m_r_parker Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I'm planning to do a general round-up of my experience at the Weekender this evening - should hopefully put a lot of things in context, and answer some of the common questions (e.g. "What happened at the <> Seminar?") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron-Daemon Forge Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I'm planning to do a general round-up of my experience at the Weekender this evening - should hopefully put a lot of things in context, and answer some of the common questions (e.g. "What happened at the <> Seminar?") Just to ask if you went to the Stone & Iron seminar? Been difficult to find much on this right now & be grateful to hear about this :D The weekender did look like a brilliant event & I'll need to look into attend one next year. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdemayo Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I'm not up to speed on things that aren't in Betrayer, so can someone explain who this fancy daemon guy is? Samus?Samus turned up in the first book to, he possessed a Luna Wolf. He's a recuring Daemon character who keeps coming back, in total he's currently returned three times afaik.Horus Rising, Know No Fear and? Vengeful Spirit Huh. Read it twice, I don't remember that haha. He possesses Serghar Targost at the end and then jumps into another body I believe He's also mentioned in the Gaunt's Ghosts book Blood Pact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_r_parker Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I'm planning to do a general round-up of my experience at the Weekender this evening - should hopefully put a lot of things in context, and answer some of the common questions (e.g. "What happened at the <> Seminar?") Just to ask if you went to the Stone & Iron seminar? Been difficult to find much on this right now & be grateful to hear about this The weekender did look like a brilliant event & I'll need to look into attend one next year. Thanks. Yeah - I did sit in on this one. To sum it up (and I think I might have already done it in this thread), it was a comparison of how the two legions view their roles and how they handle war / conflicts. There was nothing new per-se to report on, it was very much a "fluff perspective" given by John French and Alan Bligh. Very good seminar, but difficult to translate to a board like this as it's heavily reliant on the telling by the talkers (who frankly are paid to make pretty words and statements, I'm not). I'll get what I can down for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 What is this about Dorn being incorruptible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 also, it looks like we may get blood angels and dark angels with book 6 .... take it with salt though: Khall Sithis, 8 February 2015 at 21:31, Battle Bunnies Sanguinius and Lion due to the whole Imperium Secondus thing. Also a good place to put in the small Thrammas and Signus conflicts. Sorry this was confusing :s I was not aware of Edgar working on a Primarch, but now I am; my opinion has changed to Simon - Guilliman then Corax as above and Edgar on Perturabo No offence to the Angel fans, but I so hope this is BS. Not only are (to my knowledge at least) Signus and Thramas at least on the same approximate scale as Phall and Paramar (and therefore can justify their own book, not being bolted on to what looks to be the Ultras show, for better or worse), but putting yet more Legions before the Sons/Wolves? That leaves all kinds of bitterness in my mouth.Actually Thramas would be on scale with the war in Ultramar. Both were sector-spanning crusades after. But assumption is that either of these will be involved with Signus or Thramas since the book is focusing on the Shadow Crusade, where we know there are splinters of both Legions involved. Well that kind of supports the point I was trying to make. So Thramas is a fight comparable to the Ultramar war and Signus was a Legion strength deployment (as far as I'm aware). These are major events for the Angel Legions, and they deserve at least dual billing in an 'Angels of Death' book, rather than playing second fiddle to three Legions that have already go their spotlight time. I'd be against shoehorning the Scars into Prospero for the same reason, The Legions deserve their own dedicated time on the sun. Just do Prospero first . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I dunno how the Thramas Crusade was on the scale of the Ultramar War, it was one legion chasing another legion from planet to planet afaik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Thramas wasnt anywhere near the scale of Ultramar. The fighting could barely be called such. Then the Night Lords got battered twice and that was basically it due to dark angels xenos love. And then proceeded to bring a supersize indiscriminate killer to ultramar to help Roboute feel secure. Doesnt deserve half a book in my opinion. The ultras deserve the attention because fluff demands it, when the siege comes all 18 will have been fairly depicted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Thramas wasnt anywhere near the scale of Ultramar. The fighting could barely be called such. Then the Night Lords got battered twice and that was basically it due to dark angels xenos love. And then proceeded to bring a supersize indiscriminate killer to ultramar to help Roboute feel secure. Doesnt deserve half a book in my opinion. The ultras deserve the attention because fluff demands it, when the siege comes all 18 will have been fairly depicted Lol the same could be said about about the Shadow Crusade and Ultramar, "Word Bearers mess up Ultras at Calth and proceed to go hand-in-hand with the World Eaters burning away worlds in the Ultramar system. Then Angron becomes a daemon after whooping Guilliman's ass." There. Summed up the whole conflict just like you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 We do not know to the extent of which the Thramas Crusade occurred, as there hasnt been too much written about it. Besides the 2 novels showing the seeds of insurrection forming, intermixed with a little campaigning. I believe we have only had a couple of short stories. The Thramas Crusade would cover a lot of stuff such as: space battles, small scale engagements, Primarchs going 1-on-1, presumably larger set pieces plus zone mortalis ship fights etc. Things maybe covered in other books but with new twists and elements. Outside of Thramas, you have the Lion fighting Typhon and the Death Guard for xeno tech, and a Dark Angels strike force taking on the SoH plus Dark Mechanicum to stop Horus gaining ordinatus engines (which he propmptly hands over to Perturabo Which would be city fighting/ planet strike. So if you set it up right yu have all the diferent elements to set up a DA book, plus other legions, auxillia, admech, BFG etc... New units, leaders etc... New Curze complete with slashed throat ( I think was one of his wounds which saw him defeated by the Lion) and a more depraved NL detachment as their bitterness and hatred fully takes hold... Dedicated NL scenarios for duels such as sevatar and corswain or lion and haunter, ambushes, NL terror missions etc, it goes on... DA deserve a HH book in their own right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Depends how you judge scale (using Lexicanum for info here btw). The majority of two Legions engaging, resulting in more than a quarter of the Night Lords fleet being destroyed (not to mention what I'm assuming was a reasonably substantial number of DAs too). It seems a reasonably safe assumption that a greater proportion of both the I and VIII were involved in Thramas than their equivalents in the XIII/XVII at Calth, so the scale seems similar enough to justify half the attention Calth is getting. As it stands, this is the major thing the DAs (and NLs to a lesser extent) have done in the Heresy. Hell, the bush wars Horus and Mortarion fought post Istvaan have got a book, that's much more insignificant than two Astartes Legions, both relatively unscathed beforehand, going at it. Now I'm no major fan of the I Legion, but to claim that the Ultras deserve 2 books, while the DAs shouldn't even get half of one is not a fair depiction to my mind. Or would you make the First wait until after Terra and have the Fall of Caliban as thier 'Horus Heresy' outing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Exactly, I would honestly love to see a BA/DA book that covers Signus and Thramas. I feel that is a great way to bring both Leigons in. But for God's sake, I am totally okay taking a backseat to Wolves and 1k Sons. The Burning of Propsero happened before the Horus Heresy even broke out, it's getting insulting that they are starting to delve into events that are balls-deep in the heresy without addressing a cornerstone engagement of the entire war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I dunno how the Thramas Crusade was on the scale of the Ultramar War, it was one legion chasing another legion from planet to planet afaik.The Thramas Crusade was a war spanning the entire Thramas Sector. The Dark Angels would dig in on planets and the Night Lords would attack those planets and then leave faster than the I Legion could respond, resulting in the I Legion having to refortify the planet, only to leave somewhere else in a weakened state. Which the Night Lords would then attack. This would go on until Tsalgualsa when Curze would parley with the Lion. A parley which the Lion broke and would result in the Dark Angels losing one captain and both Legions withdrawing with no clear victor. Both primarchs were literally dragged from the field of battle still trying to fight each other. Following this, the Lion would secure a xenos warp drive which would allow him unparalleled travel through the warp. Which culminate in the simultaneous transit of his entire fleet right next in orbit to the Night Lords at Sheol. There, Curze would suffer over one hundred fatal-to-Astartes injuries and the Night Lords would lose a confirmed one-fifth, suspected one-fourth of whatever forces they had there, which is believed to be a decent bulk of the Legion. Helterskelter: Refer to the above. There was only one defeat. And I guess you're right. Ultramar wasn't a war so much as a slaughter since at least 108 worlds were destroyed within the opening moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Space Wolves defending my Dark Angels?! Space Wolves?!?! Tis the dawning of a new age. You guys want to go to Terra with us? You can ride shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 We may not have to "like" the Dark Angels, but we can respect them. Sure lets head for Terra, first we got to get out of yhis space cloud and dodge some pesky Alpha Legionarries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Space Wolves defending my Dark Angels?! Space Wolves?!?! Tis the dawning of a new age. You guys want to go to Terra with us? You can ride shotgun. Of course brother, this is the Heresy after all. Desperation makes for strange bedfellows and all that . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyvern Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 *cough* remember the Ophidium Gulf brothers >< *cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 *cough* remember the Ophidium Gulf brothers >< *cough* Hey bro this is 30k still :D We may not have to "like" the Dark Angels, but we can respect them. Sure lets head for Terra, first we got to get out of yhis space cloud and dodge some pesky Alpha Legionarries :D Quick question though, do I need to take you on walks and scratch behind your ears? :P I do want to see a development of competitive friendship between the Vlyka and Angels though. I feel their animosity is usual a result of them actually being close brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I do want to see a development of competitive friendship between the Vlyka and Angels though. I feel their animosity is usual a result of them actually being close brothers. I dunno, the impression I always got was that the two Legions were more antagonistic during the GC/HH era. This then mellowed at the finale of the Siege of Terra, when Russ and the Lion realised how little their petty rivalry mattered in the grand scheme of things. They then forged a stronger relationship/friendship during the wars of The Scouring. But then again, precious little of the old fluff is surviving into the Modern HH series, so who knows? It would certainly be an interesting change of pace for the series, examining the relationship between two fractious, yet Loyal Legions. Although tbh I'd settle for a proper SW focused book (as PB was more Hawser's story than the VI's). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I play Iron Hands and all this talk of friendly camaraderie makes me robo-sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 How can you be robo-sick?? I didnt think emotions could be computed and quadatically equated?? :p Meh, there was always a rivalry between the 2 Legions, mainly becuse only Jonson and Horus had more victories than Russ.. Plus the fact that the DA have no sense of humour ;) From old lore after their fight where Jonson sneakily knocked out Russ, the 2 did develop a friendship or atleast a mutual respect over time, which wasn't totally shared by each of their legions... Hence the 2 champions duke it out when the 2 chapters meet (in 40K) as has now become tradition. Oh and you only need to let me out when I scratch the door post, but I do need plenty of walkies or I'll chew your slippers and the Ravenwings tyres to bits out of frustration/ boredom. Anyhoo, you bring the plasma cannon barbecue, and we'll get the mjod chips and dips :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Signus was a Legion strength deployment (as far as I'm aware). These are major events for the Angel Legions, and they deserve at least dual billing in an 'Angels of Death' book, rather than playing second fiddle to three Legions that have already go their spotlight time. tbh, Signus wasn't thaaaat bigger than Phall .... and with the upcoming plastic release of Ka'bandha (Signus-Prime main antagonist, see http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302400-rumours-bloodthirster-chaos-kabandha-will-get-a-model/?p=3945551 for a leak) it wouldn't make sense to do more than one chapter of a HH book about Signus ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Signus was a Legion strength deployment (as far as I'm aware). These are major events for the Angel Legions, and they deserve at least dual billing in an 'Angels of Death' book, rather than playing second fiddle to three Legions that have already go their spotlight time. tbh, Signus wasn't thaaaat bigger than Phall .... and with the upcoming plastic release of Ka'bandha (Signus-Prime main antagonist, see http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302400-rumours-bloodthirster-chaos-kabandha-will-get-a-model/?p=3945551 for a leak) it wouldn't make sense to do more than one chapter of a HH book about Signus ... Simple question, was the entire/majority of the Blood Angel Legion deployed to Signus? If the answer is yes, then it's a more major deployment for the IX than Phall was for the VII, as only a third or so of the Fist's manpower (and a bit more proportionally of their fleet) was involved in the latter. I also don't understand how the existence of a plastic Ka'bandha changes how much space the BAs should be given in their initial FW Heresy outing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Lets hope plastic Ka'Bantha is able to be posed back-bent-over Sanguinius' knee when he gets released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Simple question, was the entire/majority of the Blood Angel Legion deployed to Signus? If the answer is yes, then it's a more major deployment for the IX than Phall was for the VII, as only a third or so of the Fist's manpower (and a bit more proportionally of their fleet) was involved in the latter. I also don't understand how the existence of a plastic Ka'bandha changes how much space the BAs should be given in their initial FW Heresy outing. simple question, why should the blood angels get a special snowflake treatment? all the other legions had get their "initial HH outing" either at Istvaan (yeah, that much time to shine!) or in the case of the Fists at Phall .... and Signus was just Blood Angels (alongside one unit of Word Beares and one unit of Space Wolves) vs Khorne and Slaanesh daemons, they fought essentially just two times during the Signus novel (first against the scrap golems and later on the main planet against daemons) .... as i said, one chapter (like Phall/Paramar) would be fine, but an entire book (even alongside Thramas, which was just DA vs NL)? that would be more a lackluster book than conquest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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