[HH1.0] 30k Ultramarines tactics

[shandwen]

With my comment about tank hunting: he does all the work. A vet squad for ablative wounds or even a regular tac squad can be his escort. You just need to screen the unit so big nasty elite infantry is avoided.

[ronin_cse]

So if putting a primarch into a LR or Spartan with an escort is too much of a points sink then how else would run a primarch? Disregarding the faster ones already mentioned.

[Frater Cornelius]

There isn't. I suppose you could stick him into a Tactical blob with Apothecary or have him enter a Pod/Claw with 5 dudes and then they go separate ways once the enemy is in arm's reach. However, you risk losing your Primarch to some very angry AP2.

 

But it sort of fluffy, no? Most Primarchs wouldn't take the field without a worthy escort. Neither would a king in the olden days.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Immersturm

[Ishagu]

Guilliman in a Raider is still a great unit, imo.

Opponents see it and panic. Put the Raider behind heavy cover if you don't have turn 1 and they'll burn firepower into it.

 

Also, you only really need to flat out once to get quite far across the table.

 

You need to maximise the firepower of your other units to remove the key threats to either the Landraider or to the Primarch if he ends up on foot. It's why I run all the Sicarans, Deredeo and Quad Mortars :-)

[steve!]

Hey folks,

 

I'm pretty new to Heresy and I decided I wanted to do a siege/armour themed ultramarines force. I'm aware that other legions do this better however I really like Ultras.

 

I have a partial list and I was wondering if I could get input on where to go next? I'm stuck on deciding HQ choices as well. I have 2000pts decided on and I'm aiming for a 2500pts force.

 

Any comments or criticism is welcome!

 

+++ Ultramarines (2005pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) ++

 

+ Troops +

 

Legion Tactical Squad [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Nuncio-Vox]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist]

 

Legion Tactical Squad [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Nuncio-Vox]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist]

 

Legion Tactical Squad [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Nuncio-Vox]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist]

 

+ Elites +

 

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought [Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons]

 

Legion Quad Launcher Support Battery [3x Legion Rapier, Shatter Shell]

 

Legion Quad Launcher Support Battery [3x Legion Rapier, Shatter Shell]

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Legion Artillery Tank Squadron [Legion Medusa, Legion Medusa]

 

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank [Lascannons]

 

Legion Vindicator Siege Tank Squadron

····Legion Vindicator Tank [Laser Destroyer Array]

····Legion Vindicator Tank [Laser Destroyer Array]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [XIII: Ultramarines]

[Ishagu]

The Ultras are actually pretty good at running this kind of list.

Interlocking tactics boost the power of our shooting units quite a bit :-)

 

Your list, as it stands right now, is very strong. You can simply add a basic HQ, attach him to a small veteran or support unit. Perhaps a Forge Lord who can hang back to repair those tanks?

[Runefyre]

The Ultras are actually pretty good at running this kind of list.

Interlocking tactics boost the power of our shooting units quite a bit :-)

 

Your list, as it stands right now, is very strong. You can simply add a basic HQ, attach him to a small veteran or support unit. Perhaps a Forge Lord who can hang back to repair those tanks?

People really underestimate the power of interlocking tactics, especially when coupled with Fury of the Legion. Steve!'s list really does take full advantage of this, plus I like the look of mounted armies more than footslogging ones (those wouldn't survive in the real world ). And yeah, a FL looks like your best bet for a budget HQ.

[Ishagu]

It's true, it's basically preferred enemy :-)

[Ishagu]

So... has anyone got any interesting War Stories or battles with the Ultras to share?

[Runefyre]

While I technically only own an ultramarine's sicaran, leviathan, and delegatus, I've played proxy ultra lists using my space wolves (I've got 2 rhinos on the way, and quite the list of additional purchases to truly bring my ultras to life ). Another note is that I play in a heavily 40k meta, only my brother and I play legion armies (though there is some cursory interest brewing amongst the other dudes). Anyway, my latest game was 4000 points (2v2 with each person bringing 2000 pts), my ally took guard and my brother (who took word bearers) had DA allies. It ended in a draw after a rather uneventful game, the only really interesting thing was when I called a whiff on my bro, who then proceeded to roll double 1's with his contemptor mortis, 2 times in a row! the warp is a fickle mistress. My big takeaway is that leviathans desperately need a pod, my brothers (who did have a pod) rampaged through my allies guard lines while mine was wasting time footslogging desperately to get in range.

[shandwen]

This might be a bit odf-topic, but i must correct this. "those wouldn't survive in the real world"- not all that true. In an open battlefield it leans towards this but proper use of implacements will mitigate the advantage of a Heavily Armored unit (light armor ends up in a huge disadvantage). In a city perhaps the strongest force is that of light infantry supported by some heavy armor. You need bodies and eyes, the protection given by APC's is nearly irrelevant (US marines are taught to disembark and protect their trucks when stopped as vehicles turn into sitting ducks in urban combat. In the invasion into iraq most USMC companies had one or two (unarmored open back) humvees to provide resupply and medevac to their companies while under fire.

The application for 40k is that vehicles support infantry, and if you rely on your troopers to kill not all of them need rides. 40k doesn't punnish vehicles with the loss of perception like reality does, and rhinos are cheap, so they are not a tax at all though...

[Runefyre]

I see your point, I guess I had GW's rather unrealistic artwork in my head when I made that comment (the cover of Horus Rising comes to mind). I fully realise that there are scenarios were dismounted infantry (spearheaded by a tank squadron, and supported by jet fighters) are the best approach to an engagement. There's a tactic for every scenario, just like Guilliman planned!

[GreyCrow]

I had a pretty interesting battle while trying out different list philosophies before I set on any purchase against Alpha Legion. 1000 points, I had 30 Tacticals on foot in 2 squads, a cheap Consul (I think I was using a Chaplain, can't remember precisely), and 3 Executionners with Lascannons.

The Alphas had a POTL list with 30 Vets in Rhinos I think and infiltrated forward while I kept my Predators in reserve. When my Predators got out of Reserves, it was a bloodbath, killing almost a squad a turn (finished by interlocking tactics).

I'm starting to think that the Ultras are pretty flexible in terms of builds, as long as you have a decent amount of bodies as well as a strong coherency in the support units so that they act together on similar targets. It's probably the Legion with the least Tactical flavour (Interlocking Tactics is quite unremarkable compared to other Legiones Tactics, but it's a cool bonus to have for sure), but the Ultras have the potential for vastly different and efficient playstyles it appears and offer a tad more freedom than the other Legions when it comes to army structure.

 

EDIT : So I guess this thead, rather than trying to figure out what it is to play Ultramarines, is more going to be about "how can I play my Ultrmarines" :D We should definitely make a log of the different Ultramarines Forces around here and their preferred tactical style.

For me, I'm really digging the "line and cavalry" aspect that I got from Roman Tactics while studying for the Ultramarines. Having a decently solid line along with units capable of a powerful and decisive action.

 

As I'm playing a relatively "light" Raven Guard army (in terms of vehicles), I'm starting to really want to make a mechanized assault force for the Ultramarines' battle line with Rhinos, Terminators/Suzerains in Land Raiders, supported by a cavalry element of either medium tanks (I do like the ability of the Predator to just follow multiple roles and I have 2 Vindicators which would love to see more action !) or either a large number of Skyhunters because Jetbikes are kick ass :D 

ÉDIT 2 : I mean, even Guilliman emphasize some form of repeated units.
Imagine 3 squadrons of Predators with Tank Hunters, tee hee

On another note, Ishagu will know how much I try to understand the Logos My current thinking is that it is a ROW for people who "just" want to spam line units (Troops, Terminators, Dreadnoughts) along with their DT a few heroes/HQ to buff them.
Not particularily interesting for me but it could work I guess

Edited March 30, 2016 by GreyCrow

[GreyCrow]

Aside the Tactical Squad, what would you guys picture as units that are iconic of the Ultramarines Legion ?

[Ishagu]

Everything lol

The Ultramarines excelled in every theatre of War and mastered every combat style :-)

[Runefyre]

I agree with Ishagu, but if I HAD to pick one unit (apart from tacticals), I'd say breachers (preferably equipped with power swords), the Roman Legion vibe I get from those is incredible!

[Charlo]

I agree with Ishagu, but if I HAD to pick one unit (apart from tacticals), I'd say breachers (preferably equipped with power swords), the Roman Legion vibe I get from those is incredible!

 

Genuinely a unit I am super jealous of. That new Zone Mortalis RoW where they all get +1 to invulns would be madness with those!

[Ishagu]

Suzerains aren't much more expensive in truth...

 

They are also probably the most iconic Ultra unit considering the 40k Honour Guard are basically these guys with less impressive cc weapons

[GreyCrow]

So it wouldn't feel weird if I fielded a copious amount of Jetbikes to act as a cavalry for my battle line ? :p

[caladancid]

Suzerains aren't much more expensive in truth...

 

They are also probably the most iconic Ultra unit considering the 40k Honour Guard are basically these guys with less impressive cc weapons

 

This is why I just use Suzerains. The breachers have the benefit of not needing Guilliman to be troops, and being less expensive to purchase (money), but the points cost for a unit of ten is so close to a unit of Suzerain that might as well take the better guys.

 

Just as an aside, I converted a unit of ten with the power swords from the blood angels death company boxes. Those swords are all right handed.

[Reyner]

 

Suzerains aren't much more expensive in truth...

 

They are also probably the most iconic Ultra unit considering the 40k Honour Guard are basically these guys with less impressive cc weapons

 

This is why I just use Suzerains. The breachers have the benefit of not needing Guilliman to be troops, and being less expensive to purchase (money), but the points cost for a unit of ten is so close to a unit of Suzerain that might as well take the better guys.

 

Just as an aside, I converted a unit of ten with the power swords from the blood angels death company boxes. Those swords are all right handed.

 

You got any pictures? I have 10 breachers on my desk and I am toying with giving them swords... 

[Charlo]

The great thing is you don't even have to give them ALL swords. Just how many you want.

[GreyCrow]

The great thing is you don't even have to give them ALL swords. Just how many you want.

 

Indeed, but why would you now want to give them all swords ? What makes a unit effective is the shared gear and stats (unity of tools, which is where the etymology from unit came from in the first place). The 1 in 3 and 1 in 5 upgrades available to Legionaries are more of a quality of life/convenience uprgade over anything else.

It's true that it is a 100 points upgrade, but it makes a decent porcupine unit ^^

 

EDIT : 

 

Out of curiosity, what would you guys think of a list along the lines of :

 

30 Tacticals in Rhinos

5-9 Support Marines in Rhinos with Plasmaguns (Ventanus goes in here)

5 Cataphractii with Power Fist in a Land Raider

5-8 Suzerains in a Land Raider (Guilliman goes in here, perhaps with a Consul like a Chaplain or Librarian)

 

3 x 10 Jetbike units with 3 Volkites and meltabombs in each (roughly 1470 points, I went for that points value because I have a feeling the total cost of my line units will be around 2k and I think it's a pretty efficient repartition between line and cavalry)

 

I won't have the cash to achieve this army any time soon, but I want to test an idea with your feedback. The idea with the first part was to have a mobile line in transports (so I take the Terminators as a line unit rather than a Hunter Killer unit, no expectation of damage there).

Then, following on the "cavalry" theme (in terms of tactics, cavalry meaning any formation of units with enough damage projection and raw damage to achieve a local decisive victory somewhere), a large number of Jetbikes with different deployment options, in multiple squads to take advantage of Guilliman's Preternatural strategy to choose between the 3 rules depending on what's needed. Usually, Jetbikes held in reserves while the line tanks the shots until it's time to unleash the Jetbikes.

 

The goal of that cavalry would be primarily to gank the enemy line units to provide line advantage to my own line units, then mop up the enemy's own cavalry and fire support units.

 

Obviously, a similar result can be achieve with different cavalry units (even tanks), so I was curious about what you guys would think of the Jetbikes. :)

Edited March 31, 2016 by GreyCrow

[Charlo]

I like it! Always a chain fist on the Termies though for the utility.

 

Always forget that Suzies are not bulky so you can put them in a raider with papa G.

 

Its a gambit list to an extent, but I think the list will do well. I'd advocate a MoS in the plasma team. BS5 with interlocking tactics is very nice.

 

Plus then you can even get a Damocles Command Rhino in the same slot and a bombardment and help with bringing the bikes in :D

Edited March 31, 2016 by Charlo

[Flint13]

That list will be super fun to play, but it's going to struggle hard against any sort of armor since it looks like it's limited to close combat and a couple lascannons.

 

At that high of a points level (assuming you're set on a deathstar unit with Gulliman, Suzerains and a consul) if go ahead and invest in a Spartan. It's going to be a tough slog in that high a points cost game either way though. A well balanced list at that points level isn't going to have much of a problem killing a single land raider and leaving the primarch stranded :/