Horus Heresy Weekender 2015 news: Book V Tempest

[Jolemai]

Lets hope plastic Ka'Bantha is able to be posed back-bent-over Sanguinius' knee when he gets released.

They'll both be out before Dorn...

[Slips]

Lets hope plastic Ka'Bantha is able to be posed back-bent-over Sanguinius' knee when he gets released.

They'll both be out before Dorn...

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/oh-heeeell-to-the-no.gif

[Brother Heinrich]

Don't even care how much space they get. Just give me :cussing rules so I can actually do something cool and fluffy with my Blood angels aside from "Furious Charge".

[Atia]

Lets hope plastic Ka'Bantha is able to be posed back-bent-over Sanguinius' knee when he gets released.

They'll both be out before Dorn...

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/oh-heeeell-to-the-no.gif

I've heard Dorn will be out the same week as Dark Angel shoulder-pads Slipstreams <3 (so, after SoB, Squats and Sanguinius dying :D)

[Slips]

Don't even care how much space they get. Just give me :cussing rules so I can actually do something cool and fluffy with my Blood angels aside from "Furious Charge".

On a very technical level, Furious Charge is actually fluffy due to 40k....

 

...

 

Yeah, lets actually get some cool rules and :cuss up in here. I really want to attempt making my BA Angels Wrath "Here a :cuss ton of flyers - deal with it /shades" list a reality.

[Raktra]

How can you be robo-sick?? I didnt think emotions could be computed and quadatically equated??

We vomit spark plugs, y'see.

[Jolemai]

Don't even care how much space they get. Just give me :cussing rules so I can actually do something cool and fluffy with my Blood angels aside from "Furious Charge".

 

I realise this isn't the place but are you that disenchanted with our new 40k Codex?

[Leif Bearclaw]

Simple question, was the entire/majority of the Blood Angel Legion deployed to Signus? If the answer is yes, then it's a more major deployment for the IX than Phall was for the VII, as only a third or so of the Fist's manpower (and a bit more proportionally of their fleet) was involved in the latter. I also don't understand how the existence of a plastic Ka'bandha changes how much space the BAs should be given in their initial FW Heresy outing.

simple question, why should the blood angels get a special snowflake treatment? all the other legions had get their "initial HH outing" either at Istvaan (yeah, that much time to shine!) or in the case of the Fists at Phall .... and Signus was just Blood Angels (alongside one unit of Word Beares and one unit of Space Wolves) vs Khorne and Slaanesh daemons, they fought essentially just two times during the Signus novel (first against the scrap golems and later on the main planet against daemons) .... as i said, one chapter (like Phall/Paramar) would be fine, but an entire book (even alongside Thramas, which was just DA vs NL)? that would be more a lackluster book than conquest

So how should they do the BAs/DAs? Roll them in with Chondax for the Scars in 'Horus Heresy Volume 8: Best of the Rest'? The point I've been trying to make is that tacking those two Legions onto the Shadow Crusade is a bad idea, and does a disservice to those Legions, tacking them onto events they were barely involved with. Not to mention taking up space that could go to exploring the descent into Chaos of two Traitor Legions (assuming all the rest will get theirs further down the line). It's not 'special snowflake', just wanting all the Legions to get their fair dues.

[Ishagu]

I'm disenchanted with having to share the Ultramarines book with a bunch of other chapters :-P

[Fire Golem]

I think Chondax, Thramas and Signus would fit okay into one book. Or maybe Chondax and Thramas, and Signus and daemons.

[Slips]

I'm disenchanted with having to share the Ultramarines book with a bunch of other chapters :-P

Oh woe to thee not part of the Istvaan Books! :p

[depthcharge12]

A remake of the Angels of Death (BA/DAs) would be pretty cool.

[Ishagu]

 

 

I'm disenchanted with having to share the Ultramarines book with a bunch of other chapters :-P

Oh woe to thee not part of the Istvaan Books! :p

It's quite alright, I collect Sons of Horus in my spare time ;-)

[Atia]

 

 

So how should they do the BAs/DAs? Roll them in with Chondax for the Scars in 'Horus Heresy Volume 8: Best of the Rest'? The point I've been trying to make is that tacking those two Legions onto the Shadow Crusade is a bad idea, and does a disservice to those Legions, tacking them onto events they were barely involved with.

i (and khall sithis from battlebunnies) NEVER SAID that they should tacking DA/BA into the shadow crusade .... but i can see the 7th book including the Shadow Crusade (first chapter), Underground War (second chapter), Signus Prime (third chapter) and the Siege of Sarum (fourth chapter with DA vs Dark Mechanicum) (much like book three had istvaan V: hunt for corax, Paramar and Phall)

[DuskRaider]

Honestly, I think they should just skip Dorn and do more Death Guard. I mean, Dorn just sits in the Palace the whole time anyhow.

[Brother Heinrich]

 

 

Don't even care how much space they get. Just give me :cussing rules so I can actually do something cool and fluffy with my Blood angels aside from "Furious Charge".

I realise this isn't the place but are you that disenchanted with our new 40k Codex?

Actually no not at all, but this isn't about 40k. This is about legions without rules only getting to pick "Stubborn" or "Furious Charge" to represent their traits. When night lords or imperial fists have like 5 different rules that suit them and you get "Furious Charge" for the next two years, it's pretty annoying.

[m_r_parker]

STONE & IRON SEMINAR:

This was a surprisingly good seminar. Alan Bligh and John French explored the similarities and differences between the Imperial Fists and the Iron Warriors.

 

The first part was Imperial Fists with John French.

To be fair, the majority of the discussion about the Imperial Fists didn't reveal anything particularly new about the Imperial Fists. In the Great Crusade they were well known for their combined ability to break sieges, and also post-compliance build upon defences and stongholds to ensure that worlds did not fall after they moved on - and this reflects two of their more extreme aspects of the legion that are mirrored in their two more successful captains, Sigismund and Polux. Seen as one of their main drivers is the upholding of oaths that they have sworn, and the personal honour that each Imperial Fist has in the oaths that they swear.

In discussion about upholding their Oaths it's briefly discussed about the Temple of Oaths on the Phalanx, where Imperial Fists are brought as part of their induction into the Legion to make their Oaths to the Legion, the Emperor and the Imperium. The Temple itself is maintained / guarded by the Templar Bretheren under Sigismunds command, and they take their duties with absolute determination - only the Templar Bretheren, Dorn, and the Emperor can enter the Temple, and the Bretheren will attack anyone who tries to access the Temple. Apparently even other Primarchs have to be invited by Dorn before they are permitted inside, such is their duty the Bretheren have.

 

The second part of the seminar was given over to Alan Bligh to talk about the Iron Warriors. The Iron Warriors are built on the singular vision that the Emperor had for the Legions. When you wanted the enemy scared, you sent in the Night Lords. If you want them in awe, you send in Sanguinius and the Blood Angels. When none of the above work and the enemy is buried in, then that honour falls to the Iron Warriors to dig them out. For the Iron Warriors and Perturabo the application of war is different than for the other legions, as Alan Bligh explains, the war is simply an equation that needs to be solved and failure doesn't come into it. To solve the equation may take excessive force or extensive casualties, but simply walking away and giving up doesn't factor into it at all. Hence the Iron Warriors have the highest casualty rate of the legions - they're used to crack the hardest targets, and they have some of the highest success rates despite of this. Also, when they do win, there's generally no need to ever go back again - either there's nothing left, or whoever is left knows enough not to drift away from Compliance. From being used in this way there comes a sense of little appreciation from the Emperor and the Imperium, which eventually drives Perturabo towards Horus' side. Further betrayals from other traitor force drives this paranoia even deeper to the point where Perturabo only accepts the word of the Warmaster (and even constructs his robot bodyguard to protect him from threats external and internal to the legion), and this is even pushed to the limit as he is 'persuaded' to engage the Imperial Fist fleet (where it isn't even known how many loyalist ships will be present, whether the Phalanx or the Raptoris Rex will be present, as to which the Warmaster decides to hold back his own Legion and assign this wholly to the Iron Warriors).

 

There was some good Q&A. The topic of whether Dorn could fall to Chaos was debated. I don't recall it being explicitly stated that Dorn was 'immune to Chaos', but more that as he was the most "loyal" of the Emperors sons there wasn't much the Chaos gods could use to tempt him with. This was mainly down to his nature, and his desire to follow orders, uphold his oaths, and to do the right thing. This was why the Emperor chose Dorn to return to Terra as he left the Great Crusade, not because he was the most trusted or loyal or favored of the primarchs - but because the Emperor knew that Dorn would follow whatever orders he gave without question. The Emperor knew he needed someone to stand guard whilst he worked on the webway project that would be resolute in their duty, not letting anyone in including themselves. The comparison was 'what if the Emperor chose Magnus?' In theory Magnus would be an ideal choice in that he's a supremely powerful psyker and respects knowledge - but if he was tasked to stand guard and not let anyone in he would until he got bored (maybe 5 minutes or so), poke his head around the door and be "What are you doing? Need any help with that?" - With Dorn that door wouldn't be opened under any circumstance, no matter how curious he became because Dorn follows orders.

 

Another question was around whether they would go into detail around why Dorn chose his captains to take control of the subsequent chapters - to which Alan responded with "Or does he?" with a glint in his eye. There were a couple of times during the seminars where Alan would throw into the mix that the information on the scouring and the second founding is based on a viewpoint from the future, and that the concept of "and after a couple of years they split into chapter, went home and lived happily ever after" may not be the case - nobody actually knows what happens during that time, and especially the friction between the likes of Dorn and Guilman over the Codex Astartes. Then we got a bit more about the nature of Polux and Sigismund and the third Captain (can't remember his name). Sigismund is the fire and zeal of the chapter and is the figurehead of the Great Crusade mentality of constantly going forward. Polux is the opposite, he is the pragmatist and the defender. Where Sigismund is brash and emotional, Polux is calculated, and Dorn moves between the two depending on the situation. The third captain is described as a middle-point between Polux and Sigismund.

 

There was also a question on what the Iron Warriors would do if they ever came across an enemy that they couldn't defeat, or a situation that couldn't win - their kobayashi maru. For the Iron Warriors the question of defeat wouldn't come into it, it would be the calculation of the equation and working out what is needed for it. usually it would be applying more force - whether that's troops, or vehicles or guns. If the enemy has 10,000 tanks, they deploy 20,000 and so-on. If the numbers don't work, or they don't have the right weapons then they make better weapons and guns - eventually going down the route of warp-forged weapons when they get into the Eye.

 

Obviously there were questions around models and rules, especially for the Iron Warriors (i.e. "Are we going to get Forrix as a character"), and these were generally avoided. A common theme was that anything was possible "when we come to the Iron Warriors again". Whether that means there are already plans for more IW content in the near future, or this is just a generalisation that most of the Legions will be visited in the books more than once, I don't know. Nothing was ruled out, yet nothing was really confirmed. I wouldn't take that as confirmation that nothing more is coming for the IW yet - these guys obviously have a list of stuff they're allowed to talk about and reveal, and anything not on the list is not for discussion.

 

 

That's pretty much all I can remember from that Seminar - it was a fantastic piece to listen to, but trying to document the musings of an author and professional writer as they openly discuss topics is always going to be difficult without smuggling in a dictaphone and writing a transcript.

[Emperor's Furor]

Was the other Captain Demetrius Katafalque? He became the founder of the Excoriators and has already appeared in Imperial Truth.

[Slips]

It was either Kataflaque or Archamus.

[coloroutofspace]

Silly question... so what does the Delegatus Consul do one more time?

[Slips]

Silly question... so what does the Delegatus Consul do one more time?

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303013-horus-heresy-weekender-2015-news-book-v-tempest/?p=3943836

[depthcharge12]

Anyone hear what the weapons were supposed to be/do on the Thanatar Calix?

 

All I've heard was a graviton fist that can smack fortifications and shoot a template. They said the cannon on top was a lascannon :( I was hoping it'd be more of a neutron beam weapon or a super photon cannon but I haven't heard anything else

[tdemayo]

also, it looks like we may get blood angels and dark angels with book 6 .... take it with salt though:

Khall Sithis, 8 February 2015 at 21:31, Battle Bunnies

Sanguinius and Lion due to the whole Imperium Secondus thing. Also a good place to put in the small Thrammas and Signus conflicts. Sorry this was confusing :s

I was not aware of Edgar working on a Primarch, but now I am; my opinion has changed to Simon - Guilliman then Corax as above and Edgar on Perturabo

No offence to the Angel fans, but I so hope this is BS. Not only are (to my knowledge at least) Signus and Thramas at least on the same approximate scale as Phall and Paramar (and therefore can justify their own book, not being bolted on to what looks to be the Ultras show, for better or worse), but putting yet more Legions before the Sons/Wolves? That leaves all kinds of bitterness in my mouth.

Actually Thramas would be on scale with the war in Ultramar. Both were sector-spanning crusades after. But assumption is that either of these will be involved with Signus or Thramas since the book is focusing on the Shadow Crusade, where we know there are splinters of both Legions involved.

Well that kind of supports the point I was trying to make. So Thramas is a fight comparable to the Ultramar war and Signus was a Legion strength deployment (as far as I'm aware). These are major events for the Angel Legions, and they deserve at least dual billing in an 'Angels of Death' book, rather than playing second fiddle to three Legions that have already go their spotlight time. I'd be against shoehorning the Scars into Prospero for the same reason, The Legions deserve their own dedicated time on the sun. Just do Prospero first .

I think there's another factor to consider, also. It's not just "how big were the forces involved" but also whether the conflicts have a sufficient degree of complexity to fill a book. Signus is confined to one system and a single rather straightforward conflict. I doubt demons will get a list at all, since theres the 40k codex. So what does that leave for a second list? As a story, and a source of games, they'd need to expand it somehow to make a book.

The Calth conflict, by contrast has several interesting new forces and units, and a years long undergone conflict.

The Thramas crusade covers many systems. They could make it as big as they liked with very little effort.

But, yeah, I'd like to see Blood Angels and Dark Angels receive rules sooner rather than later, and have the maximum amount of story and information. A lot of the delay seems to result from the limitations on Forgeworld's ability to produce models and books with its rather small team.

[Kol Saresk]

But that small team does such great work. Of course, I wonder how much time condensing Vraks into a single novel took and if it is happening to the Badab War.

[Kor'Vesh]

Thanks for taking the time to write all that m-r-Parker. It's awesome to get that kind of insight into the FW seminars, and it can't be quick to put that much info together. Whatever you think about release orders, hearing how they talk about the legions (aside from reading the books) just reassures me that we are in great hands!