[HH1.0] 30k Ultramarines tactics

[TompiQ]

So I posted this list idea over at h30k and got "mixed" opinions in response.

 

HQ

-Sicaran Battle Tank w. Dozer & Lascannons, 180pts (Master of Armour)

 

Elites

-Sicaran Battle Tank w. Dozer & Lascannons, 180pts

-Sicaran Battle Tank w. Dozer & Lascannons, 180pts

-Sicaran Battle Tank w. Dozer & Lascannons, 180pts

-Sicaran Battle Tank w. Dozer & Lascannons, 180pts

 

Troops

-Predator w. Dozer & H.Bolter sponsons 100pts

-Predator w. Dozer & H.Bolter sponsons 100pts

-Predator w. Dozer & H.Bolter sponsons 100pts

-Predator w. H.Bolter sponsons 95pts

-Predator w. H.Bolter sponsons 95pts

-Predator w. H.Bolter sponsons 95pts

 

Heavy Support

-Sicaran Battle Tank w. Dozer & Lascannons, 180pts

-Sicaran Battle Tank w. Dozer & Lascannons, 180pts

-Land Raider Phobos w. Dozer 255pts

 

LoW

-Roboute Guilliman 400pts

 

2500pts,13xAV13 hulls of the 13th. Would be fun to watch someone play the list seeing as it requires way more efficient movement than most to ensure optimal firing lanes and taking return fire on the front armour. Ought to be a decent matchup for the questoris knights mentioned above aswell. Armoured companies are the bees knees when it comes to fluff too.

 

Still, does it give off too much of a waac vibe?

Edited May 27, 2016 by TompiQ

[Charlo]

Welp. That is certainly something!

 

In terms of fluff though it's so cool - Guilliman in a LR co-ordinating an armoured strike? Hell yeah.

 

Only thing I'd say is get some Sicaran Venators in the Heavy Support. That way you can shut down super heavies that could potentially tear through your lines.

[Terminus]

In 30K it would have issues with scoring and thus you'd always be playing for a tie, but in 40K it might just be the right spammy approach.

 

Anyway, I can see this being extremely powerful to face depending on what you have with you.  A foot-slogging army would struggle against so much dakka, and similar armoured divisions would struggle against all the S8/S9 spam.

 

I would try my hand against it, though, just to see what happens.  My orbital assault list would probably be fine, as you would be unlikely to handle two Leviathans in pods in your deployment and a terminator death star hovering above.  My foot gunline would probably struggle some more, they should be able to erase 3-4 vehicles per turn, but the return fire would be blistering. It would come down to dice, I think, and maneuvering on the tank player's part.  If I manage to keep at least one of my four scoring units alive, I should win on VP if not bodycount.

[TompiQ]

Actually, there's no rule in 30k stopping vehicles from scoring (there seems to be a common misconception that there is), so the predators would be scoring due to being troops. And beyond that, if the mission happens to favor scoring, you can add Implacable Advance to the seven Sicarans if you forego tank hunters (you'd have to weigh the value of either choice depending on your opponents army). 13 scoring hulls is a fearsome prospect!

 

Orbital assault would definitely be the lists primary weakness, especially as I haven't invested in Armoured Ceramite. I guess the best strategy would be to elect for interceptor on the sicarans, try to blast away the most urgent threats as they arrive and then Flat Out away during the players own shooting phase since most drop pod AT is short ranged... But that's if you survive the alpha strike!

[Caillum]

I think you might need to change your HQ option. In Armoured Breakthrough, if you take a Master of Armour he is the Warlord. Guilliman also has to be the Warlord. And you can't take 2 choices that both must be Warlord.

 

This isn't a bad thing. Take a Forge Lord or Chaplain to buff Guilliman, and he can tank wounds, counting as Toughness 6 due to majority Toughness! :)

 

This much AV13 would be brutal for Iron Hands.

[Terminus]

Right you are, I think this may have been in some draft or rules expansion that barred vehicles from scoring but my book VI only denies it to dedicated transports.

 

That probably puts this list as over the top for a good 75%+ of the lists I see on here, but your mileage may vary.

 

The Alpha strike won't be that brutal since you aren't squadroned. A podded Leviathan is a 400 point unit that can only kill one ~150-200 point tank per turn.

 

Sad to say, but spamming a unit is the best way to get mileage out of Guilliman's USR. Brutal.

[shandwen]

I would love to see a batrep with this army. (So would forgeworld as that is quite an order.)

[IronDrake28]

I think you might need to change your HQ option. In Armoured Breakthrough, if you take a Master of Armour he is the Warlord. Guilliman also has to be the Warlord. And you can't take 2 choices that both must be Warlord.

 

This isn't a bad thing. Take a Forge Lord or Chaplain to buff Guilliman, and he can tank wounds, counting as Toughness 6 due to majority Toughness! :)

 

This much AV13 would be brutal for Iron Hands.

The FAQ says that Primarchs are the exception and always overrule other characters.

[Caillum]

Ah, so it does! That's cool - makes it easier to make some of the more unusual army builds. :)

[exsanguis]

Hey guys,

 

Thoughts on this for a Pride of the Legion based list @ 2k? I'm trying to make the most of Interlocking Tactics:

 

Praetor - Iron Halo, Paragon Blade, Melta Bombs, Pride of the Legion

Suzerains x5 - Land Raider Phobos

 

Veterans x10 - Rhino, 2x Heavy Bolters, Vexilla, Sgt with Artificer Armour & Power Fist, Sniper

Veterans x10 - Rhino, 2x Heavy Bolters, Vexilla, Sgt with Artificer Armour & Power Fist, Sniper

 

Sicaran Battle Tank - Lascannons

Sicaran Venator - Dozer Blades

Leviathan - Cyclonic Melta Lance, Siege Drill, 2x Calivers, Phosphex, Dreadnought Drop Pod

Points: 2000

 

[Terminus]

I assume that since "you will gain no Warlord benefits from the subordinate characters", you don't get BS5 or command tank upgrade for HQ tank.

[TompiQ]

I assume that since "you will gain no Warlord benefits from the subordinate characters", you don't get BS5 or command tank upgrade for HQ tank.

It's an odd one and could be interpreted either way, I suppose, but I'm leaning towards that as well. "Instead of rolling for a Warlord Trait, this vehicle has the Command Tank vehicle upgrade and has +1 BS at no additional cost." seems to require having the option to roll for the trait in order to receive the bonus.

Edited May 29, 2016 by TompiQ

[exsanguis]

So I posted this list idea over at h30k and got "mixed" opinions in response.

 

HQ

-Sicaran Battle Tank w. Dozer & Lascannons, 180pts (Master of Armour)

 

Elites

-Sicaran Battle Tank w. Dozer & Lascannons, 180pts

-Sicaran Battle Tank w. Dozer & Lascannons, 180pts

-Sicaran Battle Tank w. Dozer & Lascannons, 180pts

-Sicaran Battle Tank w. Dozer & Lascannons, 180pts

 

Troops

-Predator w. Dozer & H.Bolter sponsons 100pts

-Predator w. Dozer & H.Bolter sponsons 100pts

-Predator w. Dozer & H.Bolter sponsons 100pts

-Predator w. H.Bolter sponsons 95pts

-Predator w. H.Bolter sponsons 95pts

-Predator w. H.Bolter sponsons 95pts

 

Heavy Support

-Sicaran Battle Tank w. Dozer & Lascannons, 180pts

-Sicaran Battle Tank w. Dozer & Lascannons, 180pts

-Land Raider Phobos w. Dozer 255pts

 

LoW

-Roboute Guilliman 400pts

 

2500pts,13xAV13 hulls of the 13th. Would be fun to watch someone play the list seeing as it requires way more efficient movement than most to ensure optimal firing lanes and taking return fire on the front armour. Ought to be a decent matchup for the questoris knights mentioned above aswell. Armoured companies are the bees knees when it comes to fluff too.

 

Still, does it give off too much of a waac vibe?

What about this for a slightly different take:

Forge Lord - AA, Boarding Shield, Legatine Axe, Melta Bombs, Rad Grenades, Augury Scanner (Joins Guilliman in the Spartan)

 

Predator - HB Sponsons

Predator - HB Sponsons

Predator - HB Sponsons (Anti-infantry dakka)

 

Predator - LC Sponsons

Predator - LC Sponsons (Transport poppers)

 

Sicaran - Lascannons

Sicaran - Lascannons

Sicaran - Lascannons

 

Spartan - Ceramite, Flare Shield, Dozer Blade (Guilliman and Forge Lord go here)

Sicaran Venator

Leviathan - Melta Lance, Siege Drill, 2x Volkite Calivers, Phosphex, Drop Pod

 

Roboute Guilliman - Armoured Breakthrough

Pts: 2495

 

The Leviathan allows podding in turn one allows you time to get the rest of your armour into optimal firing positions (DISTRACTION CARNIFEX!) whilst also (hopefully) popping the enemies meanest tank. If Guilliman somehow ends up in melee, he has Defensive Grenades and Rad Grenades to help him bash something to death, and the Forge Lord can repair his Spartan too!

[Grim Dog Studios]

Hi all.

Just a quick question regarding rhinos. I can't decide between running two 10 man tac squads in rhinos, which would benefit more from Interlocking Tactics with the rhino shooting first, or to go the way of 15 man tac squads. Either that or mix it up a bit and have a 20 man, and a 10 man in rhino combo. What are your guy's opinions on this??

[Ishagu]

Definitely stick to squads of 10 in Rhinos :-)

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

Questoris allied detachment for Ultramarines at 2500pts, brothers? Thoughts? Misses out on the interlocking tactics rule, better to avoid allies and keep all the big toys 'in-house' so they benefit from Legion rules, or are Questoris Knights really that good?

[Charlo]

Knights are a meta thing really.

 

You'll either be the bad guy and murderise everything with your stompy monsters, or you'll be eaten by turn two leaving you at an 8/900 point deficit.

 

Rule of cool though? The Crusade calls! Hail your knightly brothers!

 

I will say, at 2.5k though you aren't getting much more from the Legion list than HQ, Troops and a unique unit or two.

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

Knights are a meta thing really.

 

You'll either be the bad guy and murderise everything with your stompy monsters, or you'll be eaten by turn two leaving you at an 8/900 point deficit.

 

Rule of cool though? The Crusade calls! Hail your knightly brothers!

 

I will say, at 2.5k though you aren't getting much more from the Legion list than HQ, Troops and a unique unit or two.

 

Those were my thoughts - they're a powerful addition but they leave enough lacking from the main Legion list to raise a bit of a question mark over their inclusion. I'm definitely getting a pair as I've never painted anything larger than a Land Raider before and the Renegade box is too good to pass up, I just wanted to know other players' thoughts before I did. I suspect it'll be a Marmite thing as you've indicated - people will either love them (and wipe them by turn 2) or hate them (and cry cheese). I'll run them where appropriate.

[Charlo]

I'm doing the same if I'm honest!

 

I'd get a FW knight as they are a little more destructive, but also cost almost double a Renegade box :|

[Charlo]

So, due to an upcoming project my eyes have been drawn to Fulmentarus Terminators.

 

My Militia and cults Squats could use them as the ultimate Exo Armour, using the warlord trait to give the Krak Missiles AP2

 

siege tyrants were my first choice but they aren't sworn brothers so.....

 

They are a VERY expensive unit though I have discovered, though perhaps not over costed copared to Tyrants considering for 15pts per model extra you get +1BS and then the possibility of night fight, tank hunters and -1 to cover saves.

 

I'd be looking into running an allied detachment of a Preator (with Armoured breakthrough RoW), a troop predator and then the Fulmentarus themselves.

 

How do they perform - anyone got experience?

Edited June 9, 2016 by Charlo

[Runefyre]

Fulmentarus are expensive as hell, but if managed properly they'll earn their keep. 10 krak missiles (at 5 members) is still 10 krak missiles no matter how expensive, and they are rightly feared by meqs and tanks alike.

 

The last time I used mine (a 5 man squad) they chewed a levi and his pod to pieces in two turns, and put down several gal vorbak.

 

They are perfect against castellax (or castellans if fighting mechanicus). And when taken in the Logos Lectora, if you give them autocannons they can snap shoot at bs2 twin linked (provided they stand still). Though cmls still provide enough volume of fire to guarantee afew solid hits.

 

Hope this helps!

[Charlo]

Aye it does - thanks. Now imagine what they'd do with AP2...! Primarch retinues will be scared of that. Justaerian, Deathshroud & Firedrakes getting ID from failing an invuln.

 

They are like the bastard child of Tyrants and Havocs, which I always struggle to choose between!

 

While the cost is frightening, because they'll be an ally to me for militia and I can take a predator as troops (HELL YEAH HERESY!) it's okay, no troop tax with the militia squads balancing it out for cost. For example, for just under 200 points I can get a 20 man unit of T4 3+ BS4 dudes that shoot S4 at 30 inches with extra shots from rotor cannons also at S4. FNP costs them a further 20pts. Also get a Vexilla and power weapon/ MB on the sarge...!

 

If there was a way for me to get another heavy support in allied for UM I'd take a Deredeo to sit with them and provide a 3++ but there is just no way to do it.

 

UM also offers me the potential for Suzerains. A minimum unit can stand in my back line, counter charge and buff the low leadership of my troops, hell with a discipline master in there they'd go to LD10 with stubborn!

[Ishagu]

How arw you upgrading the ap value of weapons?

[Charlo]

How arw you upgrading the ap value of weapons?

 

 

My Militia and cults Squats could use them as the ultimate Exo Armour, using the warlord trait to give the Krak Missiles AP2

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323061-merchant-princeling-allies/

 

The wonderful world of Militia and Cults my friend!

 

A slight hitch in my armoured breakthrough plan though, as I would need a DT for the Terminators, which means either I keep them at 5-men and get a Proteus or have to run a different RoW Or take some *shudder* Tacticals... I think Pride with some Standard Terms in a claw may be better than taking a LR/ Spartan dedicated.

[TompiQ]

 

How arw you upgrading the ap value of weapons?

 

 

My Militia and cults Squats could use them as the ultimate Exo Armour, using the warlord trait to give the Krak Missiles AP2

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323061-merchant-princeling-allies/

 

The wonderful world of Militia and Cults my friend!

 

A slight hitch in my armoured breakthrough plan though, as I would need a DT for the Terminators, which means either I keep them at 5-men and get a Proteus or have to run a different RoW Or take some *shudder* Tacticals... I think Pride with some Standard Terms in a claw may be better than taking a LR/ Spartan dedicated.

 

 

 

If you want the Fulmentarus Terminators I wouldn't go armoured breakthrough. The price of 5 Fulmentarus and a transport is not worth it. If you're using this strategy you're much better off running a ten man squad, as that's where you'll see a decent (albeit not great) return of investment, but that squad is 700 points, and they want to remain on your table half and fire each and every turn to make those points back. A spartan would bring them over a thousand points and would be counter-intuitive to what I said about firing every turn, so it too is a poor investment.

 

700 points for 10 T4 2+/4++ wounds is obscenely expensive. But with your warlord trait they will put out 20 BS5 S8ap2 shots at 48" range, with -1 to cover, tank hunters and night vision. It's a lot of eggs in one basket, but they'll completely obliterate anything you point them at short of AV14.