisoned 2+ ap5 but I don't have the new codex so I could be wrong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 If I recall hellfire is not blast just poisoned 2+ ap5 but I don't have the new codex so I could be wrong. in C:SM its blast on the scout heavy bolter, sternguard shells are different, maybe thats the confusion? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just4uCupCake Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Guys the deathstorm box is killer man I love it I got it tuesday and Boy oh boy Its worth it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I don't believe it got discussed but I just noticed.. The Scout Heavy Bolter now has Hellfire Shells. That's a Heavy 1 Blast Poisoned (2+) profile weapon. Who cares if it's WS3, it's blast. Boltgun Scouts just got hotter. Does that ammo have a different range, 24" as opposed to 36"? Still good on mobile scouts - if it was 36" it might even be handy for sniper scouts instead of a missile launcher... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Dreads may be effective, but they are slow. That's why we use a raven to get them into combat. Difficult to hide from that. Riding the raven is relatively safe sine even if it gets shot down you no longer automatically take the S10 hit at rear AV. Comparing them to space wolf dreads aren't fair. Without allies they lack the very important storm raven deployment/redeployment option. The good thing about about a dread is that it's completely immune to certain form of attacks. Apply it in the correct place and they'll shine. Probably not going to be my only HQ anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I don't believe it got discussed but I just noticed.. The Scout Heavy Bolter now has Hellfire Shells. That's a Heavy 1 Blast Poisoned (2+) profile weapon. Who cares if it's WS3, it's blast. Boltgun Scouts just got hotter. Does that ammo have a different range, 24" as opposed to 36"? Still good on mobile scouts - if it was 36" it might even be handy for sniper scouts instead of a missile launcher... 24" range is true. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/90/#findComment-3887795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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