[HH1.0] The Sons of Barbarus : A Death Guard Tactica Thread

[CaptainBoxman]

BoP Mk IIIs are cheap on the Evilbay if you need lots of bolter dudes quick and cheap.

[Herald of Magnus]

True! I think if I get two squads of 15 in my army and then trim a few points out I'll still have around 400 points available to play with for sure. So much choice!

[infyrana]

Found some cheap MkIII legs from the Prospero set and working out what I can do with them.  So I figured I might grab the Scythe set and create a few sergeants who I don't have to magnetise.  But then there's the remaining legs...

 

Do I:

 

- Create a new HSS team with LasC, Plasma, Volk or HB's (not really feeling it).

- Up either my Missile Launcher or my Heavy Flamer HSS from 5-man to 10-man (last time I read on the ML squad, expensive and still not viable for AV14 etc).

- Up my (no guns assigned) Tactical Support Squad from 5-man to 10-man and give them all Flamers (fun, but I have the HF HSS).

- Up my (no guns assigned) Tactical Support Squad from 5-man to 10-man and give them all Meltaguns (a slim chance of hitting AV14 at least, they'll get a rhino for a ride).

- Up my (no guns assigned) Tactical Support Squad from 5-man to 10-man and give them all Plasmaguns (because 2+ saves).

- Go spherical objects against the wall, spend a little extra and create a 15-man jump pack assault squad for my DC with some PW's, maybe shields and a serg with Scythe?

 

The last option for an assault squad could have potential with the Reaping and Rad grenades etc for a change of pace.  Not sure how or what to model 15 combat shields with though (ideas appreciated please!).  I have a 20-man tactical squad, or I could do 2x 15-man tacts, or I could do 2x Vet squads, or I could finally build my Breachers and do a 20-man of these as a second compulsory.  Either way there are options but unless I want to start using MkVI for loyalist DG, there will only be one jump unit :)  Two normal Sicaran's, two LR's and up to 4 Rhinos all possible as transports with lots of walking dreads and other things, but not a single drop pod to help.

[1ncarnadine]

Volkite Culverin HSS, Caliver Tac SS, Flamer Tac SS, Heavy Flamer HSS, or plasma guns. All are decent units to have (or have more of) in the Death Guard toolbox, but what you go with should depend on what your army needs and what you face.

 

Although the assault squad could be awesome. Keep them cheap, maybe like 4 out of 15 power weapons and a Scythe is fine. My take would be very plain and battered shields; there are some shields from old Bretonnian kits that might do the trick? Or you can hold on, as it sounds like FW might actually release a Heresy combat shield set in the future.

 

Another option, a vet squad with combi-plas and regular plasma would have great utility if you don't have some already. Could be sprinkled with tacs to form Vet units with 2-3 combi-plas as well as 2 plasma guns per 10 models?

 

A Flamer TSS can be useful when you want Chem-flamers, have Heavy Support filled, and are running a Rite other than The Reaping so can't take the HSS as a non-compulsory Troop choice.

[infyrana]

Thanks for the feedback!  Sadly my DG army doesn't see games (it has a shelf life! lol) so I've never bought into the best anti Spartan/LoW/Deathstar unit (ie no Venator, Spartan, Fellblade, Grav-Rapiers etc) and feel this is where I lack most.  But I do enjoy adding a few troops with the new kits when they come out :)

 

Yeah 3 or 4 power weapons was what I had in mind too along with plain shields (I'd rather practical than fancy).  Having said that I took on board your comment with Bretonnian shields, I have 20 metal 'wood' looking coffin lids that were designed to be shields, they are the closest thing I have to use but might look a bit unique/odd, guess I'd just pin them to the back of an arm or 'plant' them in the ground around the model.

 

Interesting idea with the Vet squads and combi's, I don't actually have any heresy combi weapons left so I might have to look into that as an alternative.  You've suggested Plasma which I think would be great against command squads or terminators, but would a Melta version of the unit have similar potential or less so?

 

You're right about the Flamer TSS vs the HSS squad, I'm sure I've asked before but 5-man, 7 or 10 for both squads?

[Plaguecaster]

Are plasma cannon heavy squads any good I've converted up a few Nurgle plasma cannon squads as I love all things plasma so wondering if they would be any good for my heresy death guard force which has fallen to Nurgle

[LtDan]

Make a heavy flamer/combi flamer vet squad!. With marksmen trait. Because sniper flamers lol

[Charlo]

Are plasma cannon heavy squads any good I've converted up a few Nurgle plasma cannon squads as I love all things plasma so wondering if they would be any good for my heresy death guard force which has fallen to Nurgle

Sure, they work great with interceptor to annihilate any would be deep strikers.

[1ncarnadine]

Interesting idea with the Vet squads and combi's, I don't actually have any heresy combi weapons left so I might have to look into that as an alternative.  You've suggested Plasma which I think would be great against command squads or terminators, but would a Melta version of the unit have similar potential or less so?

 

You're right about the Flamer TSS vs the HSS squad, I'm sure I've asked before but 5-man, 7 or 10 for both squads?

 

Melta can be pretty alright. People tend to assume it's useless due to all the Armoured Ceramite in the Heresy, but it has its place nuking certain units that tend not to take it, if you can get close enough. That'd be Predator/Rhino chassis vehicles, Dreadnoughts, Sicarans, Knights, and anything at AV12 or lower even if it has Armoured Ceramite. It can also Instant Death multi-wound T4 models, but at the end of the day I'm pretty sure it's a pretty equivalent number of wounds inflicted compared to plasma, and definitely less vs non-multi-wound units. 

 

Still, all around Plasma has better utility. It's great for anti-Character/Primarch shooting, counters Terminators and other Legion elite units, has the weight of fire and strength to deal with automata, and is going to have a strong place vs Custodes. In a pinch it can still take on some of those vehicle targets if you can get side/rear (try not to shoot AV13, basically. AV11 is fine). With Vets, you can get two plasma guns for reliable plasma, then fill up with combi-plasma (as much as you think you need) for the rest of the unit, and do fine with Sniper bolters & x2 plasma guns after the combi-weapons are spent. 

 

Flamer squads don't need to be huge. 6-8 is fine (7 getting fluff bonus points), because it gets difficult to deploy more templates.

[Charlo]

You can't really argue with the effectiveness of shredding, "rending" template weapons. Lots of AP2 to be had there, plus the ignore cover because template.

 

Remember too, don't take heavy flamers as they fire separately, so you get less hits on those or the other templates depending on which shoots first. Regular flamers are fine - or some plasma to just pile on the AP2 and finish off the stragglers.

[infyrana]

You can't really argue with the effectiveness of shredding, "rending" template weapons. Lots of AP2 to be had there, plus the ignore cover because template.

 

Remember too, don't take heavy flamers as they fire separately, so you get less hits on those or the other templates depending on which shoots first. Regular flamers are fine - or some plasma to just pile on the AP2 and finish off the stragglers.

 

I take it you mean not to put heavy flamers in a Vet squad?  Didn't know about the firing separately part (I really should grab the 7th ed rules!), was that in 6th too somewhere?  Looks like Flamer and Plasma vets might be next on my 're-fits' list.

 

 

Speaking of alternative models, I was also looking for some cheap Rapiers.  I know a few people already use the PDC Gaming versions and wondered if there's been any objection at all?  They have a triple barrel gun I'd use as the quad mortar and a weird gun I could use for either the Grav or LasD for a solution to spartans.  Grabbing 6 of these is as cheap as buying a Vindicator to convert into a LasD and might go a long way in upping my anti-AV14.  Thoughts most appreciated please!

[Angmarred]

He meant don't take Heavy Flamers and regular Flamers in the same squad. If you do you fire one type, resolve and remove casualties, then when the other type fires the enemy is no longer in good template formation.

[infyrana]

Gotcha, thank you, that makes perfect sense :)

[infyrana]

Speaking of Flamers, do you guys run the Heavy Flamer on your Grave Wardens, or a straight 5x Grenade Launchers with Scythe on the Chem-Master?  Just wanted to know which one I should glue down or if I need to magnetise.

[Charlo]

They have deathcloud which is basically the same in every way.

 

Grenade launchers are better IMO.

[infyrana]

Thanks Charlo, that settles that unit.

 

I've just treated myself a little to some of the Prospero MkIII marines, going to make a squad of 15 assault marines with jump packs for my DG (Serg with Scythe/Rad nades, 3-4 PW's and combat shields).  Are there any further tricks I can do to make the most of this unit please like adding an apothecary with JP or a specific Consul etc?

 

 

Finally, I've been racking my head around anti AV14+FS options following the thread "Best ways to deal with AV14 by shooting".  Of the things on that list I own, nothing is better than the single Contemptor Mortis LasC.  I love my dreads and infantry, so I spammed a bit of Grav across my walking Contemptor fists, Leviathan's and Breacher unit etc.  I'm looking at the list and know that my cheapest option would be the Graviton Rapier Batteries - would a unit of three be sufficient?

[Angmarred]

3 grav rapiers will likely kill a Spartan in 2 turns. If you go second that might be too late.

[Charlo]

Depends how you want to do it... Haywire is the easiest, but three Graviton is slow, & can be outmaneuvered. 

Grav Landspeeders are pretty great, but don't expect them to survive long.

Laser Vindicators are nice, but still fishing for 6s.

 

The Lightning with Kraken Pen missiles is really the be-all-and-end-all of things.

 

...Unless you ally in some Mechanicum.

 

Really though, again, always play like that Spartan IS going to reach your lines and dump it's Cargo - in which case, you can't really get a better unit to take the charge than Grave Wardens!

[LtDan]

I'd only take the h flamer if play alot of zm as it will be str6

[infyrana]

Charlo: Well after a bit of careful refitting, I've fixed my five Grave Wardens with 2x Chainfists all with Grenade Launchers - they have an LR for transport so won't be growing in numbers.

 

You say 3 Rapiers are slow and might not do so well, would increasing their number do the job, or still the same underlying problem?

 

My only Mechanicum is a Praevian with 2x Castellax w/Darkfire (I so wanted that Siege Automata but didn't want the Archmagos etc).  I had thought about an Imperial Knight (love my walkers), but when I could afford one I didn't believe they could be fielded as an LoW or allied unit etc.

 

Flyers and Landspeeders aren't my thing at all and a pair of Vindi's or Venator don't fit the budget atm and fight for my heavy slots - hence the cheap Rapier conversion route.  Shame the Vindi's don't come in kit form as I have some Rhino chassis spare (they were unmade from a few years back when I was looking at the Big Momma vindicator kit).

 

LtDan, yep I have 2x Contemptors with dual grav fist and I'm re-fitting my boxnaughts with a few grav fists too, but no pods, my Levi's have a Grav+Claw and CML+Drill, but again no pods to get them in position early.

[Charlo]

The Darkfire Castellax will give AV14 a decent go, as with a previan you can give them tank Hunter, which is nice.

 

Add in a few dreads with dial grav and you might have a solid few HP strippers at your disposal.

 

Dreads have the added benefit of being excellent counter charge units if that spartan does make your lines.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Charlo

[Chaeron]

I'm just mulling over a few lists as it stands, and as ever, I will look to use Mortarion and a Siege Breaker (with the Creeping Death RoW, naturally). When I last had a few games, I used Typhon as well and then had a rather glorious big unit of those, with Deathshroud in a Spartan. That said, I'm wondering whether a generic Praetor (with Paragon Blade, and various other tools), might be a better option - or indeed, whether to dispense with the option of another HQ choice and invest it in more Troops choices. I'm most likely going to run with two large (20-strong) Tactical Squads with Apothecaries as standard, but I'm just wondering if perhaps something like Veterans or similar would offer a useful addition over a more robust character, especially for missions involving scoring objectives. Any thoughts all?

[disease]

Lets not let this die..

 

can Death Guard ever be 'competitive'?  

[Charlo]

They're mighty competitive. I just don't think they have any no brainer super choices like some other Legions.

 

Mortarion is stupidly good and we get amazing Terminators.

 

Plenty you can do with that!

[Brother Castle]

What are the thoughts on a infantry heavy list? I'm looking to build a 3k list with a base of 2 or 3 20 man blobs running the reaping. How would you support such a thing?