Electro Priests

[Frater Cornelius]

@ ronin_cse - That is indeed an option. However, you will need 8 units for that. I suppose it will work well in the WD Formation, because you will have enough dudes.

If Priests could go to ground, it would be an amazing way to counter alpha strike, but I suppose at that point a 2+ cover save works just as well most of the time.

Is there even a Priest and Kataphron character who would be able to take it?

[Vel'Cona]

I think your only option would be to take more Dominus'.  Not sure that's a cost-effective choice, though.

[ronin_cse]

@ ronin_cse - That is indeed an option. However, you will need 8 units for that. I suppose it will work well in the WD Formation, because you will have enough dudes.

If Priests could go to ground, it would be an amazing way to counter alpha strike, but I suppose at that point a 2+ cover save works just as well most of the time.

Is there even a Priest and Kataphron character who would be able to take it?

 

Just referring to taking the Dominus in the unit since they don't have their own character upgrades, and yes I am personally planning on running the WD Formation most of the time. Since the Electro Priests can't go to ground my Dominus will most likely be in a Kataphron squad in B2B with my IK. I suppose a 2+ cover might help them survive just as well though, especially with FnP.

 

Well as I mentioned a bit back I'm kind of a sucker for the art (and in general it seems ;)   ) so I ended up buying two boxes of the damn things...guess we'll see how they do! I still can't decide if I want to do Fulgurites or Corpuscarii though. Everyone seems to agree the Corpuscarii are better, and they are probably right, but I like that the Fulgurites can threaten most vehicles as well, which would help them get their 3++ too.

[Charlo]

While expensive, I think there's some arguments for units of 20 priests. Corps with a Dominus to tank will survive and obsurd amount of fire and the other kind can quite easily win something and then claim the 3++...

 

Defiantly a go big or go home unit.

 

Plus, if you have 20 of those combined with the Kastellan formation... Ouch.

[Teetengee]

If only they were half the cost and twice the minimum size, they might work alongside everything else. But then they would need to sell a bigger box.

[Vel'Cona]

I think there's a lot of validity to the school of thought that GW intended these to be the Troops choice, then realized they'd lose too much money if they made them $39 for a 10 man box (like the Skitarii).  Instead, they finagled the codex to make the Kataphrons Troops, as they would be a high profit margin since you'd need 3-4 $59 boxes to use the codex.  The result is that the Electro-Priests had to be redesigned late into the release, and the designers threw together what they could to make them fit the new role but didn't have enough time to playtest.

 

Hopefully I can avoid tinfoil-hat accusations, but I believe this is a plausible reason for why the Electro-Priests ended up as they did.  It smacks of the 3rd edition Tau release, which went through several major overhauls before release, with a final product that was pretty but ultimately completely unsuited to the 40k environment of the time.  Hilarious in hindsight given that Tau are now a leading army (thanks to 6th edition Assault Phase nerfs!).

 

As is, I think the only viable use of the Corpuscarii is to either put them in allied Drop Pods or a Land Raider (or other large capacity transport).  I've tried to rationalize the Fulgurites, but really I think players are making a mistake if they go for them.  Dedicated CC units really need to be either cheap and numerous (Ork Sluggas) or hard hitting and durable (Thunderwolf Cavalry).

[PraetorDragoon]

Theories like that are fun and all, but don't change the Elektro Priests, sadly. 

 

Corpuscarii can be done easily because they are pretty decent in low numbers. (min-units help Canticles as well)

 

Fugurites need to be big because of Assault only and the fact that they need to destroy an unit. I think the best way for this is to charge a vehicle (transport mostly) and destroy it to gain that juicy 3++. 

 

Definitly not a tournament-level unit. But who frequents those ;)

[Scurvydog]

I think the "logic" behind their design is based on canticle effects. Priests are the ones who benefit most from a strength increase if that canticle is used, same with the one which does 1-3 str4 I10 hits for each model in close combat. Outside the WD formation with skitarii, only the priests put these buffs to proper effect. They are also the cheapest MSU to buff the canticle effects for the entire army, which might make them needed for at least pure cult armies, who wishes to benefit from the maximum canticle effects.

 

I would guess the design of them could be based on moving a handful of priest units in front of the rest of the advancing cult army, grabbing objectives and providing the number of units in order to get stuff like stealth+shroud, which makes the priest hard to kill and whatever precious units behind them even harder.

 

With enough canticle units even a 5 man unit of priests could activate 15 str4 hits at I10 in an assault, and the dakka variant can return fire reasonably against infantry. 

[DeStinyFiSh]

I think there's a lot of validity to the school of thought that GW intended these to be the Troops choice, then realized they'd lose too much money if they made them $39 for a 10 man box (like the Skitarii).  Instead, they finagled the codex to make the Kataphrons Troops, as they would be a high profit margin since you'd need 3-4 $59 boxes to use the codex.  The result is that the Electro-Priests had to be redesigned late into the release, and the designers threw together what they could to make them fit the new role but didn't have enough time to playtest.

 

Hopefully I can avoid tinfoil-hat accusations, but I believe this is a plausible reason for why the Electro-Priests ended up as they did.  It smacks of the 3rd edition Tau release, which went through several major overhauls before release, with a final product that was pretty but ultimately completely unsuited to the 40k environment of the time.  Hilarious in hindsight given that Tau are now a leading army (thanks to 6th edition Assault Phase nerfs!).

 

As is, I think the only viable use of the Corpuscarii is to either put them in allied Drop Pods or a Land Raider (or other large capacity transport).  I've tried to rationalize the Fulgurites, but really I think players are making a mistake if they go for them.  Dedicated CC units really need to be either cheap and numerous (Ork Sluggas) or hard hitting and durable (Thunderwolf Cavalry).

 

Sounds logical to me... to be honest, Priest feel like Standart, Kataphrons feel like Elite... at least for me.

 

It seems like I am the only one not falling in love with the models. I like the gauntlets, but that`s it. That`s why I will properbly never field them in a game...

 

WRT the rules: I think they are playable in large numbers.

The Canticles and the Formation let them hit realy hard. Give them Shrouded and Stealth in round 1 and 2 (use it twice with Battle Congregation) and the opponent will not be able to kill all of them. And then push their stenght or give them the additional lightning attacks as needed.

But this means you realy have to dedicate your army to the priests and you must be a rich person to buy all the models.

Can be even more fun by adding Ruststalkers / Infiltrators, but the point costs will add up realy fast then.

 

 

BTW: I only play fun games, I guess in a more competative game there are much better options for the same point costs.

[Frater Cornelius]

[...]  Dedicated CC units really need to be either cheap and numerous (Ork Sluggas) or hard hitting and durable (Thunderwolf Cavalry).

 

Most of all, fast. Sluggas have a massive footprint and the ability to re-roll one dice when charging on top of charging after running with WAAAGH! up. TWC move 12", are not slowed by terrain and have fleet. Unfortunately the EP have none of those qualities.

 

I did a bit of math-hammering and found out that 10 naked Vanguard do a better job at shooting anything with a T value (Doctrines included) than 10 EP with Fists. That is 100pts outshooting 180pts...

[ronin_cse]

[...] Dedicated CC units really need to be either cheap and numerous (Ork Sluggas) or hard hitting and durable (Thunderwolf Cavalry).

Most of all, fast. Sluggas have a massive footprint and the ability to re-roll one dice when charging on top of charging after running with WAAAGH! up. TWC move 12", are not slowed by terrain and have fleet. Unfortunately the EP have none of those qualities.

I did a bit of math-hammering and found out that 10 naked Vanguard do a better job at shooting anything with a T value (Doctrines included) than 10 EP with Fists. That is 100pts outshooting 180pts...

Well at this point it's basically beating a dead horse. Electro Priests really aren't that good...take them if you like them for whatever reason (which I will) but if you are looking for the most effective units looks elsewhere, and if you are looking for average units you should probably look elsewhere too .

Hey at least they're better than Warptalons right!?

Edit: actually now I'm curious...let's see a 5 man squad of warp talons with mark of khorne vs 10 staff electro priests (180 pts each unit). I'll assume the talons get the charge:

Talons attack first due to being I4 and get 4 attacks on the charge (+1 charge, +1 2 CCs, +1 rage). So 20 attacks (yes the champion has the same stats) hitting on 4s, wounding on 4s with shred. They should kill 4 priests after the 5++ and the FnP.

Priests hit back with 12 attacks, hitting on 4s and wounding on 3s killing 1.778 after saves. They would kill 2.667 if you used the re-roll CC hits Canticle, and they would kill 1.944 if they got +1 or more str from that Canticle instead. I'm just going to assume they killed 2.

Second round the Talons kill 1.975 priests, so 2 more. Hitting back the priests get 8 attacks and kill 0.889 so 1 talon.

Third round the Talons kill 0.79 so one more priest leaving 3. The priests kill 0.667 so I'll still be optimistic and say they kill another. 1 talon left.

4th round the talon only kills 0.395 priests so less than a 50% chance of killing one. At this point the priests will most likely win as they have 3 wounds left to the single talon. So the priests will win with 3 or 2 left on average depending on how lucky the last talon rolls. Actually chances are the priests will have at least 1 or 2 more on top of that is it's likely they would benefit from a canticle or two during those 4 rounds, the extra hit one would really help. The Talons also don't have grenades so if the priests were in terrain that would help as well. Oh I forgot the hammer of wrath hits for the first round, I don't want to re-do everything so we'll just assume they used their jump packs in the movement phase ;).

Kind of want to do this for a few other elite assault units now, maybe Incubi or Striking Scorpions next?

[Frater Cornelius]

Haha indeed. I mean, they have a place in pure Cult lists or basically any Cult + X combination that does not include Skitarii. They may be inefficient, but they are still situationally useful. They are also great models and good fluff. There is also a good chance that a future update will make them a bit better. So yeah, they may be sub-optimal but definitely not codex corpses ;)

[ronin_cse]

I'm bored and I'm at work...so gonna do a little more light math-hammer . This is more for myself as I still can't decide between Corpuscarii or Fulgarite but figured I may as well share. So 10 model unit vs a 10 man MEQ unit assuming the priests get the charge off at full str and assuming a full round of shooting for the entire Corpuscarii unit, I'm not going to bother with Canticles. Actually I'll do TEQ and vs a couple other things.

Corpuscarii shooting unsaved wounds (assuming 21 hits from rolling 3 6s):

GEQ: 9.333

XenoEQ (T3 4+): 7

MEQ: 3.5

TEQ: 1.75

CarnifexEQ: 1.167

BikeEQ (T5 3+): 2.333

AV 9 (I THINK this exists somewhere): 7

AV 10: 3.5

Corpuscarii CC unsaved wounds, (hitting on 4s)/(hitting on 3s):

GEQ: 9.333/11.556

XEQ: 7/8.667

MEQ: 3.5/4.333

TEQ: 1.75/2.167

CEQ: 1.167/1.444

BEQ: 2.333/2.889

AV 9: -/8.667

AV 10: -/4.333

Corpuscarii total unsaved wounds, assuming hitting on 4s in CC since that's generally what they will be hitting on , basically just double:

GEQ: 18.666

XEQ: 14

MEQ: 7

TEQ: 3.5

CEQ: 2.334

BEQ: 4.666

AV 9: 15.667

AV 10: 7.833

And Fulgarites, obviously only CC wounds (4s[iDs]/3s[iDs]):

GEQ: 12.5[2]/16.667[3]

XEQ: 12.5[2]/16.667[3]

MEQ: 3.333[1-2]/4.444[2]

TEQ: 1.667[1-2]/2.222[2]

CEQ: 1.667[1]/2.222[1]

BEQ: 2.5[1]/3.333[1-2]

WraithEQ (T8 3+): 0.833[2.5]/1.111[3.333]

AV 9: 10

AV 10: 6.667

AV 11: 3.333

So the Corpuscariis are better in almost every case if they are all in range to shoot, which if you will assaulting the next turn is very likely. Of course they are more likely to fail their charge in that case since they will kill a decent amount of what they shoot at and thus are more likely to get destroyed in the next shooting phase, although if that is a major concern you could just not shoot with them. I like the Corpuscarii better if they don't wipe out their target in the first turn as well since they generate extra hits, if the Fulgarites don't their killing power is reduced by quite a bit. The only time the Fulgarites are better is against things the Corpuscarii are too weak to hurt, although you can mitigate this for a turn with proper Canticle use. Having ID is of course nice against multiwound models, but the chances of the ID wound not getting saved are too low to count on except against things you're only wounding on a 6 against anyways, which are kind of rare. Getting the 3++ after killing a unit would be great, but with how slow they are and the reduced killing power vs the Corpuscarii I don't see it happening that much. Their best option is going after a vehicle and then going after other units, but again this probably won't happen often. On that note I am impressed with their average vehicle killing power. Since many vehicles are AV10 on the rear either version should be able to kill on in assault. One advantage the fulgarites have is that with the Canticles they could even threaten a land raider! Against an Imperial Knight with the 3+ str canticle the Fulgarites should do 5 hp on average as well which isn't too bad either, the Corpuscarii only do 3.5.

Obviously this was also in a vacuum where the priests always have 10 models to hit back with. In most cases that won't be the case thanks to them being I3. Overall though they aren't terrible. Against many targets they will do quite well. The Fulgarites are less killy but are a bit more durable thanks to being WS4 and have the potential to be a lot more durable. Against most units the Corpuscarii probably won't wipe them out in a turn, which is actually better as it saves them from getting killed in the following shooting phase. Killing 7 marines or 3-4 terminators in a turn is exactly where I would want them to be. I just wish they could be I4 at least so they would actually get a chance to kill that many .

Hopefully this helps someone, I apologize in advance for any mistakes in the math that I almost certainly made

[MaulerUK]

Aye, these guys aren't cheap because they have the potential to be immense.  Take ten Corpus Priests, drop the Dominus in with them for a bit of extra support and damage-soak, use the Shrouded canticle the turn before they're in range to assist in getting 3/4+ cover saves, then on their aggro turn use the Electromancer canticle for +2 I10 S4 AP- attacks per model and then you get:

 

20 twin-linked S4 AP- shots generating on average another six hits.  (Roughly 3 dead MEq)

Charge.

10 S4 AP- HOW hits @ I10.

22 S4 AP- Electromancer hits (not attacks, hits, nice) @ I10.

Take digs from initial survivors.

30 S4 AP- Corpus melee attacks generating another 10 hits, presuming no Priests died or vs low init targets like Necrons).

5 S6 AP2 power axe attacks from the Dominus @ I2.

 

That's, like, "a mob o' Boyz" level dice-storm...and gives a massive, almost guaranteed chance to wipe out a 5-man MEq before you even get past the I10 step - 40 S4 hits vs MEq = 20 wounds = 7 failed saves.  The following 30 attacks, if needed, should kill over 3 MEqs, that's a full squad mulched before the Dominus even gets to limber up.  Even vs Hammer TEq 40 I10 S4 hits kill 3.33 Terminators and the following 25 hits kill off another two and the Dominus should kill off another one on average.  That's not factoring in the Dominus' Macrostubber or Blaster in the shooting either.  IMO, this is a nasty, nasty unit despite the initial reception.

[Frater Cornelius]

Sounds pretty legit. I may try it out at some point actually. Just for the lulz with proxed models.

[Vel'Cona]

I won't be . . . but I still want to hear the tales of triumph folks can pull with these!

[PraetorDragoon]

@Mauler, you only get 1 HOW attack per model, so 10 HOW attacks in total :)

 

I do like these numbers. Still a shame that the Fulgurites are lacking. Maybe I should run those as a mop-up unit.

[MaulerUK]

Thanks, I'm not sure where the 20 HOW came from!  lol  Still very ouchie though!

[PraetorDragoon]

Must be the twenty mood or something :D

[Scurvydog]

I still think these guys will be dangerous in large cult armies with max canticle buffs. The 3 str4 I10 hits per model canticle will allow them to clean out hordes and the +3 str will make them dangerous against big things. Their mobility is the largest issue, but I'd love to see their formation pull of an assault, with shooting guys pumping out 3 shots per model, then the staff guys assault, activating the 3 hit canticle per model and hitting with 3 str 5 attacks each, rerolling to wound.

 

Most of the time they will be dead before pullimg it of though :-/

[pompeyladbfp]

i do think if the enemy are shooting these guys then you are "dipping in" as there not shouting your skitarii etc

maybe a normal detachment of cult mechanicus uisng CAD with two-three obj secured units of these, the skitarri detachment and say the destroyer maniple formation for 3 units of bs4 kataphrons and the big robots could be a good army. this would give you 8 strong for canticles, skitarii for proper fighting, the kataphrons/robots for killing elite must die units and a couple of shooty min sized priest units for guaranteed obj holding and ok surviveability against certain shooting.

 

 

i think some playtesting could work

 

Just realized there not troops... Well in the words of Clay... Shhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttt

[mmimzie]

i do think if the enemy are shooting these guys then you are "dipping in" as there not shouting your skitarii etc

maybe a normal detachment of cult mechanicus uisng CAD with two-three obj secured units of these, the skitarri detachment and say the  destroyer maniple formation for 3 units of bs4 kataphrons and the big robots could be a good army. this would give you 8 strong for canticles, skitarii for proper fighting, the kataphrons/robots for killing elite must die units and a couple of shooty min sized priest units for guaranteed obj holding and ok surviveability against certain shooting.

 

 

i think some playtesting could work

 electro priest are elites and thus don't confer objective secured?/?

 

Elimination maniple only gives BS if your shoot and wound the unit with your kastelans... which sucks becuase phospher kastelans will have pretty much obliterated the unit. Though woudl be a really good fomration against a really big thunderwolf cav if it doesn't end up invisible or osmething.... i guess???

[DeStinyFiSh]

 

i do think if the enemy are shooting these guys then you are "dipping in" as there not shouting your skitarii etc

maybe a normal detachment of cult mechanicus uisng CAD with two-three obj secured units of these, the skitarri detachment and say the  destroyer maniple formation for 3 units of bs4 kataphrons and the big robots could be a good army. this would give you 8 strong for canticles, skitarii for proper fighting, the kataphrons/robots for killing elite must die units and a couple of shooty min sized priest units for guaranteed obj holding and ok surviveability against certain shooting.

 

 

i think some playtesting could work

 electro priest are elites and thus don't confer objective secured?/?

 

Elimination maniple only gives BS if your shoot and wound the unit with your kastelans... which sucks becuase phospher kastelans will have pretty much obliterated the unit. Though woudl be a really good fomration against a really big thunderwolf cav if it doesn't end up invisible or osmething.... i guess???

 

Why do Kastelans kill everything ? 2 Bots have 12 shots BS 3; 6 from the weapon on the back (3 hits); 6 from the twin linked (4,5 hits). That is 7,5 hits, 1-2 not wounding, maybe cover or ++ to save these wounds. It is absolutely not unlikely to get only a hand full of models or less removed.

[MaulerUK]

 

 

i do think if the enemy are shooting these guys then you are "dipping in" as there not shouting your skitarii etc

maybe a normal detachment of cult mechanicus uisng CAD with two-three obj secured units of these, the skitarri detachment and say the  destroyer maniple formation for 3 units of bs4 kataphrons and the big robots could be a good army. this would give you 8 strong for canticles, skitarii for proper fighting, the kataphrons/robots for killing elite must die units and a couple of shooty min sized priest units for guaranteed obj holding and ok surviveability against certain shooting.

 

 

i think some playtesting could work

 electro priest are elites and thus don't confer objective secured?/?

 

Elimination maniple only gives BS if your shoot and wound the unit with your kastelans... which sucks becuase phospher kastelans will have pretty much obliterated the unit. Though woudl be a really good fomration against a really big thunderwolf cav if it doesn't end up invisible or osmething.... i guess???

 

Why do Kastelans kill everything ? 2 Bots have 12 shots BS 3; 6 from the weapon on the back (3 hits); 6 from the twin linked (4,5 hits). That is 7,5 hits, 1-2 not wounding, maybe cover or ++ to save these wounds. It is absolutely not unlikely to get only a hand full of models or less removed.

 

 

Also, not all of the Kasts may have three phosphor blasters.  I play against Nurgle daemons a fair bit, their deep striking and resilience doesn't always mean that things are handled at range: I'd give one bot TL phosphor blasters & flamer & the other fists and a blaster.  Adding more Kasts mixes that up a lot but I feel that gives some redundancy against losses, a still decent amount of ranged dakka, a flamer for harassing models with +3 to cover saves (and assault defence) and a pair of fists for an extra attack and S10 vs an Iron-Armed Unclean One...

[PraetorDragoon]

What do you suppose is the best way to handle a 10-man fulgurite unit? I know they are the weakest of the bunch, but I quite like them.